Pokemon Conquest Discussion

[Hatsune Miku]

That's oversimplifying. The game is what it is - a merging of two properties in an attempt to create something new that hopefully gamers will enjoy. Asking "are they just trying to bring fans over from ______?" is missing the big picture.

is there any reason there merging the games other than bringing back an old game?what is the big picture?

[BCVM22]

is there any reason there merging the games other than bringing back an old game?

What's the reason for doing anything in an entertainment field? Ostensibly, to make money, and secondary to that, because a developer feels they have a concept that will translate well and entertain consumers. Is that not enough for you, or...?

what is the big picture?

You don't think you're overanalyzing here, trying to find an underlying conspirational reason where there really isn't one?

[Specter Vyle]

is there any reason there merging the games other than bringing back an old game?what is the big picture?

It's not a crime to try something different. It is only to persuade the public in trying their own product. If you don't like it, then that's your opinion. I like the game. That's my opinion. Nevertheless, it's simply business.

[Hatsune Miku]

It's not a crime to try something different. It is only to persuade the public in trying their own product. If you don't like it, then that's your opinion. I like the game. That's my opinion. Nevertheless, it's simply business.

im not saying i dont like it. im saying is there any particular reason they made the games merge?
also i feel like im arguing. imma stop for now:P

[Satoshi]

Skews demographic-wise, not gameplay-wise.

Ah, I see.

The same way it came into their heads to do Pokémon as pinball, or a racing game, or a typing game, or a dungeon-crawler, or a game where you draw circles furiously?

Those gameplay elements don't clash with the themes and messages that Pokemon has constantly tried to convey in the main games. The latter two tried to explore different aspects of the franchise that they never really bothered to do in the main games. The former two are Pokemon's equivalent to Mario's sports games and Link's Crossbow training.... 'nuff said.

I freely confess to not knowing beans about the source matter, but isn't the goal of Nobunaga's Ambition ultimately to amass allies, strengthen both them and yourselves and strive to conquest?

Bare bones.

In the Nobunaga's Ambition games, your job as a warlord is to gain the favor of the Imperial Court to further spread your influence, disrupt the relations between regional areas, raise ninja to guard your messengers, make treaties, order executions, send spies to gather intelligence, bribing enemies to defect to your side, arrange a marriage, and maintaining the economy in order to expand your army and civilization (playing too much with the tax rates may cause your peasants to rebel against you). You can also pass leadership onto someone else in your clan and nominate generals to serve as your lead vassals. During battle, you must keep up with multiple tasks such as fortifying the food supply for your army and give a main objective to your army.

Eh, it's really a pain to explain, but you get the picture. It's like a real war - it doesn't focus on individual battles, but a war. Battles can take years to complete as each turn is equivalent to one year and your daimyo eventually dies of old age. Not unlike actual war, losing is always a major repercussion.

Ultimately, the major theme in Nobunaga's Ambition may be similar to Pokemon if you choose to oversimplify the theme as you did (which is understandable since you are unfamiliar with the series). However, as a warlord, the main objective of the game is to gain conquest through any means possible, including deceit, as is the reality of war. And of course, the subject matter is way too different to be compared with Pokemon.

Pocket Monsters is a rather simple Japanese RPG and monster raiser hybrid that preaches about the friendship between humans and fictional creatures called Pokemon. Obviously as you may know, defeat in those games is rather forgivable and death does not play a major part in the franchise. Both games have some similar aspects such as raising allies to win a battle, but that is due to both containing some conventional role-playing elements. Other than the few role-playing elements that Nobunaga's Ambition series has, it has little similarities with Pokemon if one compares the stories themselves, gameplay notwithstanding.

With Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright, you can easily connect those two series through their use of mysteries and solving puzzles, despite Phoenix Wright mainly being a mystery visual novel and Professor Layton mainly being a game with a focus on puzzle gameplay.

This crossover will either be darker and edgier for Pokemon or lighter and softer for Nobunaga's Ambition depending on which direction they choose to go with it. If it's the former, it'll be an unusual deviation for Pokemon (which will be hilarious in hindsight if you're familiar with what its crossing over with), but it won't necessarily mean it will be terrible. If it's the latter, would it be a terrible Nobunaga's Ambition game despite being a fairly alright game on its own? We'll see. The crossover aspect of it would still highly be attractive to fans of both series despite it being a weird choice, regardless if it turns out to be bad or not.

My main argument is that it's merely just "unfitting", after all. I'm not expecting them to down down the gameplay of Nobunaga's Ambition, but there's still a chance. The subject matter will likely be lighthearted, and the executions and death will be replaced by something equally as lighthearted (they weren't exactly graphic in the first place, but the freely executing people in a Pokemon game will raise a ruckus). Which may bother me a little bit, seeing as I have a hard time imagining Nobunaga not ordering the Pokemon to be slaughtered.

Regardless of my slight disposition towards this, older Pokemon fans that can appreciate deep gameplay mechanics will no doubt love this crossover.

If that is the case - and again, feel free to correct me if I'm egregiously wrong - wouldn't the two games share a somewhat similar concept of finding strength in yourself and others and using that strength to strive to be the best until you find yourself atop the world?

While I do commend your ability to identify common abstract themes in these two different franchises, I was actually alluding to their more obvious major themes, which I mentioned above.

That would be no different from me suggesting a crossover between Pokemon and Shin Megami Tensei for the same reasons. The difference is that this crossover is going to happen and that it's a hit or miss situation trying to make it work out in a way that doesn't feel strange (and in order to do that, they will have to downplay the realistic mood of Nobunaga's Ambition quite a bit).

The PMDs were no different, conceptually. They too were just mixing Pokémon with a seemingly-unrelated concept. The only key difference is simply that Mystery Dungeon gameplay is a touch closer to Pokémon core titles than Nobunaga's Ambition appears to be.

There's actually a clear difference. While the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games bore the title of "Mystery Dungeon" and were developed by the same team as the Mystery Dungeon series, they technically weren't "crossovers" with previous Mystery Dungeon games. The only other method they had to signify the relation to Mystery Dungeon was the roguelike gameplay, which is actually its own genre in gaming and the gameplay found in the Mystery Dungeon series is actually pretty basic stuff for that genre. In essence, they could have marketed a Pokemon game with the same roguelike gameplay without even linking it to Mystery Dungeon. Even as they are now, they are still essentially just Pokemon games with roguelike gameplay. I recall one user on this thread mentioning that he had no idea it was a crossover until it was mentioned here. That's how much roguelikes are able to blend in with any fantasy setting.

With Pokemon x Nobunaga's Ambition, it's an actual crossover with the series containing historical figures and characters from those games.

Okay, and these are the people who honestly aren't to be worried about. We can agree that fans are, on rare occasion, complete morons, right? If one individual is that again any sort of mix-up involving his/her favorite property, then they're probably against this mix-up game more on a basis of simply hating anything new and weird, more so than they're against this game on a basis of anything having to do with this game's merits or lack thereof, no?

True.

Not to discredit you, but by your own admission this is anecdotal, and besides that, what they don't know, they'll learn, won't they?

Also true.

But despite how my example was just a few fans out of the whole fandom, my point still stands regarding Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of Three Kingdoms being rather unknown titles to most due to having few translations, and in turn, few people are very familiar with their ganeplay. Unless they happen to be fans of the Civilization games, which I highly doubt for the majority of Pokemon fans seeing how big the home console market is in the western gaming community compared to other platforms such as arcades and home computers (though it's making a comeback, especially with the hardcore crowd).

im not saying i dont like it. im saying is there any particular reason they made the games merge?

The same reason for any other crossover game... Ever played Marvel vs Capcom? Super Smash Bros?

Heard of Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney? It's most similar to that in regards to an individual crossover. The companies just decided to work together on one game, crossing over two of their famous titles.

The purpose isn't to "bring back" Nobunaga's Ambition. The series has more than a dozen games and is still alive, but little are translated for countries outside of Japan.

[Hatsune Miku]

Ah, I see.



Those gameplay elements don't clash with the themes and messages that Pokemon has constantly tried to convey in the main games. The latter two tried to explore different aspects of the franchise that they never really bothered to do in the main games. The former two are Pokemon's equivalent to Mario's sports games and Link's Crossbow training.... 'nuff said.


Bare bones.

In the Nobunaga's Ambition games, your job as a warlord is to is gain the favor of the Imperial Court to further spread your influence, disrupt the relations between regional areas, raise ninja to guard your messengers, make treaties, send spies to gather intelligence, bribing enemies to defect to your side, arrange a marriage, and maintaining the economy in order to expand your army and civilization (playing too much with the tax rates may cause your peasants to rebel against you). You can also pass leadership onto someone else in your clan and nominate generals to serve as your lead vassals. During battle, you must keep up with multiple tasks such as fortifying the food supply for your army and give a main objective to your army.

Eh, it's really a pain to explain, but you get the picture. It's like a real war - it doesn't focus on individual battles, but a war. Battles can take years to complete as each turn is equivalent to one year and your daimyo eventually dies of old age. Not unlike actual war, losing is always a major repercussion.

Ultimately, the major theme in Nobunaga's Ambition may be similar to Pokemon if you choose to oversimplify the theme as you did (which is understandable since you are unfamiliar with the series). However, as a warlord, the main objective of the game is to gain conquest through any means possible, including deceit, as is the reality of war. And of course, the subject matter is way too different to be compared with Pokemon.

Pocket Monsters is a rather simple Japanese RPG and monster raiser hybrid that preaches about the friendship between humans and fictional creatures called Pokemon. Obviously as you may know, defeat in those games is rather forgivable and death does not play a major part in the franchise. Both games have some similar aspects such as raising allies to win a battle, but that is due to both containing some conventional role-playing elements. Other than the few role-playing elements that Nobunaga's Ambition series has, it has little similarities with Pokemon if one compares the stories themselves, gameplay notwithstanding.

With Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright, you can easily connect those two series through their use of mysteries and solving puzzles, despite Phoenix Wright mainly being a mystery visual novel and Professor Layton mainly being a game with a focus on puzzle gameplay.

This crossover will either be darker and edgier for Pokemon or lighter and softer for Nobunaga's Ambition depending on which direction they choose to go with it. If it's the former, it'll be an unusual deviation for Pokemon (which will be hilarious in hindsight if you're familiar with what its crossing over with), but it won't necessarily mean it will be terrible. If it's the latter, would it be a terrible Nobunaga's Ambition game despite being a fairly alright game on its own? We'll see. The crossover aspect of it would still highly be attractive to fans of both series despite it being a weird choice, regardless if it turns out to be bad or not.

My main argument is that it's merely just "unfitting", after all. I'm not expecting them to down down the gameplay of Nobunaga's Ambition, but there's still a chance. The subject matter will likely be lighthearted, and the executions and death will be replaced by something equally as lighthearted (they weren't exactly graphic in the first place, but the freely executing people in a Pokemon game will raise a ruckus). Which may bother me a little bit, seeing as I have a hard time imagining Nobunaga not ordering the Pokemon to be slaughtered.

Regardless of my slight disposition towards this, older Pokemon fans that can appreciate deep gameplay mechanics will no doubt love this crossover.


While I do commend your ability to identify common abstract themes in these two different franchises, I was actually alluding to their more obvious major themes, which I mentioned above.

That would be no different from me suggesting a crossover between Pokemon and Shin Megami Tensei for the same reasons. The difference is that this crossover is going to happen and that it's a hit or miss situation trying to make it work out in a way that doesn't feel strange (and in order to do that, they will have to downplay the realistic mood of Nobunaga's Ambition quite a bit).

There's actually a clear difference. While the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games bore the title of "Mystery Dungeon" and were developed by the same team as the Mystery Dungeon series, they technically weren't "crossovers" with previous Mystery Dungeon games. The only other method they had to signify the relation to Mystery Dungeon was the roguelike gameplay, which is actually its own genre in gaming and the gameplay found in the Mystery Dungeon series is actually pretty basic stuff for that genre. In essence, they could have marketed a Pokemon game with the same roguelike gameplay without even linking it to Mystery Dungeon. Even as they are now, they are still essentially just Pokemon games with roguelike gameplay. I recall one user on this thread mentioning that he had no idea it was a crossover until it was mentioned here. That's how much roguelikes are able to blend in with any fantasy setting.

With Pokemon x Nobunaga's Ambition, it's an actual crossover with the series containing historical figures and characters from those games.

True.


Also true.

But despite how my example was just a few fans out of the whole fandom, my point still stands regarding Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of Three Kingdoms being rather unknown titles to most due to having few translations, and in turn, few people are very familiar with their ganeplay. Unless they happen to be fans of the Civilization games, which I highly doubt for the majority of Pokemon fans seeing how big the home console market is in the western gaming community compared to other platforms such as arcades and home computers (though it's making a comeback, especially with the hardcore crowd).


The same reason for any other crossover game... Ever played Marvel vs Capcom? Super Smash Bros?

Heard of Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney? It's most similar to that in regards to an individual crossover. The companies just decided to work together on one game, crossing over two of their famous titles.

The purpose isn't to "bring back" Nobunaga's Ambition. The series has more than a dozen games and is still alive, but little are translated for countries outside of Japan.

hmm i'be played it once. but i dont have it
hmm they had a crossover?

ok so they are bringing back captain falcon in SSBB like that? ok then i have all my questions answered

[Ememew]

But despite how my example was just a few fans out of the whole fandom, my point still stands regarding Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of Three Kingdoms being rather unknown titles to most due to having few translations, and in turn, few people are very familiar with their ganeplay. Unless they happen to be fans of the Civilization games, which I highly doubt for the majority of Pokemon fans seeing how big the home console market is in the western gaming community compared to other platforms such as arcades and home computers (though it's making a comeback, especially with the hardcore crowd).

Is it sad that I've actually played a Civilization game and thought "ooh, I wonder how you could work Pokemon into this?" Not that I actually thought of it as a serious thing at the time, it was just something that crossed my mind. Yeah, I'm a Poke-Nerd

[Pamizard]

This game doesn't look so bad but I really was looking forward to a 5th Gen PBR. I'm not planning on getting this game if it does come out internationally later on this year.

[Kariachi]

In the Nobunaga's Ambition games, your job as a warlord is to gain the favor of the Imperial Court to further spread your influence, disrupt the relations between regional areas, raise ninja to guard your messengers, make treaties, order executions, send spies to gather intelligence, bribing enemies to defect to your side, arrange a marriage, and maintaining the economy in order to expand your army and civilization (playing too much with the tax rates may cause your peasants to rebel against you). You can also pass leadership onto someone else in your clan and nominate generals to serve as your lead vassals. During battle, you must keep up with multiple tasks such as fortifying the food supply for your army and give a main objective to your army.

And they want me to do this all, with pokemon?

...

*_* I will pay all the money...

This crossover will either be darker and edgier for Pokemon or lighter and softer for Nobunaga's Ambition depending on which direction they choose to go with it. If it's the former, it'll be an unusual deviation for Pokemon (which will be hilarious in hindsight if you're familiar with what its crossing over with), but it won't necessarily mean it will be terrible. If it's the latter, would it be a terrible Nobunaga's Ambition game despite being a fairly alright game on its own? We'll see. The crossover aspect of it would still highly be attractive to fans of both series despite it being a weird choice, regardless if it turns out to be bad or not.

Or will they do both, elevating the dark themes for pokemon while still making it more light hearted than Nobunaga's Ambition tends to be? However it goes, I can't help but hope that they do justice to both. NA sounds like an awesome game, and it will add the sort of darker spin I keep seeing people ask for.

[Shneak]

This game doesn't look so bad but I really was looking forward to a 5th Gen PBR. I'm not planning on getting this game if it does come out internationally later on this year.

This game doesn't exactly mean that your 5th Gen PBR isn't coming, so you can still get your hopes up.

[ParaChomp]

The girl with the Jigglypuff, her face reminds me of the sex appeal character from that anime's face. Coincidence? I doubt it.

[BCVM22]

Coincidence?

Probably, yes.

[Oceanfur]

This game sounds fun as heck. I'm going to be really, really sad and upset if it doesn't come to the US. It looks so fun! I mean, there's a possibility that it might suck, but I'm up for trying anything, especially if it's related to Pokemon. And it looks REALLY fun, and I think it'll probably sell well, or at least not badly. Well, if it gets given a different name; I'm not sure how well it would sell under the title of "Nobunga's Ambition" in the US, where no one's ever heard of that.

[Satoshi]

And it looks REALLY fun, and I think it'll probably sell well, or at least not badly. Well, if it gets given a different name; I'm not sure how well it would sell under the title of "Nobunga's Ambition" in the US, where no one's ever heard of that.

You act as if Nobunaga's Ambition is a series that has never been released in America before. Changing the title would not make a difference whatsoever and will only serve to anger fans. Not to mention, Koei would not allow that. Capcom vs Tatsunoko sold relatively well, despite the fact that most of the heroes from Tatsunoko are unknown to most people in the United States.

Besides, gamers have heard of the name Nobunaga before, unless they're historically illiterate or my assumption that Sengoku Basara and Samurai Warriors are as popular as I believe they are.

[Crystal]

I need to say, Smash Bros is a crossover, but different to any other crossover of two totally different gaming companies.

Smash Bros is a crossover of characters that is ALL CAME FROM NINTENDO, so Nintendo as a gaming company has 100% full control and decision to decide how the game should be like, and how they should make it. Also, please understand, this game has more than 2 different game titles involved, so anyone should expected right from the start that the story is a cocktail. This is also true for almost all crossover games that has more than 2 different game titles.

However, crossover that has two total different gaming companies involved are quite rare, the only ones I knew are Marvel vs Capcom, Kingdoms Heart, Mario & Sonic Olympic series, and the current Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition.
These games all have several common points, which is they are all crossover of 2 (not 3 or more, but only 2), they are all collaboration of two different game companies, and most importantly, they seem to receive quite many critism before they release (not that I knew for Marvel vs Capcom, probably because that is a fighting game, so gamers won't mind very much. This also goes the same for Mario&Sonic Olympic series).

My point is, you just can't compare Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition with Smash Bros, since it is a crossover of total different category. If you really need a comparison, the best to compare is only Kingdoms Heart. However, I personally think KH is a good crossover, because Disney's cartoons and FF series are both fantasy themes, so they can make good crossover.
But...... I will not say that for this coming up Pokemon game. Pokemon and Nobunaga's Ambition has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in common, forcing these two title to make a crossover is just like mixing water with oil (or worse, with gasoline), they can't be mixed unless you add some extra catalyst.

Whatever the result, this is not anything I can analyse further. The gamers response at the releslase day will tell the truth.

-----------------------------------------

P.S. The official site of Pokemon+Nobunaga's Ambition had already renewed when I'm posting this post. Go and check the game system on how the game should play.
but....... after I saw it, I became less interested about this game.

[lolipiece]

So evolution is in this game?

Great. Now I can expect final forms of the Busho's Pokemon.

[Serebii]

Yep. The trailer showed that Motochika starts with an Oshawott

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyZ6ayup4O8

[kawaii serebii]

The new trailer's awesome! Sanada Yukimura and Data Masamune appears! 8DDD Yukimura is the one with the Pokabu in the trailer, so I assume Yukimura's partner is Pokabu. Also appearing is Tachibana Ginchiyo, the lady with short brown hair and silver armour. The one with Ralts is Kanetsugu Naoe. Also Aya is shown, the lady in white. And a cameo of Arceus =O

But damn, they revealed Yukimura already >w<

Seems like it supports multiplayer too, but it doesn't say how. Most likely wireless though

[NINTENDO-ONLY]

it is intresting that all the characters have a direct design from the toei games samurai and dynasty warrior games.

i love pokemon games and i love the toei titles but i am not sure if mixing them is gonna be a good idea. to win me over they are gonna have to be very creative with this title.

Don't you mean Koei?

[NINTENDO-ONLY]

By the way, this isn't the first time Koei has done a weird crossover-