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Thread: Wii U Discussion Thread

  1. #3576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    I don't understand your logic here at all... This is already the case. Pikmin wasn't out at launch because another game was being worked on beforehand, and its development didn't finish in time to allow for Pikmin to be released earlier. You said you understood development time, what you've just said illustrates to me that you clearly don't. Games take years not months. Pikmin 3 has been in development for a very long time.
    Again, this is all excuses. Excuses as I have said do not sell consoles or games in a competitive market. And this generation is shaping up to be the most brutally competitive generation in console gaming history. And yes, I get that games take years to make. It was never a question of how long games take to make.

    But here's the thing. Say you have a project in college that is due in a month. Say you turn the project in late. If you tell your Professor that 'Oh, it just takes a long time to do this kind of thing', do you really think your Professor is going to care? No. You're getting downgraded because it's late. If this doesn't sound like something a business does, it should. Because businesses do this all the time. They're called deadlines.

    The bottom line is, they should have had these games in production when they were developing the software, and had them ready to go at launch. If they did, they'd be making their next line of games, and they'd be making MORE money than they are now. Probably far more. But they didn't have them ready to go when they had a monopoly on the market for an entire year. THAT is why they dropped the ball.

    Do you honestly think that if Sony or MS had the market to themselves for a year, they would only make two or three games for their new console?
    Last edited by SBaby; 19th July 2013 at 2:42 AM.
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  2. #3577
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    Again, this is all excuses. Excuses as I have said do not sell consoles or games in a competitive market. And this generation is shaping up to be the most brutally competitive generation in console gaming history. And yes, I get that games take years to make. It was never a question of how long games take to make.
    But that's the point. Pikmin 3 has been in development since about 2008. At that point in time there's no way to tell when a new console is going to come out or when the game you're developing is going to come out.

    But here's the thing. Say you have a project in college that is due in a month. Say you turn the project in late. If you tell your Professor that 'Oh, it just takes a long time to do this kind of thing', do you really think your Professor is going to care? No. You're getting downgraded because it's late. If this doesn't sound like something a business does, it should. Because businesses do this all the time. They're called deadlines.
    That's a terrible analogy and if you think otherwise I've simply nothing to say.

    The bottom line is, they should have had these games in production when they were developing the software, and had them ready to go at launch. If they did, they'd be making their next line of games, and they'd be making MORE money than they are now. Probably far more. But they didn't have them ready to go when they had a monopoly on the market for an entire year. THAT is why they dropped the ball.
    I'm assuming you meant they should have had the games in production when they were developing the hardware, and they would have. Again, they would not be making any more money and I don't understand why you still think that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    Do you honestly think that if Sony or MS had the market to themselves for a year, they would only make two or three games for their new console?
    Microsoft may make one or two. Sony would have a little more since they've got quite a few first party studios.


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    1. Miyamoto's famous saying basically states that delaying is better that rushing it through the market.
    2. Other Nintendo systems already have had lag, but built momentum.
    3. Good games are already on the way, such as Pikmin 3. It's a meow, Mario!
    4. If, indeed, the Wii U has had sales difficulties, do you really believe it's one solid circumstance?

    Hoenn has disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    Since it's just on VC, I would imagine it's the same.
    Earthbound has a ton of legal problems with trademarks, copyrights etc., which is part of the reason why it took so long to get rereleased. Chances are they had to change some of the content.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirachi9 View Post
    Earthbound has a ton of legal problems with trademarks, copyrights etc., which is part of the reason why it took so long to get rereleased. Chances are they had to change some of the content.
    No, from what I heard, everything from the original was kept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirachi9 View Post
    Earthbound has a ton of legal problems with trademarks, copyrights etc., which is part of the reason why it took so long to get rereleased. Chances are they had to change some of the content.
    I really don't think they'd release it again without maintaining the original content. Besides which, had anything been changed or removed we certainly would have heard. The Mother fanbase may not be the largest but they're certainly outspoken.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirachi9 View Post
    Earthbound has a ton of legal problems with trademarks, copyrights etc., which is part of the reason why it took so long to get rereleased. Chances are they had to change some of the content.
    well its out now, so i would hope they'll (the fans of the series) go away and leave everyone else alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    But that's the point. Pikmin 3 has been in development since about 2008. At that point in time there's no way to tell when a new console is going to come out or when the game you're developing is going to come out.
    I guarantee they knew that there was going to be an 8th generation Nintendo console at that point, regardless of what Wikipedia says. And even if they didn't (something I seriously doubt), Mario and Zelda should have still been finished by the time the console launched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    That's a terrible analogy and if you think otherwise I've simply nothing to say.
    If you have to say this, then you really ARE naďve when it comes to the business world. Businesses do the exact same thing I outlines in the college project segment of my post. They're called deadlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    I'm assuming you meant they should have had the games in production when they were developing the hardware, and they would have. Again, they would not be making any more money and I don't understand why you still think that.
    If Mario 3D Land and Windwaker HD came out when the Wii U launched, then Nintendo would be working on new Mario and Zelda games now and be ready to release THOSE in the Fall, when the competition is going to be more fierce. They could have been working on the next mainstream Zelda game for all we know. How would they not be making more money than they are right now if they had more games for consumers to buy?
    Last edited by SBaby; 19th July 2013 at 7:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Politoed View Post
    1. Miyamoto's famous saying basically states that delaying is better that rushing it through the market.
    Sega neglected this with Sonic 2006 just for the Holiday season and look how that turned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Emperor View Post
    well its out now, so i would hope they'll (the fans of the series) go away and leave everyone else alone.
    Well that's a bit mean to say. I don't see how they bothered EVERYONE. They wanted a great game to be rereleased and unfortunately there were a lot of complications. Besides, there will probably be campaigns for Mother 1 and 3 now...although it'd be hard to come up with a better translation for Mother 3 than the fan translation from starmen


    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Sega neglected this with Sonic 2006 just for the Holiday season and look how that turned.
    Exactly. I don't get why the delays bother people to the extreme so much. There's so much to play! There's always something to do, especially if you play Pokémon haha

    I think it's understandable since this is Nintendo's first HD console. We have all the time in the world to enjoy these future games and play them over and over as years pass
    Last edited by TheFonz; 19th July 2013 at 6:45 AM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    I guarantee they knew that there was going to be an 8th generation Nintendo console at that point, regardless of what Wikipedia says. And even if they didn't (something I seriously doubt), Mario and Zelda should have still been finished by the time the console launched.
    Any ideas for a new home console at that point would have just been ideas at best. Making a functioning game for a console in which you don't know the technical capabilities of would be nigh impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    If you have to say this, then you really ARE naďve when it comes to the business world. Businesses do the exact same thing I outlines in the college project segment of my post. They're called deadlines.
    Sure, businesses do have deadlines, but unlike college in business you don't lose 10% of your profit for every day the game is late. Consumers aren't going to not buy a game just because it didn't come out when originally planned.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    If Mario 3D Land and Windwaker HD came out when the Wii U launched, then Nintendo would be working on new Mario and Zelda games now and be ready to release THOSE in the Fall, when the competition is going to be more fierce. They could have been working on the next mainstream Zelda game for all we know. How would they not be making more money than they are right now if they had more games for consumers to buy?
    Mario and Zelda games take more than a couple months of development.
    Last edited by Jirachi9; 19th July 2013 at 7:50 AM.
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    Consumers aren't going to not buy a game just because it didn't come out when originally planned.
    they may, however, avoid buying the console on which that game's released if it happens with enough games, which in large enough quantities results in less development being greenlit.

    it's why the vita in particular is going to be completely boned if sony can't carve out a PSP-esque niche right now. it's also why the wii u's best-case scenario is one in which the XB1 flops hilariously, because it's literally getting beat by the gamecube at this point.
    Last edited by John Madden; 19th July 2013 at 7:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirachi9 View Post
    Earthbound has a ton of legal problems with trademarks, copyrights etc., which is part of the reason why it took so long to get rereleased. Chances are they had to change some of the content.
    The only reason it took so long is because Japan never got it. They're not going to give us a title like Earthbound unless Japan got it first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    I guarantee they knew that there was going to be an 8th generation Nintendo console at that point, regardless of what Wikipedia says. And even if they didn't (something I seriously doubt), Mario and Zelda should have still been finished by the time the console launched.
    Mario and Zelda are not the only cash crops here. Plus, there was a Mario game at launch, and Zelda was going to take a while.

    If Mario 3D Land and Windwaker HD came out when the Wii U launched, then Nintendo would be working on new Mario and Zelda games now and be ready to release THOSE in the Fall, when the competition is going to be more fierce. They could have been working on the next mainstream Zelda game for all we know. How would they not be making more money than they are right now if they had more games for consumers to buy?
    Once again, there was a Mario game at launch. Zelda was confirmed to take a while, so they launched Wind Waker HD as a "delay tactic". The morale of the story is to be patient and realize that games are not just going to be released on the most ideal day.

    Hoenn has disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirachi9 View Post
    Sure, businesses do have deadlines, but unlike college in business you don't lose 10% of your profit for every day the game is late.
    No, you just lose your job if you don't meet the deadline in a project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Politoed View Post
    The morale of the story is to be patient and realize that games are not just going to be released on the most ideal day.
    My patience is not an issue though. The issue I brought up was that Nintendo had the market for an entire year and didn't capitalize on it like they should have. They dropped the ball when they had a proverbial monopoly.
    Last edited by SBaby; 19th July 2013 at 10:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    No, you just lose your job if you don't meet the deadline in a project. If a company sets a deadline and you don't meet it, they'll find somebody else that will
    They really should fire that Miyamoto guy for not having Pikmin 3 available at launch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirachi9 View Post
    They really should fire that Miyamoto guy for not having Pikmin 3 available at launch.
    I seriously doubt they had a deadline set for that game.

    But honestly, Nintendo does seem like its stuck in the past with a lot of things. I'm not saying to fire people or stop making Mario and Zelda games (if I was, then there was no point in any of my previous posts). But at the very least, get people that know HD technology better, so game production can be expedited a little bit. You spend a little bit of money to make a large profit. That's how it works when you run a business. Rule of Thirds. What you spend is a third of the projected profit from any given product.
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    The people who know how to make HD games in Japan only know how to make Monster Hunter clones and JRPGs, and the people in the west who know how to make HD games can only make "Brown 'n' Bloom"FPS games, neither of which Nintendo seems to be too interested in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    I guarantee they knew that there was going to be an 8th generation Nintendo console at that point, regardless of what Wikipedia says. And even if they didn't (something I seriously doubt), Mario and Zelda should have still been finished by the time the console launched.
    That's not what I said at all. Of course they knew there was going to be a new console. They had just finished developing a Zelda titles in 2011, so that's not coming out for 4-5 years. Mario we could likely see a bit sooner since Galaxy 2 was just finished in 2010.

    If you have to say this, then you really ARE naďve when it comes to the business world. Businesses do the exact same thing I outlines in the college project segment of my post. They're called deadlines.
    Yes, and they don't carry at all the same consequences, not to mention not every company has them. Especially in the gaming world. Activision enforces them a lot, however. Look how popular they are and how high quality the games they release are.

    If Mario 3D Land and Windwaker HD came out when the Wii U launched, then Nintendo would be working on new Mario and Zelda games now and be ready to release THOSE in the Fall, when the competition is going to be more fierce. They could have been working on the next mainstream Zelda game for all we know. How would they not be making more money than they are right now if they had more games for consumers to buy?
    Again. No. Games do not take a year to be developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    No, you just lose your job if you don't meet the deadline in a project.
    In some cases. I don't know what business experience you have, but it's an incredibly narrow view. Not all business work the way you think they do, nor should they.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    But honestly, Nintendo does seem like its stuck in the past with a lot of things. I'm not saying to fire people or stop making Mario and Zelda games (if I was, then there was no point in any of my previous posts). But at the very least, get people that know HD technology better, so game production can be expedited a little bit. You spend a little bit of money to make a large profit. That's how it works when you run a business. Rule of Thirds. What you spend is a third of the projected profit from any given product.
    Yeeeaaahhh... game design doesn't work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clamps View Post
    The people who know how to make HD games in Japan only know how to make Monster Hunter clones and JRPGs, and the people in the west who know how to make HD games can only make "Brown 'n' Bloom"FPS games, neither of which Nintendo seems to be too interested in.
    Zelda game developed by Square Enix incoming.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    But honestly, Nintendo does seem like its stuck in the past with a lot of things. I'm not saying to fire people or stop making Mario and Zelda games (if I was, then there was no point in any of my previous posts). But at the very least, get people that know HD technology better, so game production can be expedited a little bit. You spend a little bit of money to make a large profit. That's how it works when you run a business. Rule of Thirds. What you spend is a third of the projected profit from any given product.
    Okay, first this is somewhat contradictory. If they are making games for franchises with 25 or more years of seniority, why should they not be stuck in the past?

    Finally, can we stop saying "Mario and Zelda" like they are the only franchises that matter?

    Hoenn has disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Politoed View Post
    Finally, can we stop saying "Mario and Zelda" like they are the only franchises that matter?
    What other first-party games did they announce at E3 for the Wii U? And don't say Pikmin 3. We all know what's going on with that by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    Yeeeaaahhh... game design doesn't work that way.
    The Rule Of Thirds is a general rule for businesses that develop products. The amount you spend on the development, from the cost of the components of the product to the staff required to finish said project has to be at least a third of the projected profit of a given product by the end of the Peak Sales. The Peak is the point in which the product sells the most units (usually the first couple months after release, or during the holidays if the product is released close to said holidays). This is a model that most businesses that develop products follow, because it maximizes the chances of a product making money.

    And by the way, you still haven't answered my previous question. How would Nintendo NOT be making more money than they are right now if they had more games for the consumers to buy?
    Last edited by SBaby; 19th July 2013 at 8:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    The Rule Of Thirds is a general rule for businesses that develop products. The amount you spend on the development, from the cost of the components of the product to the staff required to finish said project has to be at least a third of the projected profit of a given product by the end of the Peak Sales. The Peak is the point in which the product sells the most units (usually the first couple months after release, or during the holidays if the product is released close to said holidays). This is a model that most businesses that develop products follow, because it maximizes the chances of a product making money.
    Yeah, that's nice in school, real world is completely different. You can't always blindly follow some rule. I would say most games do not fall under the rule of thirds at all, especially nowadays where development costs have absolutely ballooned.

    And by the way, you still haven't answered my previous question. How would Nintendo NOT be making more money than they are right now if they had more games for the consumers to buy?
    Because the same amount of games are going to be released. They're going to make the same amount of money. Even if games were as easy to make as you seem to think and Nintendo could pump out games once a year they wouldn't make more money, the games wouldn't be near the quality people expect and it would cheapen the experience. They wouldn't sell as well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    Yeah, that's nice in school, real world is completely different. You can't always blindly follow some rule. I would say most games do not fall under the rule of thirds at all, especially nowadays where development costs have absolutely ballooned.
    And the amount companies make from game sales has ballooned. It's called Inflation. So what's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    Because the same amount of games are going to be released. They're going to make the same amount of money.
    If the Mario and Zelda games had been released last holiday with the system, Nintendo would have 4 games out instead of two. I don't know how you get the same amount of games from that.
    Last edited by SBaby; 19th July 2013 at 8:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    And the amount companies make from game sales has ballooned. It's called Inflation. So what's your point?
    You're mistaken there, games are actually cheaper, for the most part. For example: N64 games were ~$70-$80.

    If the Mario and Zelda games had been released last holiday with the system, Nintendo would have 4 games out instead of two. I don't know how you get the same amount of games from that.
    Where's the extra two coming from?


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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    What other first-party games did they announce at E3 for the Wii U? And don't say Pikmin 3. We all know what's going on with that by now.
    Why can't I mentioned Pikmin 3? What is going on with it?

    The point I was trying to make was that sooner or later, they will have more franchises on there system. Mario and Zelda are not the only cash crops.

    Hoenn has disappointed.

    P.S. I get tired of complaints from great games.
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