My Weird EX Deck

[Lumos77]

EX Deck
Pokemon 18[/U]
4-2-4 Feraligatr
4 Kyruem
2 Kyogre EX
1 Cleffa
1 Kyruem EX
Trainers 31
3 Pokemon Communication/Heavy Ball
4 PONT
2 IQ
3 Eviolite
4 Junk Arm
2 Fisherman
4 Rare Candy
3 Collector
2 Switch
2 Energy Retrieval
2 Cheren
Energy 11
9 Water
2 Rescue

Basically, you spread with Kyruem as quick as possible, to start with. Then your opponent will KO Kyreum after two turns or so, and either you bring up a Kyruem EX or Groudon EX to finish off that attacker, or use Kyogre EX to take up to two prizes at once.
I have high hopes for this deck, but I really have no idea how it will fare against the current metagame.

Legal Deck
Pokemon 17
3-2-3 Feraligatr
4 Kyruem
1 Cleffa
1-1 SEL
1-1 DCL
Trainers 30
3 Pokemon Communication
4 PONT
2 IQ
3 Eviolite
3 Junk Arm
2 Fisherman
3 Rare Candy
3 Collector
3 Switch
2 Energy Retrieval
2 Cheren
Energy 13
8 Water
3 Rescue
2 Rainbow

[ven?]

hehehe, I know what i'm gonna do imma put a kyurem in my deck to counter u (take out 2 terrakion add 3 kyurem ex), don't play dce, and hail blizzard t2, mwhahahaha.

How does kyurem EX take 2 prize's w/o spread, I think you meant kyogre.

[Lumos77]

I think I said Kyogre...
Anyways, any actual changes?

[ven?]

Hmm, it's hard to say, based of of this format, I'd say your T/S/S line is everywhere, I can see why you chose the cards, but I don't see the movement, how they act together to make the fastest and most effeceint amount of play, at this point i could just say using new cards would suit you as this deck more or less need's them, so here's my T/S/S line suggestion


4 pokemon communication
4 pont
2 IQ
4 evolite
3 junk arm
2 fisherman
2 rare candy
4 dual ball
3 switch
2 cheren

Now cheren is to deal with trainer lock, you could substitute that with juniper to take out the trainer's but it depends on your style of play. Why 4 dual ball? it's quality over quantity, you could pont and get 3 dual ball, that's a full setup in one turn + additional cards a collector will leave out, "you need" the chance to get evolite and an energy when setup (you're t3 attack at best in this deck, feraligator only speeds you up mid game), thats why I have 4 N so I can get that every first turn I get, eff having the pokemon if they're not useful. 2 IQ is to increase the speed once fish boy is out, at this point I'd suggest the craziness of my deck and go 4 switch due to the redonculous level of retreat in your deck, and since I just use switch for juniper filling with energy to increase energy drawback you might want to try out a similar kind of strategy, everything else is a mirror with a few adjustment's to make things more fluid, since you are running 2 of each kind of attacker and sub attacker, your main goal is to move them around as fast as possible to get out what you need asap, for instance, you have kyurem, and another in your hand with a com, your of course going to want to go through your deck for a cleffa to get a better hand. And to note cleffa, it's better to have the hand the turn you play your cards instead of the turn afterwards, that will be made very apparent once these EX cards are released. Thats all I've got for suggestions right now.

[Lumos77]

I'm not sure I really have a problem with Trainer Lock. After a Glaciate, I can 1 hit Gothitelle with Kyruem EX and 2 hit Vileplume with Kyogre.
Also, don't you think Pokemon Center is worth it, so its harder for the opponent to take two prizes from an EX?
EDIT: Do you think I should add Empoleon when he comes out for Draw Power?

[Lumos77]

After looking at what has been released for Nex Destinies, I'm getting a sinking feeling that we wont get Kyogre and Groudon 'till May. *cries into hands uncontrollably*

[Lucario_X_Froslass]

You don't need Groudon in this deck. It's weak for spreading. Kyurem works very well already. Also, a fun idea would be to add in Tropical Tidal Waves if you get the chance to get some; they help versus Basic Pokemon decks that play Eviolite. (Worlds Promo: Flip a coin to discard all Trainers in play on (your opponent's side of?) the field.) Your Prism Energy would then become Waters. Pichu might be a good play because it gets your Feraligatrs ready and offers your opponent a chance to fill up his or her bench, which is good for you. I think you'd want Revives as well. They'd let your Kyurem keep coming if you need it to work. Professor Juniper, 4 Rare Candy, and Junk Arm work wonders to get Stage Two evolutions set up. Also, don't clutter your deck with unnecessary evolution lines: adding Empoleon will hurt you more than help.

~L_X_F

[Lumos77]

The reason Groudon is there is for a heavy attacker and a counter to Magnezone. I'm running three feraligatr and I don't need 4 rare candy. Also, juniper is an awful,card for me sice I dont want to discard. Pichu seems good, however, but I don't know exactly what to take out.

[Lucario_X_Froslass]

4 Rare Candy is for maximum consistency. You could play Energy Retriever in your deck if you want, which would work with your Junk Arm. Juniper really is a good card, and since you play only one evolution line and tons of Water energy with recovery and a way to get them all on the field, I don't see how Juniper will hurt you much.

Also, Groudon EX is not a counter for Magnezone. Kyurem and Feraligatr do a better job at beating it. The fourth Rare Candy will also come into play here:
A "counter" for a card needs a couple things, some of which are, but not required:
1) It needs to set up faster than the "countered" Pokemon or it needs to set up relatively easily (Bouffalant's Revenge is a good example, as it is a two card combo)
2) It needs to stay in play to deal with multiple threats (A prime example is Suicune and Entei Legend used in Reuniclus-type decks used to deal with Water-weak Pokemon and weak bench sitters)
3) There shouldn't be too many negative repercussions for actually adding the card to your deck or playing the card in a game (You can't really expect much if you tech in a Machamp from Stormfront into your SP deck, as it is hard to set up and is threatened by Psychic types)
Due to your inability to accelerate the energy attachments to Groudon due to Rain Dance's restriction, you can't expect it to be a counter to Magnezone because of the speed issue. Secondly, Magnezone is infamous for its ability to one-shot anything in the format. Even with Groudon's 180 HP, -20 Lightning resistance, and an Eviolite, it is easily checked by Magnezone's Lost Burn attack by spending five energy, assuming Groudon EX is in its peak condition. Not only that, but they draw two prizes for KOing your EX Pokemon, which means they are getting more for their money. Groudon EX is too weak to compete with Magnezone.
What you can do instead is use a combination of Kyurem and Feraligatr to spread 60 damage to everything and use Feraligatr's attack whenever you need to KO a Magnezone. Their Magnezones are easily beat by cards in your own deck, and neither have Lightning weakness, so you will be able to use them without worrying about other Electric types played in Magnezone decks, such as Zekrom or Thundurus.

~L_X_F

[Lumos77]

I'm still unsure about this deck, as it seems fairly slow, and won't be ablr to compete with those really fast decks like ZPST.
Added a tournament legal version of the deck.

[ven?]

to be honest I think if you we're to just run 3 kyurem 1 kyurem EX (which you can only run 4 kyurem by the by) and 2 kyogre thats alot of excessive spread damage added onto kyurem's already wide range, allows you to tko 2 bench tech's every 3 turns (130 or 110 w/o weakness). the base of kyu/gatr is slow, but once it get's going it's like a magnezone deck and does take down alot of deck's.

Edi: and thats why I said T2 kyurem EX.

[Lumos77]

Why should I run Kyruem EX, I thought about it for a bit, but Feraligatr's attack is superior after a Glaciate or two.

[ven?]

why kyurem EX, easy answer, the fact of running 1 does give the option of an additional attacker without having to lose to many prize's when it does go down, feraligatr is a good additional attacker but in term's of an actual play kyurem would deal more successive damage, it's first attack can disrupt alot of low energy deck's that run about 1 energy return card, and it's second attack takes down reshiboar nuke's like the basic emboar, where a regular kyurem cannot. The fact is this deck is purely a spread deck with a tech as the actual heavy hitter, given the fact that you actually play the feraligatr as an attacker is different, for instance (because these are the kinds of deck's I end up matching against, and deck's you could see in senior's).

chandelure with bisharp, with 1 catcher, 2 switch and a retreat thanks to dodrio bisharp does 130, given 3 chandelure on the bench and 3 switch (which does play junk arm) thats 160, auto tko to feraligatr, if they plan to take down a kyurem they'll do it in the same matter.

con's: low energy and 130 max hp, so put in plus power, catcher and tko anything in the deck.

vileplume, if you run against a person like myself who knows how to run vileplume at t2 setup (which is a feat), then you're shutdown automatically, no evolite, no rare candy, no communication, collector's will just slow you down and by the time you play feraligatr I just tech and beat sticked you to death, even if you managed to successfully setup spread, I just run 4 seeker and 3 dragon's with reuni, a.k.a shutdown, I could tech in a single cobalion and shutdown an entire kyurem deck even from a perfect setup of 2 feraligatr and 4 kyurem versus cobalion, vileplume, reuni, dragons and a few seeker.

con's: vileplume, even with status and trainer shutdown it has opening's, small one's but opening's none the less, kyurem EX can make those opening's effective, kyurem cannot.

reshiboar/reshiploshion: ploshion is possibly you're best outcome, it is a slower deck, and give's you more advantage, mainly because it's slower, boar if setup then 5/6 ratio it has will break you down asap, stall 2 turns and take the spread damage openly, then outrage, outrage, outrage.

con's: if they don't know how to use dragons you can get the advantage, but with kyurem, you can sweep the deck regardless, even get away with setting up a reuni and just swap the damage to a kyurem, or tech in a cofagrigus and just deal the damage right back at them, type advantage.

those are three deck's, keep that in mind, even if you're running a stage 2 tech as the heavy hitter there are a few weakness's, and remmeber what L X F said, you don't have to worry that much about weakness because you can always make a come back some how, but adding in something that can deal over 30 base damage for something thats a fast to play is a good idea.

[Lumos77]

Chandelure: They can't keep a constant barrage of that, and I have plenty of heavy hitters in this deck. I may yet add Kyruem, but I'm still on the fence.
Vileplume: Same as above, but teched in a Cryoganal, so I can Catcher Vileplume. Also, there is almost no chance of them getting the Reuniclus because they wouldn't risk the 1 hit KO.
Reshiphlosion: I'm really not worried about this deck, since I can revenge kill everything with Feraligatr after 1 Glaciate.

[ven?]

you can't catcher vilepllume, because catcher is a trainer, and vileplume locks trainer's, if you did in a torunament all I have to do is call a judge. you can't snipe with this deck, you have nothing thats snipe's and you can't ohko a reuni with a kyurem deck, infact all I have to do is set a dragon, switch, energy, outrage, dead kyurem.

reshiphlosion run's lanturn, which counter's you're tech with energy stack damage.

P.S. you wasted your turn bringing out vileplume, at which I have the option to tko cry, or switch out, every trainer lock deck runs at least 1 dce for this purpose, so vile doesn't get into the active slate.

Edit: I do play master's, and alot of master's games are about critical thinking, which means, how can I shutdown or take out my opponent's pokemon asap, these kinds of ideas give an edge to how things are played, to give different fundamentalizeation to how it's played, making good judgement on play's become's second nature, for instance, everyone who plays vileplume puts in dce to not just for dragons but for retreat for being switched out, you're not going to take bench space for a dodrio for play, no you're going to minimalize the amount of cards used for a single strategy to open you're deck to different strategy's, this give's you an edge in taking on different types of pokemon with a single type of pokemon but being able to become versatile. The best defense against a deck that lock's deck's is speed, for instance trainer lock, only shuts down tools, search and disruption cards for the most part, but on another noteruns a lowered amount of practical strategy, they have opening's in the active pokemon that give them a lowered amount of defense, take donphan for instance, runs issue to deck's that run water, but takes low amounts of damage against all other type's which gives it versatility. Knowing you're opponent's cards gives you the best edge as well, knowing how they're played in every circumstance is also a great advantage.

[Lumos77]

You win, I'm putting in the Kyruem EX, but I'm not sure about more than 1.
I'm still kinda frightened of Magnezone, which is currently dominating my format.

[Lumos77]

Adding SEL as a heavy hitter and a solution to Coballion.

[Lumos77]

Added DCL and took out 1-0-1 Feraligatr