Battling the King of the Mines! (722)

[gohan5]

I don't know how they could consider Clay's Palpitoad stronger then Ash's...

Why is this such an issue? It was one line. We know Ash's Palpitoad is strong, is it that hard to imagine that a gym leader's could possibly be stronger? I mean just look at Clay's Pokemon, they all had an intimidating appearance that was different from the others of their species so far. Case in point, look how much bigger and more intimidating Clay's Excadrill was compared to Iris's. I have to agree with her, based on appearances, Clay's Palpitoad did look stronger than Ash's. Now am I saying that Ash's Palpitoad isn't strong? No not at all, it's one of his strongest Pokemon.

Thank you Pepsi, I agree Clay's Palpitoad did look to be stronger than Ash's.

[dman_dustin]

Yeah, that's the weird thing. They hadn't even seen Clay's battling before they judged it. :/

This.

See Thing knows what I'm talking about, the whole comment was uncalled for.

It was insulting in my opinion , because Palpitoad beat a Stoutland, Darumaka, and a Zebstrika.

Then suddenly, Clay sends out his Palpitoad and it comes off aggressively expressive, and then Iris has the gall to say "It looks stronger than Ash's Palpitoad" despite witnessing Ash's Palpitoad at least take down TWO fully evolved presumably powerful Pokemon, and not knowing anything about Clay's Palpitoad.

Not only is it insulting to Ash's Palpitoad, it's also insulting to Burgundy and Elesa's skills as trainers.

Sure argue Burgundy sucks, but ignore that, we're talking about Elesa also here, and her Zebstrika killed the crap out of Bianca's three Pokemon, and then lost to Ash's Palpitoad, at full health.

The whole comment has a cascading insulting effect with a condescending tone.

Just because Clay's Palpitoad shows off more personality, it's suddenly a lot stronger?

I almost wish it was a 4 on 4, have Ash use his Palpitoad and one shot Clay's Palpitoad, just to shut Iris up. And then have Snivy beat Clay's hypothetical Stunfisk.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

You are over reacting, she just saw its fierceness and said that, stop exagerating, that was it, she has been complimentary of Satoshi latelly I don't get this...

Serious overreacting dman, I didn't care for her comment at all.

[Draco-123]

@dman_dustin The thing is that she said that Clay's was stronger not that Ash's was weak. IMO, she didn't say anything negative. She never said that Ash's Palpitoad was weak, pathetic, etc. Is it really an insult to say that someone is stronger?

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Yeah lol if she actually said something like that I would've cared.

[dman_dustin]

Is it really an insult to say that someone is stronger?

It is when there's no foreknowledge of the Pokemon. If there was some actual proof (aside from an expressive personality) that Clay's Palpitoad was stronger than Ash's Palpitoad than no it wouldn't be insulting to say that.

However if (real life example), I was known for being stronger than people who looked stronger than me because they were muscular or bigger, or even has some show of being stronger. Then I go up against someone who is roughly the same body size as me. I would find it insulting if one of my friends said that my opponent looked/was stronger than me.

So I freaking took out the Hulk (marvel comics) in my last match with just my index finger and one arm tied behind my back, and yet when I'm against someone who looks exactly like me (in body size, and shape), suddenly they're stronger just because they are more expressive in their personality. I would definitely take offense to that.

Because to me it only makes me think my friends have no faith in my ability to beat my opponent.

Now that example can't be applied largely to the Palpitoad, since Ash's Palpitoad wasn't even battling Clay's but still, to call out Ash's Palpitoad out like that really was uncalled for.

I would've accepted the following replacements for what Iris said:

1. That Palpitoad looks really strong, and looks like it has far more experience than Ash's Palpitoad (which should be true considering Clay is likely 5 times OLDER than Ash).

2. Ash looks like he has a tough battle. Clay's Palpitoad looks far more aggressive than Ash's Palpitoad (which is true because Ash's Palpitoad doesn't ROAR loudly and smacking its foot on the ground, causing damage to it).

And look at how easily Snivy killed the crap out of Palpitoad. I'm not saying Ash's Palpitoad could take vine whip, leaf blade and leaf storm, but Clay's Palpitoad rarely looked stronger.

Now I suppose I would be fine if Iris said what she said later in the battle. I mean Ash's Palpitoad has never really been dealt a lot 4x damage like Clay's Palpitoad.

But to say what Iris said without actually seeing the Palpitoad in actual battling is what I find insulting.

Because its like the concept of "your bark is worse than your bite" doesn't even cross their minds. For all we know Clay's Palpitoad (aside from knocking out Oshawott) could easily have been one of the weakest Palpitoad in existence.

But just because it acts more aggressively when it comes out of its Poke ball. It was necessary for Iris and Cilan to say that Clay's Palpitoad is stronger than Ash's Palpitoad.

Now maybe Cilan can use his Deus ex machina levels of connoisseur tasting and can easily tell who will win and lose in a match and would be more acceptable for Cilan to say what Iris did (only more connoisseur laced) . Iris however has no ability like that and therefore shouldn't have made that comment.

Now like I said I liked how Ash's Palpitoad was acknowledged since its unlikely we'll ever see it outside of battling BUT I think it could've been handled better.

[gohan5]

What on earth are you talking about? Did you even read your response? You contradicted yourself.

1. That Palpitoad looks really strong, and looks like it has far more experience than Ash's Palpitoad (which should be true considering Clay is likely 5 times OLDER than Ash).

2. Ash looks like he has a tough battle. Clay's Palpitoad looks far more aggressive than Ash's Palpitoad (which is true because Ash's Palpitoad doesn't ROAR loudly and smacking its foot on the ground, causing damage to it).

That's basically exactly what she said. She said "Hey is it my imagination or does that Palpitoad look stronger than Ash's?" She was basically saying that Clay's Palpitoad looks like it has more experience than Ash's and that he might have a tough battle. And Cilan agreed and went into how Ash might have a harder time taking down Palpitoad than Krokorok.

And why can't Iris make that kind of remark but Cilan can? We know she's got experience under her belt. Now if she was a newbie like May or Dawn I'd agree with you, she wouldn't be the best one to guage levels, but she's not. Honestly, people will make a big deal out of everything now won't they?

[dman_dustin]

What on earth are you talking about? Did you even read your response? You contradicted yourself.

No I didn't.

That's basically exactly what she said. She said "Hey is it my imagination or does that Palpitoad look stronger than Ash's?" She was basically saying that Clay's Palpitoad looks like it has more experience than Ash's and that he might have a tough battle. And Cilan agreed and went into how Ash might have a harder time taking down Palpitoad than Krokorok.

Looking stronger does not equal experience. I can be ripped and powerful looking, but if I've never wrestled before, can you say just because I look stronger than the opponent does that make me suddenly more experienced than the opponent.

And why can't Iris make that kind of remark but Cilan can?

Because Cilan's "career choice" is to look at the compatibility of a Pokemon based on snapshot decisions. That's what a Pokemon Connoisseur does, instead of actually watching the Pokemon interact with the trainer, they just look at the Pokemon, and instantly go "Oh yeah, you're compatible with this Pokemon, or you're not really compatible, you need to work on your bond with this Pokemon."

That's what Cilan does, saying that Iris has even remotely the same idea, honestly is insulting to Cilan and what his dream of being a top connoisseur. To say that a non-connoisseur can make snapshot decisions like that and be accurate, I would think would be very insulting. Because it makes the whole connoisseur "profession" moot and pointless, if someone who wants to be a dragon master can make snapshot decisions like that.

What would be the point of being a connoisseur when someone who isn't a connoisseur can be as accurate with snapshot decisions.

However I'll slightly let it slide under the assumption Iris learned something about Cilan's profession by travelling with him. I mean I guess it is possible that Iris learned something from Cilan.

BUT

We know she's got experience under her belt. Now if she was a newbie like May or Dawn I'd agree with you, she wouldn't be the best one to guage levels, but she's not.

Ash probably has more experience than Iris (since even though Iris presumably battled before Ash started his journey, Excadrill's disobedience cost Iris a lot of years of wasted training, making Ash have more battling experience since he didn't have one Pokemon that disobeyed him for a few years), and not even Ash is really qualified to make snap judgements like that, he at least could say "Wow, Pokemon Q looks really tough, I better be careful" I doubt Ash would admit that his Pokemon are "weaker" than Pokemon Q.

So since Ash really couldn't make comments like Iris, why should Iris be allowed to?

Honestly, people will make a big deal out of everything now won't they?

I wasn't making a big deal about it, it was just an observation, people responded to me questioning my observation, their the ones who had to make it a big deal. I was fine just leaving my comment as is, and have no one respond to it.

I think it's incredibly cruel that people won't respond to my posts and comments that I want them to respond to, but comments like these that I don't really care if anyone comments on, they have to actually respond to (turning it into a big deal, because I have to explain myself).

Granted I don't expect people to know what I want them to respond to and what I don't care if they respond to or not, but still.

****
If I post something that "you" (general, not anyone in particular), disagree with a passion, so much you have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, or I don't make any sense to you, how about you just don't respond to said comment.

[_Taidow_]

I sense a bit of over reacting. Sure she was annoying in this episode but people let it go.

[Janovy]

Lol whut? Iris insulted Ash in this episode? Iris was annoying in this episode? o_O

Is this fandom going completely crazy?

You guys are looking way too much into this. The only reason Iris said it looked stronger was because writers wanted us to know that Clay's Palpitoad is much stronger. And of course his Palpitoad was stronger since it's been much longer with Clay than Ash's Palpitoad has been with him. Simple logic guys, I don't see how she insulted him.

Oh God, you guys seriously tend to discuss some really unnecessary things.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Overreacting to a phrase that meant absolutelly nothing.

[_Taidow_]

Also Pikachu's reaction to seeing a Krokorok could be foreshadowing into the future. also Pepsi Plunge you should really put that signature in spoiler tags.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Also Pikachu's reaction to seeing a Krokorok could be foreshadowing into the future. also Pepsi Plunge you should really put that signature in spoiler tags.

Yup I think it was that, hopefully it wasn't Pikachu being spoiled yet again... I don't get why out of nowhere it would start to ask to be used in every gym.

I don't post out of the original anime section don't worry or atleast I don't post in the dub section, unless I did by mistake lol, I didn't get insulted by anyone so I think its safe, I even got 2 or 3 guys asking me where its from gave them the ending and they thanked me lol.

Edit: Actually did, deleted the posts.

Also dman, it amazes me that you can actually write that much on such a simple subject :i

True l, the first thing I said when I came to the thread and saw that dman made that huge post was "WTF !?"

[Valoo.]

also Pepsi Plunge you should really put that signature in spoiler tags.

He doesn't post anywhere but Anime Spoilers, so it doesn't really matter.

Also dman, it amazes me that you can actually write that much on such a simple subject :i

Iris just said that the Palpitoad looked stronger than Ash's one, get over it. It wasn't an insult or anything, she just thought it looked strong. It's a kid's anime, it was to build up suspense.

[_Taidow_]

He doesn't post anywhere but Anime Spoilers, so it doesn't really matter.

Also dman, it amazes me that you can actually write that much on such a simple subject :i

Iris just said that the Palpitoad looked stronger than Ash's one, get over it. It wasn't an insult or anything, she just thought it looked strong. It's a kid's anime, it was to build up suspense.

Well these episodes aren't in Anime Spoilers.

[Valoo.]

Well these episodes aren't in Anime Spoilers.

Nobody's going to come to this thread for ages unless they actually watch the Japanese anime.

[1rkhachatryan]

Well considering Ash Palpitoad got taken out by Mijumaru who got totally killed by Clay's Palpitoad, I would say there is a difference in power level, either that or Mijumaru's defeat of Palpitoad was total plot hax(which I think it is anyway).

[deathseer]

Finally, an enjoyable Gym Battle. Took them long enough. Liked all of the battles, especially Gantle vs Excadrill. And I'm loving the new animation for Sandstorm. It looks like an actual weather effect.

And Clay calling Ash out for using Attract instead of attacking head on had me in stitches.

"STRATEGY?! THAT WAS NO STRATEGY!"

[CupidKirby]

Really? That seemed wrong to both of you? That she was worried that Ash would have a tough time? Why do people think Iris is a malicious person? Anybody could tell she was worried not berating Ash. It's not like she spit on his freaking Palpitoad for goodness sakes, get over it. She made an observation, it's called building the drama of the moment. And I don't even know what else she could have said that pissed people off, but people will hate on a character for anything now *shrug*.

It didn't seem wrong to me. I don't hate Iris or anything, just the lines the writers gave her this episode. Some of my favorite characters get horrible lines all the time. They've emphasized that Ash doesn't just rely on type advantages and powerhouses to win over and over and it seemed Iris was degressing from that point this whole ep. And true she has experience, but that was with an Excadrill who's resistant/unaffected to 11 types and is a powerhouse himself. The way she comments on Ash's pokemon choice everytime he does one just bugs me I guess. That's my side anyway.

And Clay calling Ash out for using Attract instead of attacking head on had me in stitches.

"STRATEGY?! THAT WAS NO STRATEGY!"

Good to know they're emphasizing just how annoying attract can be...especially after all the attract spam this generation.

[Hikari10Girl]

This was probably the best Gym Battle in Unova so far IMO.

I loved the scene with Excadrill and Boldore wrestling with each other. That was epic.

Oshawott getting blinded by Sandstorm also saw a new tactic, Oshawott cleaning his eyes with Water Gun.

[Zappo09]

I wonder who will voice Clay in English?

[the1stpkmnfan]

So Ash has not by 4, but 5 Unova badges. Now we're getting somewhere.

Ash's Roggenrola evolving was probably the coolest thing, but it wasn't the only highlight. Clay's temper was probably the most adorable thing ever.

Cilan said Attract was a move Ash is expected to use (along those words); I agree; Ash does have a thing for making the ladies fall for him (Annabel is one of them).

Glad we got some Oshawott action and some sweet Snivy battling too. Ash's newly evolved Boldore must be the new Grotle; when Boldore gave Ash a hug by laying on him on the ground. Daww.

[AuraChannelerChris]

Maybe it was just me, but Roggenrola seemed to be in GOD MODE taking all those attacks.

[Janovy]

Maybe it was just me, but Roggenrola seemed to be in GOD MODE taking all those attacks.

If you're talking about those one-hit KO moves, Roggenrolla has Sturdy and is unhurt by them.

[SmartD]

A great episode. The best was Roggenrola evolving into Boldore and beating Excadrill. Now it's on to the next Gym Battle.