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Thread: 4th Gen RMT

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default 4th Gen RMT

    Everything in the spoiler pertains to my original team. At this point it is useful information. Unless you would like to see what my team looked like originally, and comment on what could have been kept, you can just scroll past it.

    OU meta. Much credit goes out to Bigheaded for the major revisions of my first team!

    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Keen Eye
    Impish
    252 HP/ 176 Def/ 80 SDef
    -Brave Bird
    -Roost
    -Whirlwind
    -Spikes

    This would be my Skarmory lead. Modeled after the traditional physical wall Skarmory. Hopefully multiple layers of Spikes can be established.

    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Levitate
    Timid
    4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Substitute

    Special sweeper Gengar. Can be used as a revenge killer if necessary.

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Inner Focus
    Naive
    80 Atk/ 252 SAtk/ 76 Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Flamethrower
    -Superpower
    -ExtremeSpeed

    This Dragonite is a mix of special/physical attacks. As this is mostly an offensive team, I needed some versatility, and advice was given that Dragon Dance would probably drag out some physical walls.

    Swampert @ Choice Band
    Torrent
    Adamant
    172 HP/ 252 Atk/ 84 Spe
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Punch
    -Stone Edge

    A different take on Swampert. Capable of taking some hits, as well as dishing out some damage. Most people will expect Swampert to be another wall. This is meant to surprise them.

    Metagross @ Choice Scarf
    Clear Body
    Jolly
    252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
    -Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    -Thunder Punch
    -Explosion

    Originally, Heracross was here. Metagross is a more viable physical sweeper capable of withstanding more damage than Heracross would, as well as offering a larger variety of attacks.

    Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
    Sand Stream
    Sassy
    252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SDef
    -Crunch
    -Thunder Wave
    -Ice Beam
    -Stone Edge

    Tyranitar is a special wall, with a twist. This team is not capable of inflicting status ailments with the exception of paralysis with Thunder Wave here.

    One major weakness is the fact that I am only able to inflict paralysis. One remedy I considered was Quagmire instead of Swampert. This would still defensively cover the same types, as well as offer the ability to inflict poison with Toxic. However, this would mean I would have yet another wall, which I'm not sure would be good or bad.

    Criticism is welcomed with open arms!

        Spoiler:- Original Team:
    Last edited by Krick88; 24th January 2012 at 8:18 PM. Reason: Updated Team

  2. #2
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    Default

    One first note before i look at each of them. At the bottom is where a great deal of thought about when each pokemon "as a team" would be used. So i suggest you read that before making any changes i suggest before then (i.e the breloom isn't of much use to the suggested final team at the bottom).

    Quote Originally Posted by Krick88 View Post
    Vileplume @ Leftovers
    Chlorophyll
    Mild
    252 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 4 SDef
    -Moonlight
    -Petal Dance
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Giga Drain

    I suppose I would lead with Vileplume. Seeing as I've never really battled competitively before, I really haven't the slightest clue what else on my team I should open with. When looking at Vileplume's base stats, I noticed it was way too squishy in the HP area so decided to put half of the EVs there. With Moonlight/Giga Drain and Leftovers I'm hoping for it to be a pest. Although in my opinion this is the weakest Pokemon in my party, and I definitely need to find a solution for it.
    Personally i wouldn't ever consider using a vileplume without abusing sunlight. This would then mean it outspeeds nearly anything, the only exceptions being anything which has used a speed boost (i.e dragon dance/agility) Or choice scarf'd pokemon and even then it needs to be very fast (i.e a base of ~95+ speed).
    This would also mean i would not lead with it.
    If you are looking for a grass pokemon, the usual choice is breloom:
    Breloom @ Toxic Orb abil: Poison Heal
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly EV's 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
    ~ Spore
    ~ Focus Punch
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Seed Bomb
    The idea being that it will outspeed 80% of stuff, use spore to sleep them 100% of the time (unless they have something which blocks sleep, i.e insomnia), setup a substitute on first turn of sleeping, then you have 2 ultra powerful stabs to abuse.

    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Levitate
    Mild
    4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Thunderbolt
    -Substitute

    Gengar would be classified as a Special Sweeper. As far as I'm concerned I think this is a pretty common moveset, and it's purpose should be self explanatory. I figured Black Sludge would be more beneficial to me rather than any of the Choice items, simply because I don't like the idea of being stuck with using one attack.
    Looks fairly good, it's a bit lacklustre in terms of damage but this thing will be fine as is really.

    Dragonite @ Muscle Band
    Inner Focus
    Adamant
    4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Aerial Ace
    -Fire Punch

    Dragonite would serve as a physical monster. Decided to beef up it's speed stat a bit since his purpose is to deal copious amounts of damage, and quickly. The idea I went for here was to get rid of anything switched in against it. Although looking at it now, maybe the combination of Fire Punch and Aerial Ace would be repetitive.
    I agree on the lines of firepunch/aerial ace. If i had to choose one i'd take aerial ace, but i'm sure there's better moves. Even a special move as people will bring in pokemon with very high defense such as steelix/skarmony when they see you dragon dance. Flamethrower/Fire Blast could be really useful should they switch in a bulky steel.

    Heracross @ Muscle Band
    Guts
    Adamant
    252 Atk/ 4 SDef/ 252 Spe
    -Close Combat
    -Megahorn
    -Stone Edge
    -Night Slash

    Heracross is here to deal with Dark, Grass, Rock and Steel types mainly. However I've used it to deal with Psychics on the rare occasion as well. Another Physical attacker.
    Personally i'd be using a life orb as it will rarely survive an attack anyway, so making it lose 10% hp isn't going to do much.

    Porygon-Z @ Wise Glasses
    Download
    Modest
    4 Def/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
    -Nasty Plot
    -Ice Beam
    -Psyshock
    -Tri Attack

    Porygon-Z, another special attacker, was something I threw in here mainly for Dragon types, and to harass some of the weaker Ghosts that may arise. However, Psyshock is there in order to deal with Machamp or any other Fighting types.
    Psychock is actually a 5th gen move, so how it's on this set means you've been looking the wrong place on smogon

    This set looks like yours and comes with decent explanation:

    Porygon-Z @Life Orb ~Adaptability
    Timid, EV's: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Nasty Plot
    ~ Tri Attack
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Hidden Power Fighting

    Very simple to use and can 2HKO any Pokemon in the entire game after just one boost. Tri Attack is Porygon-Z's most reliable STAB attack, while Dark Pulse hits Ghost-types, and Hidden Power Fighting hits Rock- and Steel-types for super effective damage. The biggest letdown is Porygon-Z's middling Speed. Base 90 Speed is outrun by a lot in OU.


    Although i agree, it still leaves you a problem with dragons if you use this set. The only thing i can suggest would be to go plot/tri attack/thunderbolt/ice beam if you wished to keep a strong dragon killing attack there. Although, try using ice beam on empoleon.

    Empoleon @ Life Orb
    Torrent
    Modest
    252 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 4 Def
    -Surf
    -Aqua Ring
    -Flash Cannon
    -Mud Sport

    Empoleon is mostly here for it's support against Rock, Ground, and Fire types. Not quite about the EVs for this one. I went with Special Attack because I figured the fire power never hurts. HP EVs and Aqua Ring will hopefully allow it to hold up well against its weaknesses. Mud Sport is there to protect against EQ.
    This one looks very confused as it is trying to do 2 different things of attacking and tanking, and IMO empoleon can either do one or the other, trying to do both will make it fail at both.

    If you decide to keep him, i suggest you look here: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/empoleon

    I'm sure you noticed that I had two special attackers, two physical attackers, and hopefully what will end up being two tanking types. Tried to balance things out, as well as go with the versatility theme. But as I said earlier, there are probably many flaws and much room for improvement.
    Well i found the 4 attackers but there arn't any walls.
    If you would like the 2 walls then i'd suggest you look at the weaknesses/strengths of your team and base it on that.

    To look for some "effective" walls, lets start with your 4 sweepers to begin with:
    Gengar.
    Dragonite
    Heracross
    Porygon-Z

    I am slightly worried about what these pokemon can switch in on. So lets look at what they are resistant to:

    gengar, immune to: fighting/normal/ground, 4x resistant to: poison/bug, resists: grass. Great! can switch into all sorts of moves and generally heal back up.
    Dragonite: immune: Ground, 4x: grass, resists: Bug, Fighting, Fire, Water. This is fine, can switch into fire/water moves which gengar may have had trouble with.
    Heracross: No immunes/4x, Resists: Bug, Dark, Fighting, Grass, Ground. We have a serious problem here, all of these are already resisted except for dark, which being honest, isn't used much.
    Porygon-Z: Immune: Ghost. Weak Fighting. Personally i can't think of any time i would switch this pokemon in. I would wait for something else to faint, then bring this in, as it "should" survive any move which isn't fighting, then hopefully kill it with a strong tri-attack.

    Evaluating:

    Based on this, i would replace the heracross with Scizor: Immune: poison, 4x: Grass, Resist:Bug, Dark, Dragon, Ghost, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Steel
    This adds resistances to: Dragon/ICE, Psychic and Steel. to the first two sweepers. Whilst only being weak to fire (covered by dragonite)
    If Scizor isn't what you're looking for, my next suggestion would be a metagross. Weak to fire/ground, ground is covered hugely by your other 2, fire is dragonite.
    Porygon could be changed also, but this one i'll leave upto you.

    I am going to presume Heracross will be replaced, i really don't think it fits with dragonite/gengar.
    So lets look at the new suggeste sweepers

    This leaves weaknesses of:
    Gengar: Dark/Ghost/Psychic
    Dragonite: Rock/Dragon, 4x: ice
    Scizor/Metagross: Fire (ground is covered enough anyway if metagross)
    Porygon: Fighting

    So we're looking for two walls to cover as many of these as we can.
    One which comes to mind which deals with both Gengar/Dragonite would be bronzong:
    Immune:Poison. 4x res: Psychic, 1/2 Dragon, flying, grass, Ice, Normal, Rock, Steel
    Skarmony would also do the job exceedingly well, also gives a "resistance" to fighting as 99% of the time, fighting moves are going to be physical and skarmony's physical defense is incredible. Bronzong's defense is also decent and is more resistant to special moves.

    We still have not got a resistance to fire though (excluding dragonite, as he's offensive, not defensive). In fact the two suggested pokemon are actually weak to fire.

    For a resistance to fire, the obvious choice is going to be a bulky water.
    I would not choose empoleon as it's a steel type, so is not resistant to fire.
    The main ones would be: Vaporeon (also is immune to water, which could be EXCEEDINGLY useful versus rain dance), milotic, possibly also gyaradoes (this would be more offensive though). Gyaradoes also resists fighting to a monumental level as it has intimidate to reduce physical attacks power.

    The one problem with the bulky water, is that we have no pokemon to deal with electric pokemon at all. For example a jolteon could very easily deal huge damage to this team. So perhaps swampert as a possible choice also.


    After you've made some changes to your team i'll post on possible further improvements.
    Sorry for essay but whilst your team would be "ok", a bit more thought into when these pokemon would be used makes it more competitive.
    Post what team you would like to change to and i'll have a look then

    I noticed no "legendaries" even though these are often grouped in with pokemon such as dragonite/gengar as they're deemed equally useful, and in some cases less useful.
    I've kept the "no legendary" theme also, but some would be allowed for this level of play.


    One last note, i've not got a "lead" for your team. It may be worth trying Skarmony as a lead, and using a "lead" moveset/EV's from smogon. http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory
    Last edited by Bigheaded; 22nd January 2012 at 5:20 PM.
    My Diamond Sandstorm BT squad:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=14238023 Streak: 50
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=556617 Streak: 47

    My White2 Super Single Subway Squad:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?598816 streak: 64 wins.

  3. #3
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    Oh boy! That was a long one. Okay, see I knew there were at least a few things that were off. Thankfully there was someone intelligible on the subject like you to help me out!

    I would definitely take your advice on leading with Skarmory. Smogon gave me a pretty good background there now that you suggested it. So....

    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Sturdy
    Impish
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    -Spikes
    -Whirlwind
    -Roost
    -Bravebird

    I would also swap my Empoleon with a Swampert:

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Torrent
    Relaxed
    248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
    -Steath Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Beam
    -Roar

    Now from what I've been seeing, it looks like this Swampert may also provide as a lead, but I've switched it with Empoleon in order to provide an immunity against Electricity and a resistance to Fire.

    To solve the problem of Heracross, I think I'll go with Metagross. I've used Scizor during in-game play, but have never tried a Metagross. My question then becomes what to do with the EVs. Attack is obviously a must, and then I guess maybe speed incase of a Dragon Danced Gyarados? Anyway:

    Metagross @ Choice Scarf
    Clear Body
    Jolly
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    -Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    -Thunder Punch
    -Explosion

    For now, I'll leave Porygon-Z until I have some more time to look for an effective substitute or a better moveset. Could it be used as a revenge killler? But otherwise, I think I've covered the main issues that you've spotted, Bigheaded.

  4. #4
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    Dec 2011
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    158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krick88 View Post
    Oh boy! That was a long one. Okay, see I knew there were at least a few things that were off. Thankfully there was someone intelligible on the subject like you to help me out!

    I would definitely take your advice on leading with Skarmory. Smogon gave me a pretty good background there now that you suggested it. So....

    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Sturdy
    Impish
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    -Spikes
    -Whirlwind
    -Roost
    -Bravebird

    I would also swap my Empoleon with a Swampert:

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Torrent
    Relaxed
    248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
    -Steath Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Beam
    -Roar

    Now from what I've been seeing, it looks like this Swampert may also provide as a lead, but I've switched it with Empoleon in order to provide an immunity against Electricity and a resistance to Fire.

    To solve the problem of Heracross, I think I'll go with Metagross. I've used Scizor during in-game play, but have never tried a Metagross. My question then becomes what to do with the EVs. Attack is obviously a must, and then I guess maybe speed incase of a Dragon Danced Gyarados? Anyway:

    Metagross @ Choice Scarf
    Clear Body
    Jolly
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    -Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    -Thunder Punch
    -Explosion

    For now, I'll leave Porygon-Z until I have some more time to look for an effective substitute or a better moveset. Could it be used as a revenge killler? But otherwise, I think I've covered the main issues that you've spotted, Bigheaded.
    you will be amused to know i've actually been testing a team similar to that one. Although i did notice that swampert was also a physical wall, not a special wall, so you still don't have anything which can take a STAB "neutral" attack on the special side.
    For the special wall you could try snorlax, as with it's incredible hp and spd whilst still being decent offensively, it could be pretty sweet. Or you can see my interesting special wall in my team.

    About the porygon as a revenge killer: No.
    It's too slow,
    If you want a revenge killer then use a faster one such as:
    1. Jolteon (can be useful as it has electric resistence)
    2. Dugtrio (immune to electric)
    3. Starmie (probably the closest to Porygon there)

    In fact you already have gengar as a revenge killer :/
    If anything you just need an extremely strong one. Perhaps heatran? also have an immunity to electric. In fact i might even try heatran myself.

    See what you think of this team, it's based off of yours.

        Spoiler:- My "similar" team:


    Here is a fight i used with my team. It shows a few good switches, sadly the replay bugged so i couldn't get in replay format:
    Some of his pokemon are kinda jokey so it's nearly 4v6 (why he has ambipom/shedinja is beyond me)
        Spoiler:- Example fight:


    Let me know how it goes
    Hope my team gives you something to consider.

    What my team is missing:
    1. Taunt, although this is an offensive team (as yours was on first post, as 4 sweepers is offensive)
    2. Rapid spin (not needed on offensive teams)
    3. Status moves other than spore (as there's often a sleep clause rule, where only 1 of your opponents pokemon may be slept at a time), so i can't get all of the opponents pokemon with status problems (one of the solutions was TWave on tyranitar)

    I'm pretty sure it's weak to something as i haven't actually done an in depth report like i did on your original team on it.
    My Diamond Sandstorm BT squad:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=14238023 Streak: 50
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=556617 Streak: 47

    My White2 Super Single Subway Squad:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?598816 streak: 64 wins.

  5. #5
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    I really liked the way you set up the team, so I based these new team LARGELY after yours. Hope there aren't any copyrights, ect.

    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Keen Eye
    Impish
    252 HP/ 176 Def/ 80 SDef
    -Brave Bird
    -Roost
    -Whirlwind
    -Spikes

    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Levitate
    Mild/Modest
    4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Substitute

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Inner Focus
    Adamant
    80 Atk/ 252 Atk/ 76 Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Flamethrower
    -Superpower
    -ExtremeSpeed

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Torrent
    Relaxed
    248 HP/ 216 Def/ 44 SDef
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Punch
    -Roar

    Metagross @ Choice Scarf
    Clear Body
    Jolly
    252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
    -Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    -Thunder Punch
    -Explosion

    Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
    Sand Stream
    Sassy
    252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SDef
    -Crunch
    -Rest
    -Ice Beam
    -Stone Edge

    This team shares the issue of not being able to inflict status issues upon the opposing team, however it is amplified as I do not have the Spore your Breloom possesses. However, I feel like I have made much improvement with your help nonetheless. Any further suggestions?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    hopefully someone else can provide some advice, as getting it from one person all the time isn't great.

    Only real points i have is that you now have 2 defensive walls. Seems a bit overkill to me, could be replaced with something which attempts to spread status around their team, as metagross would LOVE to be against paralyzed pokemon.
    This was partly why i used an offensive swampert, it can take a few hits as well which is cool :P
    My Diamond Sandstorm BT squad:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=14238023 Streak: 50
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=556617 Streak: 47

    My White2 Super Single Subway Squad:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?598816 streak: 64 wins.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigheaded View Post
    hopefully someone else can provide some advice, as getting it from one person all the time isn't great.

    Only real points i have is that you now have 2 defensive walls. Seems a bit overkill to me, could be replaced with something which attempts to spread status around their team, as metagross would LOVE to be against paralyzed pokemon.
    This was partly why i used an offensive swampert, it can take a few hits as well which is cool :P
    Alright, sweet! Thanks for all of your help! I'll definitely take all of this into consideration and see about getting some more opinions with this revised team.

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