Team Nightmare

[ptz]

SIngles/wifi ou mine fc is 3010 7215 2050

[koolaidman594]

SIngles/wifi ou mine fc is 3010 7215 2050

ok, fair warning, i mainly do doubles, so the move sets and team are fairly slapped together but lets go for it

[ptz]

I beat koolaidman 2-0 gg welcome to the team man

[koolaidman594]

I beat koolaidman 2-0 gg welcome to the team man

gg my good man and thank you!

[Desert_Fox]

So Im guessing you guys know that as of a day or two ago Deoxys-D has been banned from OU. Reading the thread Ive come to see that Smogon is seemingly banning things that are diverse at anything. One person mentioned that Speed was banned because it could be a lead and lay up layers of spikes or be offensive. Really? I surely hope thats not why they banned him but anyway back to defense.

This paragraph outlines something that I disagree with and maybe you will have an opinion on it.

The reason you would think it was broken is because it can reasonably get up SR + a layer of Spikes and prevent you from getting anything- all of its counters are bait if it has the right anti-counter move. Psycho Boost / Taunt / Magic Coat / Skill Swap / Superpower etc., seeing Deo-D in Team Preview usually tells you nothing about which of the moves it's running, so it could very well be carrying the move that beats your counter. Granted, it might not be but how fun is that, you wait until Turn 1 when it reveals move 3 and 4 to figure out if you won or lost?


What I bolded is what makes me scratch my head. So Defense is a suspect because now hes a win condition? You have Defense on your team with the right moves and BAM you auto win. No. Team preview doesnt tell you anything about any Pokemon. Its the team as a whole that will tell you about each Pokemon to a point. Expect ALL forms of weather to be a suspect now... Also, I saw in the thread someone mention banning Sand Veil Garchomp and thus allowing it to be used with Rough Skin. Blaziken had Blaze to work with if Speed Boost was the problem. Why not ban Speed Boost on it?

[koolaidman594]

So Im guessing you guys know that as of a day or two ago Deoxys-D has been banned from OU. Reading the thread Ive come to see that Smogon is seemingly banning things that are diverse at anything. One person mentioned that Speed was banned because it could be a lead and lay up layers of spikes or be offensive. Really? I surely hope thats not why they banned him but anyway back to defense.

This paragraph outlines something that I disagree with and maybe you will have an opinion on it.

The reason you would think it was broken is because it can reasonably get up SR + a layer of Spikes and prevent you from getting anything- all of its counters are bait if it has the right anti-counter move. Psycho Boost / Taunt / Magic Coat / Skill Swap / Superpower etc., seeing Deo-D in Team Preview usually tells you nothing about which of the moves it's running, so it could very well be carrying the move that beats your counter. Granted, it might not be but how fun is that, you wait until Turn 1 when it reveals move 3 and 4 to figure out if you won or lost?


What I bolded is what makes me scratch my head. So Defense is a suspect because now hes a win condition? You have Defense on your team with the right moves and BAM you auto win. No. Team preview doesnt tell you anything about any Pokemon. Its the team as a whole that will tell you about each Pokemon to a point. Expect ALL forms of weather to be a suspect now... Also, I saw in the thread someone mention banning Sand Veil Garchomp and thus allowing it to be used with Rough Skin. Blaziken had Blaze to work with if Speed Boost was the problem. Why not ban Speed Boost on it?

half of that stuff never makes sense to me, like they ban drizzle and swift swim as leads but not sand rush and sand stream or drought and chlorophyl?

[celestial phantom]

The overall bans come from an aspect of how much of each dominates the tiers.

@Koolaidman

If you look at the combination of Swift Swim + Drizzle, you have kingdra, kabutops, omastar, ludicolo all as swift swimmers who abuse the boosted power of their STAB Hydro Pumps/Waterfall in which ever case all with powerful attacking stats that will 1 shot anything that isn't a wall or resist. And out of those, kingdra and ludicolo both have a pretty unique typing, while the other 2 have a great offensive typing allowing for utter destruction. Water types are just a bulky form of pokemon that will stick around after a few hits and return damage.

With Sandstorm and Sand Rush, the only thing that ever maximized the full potential of this combo was Excadrill. Stoutland and Sandslash can make somewhat good use of this ability but nothing too ground breaking as they are still with their easy counters when lacking the proper support or move set. Simple case, easier to ban Excadrill rather than complex ban something with 6 pokemon to use them, and only one who really kills off teams or threats with it.

Lack of proper abusers are the reason why that Drought + Chlorophyll is still allowed to. Out of 30 or 40 pokemon with this ability and only 1/3 to 1/2 of which are fully evolved and usable, only 3 pokes really can abuse it and only one true stand out. Venusaur, Sawsbuck, and Victreebel. I'd say with proper set up and the right sleep powder hits, Exeggutor and Lilligant both can abuse this too. However a lot of grass types even with the speed boost are mediocre, have a lacking movepool, and overall still have easy checks and counters to them that are common on several types of teams. The only addition really is that it becomes a battle for speed tiering based on how fast they make their chloro users, although a lot of them don't hit like a tank or truck anyway without some consequence of specs, band, or loss of stat from something like leaf storm or another powerful grass move. As well bar Venusaur Earthquake and Sawsbuck Jump Kick or Nature Power, and to an extent Sun Weather Ball or HP fire, Steel types wall most chloro users, as well as blissey/chansey, kyurem B isn't dying, neither is landorus/thundurus T, nor Volcarona bar HP Rock. To many things can stop potential sweeps really outside use of the 3 listed above.

As for DF, sand veil as an ability did get banned, so allowing garchomp with rough skin was was the trade-off to have it back in OU. The thing about complex bans v. regular bans, is that you end up having to do a bit of specific coding to allow for one specific ability for one poke without having to ban all the other abilities in the process from what I hear. Seeing as a whole ability was banned, it allowed for the pokemon to be released without coding conflict. Unless they decide to ban speed boost don't expect Blaze Blaziken anytime soon, as several other pokes depend on that ability such as Sharpedo and Ninjask.

I do dislike the Deo-D ban really as I never found him overwhelming when I had a spinner on hand, or some form of taunter which I usually have on OU based teams. If you are just going to let a Deo-D sit there and set up hazards while you wait for it to reveal moves 3 and 4 you kind of deserve to lose honestly. He did have good speed, with powerful bulk, but did need to rely on night shade for any real damage since Superpower hitting anything non super effective would be pointless. Psycho Boost gives you one chance to hit something, but if they have a dark type, good bye sucker, thanks for playing. Taunt and Magic Coat do make it more viable when they try to set up hazards while you do...and I have no idea why you want to use skill swap at all...that seems pretty ridiculous in my opinion. The one thing I'm still liking about PO is that we're not that ban happy yet, and still have both this guy and Tornadus T in OU, so at least we still have some variety, but more and more people are trying to get our tiers more like smogon because they can't play the differences between the 2 metagames we create. Such a shame really.

Well sorry for the wall of text, but you did ask for why and here is the logical answer~

[Desert_Fox]

Seems to make sense. I never thought it would be hard to say "Blaziken can not use Speed Boost," but then again I guess it would be a little complicated. Even the same thing with Excadrill but I think with Mold Breaker its still nasty. Chloro and Sun isnt that bad and you hit all of the right points except the fact that Grass isnt that great of an attacking type. Most Grass Pokemon dont have amazing coverage options. Victreebel, Venusaur and Sawsbuck are the few exceptions. Smogon is always on the prowl to ban something and Im starting not to like it. Tornadus-T ban was... Ok I guess. I understand how Regenerator was made it harder to kill because it could outlast the counters making them... not counters anymore. Defense ban wasnt needed though. Ok so he could get up SR and a layer of spikes in most cases. Forry can do that to especially with Sturdy and Pain Split. It also has Rapid Spin to add to his utility. Defense ran Skill Swap to get around Magic Bounce.

[rayray22]

I don't like this Deoxys D ban either. He is one of my favorite leads and now I have to edit one of my wifi teams...I may be playing on PO more but I haven't been doing any sort of battling for a while. I need to have some battles soon. I just been focused on school, work, and I've actually just been playing old school yugioh games like Forbidden Memories lately lol.

By the way, I need to know who is interested in having a PO war with Creamery Command? I have no idea what happened with our Wifi war with Team Sky that was supposed to take place a month ago. I guess they just don't want to war us. CC does have 1 wifier so I could take either Fox, Conan, or jmag on the team. They want a 5 v. 5 OU bo3 war.

Last but not least, welcome to Team Nightmare koolaidman!

[koolaidman594]

[QUOTE=Last but not least, welcome to Team Nightmare koolaidman![/QUOTE]
thanks! and so this isnt spam, would anyone be willing to help me prepare for VGCs? i need both team building advice ad battle practice if anyone would be willing to help it would be much appreciated
@Celestial: thank you for the explanation, what you're saying does make a ton of sense, now i understand why DSS teams are so common on random matchup

[rayray22]

Well now CC said they want all PO war. Unfortunately no wifiers, theirs left.

[jmagician90]

how has everyone been? Gl in the war thats coming up guys.

[rayray22]

There goes our chance to war. CC had other war offers they wanted to take so our negotiations were dropped. In a way I think it's good because we could work on getting our clan active again and getting ourselves war ready and back into the metagame.

[FR3SH SK1LLZ]

Yeah, I need to get back into playing. Haven't played PO in a few months.

[Desert_Fox]

Battling is starting not to be no fun. People always DC on me because Im outplaying the **** out of them... :/

Im really about to quit pokemon... Its ****ing annoying how people DC as soon as I do some amazing **** and win. I was down 6-3 with most of his team paralyzed and came back and won it using Marowak. The burn from his Heatrans Lava Plume didnt kill my Starmie and he D/Ced. Lets not forget my Stone Edge missed First turn when I predicted his switch from Scizor to either Jellicent or Latios. Then when I predicted his Jellicent to switch out from my Roserade my Stun Spore missed his Heatran. Whatever... Im a boss.

[NahimC]

PTZ has recruited me

[ptz]

welcome to the team Nahimc

[celestial phantom]

Cool and welcome to the team nahimc. So, how's it been guys? I've been sitting around doing nothing honestly, except waiting out a light snow storm the last 2 days. Got promoted to running tournaments on PO, so I have power and little kids on a server look up to me like a hero. It's all for the kids obviously (⌐■_■) no big deal. However, pokemon has started to bore me to the point I want to take a small break or reinvent myself in something.

[ptz]

Hey guys anyone wanna wifi battle?

[koolaidman594]

sure i have a vgc team that needs testing if your willing