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Thread: I blame Joe [As requested by Shuckle]

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    Default I blame Joe [As requested by Shuckle]

    Okay... at the insistence of Shuckle, I'll be posting my last-ever Battle Tower streak ever. After playing this team to the point of surpassing the 500 win mark, I lost interest and gave up. Still, Shucks still holds the current Serebii record at 519, so I never got to beat him. Shame really, I would've enjoyed regaining my #1 slot, but it doesn't matter now. I don't have any motivation to keep going, but I'm glad that I made it this far. Too busy writing up stuff and laddering for Smogon nowadays.

    Written up with a mix of past and present tense... my inner English Major is screaming at me right now...

    No picture or anything, but anyone who's seen my previous teams will know that I don't really need one.


    Platnium Battle Tower Singles Streak: 504



    Uxie @ Choice Scarf ** (GameChangr)
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 244 Hp / 4 Def / 108 SpD / 148 Spe
    IVs: 31 / 19 / 31 / 8 / 31 / 31
    Ability: Levitate
    - Trick
    - Yawn
    - Memento
    - Thunder Wave

    Uxie is unique among TrickScarfers for possesing all of Memento, Thunder Wave, and Yawn. The EV spread lets Uxie take Special moves a lot easier, since they're more dangerous to this team than Physical ones. The Speed EVs allow Uxie to Trick the Scarf to +Natured Base 130s, while still outspeeding Neutral Base 80's without it. Uxie is completely crucial to this strategy.



    Heatran @ Wide Lens ** (Sunburn)
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 Hp / 92 Def / 164 SpD
    IVs: 31 / 9 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    Ability: Flash Fire
    - Torment
    - Scary Face
    - Stealth Rock
    - Flamethrower

    This Heatran is absolutely crucial to my strategy. Basically, once something has been Tricked a Scarf, Heatran can come in and use Scary Face if it isn't locked into a move effective against it, slowing it down so Uxie can outspeed. It then uses Torment, allowing Uxie an easy switch on the Struggle. SR is great for assuring KO's, Salamence needs all the help it can get without Outrage providing so much extra firepower. Flamethrower is just there as filler, but it's perfect for weakening troublesome Pokemon and ensures that I'm not completely helpless if Salamence faints.



    Salamence @ Leftovers ** (Mencemeat)
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    Ability: Imtimidate
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute

    This team was originally created by someone else using Garchomp, but IMO Salamence does his job better for a few reasons; indeed, my streak finished some fifteen wins higher than FastHippo's. First, he resists all of Heatran's weaknesses, meaning that if Heatran can't set up on something, he usually can. Garchomp can't really do this, since he takes neutral damage from all three types Heatran is weak to, especially Water. Second, his Intimidate ability helps to weaken the powerful physical attacks Garchomp has trouble with, like Double-Edge and Brave Bird. Lastly, although he takes longer to set up, Salamence doesn't have to worry about losing if the AI comes in swinging with a Latias and a Starmie in second and third position in a team, since Dragon Dance boosts his speed as well. I chose Dragon Claw because a.) Mence really appreciates the Leftovers recovery with a team like this, and b.) because Stealth Rock and Heatran's Flamethrower ease the need to 2HKO everything in the tower at +6.

    Basic Overall Strategy:

    Uxie Tricks on turn 1; I switch to Heatran for damaging moves that aren't water, fighting, or ground. Ideally, Heatran uses Scary Face until the Pokemon is slower than Uxie. It then uses Stealth Rock and Torment, making every other move into Struggle. Uxie switches into the first Struggle, taking minimal damage. This allows Uxie to Yawn and then usually to Memento. This keeps the pokemon from damaging itself again and gets Salamence in immediately without getting damaged. With the Pokemon locked into a move, asleep, slowed down, and weakened by Memento, Salamence has its work cut out for it and sets up with ease before thrashing the team.

    9 times out of 10, this is what happened, more or less. I tried to preserve Uxie and Heatran for later in case there was any danger to Salamence, but if I benefitted more from just sacrificing one, I would.

    Problems:

    Sticky Hold Leads: Muk, Swalot, and Gastrodon are the the only three users of Sticky Hold, meaning I can't trick to them. Thankfully, only Gastrodon is of any danger to this team, and even then it's only the one with Ice Beam that matters.

    OHKO moves: Usually, this is the bane of every TrickScarf team's existence. Thanks to Uxie's Yawn, this is less so now.

    Crithax: Heatran hates crits, particularly from neutral moves like Thunderbolt. Crithax managed to KO him more than thirty times during the course of this whole streak, but thanks to Uxie's Yawn and Thunder Wave I was able to keep it together.

    Mence's Setup Time Constraints: Much as I loved Mence and his Dragon Dance, he takes twice as long to set up as Garchomp does, and thus increases to possibilities for hax to strike. Early on, this was nothing more than a nuisance, but by the time I stopped, it had become a full-blown problem.


    Unlike all my other BT teams, this one doesn't have a warstory to accompany it. Why? Simple, it never lost, I just stopped caring. It was fun while it lasted, but by the time it was over I was almost relieved. The stress of taking a streak this high finally got to me, and I was sick of it. The higher reaches of the Battle Tower are an arena for the most insane of insane people, and I have no desire to stay there.

    Fire away guys. I'm looking forward to this.™

    -Eon Out
    "Archer, you've decided? You'll really kill him, no matter what?"
    "Go on, escape from here. I'm not going to allow you to cry anymore."



  2. #2
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    And deliver you have!

    Good shit dude, I'm beyond rusty at DPPt so I'm not gonna try to
    improve much on something that already works.

    Uxie can deal with Sticky Hold if you can drop a slot for Skill Swap,
    but that would change the strategy up a bit. Yawn is probably what
    would have to go, but then you can paralyze things with Volt Absorb
    and Limber. Is Skill Swap a better choice? Probably not, but it's really
    the only thing that I can see that could be somewhat helpful.

    Mence needs more Fire Fang

    From one English major to another, you done did a good job.

    PC+1 mod style

    ^Click it!^

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    I'm assuming Uxie switches in on Struggle to use Yawn+Memento? Otherwise, it goes against the whole TrickScarf idea.

    Looks great, no complaints here.

    Congrats on the nice streak, best I've gotten with TrickScarf is 141 (Latias/Suicune/Scizor)
    Laurence | Rock
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    Are you reckoning this can be improved, as Shuckle said "good ****", no amazing **** even! I bet you can easily top 504
    I drift in and out. I'm more into the glitchy side of things, hate nearly everything post-HGSS.
    I'll probably forget what I offer on trade pages. If I do, just message me on Tumblr as I'm always on there.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
    Good shit dude, I'm beyond rusty at DPPt so I'm not gonna try to
    improve much on something that already works.
    So am I, lol. That's another reason why I'm not going back to it.

    Uxie can deal with Sticky Hold if you can drop a slot for Skill Swap,
    but that would change the strategy up a bit. Yawn is probably what
    would have to go, but then you can paralyze things with Volt Absorb
    and Limber. Is Skill Swap a better choice? Probably not, but it's really
    the only thing that I can see that could be somewhat helpful.
    Tbh, I tried Skill Swap for Insomnia/Vital Spirit Pokes, but it was pretty useless for the most part. Yawn is a major crux of the team; I can't really afford to change it. Besides, Gastrodon never uses Ice Beam on Uxie, so it's not a huge issue.

    Mence needs more Fire Fang
    It's moar.

    From one English major to another, you done did a good job.
    Thank you, kind sir.

    PC+1 mod style
    Lol, Joe. You just love your PC+1 when it comes to my teams don't you? I swear this is becoming an inside joke between us now xD

    Quote Originally Posted by foxyman1167 View Post
    I'm assuming Uxie switches in on Struggle to use Yawn+Memento? Otherwise, it goes against the whole TrickScarf idea.
    Yeah, it usually does, as I said. Yawn is the only thing that makes this idea even remotely viable.

    Looks great, no complaints here.
    Cool.

    Congrats on the nice streak, best I've gotten with TrickScarf is 141 (Latias/Suicune/Scizor)
    Pretty impressive, actually. Anything above 100 is commendable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry. T. View Post
    Are you reckoning this can be improved, as Shuckle said "good ****", no amazing **** even! I bet you can easily top 504
    I could, since the streak is technically still "going", but I don't want to. I'm out of practice, tired of having to juggle so many variables in my head at once, and a college student. I don't have that kind of time anymore. This team wasn't exactly created yesterday, I'd been playing it since September of 2010 before stopping around March 2011. Frankly, I've had enough of the BT to last a lifetime.
    "Archer, you've decided? You'll really kill him, no matter what?"
    "Go on, escape from here. I'm not going to allow you to cry anymore."



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    Quote Originally Posted by foxyman1167 View Post
    I'm assuming Uxie switches in on Struggle to use Yawn+Memento? Otherwise, it goes against the whole TrickScarf idea.
    he mentioned that here:
    Uxie Tricks on turn 1; I switch to Heatran for damaging moves that aren't water, fighting, or ground. Ideally, Heatran uses Scary Face until the Pokemon is slower than Uxie. It then uses Stealth Rock and Torment, making every other move into Struggle. Uxie switches into the first Struggle, taking minimal damage. This allows Uxie to Yawn and then usually to Memento. This keeps the pokemon from damaging itself again and gets Salamence in immediately without getting damaged. With the Pokemon locked into a move, asleep, slowed down, and weakened by Memento, Salamence has its work cut out for it and sets up with ease before thrashing the team.

    What does happen when it's water/fighting type moves? salamance comes out immediately?
    Obvious for ground Uxie can thunder wave or yawn then switch to salamence or salamence is free to setup anyway. Although this means no SR.
    But how does lets say a starmie deciding to use hydro pump work out against your team?


    Also wondering what could possibly be suggested when there's 500 wins in a row though :P

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    What does happen when it's water/fighting type moves? salamance comes out immediately?
    But how does lets say a starmie deciding to use hydro pump work out against your team?
    Thankfully, most opponents don't use Water-type moves against Uxie because they will have a move that is more effective against it. The Battle Tower AI will usually go for the most powerful move against the opponent. This is also why Fighting-type moves are not a concern, because Uxie resists them.

    As for your hypothetical situation, Yawn is the best option I would have, then I would switch to Salamence to take the second Hydro Pump. Starmie would fall asleep, and Salamence would sub. With as few as two Dragon Dances, Salamence is powerful enough to rip through most teams anyway.

    ...actually, now that I think about it in-depth, I don't believe Starmie can 2HKO my Uxie with Hydro Pump because the only Starmie with Hydro Pump in the Tower carries a Wide Lens and has a Timid nature. That would make my job almost easy, since I'd be able to get off Memento after Tricking the Scarf.

    Anyway, there are several ways to deal with situations like this, but like I said earlier, they're fairly rare.

    Obvious for ground Uxie can thunder wave or yawn then switch to salamence or salamence is free to setup anyway. Although this means no SR.
    No, you cannot T-Wave Ground-types. They're Ground-types, and as such are immune to Electric-type moves like Thunder Wave. Ground-type moves will not be used against Uxie because of Levitate(really the only immunity the AI fails to understand is that Ghost-types can't be hurt by Explosion or Selfdestruct...).

    Also wondering what could possibly be suggested when there's 500 wins in a row though :P
    How about the fact that I've only got the second-highest streak on Serebii while on Smogon I would rank at #6 if the thread was to be updated? I don't take kindly to accusations of cheating. I earn all my victories.

    ...althought if you're suggesting that the BT is easy instead, you need a reality check.
    "Archer, you've decided? You'll really kill him, no matter what?"
    "Go on, escape from here. I'm not going to allow you to cry anymore."



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    I'm not sure how crucial the wide lens is on Heatran, but something sp. attack boosting would help in hurting other mon more. I'm not sure how much you do actually use flamethrower though, so this thought could be useless as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Master View Post
    Explanation of what happens when water move used.
    I was just interested, seeing i couldn't quite work out if you came across something like:
    Starmie, followed by something not 1HKO'd by your dragon dance'd salamance which would then attack and possibly deal substantial damage to you with possible crithax. This is very hypothetical still, but after 500 battles, did you come against this sort of thing?
    Thanks for explanation though, helps me think of possible BT teams

    No, you cannot T-Wave Ground-types. They're Ground-types, and as such are immune to Electric-type moves like Thunder Wave. Ground-type moves will not be used against Uxie because of Levitate(really the only immunity the AI fails to understand is that Ghost-types can't be hurt by Explosion or Selfdestruct...).
    I was talking about move types, not types of pokemon. I didn't realise that BT trainers will recognise Uxie's levitate though. So this was helpful



    How about the fact that I've only got the second-highest streak on Serebii while on Smogon I would rank at #6 if the thread was to be updated? I don't take kindly to accusations of cheating. I earn all my victories.

    ...althought if you're suggesting that the BT is easy instead, you need a reality check.
    You totally misunderstood me here, I am sorry for not saying it well, as it has caused offense.
    500 seems utterly impossible to me (i'm at 35 wins in row), but i 100% fully believe you with this team have done it legitimately.
    So i simply meant "what is there to suggest?" the team is perfect.


    Although i will make a suggestion though:
    Why are you using speed EV's on salamence? surely with dragon dance which you "should" 100% of the time be able to get off at least 1-2 whilst they are attacking with struggle, woudn't this make you faster than everything else without those EV's?
    Possibly the same for attack EV's, as +400% damage is ridiculous alone, do you need to be buffing attack even more?
    Although, would 252 HP or Def or SpD EV's improve it more than attack/speed EV's?


    Sorry again for any offense caused, it was certainly not meant in that way.
    Last edited by Bigheaded; 15th December 2011 at 11:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldfan
    I'm not sure how crucial the wide lens is on Heatran, but something sp. attack boosting would help in hurting other mon more. I'm not sure how much you do actually use flamethrower though, so this thought could be useless as well.
    The Wide Lens is for Scary Face. 85% accuracy normally isn't that bad, but in the Battle Tower? Psh, good luck with that. I rarely use Flamethrower, usually only on things like Metagross or Skarmory that Salamence has trouble KOing without more boosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigheaded
    Starmie, followed by something not 1HKO'd by your dragon dance'd salamance which would then attack and possibly deal substantial damage to you with possible crithax. This is very hypothetical still, but after 500 battles, did you come against this sort of thing?
    The only Pokes Salamence cannot 2HKO after two Dragon Dances are Skarmory and Bronzong iirc. So no, I have not encountered this scenario on this streak. I've had similar things happen before with other teams, but not on this one. It is possible, but what you have to understand is that the AI shuffles through around 900 Pokemon, all of which can go into different combinations. Cba to calculate the odds of those two Pokemon showing up are, but they're likely infinitesimal.

    I was talking about move types, not types of pokemon. I didn't realise that BT trainers will recognise Uxie's levitate though. So this was helpful
    Battle Tower trainers will recognize weaknesses and resistences too; that is the main reasons TrickScarf teams are so successful (if you're decent, cracking 100 wins is almost easy with one of them).

    You totally misunderstood me here, I am sorry for not saying it well, as it has caused offense.
    500 seems utterly impossible to me (i'm at 35 wins in row), but i 100% fully believe you with this team have done it legitimately.
    So i simply meant "what is there to suggest?" the team is perfect.
    Ahh, ok. Sorry about that, I tend to get slightly defensive when my records are questioned. Thanks for the compliment.

    Although i will make a suggestion though:
    Why are you using speed EV's on salamence? surely with dragon dance which you "should" 100% of the time be able to get off at least 1-2 whilst they are attacking with struggle, woudn't this make you faster than everything else without those EV's?
    Possibly the same for attack EV's, as +400% damage is ridiculous alone, do you need to be buffing attack even more?
    Although, would 252 HP or Def or SpD EV's improve it more than attack/speed EV's?
    Good question. The reason max attack/max speed is run is because it allows Salamence to end the match faster. The slower/weaker the Pokemon is, the greater the chances of hax are. From my time using CM/ID Lucario, I can tell you right away that weaker attacks and less coverage are not good things. Also, the faster Salamence is, the faster it can get up a Sub to protect itself from Hax. Now, I'm sure you're wondering "why Adamant then?" With Adamant Mence has an easier time with more powerful Steel-types like Metagross.

    Trust me, the amount of calculation and effort that went into a team like this is too much for me to even expound on right now. I'm pretty sure there's no way improve it. The only reason I even posted it was for Joe.
    Last edited by Eon Master; 15th December 2011 at 7:40 PM.
    "Archer, you've decided? You'll really kill him, no matter what?"
    "Go on, escape from here. I'm not going to allow you to cry anymore."



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