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Thread: Kid Icarus: Uprising

  1. #6426
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    playing KI:U without mods is basically like playing Pokemon with only Smogon sets

    customization is what makes the game interesting

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  2. #6427

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Heaper View Post
    Okay, I'm gonna be that guy.
    For what?

    First of all, your proposal is stupid.
    Excuse me?

    Mods are the reason why people like this game.
    Why? Because they like over-the-top stupidity?

    Different weapon and mod combinations allow for a whole variety of playstyles.
    Your definition of variety would have to be this: Player 1 uses Energy Charge, Player 2 uses Energy Charge, Player 3 uses Energy Charge, Player 4 uses Energy Charge, and Player 5 uses Energy Charge.

    You can have a superfast club wielder or a slow but powerful sniper.
    That's funny. The only thing that attempts to counterbalance mods is the bloody Value. And see how well that works.

    Also, there are probably weapons that could beat every single other weapon if there were no mods.
    Those same weapons are banworthy anyway. Brawler Claws certainly are. The 3 SC on the neutral rapid is stupid by its lonesome. Tack on the ungimped walking when most weapons don't have 4+ SC on anything except the backshot and yeah, it's just shenanigans.

    Mods balance the game.
    No they don't.

    What you're suggesting is taking the variety and balance out of this game.
    Mods are what takes the variety and balance out of the game, and do so by being so over-the-top. Everybody uses the same tiring combination of mods and aren't punished for it.

    And if those are taken out, then multiplayer would be really, really stale and uninteresting.
    Yes, a multiplayer with WORKING GRID READING would be really, really stale and uninteresting.

    If you don't like, then fine, but your suggesting would ruin everyone else's experience
    If it's going to ruin everybody else's experience, then they're shallow enough to find nothing wrong with over-the-top stupidity that overshadows the more worthwhile aspects of the gameplay.
    And you can argue that banning mods would castrate the customization. That's far from true. There's still power combinations. You have no excuse to not have multiple powers on your grid when Aries Armor 4 and Pisces Heal 4, the most expensive powers in the game, can fit in the grid and even add in Sky Jump 1 or Poison Attack 1. More importantly, powers have counter play given that they expose how much space you are using, as well as how you are using it, which can be used to rule out certain threats. What checks mods? Some increased penalty for dying? So what, you have to kill the mod abuser first. And even that benefits the mod abuser when they recover powers faster.

    I dare you to do a match against some L9 bots when using a 100V weapon, then use your apparently-not-overpowered weapons, and then tell me that the results aren't drastically different. The fact that a storebought near-300V does infinitely better than a 100V is already telling enough.
    Last edited by Master Knight DH; 11th December 2013 at 3:46 AM.

  3. #6428
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    Look, it's totally ok to admit that you're just bad at the game... Literally nobody else is having problems, so maybe this just isn't the game for you. Some of your points aren't even true. High value weapons says nothing about how good a weapon is. I use some great low-200 weapons all the time and they are awesome.

    Also, nobody uses pisces heal online 0_0
    Last edited by poix_the_yak; 11th December 2013 at 4:36 AM.

  4. #6429
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    One thing I have to point out, getting a weapon is easy. But getting a weapon with the right modifiers and stats is not. Players often fuse many different weapons in order to get the modifiers and stats they want. Some of these modifiers aren't even "over-the-top" and even the really strong modifiers are hard to find.

    Buying the weapons from the shop do not guarantee they have the right modifiers or stats.

    And yes, a multiplayer with stale grid reading is quite boring, as well as having the problems that mods have as well. There will still be an unbeatable strategy that no matter what a player does, no matter how skilled, they aren't able to beat it. No matter how much balancing is done, there will still probably be an unbeatable strategy. This is why games that constantly update are good, so that these strategies are kept in check with constant updates (this point is digressing a bit though).

    While a "mod abuser" (not even sure that's a thing) can recover powers faster, it does not help them if they do not get use their powers. Powers are meant to either further enhance their weapon or help mitigate their weakness.

    I think this honestly boils down to skill and decision making. You want to use a weapon that complements your playstyle and allows you to hold your own against others. If you use a weapon which doesn't suit your style, you will not play as well. Conversely, if you do use a weapon that complements your style, you'll likely play better. Experience with the game can also affect how well you do. If you get proficient with a weapon and understand how it plays, you will do better as a result.
    Last edited by Recon; 11th December 2013 at 5:03 AM.
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  5. #6430
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    Those mods. God forbid we have variety in the weapons. I wouldn't want anything in a game to be interesting or have an incentive. :/

    Cipher sent us to hell - but we're going even deeper - take back every Pokemon that we've lost!
    Wakin, I'm already a demon...
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  6. #6431

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    Quote Originally Posted by poix_the_yak View Post
    Look, it's totally ok to admit that you're just bad at the game...
    Ooh! An ad hominem to avoid disputing my arguments. IF anybody sucks at the game, it's you.

    Literally nobody else is having problems,
    Except, oh, all the complaints about things that SHOULD be legal like Slip Shot.

    so maybe this just isn't the game for you.
    How about you stop ruining it with your own arrogance.

    Some of your points aren't even true.
    Oh yeah?

    High value weapons says nothing about how good a weapon is.
    Look at the design reasons. Value is there to prevent people from using the most powerful options and simply destroy everything with no problem.

    I use some great low-200 weapons all the time and they are awesome.
    Yeah, they're "awesome." Because there's just no balance along the mods. Evasion +2 is less than 20 Value, what.

    Also, nobody uses pisces heal online 0_0
    And I'm supposed to care about that in this argument why?
    I find it funny you claim I'm bad at the game when you can't even argue off my points with any efficiency.

  7. #6432
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    I fused two weapons to get the Hewdraw Club. I'm done. No need for any rational incentive.

    Cipher sent us to hell - but we're going even deeper - take back every Pokemon that we've lost!
    Wakin, I'm already a demon...
    3DS friend code: 2148-8189-4401 (Rock Type) Nosepass/Pupitar/Barbaracle
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  8. #6433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Knight DH View Post
    What checks mods? Some increased penalty for dying? So what, you have to kill the mod abuser first. And even that benefits the mod abuser when they recover powers faster.
    nothing "checks" mods, because mods aren't some entirely separate strategy all alone all by themselves, they're a mechanic like any other

    yes, if you use a 100 value weapon versus a good 299 value weapon, you'll probably lose, and the reason you'll probably lose is because you're intentionally gimping yourself; it's like running ThunderShock, Ember, Water Gun, and Vine Whip on your Pokemon when you could be using Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Surf, and Power Whip

    you don't view individual game mechanics in a vacuum where you're the only one playing with them; the mechanics are there for everyone to use and abuse; they are, in every sense of the phrase, a part of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
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  9. #6434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    nothing "checks" mods, because mods aren't some entirely separate strategy all alone all by themselves, they're a mechanic like any other

    yes, if you use a 100 value weapon versus a good 299 value weapon, you'll probably lose, and the reason you'll probably lose is because you're intentionally gimping yourself; it's like running ThunderShock, Ember, Water Gun, and Vine Whip on your Pokemon when you could be using Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Surf, and Power Whip

    you don't view individual game mechanics in a vacuum where you're the only one playing with them; the mechanics are there for everyone to use and abuse; they are, in every sense of the phrase, a part of the game
    On top of that, is it really customization when all you get from two weapons is another weapon you can get elsewhere? I don't really understand why this is even an argument. It's like telling a competitive Smasher to not use certain moves.

    Cipher sent us to hell - but we're going even deeper - take back every Pokemon that we've lost!
    Wakin, I'm already a demon...
    3DS friend code: 2148-8189-4401 (Rock Type) Nosepass/Pupitar/Barbaracle
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  10. #6435

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Heaper View Post
    And yes, a multiplayer with stale grid reading is quite boring,
    If you think Grid Reading is stale and boring, then try it out yourself. I'm sure you could do it so well. Hey, while we're at it, let's call timed match Chess boring as well.

    as well as having the problems that mods have as well.
    What?

    There will still be an unbeatable strategy that no matter what a player does, no matter how skilled, they aren't able to beat it.
    Theorycraft. And are you remarking that Grid Reading is a broken strat? Then here's some free advice: Health Recovery's only difference between its levels is its maximum duration, and if they're hit early into the use, then that doesn't matter. By the way, there's a per level difference of 2 spaces. But oh right, don't get hit, not even to trade out a meager 1 HP for psychology.

    While a "mod abuser" (not even sure that's a thing) can recover powers faster, it does not help them if they do not get use their powers.
    Except they can use their powers FAR more liberally.

    Powers are meant to either further enhance their weapon or help mitigate their weakness.
    More like they're designed to set up a baseline standard. Or have you not noticed that Super Armor costs 4+2L spaces for 1L charges, but provides 20 seconds of duration instead of the standard 16? And this can't be coincidental either, because Counter ALSO has a 20 second duration for the fact that it's only 3+L spaces for 1+L charges, and by total coincidence it provides KB immunity too.

    I think this honestly boils down to skill and decision making.
    What does? Not mod matches. Most things can't even get through Brawler Claws' neutral rapid fire abuse to begin with, for example.

    You want to use a weapon that complements your playstyle and allows you to hold your own against others. If you aren't good, that will affect how well you will do. Conversely, if you are good at the game, you utilize your weapon to the best of your ability.
    When the Death Predator is incredibly n00b-friendly and requires virtually no skill to use to ridiculous effect on too many setups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    nothing "checks" mods, because mods aren't some entirely separate strategy all alone all by themselves, they're a mechanic like any other
    If that was an excuse, I'd have complained about powers in general long ago. The game is designed to make the player suck for not using THOSE. Mods are supposed to be built with the exact opposite objective in mind: make extra ability an option but punish the player for trying to cheap out opposition by using it. The game fails miserably in that regard.

    yes, if you use a 100 value weapon versus a good 299 value weapon, you'll probably lose, and the reason you'll probably lose is because you're intentionally gimping yourself; it's like running ThunderShock, Ember, Water Gun, and Vine Whip on your Pokemon when you could be using Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Surf, and Power Whip
    No, the whole point of using a 100V weapon is to not need to rely on extra ability, and to be punished less for doing so. You are missing the point of the Value system in the first place if you think the developers designed the game like what you described intentionally.

    you don't view individual game mechanics in a vacuum where you're the only one playing with them; the mechanics are there for everyone to use and abuse; they are, in every sense of the phrase, a part of the game
    What about when a given mechanic falls apart because of the insultingly bad math? And by that logic, items should be legal. Everybody can use the Power Up Drop, for example.
    Seriously? You think that games would become more stale without mods. But in fact, they're stale WITH mods because of all the Energy Charge users running around. You claim that the game would be boring with rewarded Grid Reading, but how do you know? So you're telling me that you always make the best move in timed Chess as well? Okay, sure.

  11. #6436
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    Sorry to sound stupid, but who really cares? IT'S A GAME PEOPLE, STOP TAKING IT SO SERIOUSLY! Even with the best Mods, you may still lose to a N00B! Most people still playing online don't bother trying to get 299 on their weapons so they can cause a lot of damage, but not take much from the shared life bar. Yeah, you may be strong, and yeah, you may be a force, but honestly, who cares? Just enjoy the game for what it is people.
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  12. #6437

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSG91x4ctA (12:50 match)
    Why yes, it's fun to get killed like Pichu did when he was the angel. (Don't even try to argue that Pichu was a newbie, what happened is not any more fair at leveled play.)

    Since you people decided to think that Guardian Orbitars needs mods to not be some shallow one-trick pony, here's my FC:
    5026-4532-8476
    And here's my Skype ID for quick communication:
    mknightdh

    Here's the conditions of the match:
    *3 Minutes, no Small/Large Arena, no items, no mods
    *Power bans: Random, Warp, Jump Glide
    *Weapon bans: Brawler Claws

    I will use Guardian Orbitars with a power set that has some but not incredible synergy, and it doesn't have Quick Charge. And speaking of, since this is the review phase, the following things need to be reviewed and may be banned in the future, though certainly won't be banned in the match:
    *Powers: Playing Dead, Lightweight, Quick Charge, Celestial Fireworks
    *Weapons: Taurus Arm, Compact Arm, Pudgy Palm, Raptor Claws

  13. #6438
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    wouldn't it make more sense to try to this stunt somewhere where there's still some semblance of a community playing the game (and who are actually kinda good at it)

    because most of the people on this Pokemon forum are probably playing the new Pokemon

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  14. #6439

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    Well, hey, you're claiming I suck at the game, yet here I am issuing a challenge that you tempted in the first place. And obviously, if you can't beat me to the bloodiest pulp ever when I'm using some short range weapon that isn't even using a completely synergetic power set nor do I have active experience using it, it's clear I actually am good and you are just dependent.

  15. #6440
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    I've never claimed to be good at this game; I played it casually back a year and a half ago, when it was new

    I don't know how I'm dependent when I'm doing something totally unrelated

    likewise, I don't know where I told you that you sucked

    I still don't understand what you're trying to accomplish

    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
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  16. #6441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Knight DH View Post
    Well, hey, you're claiming I suck at the game, yet here I am issuing a challenge that you tempted in the first place. And obviously, if you can't beat me to the bloodiest pulp ever when I'm using some short range weapon that isn't even using a completely synergetic power set nor do I have active experience using it, it's clear I actually am good and you are just dependent.
    I haven't even touched this game in at least a year, but...looking through Excitable Boy's posts, I don't think he ever stated that you suck at the game. So there's no contradiction there.

    Furthermore, does challenging someone to a match like that actually accomplish anything? If you ask me, it seems a little childish to challenge someone to a match in that manner. Especially if it's only one match, you can't statistically prove anything with just that, either. It's like how on Smogon, a Pokemon isn't conclusively banned after just one test (quickbanned, sure, but that's straying from the point). There's nowhere near enough evidence to make a substantive conclusion unless more data is collected.

    Now, I don't know what competitive community there is for KI:U, but seeing as few people care enough to play anymore here, you're asking for a fight in the wrong place, regardless of who tempted whom. If said competitive community has people who agree with you, then sure, take it up in that community and see what you can get done there. But issuing a challenge to prove whatever point you're trying to make isn't going to get you too far. Not in that manner.
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  17. #6442
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    Lol

    MKDH migrated
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  18. #6443
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    Is this kid from another forum, Leo?

  19. #6444

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynergy View Post
    I haven't even touched this game in at least a year, but...looking through Excitable Boy's posts, I don't think he ever stated that you suck at the game. So there's no contradiction there.
    Except he's implying it.

    Furthermore, does challenging someone to a match like that actually accomplish anything?
    Aside from making a comment that you should have expected the moment you claimed I suck at the game? You tell me.

    If you ask me, it seems a little childish to challenge someone to a match in that manner.
    Oh yes, teach me how to be mature. You've been doing such a good job providing an example of maturity.

    Especially if it's only one match, you can't statistically prove anything with just that, either.
    Aside from deconstructing your ad hominem that I miraculously suck at the game.

    It's like how on Smogon, a Pokemon isn't conclusively banned after just one test (quickbanned, sure, but that's straying from the point). There's nowhere near enough evidence to make a substantive conclusion unless more data is collected.
    Never mind that I collected some raw math to support my case:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&usp=sharing
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing
    There you go. I would have posted those links earlier but the forum isn't liking URLs apparently.


    Now, I don't know what competitive community there is for KI:U, but seeing as few people care enough to play anymore here, you're asking for a fight in the wrong place, regardless of who tempted whom.
    And yet you have a thread like this at over 250 pages and counting.

    If said competitive community has people who agree with you, then sure, take it up in that community and see what you can get done there.
    That's if there's a competitive community that doesn't die from mods being so overpowered.

    But issuing a challenge to prove whatever point you're trying to make isn't going to get you too far. Not in that manner.
    I issued the challenge because your side was claiming I suck at the game somehow. Never mind that Grid Reading's origin has to do with Black Hole being used to useful effect on an ARIES ARMOR SET.
    There. Now I'm still waiting for somebody to agree to the conditions I set up. Prove that I'm miraculously wrong about Guardian Orbitars not being junk without something as stupid as Shot Range+.

  20. #6445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Knight DH View Post
    Except he's implying it.
    I don't see anywhere where he's intentionally implying anything about your level of ability. He's even made it clear he's a casual player, so there's hardly a basis upon which he can judge your level of skill.

    Aside from making a comment that you should have expected the moment you claimed I suck at the game? You tell me.
    I issued the challenge because your side was claiming I suck at the game somehow. Never mind that Grid Reading's origin has to do with Black Hole being used to useful effect on an ARIES ARMOR SET.
    When did I ever suggest that you suck at the game? It would be stupid of me to say you suck when I myself haven't even touched this game in over a year. I'm hardly a judge of whether or not someone is good at KI:U, so I'm not saying whether or not you're good or bad.

    Oh yes, teach me how to be mature. You've been doing such a good job providing an example of maturity.
    Well, for starters, an unsupported sardonic response like that isn't exactly mature.

    Aside from deconstructing your ad hominem that I miraculously suck at the game.
    Except that I never constructed that argument to begin with.

    Never mind that I collected some raw math to support my case:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&usp=sharing
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing
    There you go. I would have posted those links earlier but the forum isn't liking URLs apparently.
    Well, there we go, then. Seeing as I've not played in over a year, these numbers mean nothing to me, but if these numbers are what you need to support your case, then I won't say anything against it. Not that I've explicitly stated that I agree or disagree with your claim in the first place.

    As for the links, that was because you needed to reach a post count of 10 before you're allowed to post links. It's just something in place to stop adbots from spamming the forums.

    And yet you have a thread like this at over 250 pages and counting.
    I don't exactly blame you for not knowing this, but upon checking the last few pages of this thread, 250 of those pages are from before 2013. That's not exactly an active community, seeing as the post before yours was 3 weeks old (and it takes a month of inactivity here for a thread to be considered dead, in most cases).

    That's if there's a competitive community that doesn't die from mods being so overpowered.
    I don't know what to say to you then. Though this community here isn't exactly thriving either.
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  21. #6446
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    Except he's implying it.
    uhh

    sorry?

    Aside from making a comment that you should have expected the moment you claimed I suck at the game? You tell me.
    where did I say this

    help

    Oh yes, teach me how to be mature. You've been doing such a good job providing an example of maturity.
    holy sh*t dude calm your tits

    they're agitated as f*ck

    Aside from deconstructing your ad hominem that I miraculously suck at the game.
    I don't

    back up

    Never mind that I collected some raw math to support my case:
    I'm not too proud to say that I don't know what that's supposed to mean

    which, again, goes back to my question of why you're here

    And yet you have a thread like this at over 250 pages and counting.
    from like half a year ago, before people on a Pokemon forum started playing the new Pokemon

    the recent posts were excitement about news and this thing

    whatever it is

    That's if there's a competitive community that doesn't die from mods being so overpowered.
    then make your city upon a hill or whatever it is somewhere where people care about that

    I issued the challenge because your side was claiming I suck at the game somehow.
    no one is saying you suck

    we all know you know what you're talking about, supposedly, according to you, because we don't know better

    because we don't know any better, why are you taking this up with us

    Never mind that Grid Reading's origin has to do with Black Hole being used to useful effect on an ARIES ARMOR SET.
    see, I don't know what Grid Reading is, and I barely remember what those other two things are

    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
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  22. #6447
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    Quote Originally Posted by poix_the_yak View Post
    Is this kid from another forum, Leo?
    Yea. This thread now looks like the infamous MKDH topics on Gamefaqs.
    Ever fought someone online that used the Tank Skyscraper Club with Counter, Super Speed, and Super Armor? That's MKDH.

    He's been trying to make this argument about mods for a long time. People of GFaqs just got tired of it. Now he's here lol.
    The Graceful Assassin

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  23. #6448
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    Here's a plan: We can ignore him and he'll eventually get tired of us and whine on the Runescape forums or something.

  24. #6449

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    Here's an idea, poix_the_yak: you have been challenged to fight me when I'm using this apparently awful weapon type when I'm not even using Quick Charge or a fully synergetic setup, after claiming that I "suck" at the game at that. Even with the restriction to 100V weapons, you can either accept the terms, or suck forever like the savage troll you are. The choice is yours, and you can't even hope to make a third option, because you already decided to claim I "suck" at the game.

  25. #6450

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    Oh yeah, since people are asking what Grid Reading is, here's a couple of pics.




    Let that sink in.

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