Community POTW #58

[Ttar's stone edge]

Missingno Master will not be happy Weezing was thrown out.

Chandelure@Air Balloon
Modest
Flash Fire/Shadow Tag
252 SpA 252 Spd 4 Def
Substitute
Pain Split
Fire Blast
Shadow Ball

Sub-split Chandelure. Set up a sub on something it resists. Fire off Shadow Balls and Fire Blasts, Pain Split when your low on health. With Chandy's low HP, you should be able to heal a lot while damaging the opponent.

I used to use this set, but air balloon is 100000 times better. Ive had a lot of success with the balloon because of all the earth power and quake. Set stays the same though

[Monster Guy]

^ Yeah, but I find the extra health lefties provide helpful.

[Blue Harvest]

This is annoying.

Don't worry, already infracted!

Countering Chandelure
Anything with better-than-average Speed, access to EQ, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Surf, Waterfall, Dark Pulse, Crunch, Shadow Ball, and/or Earth Power, and enough of the corresponding attack stat to use it will wreck Chand's chances of survival:
-Sharpedo, while underwhelming in comparison, has two Super-Effective STABs, Base 120 Attack, and Base 95 Speed.
-Kingdra quad-resists Fire, has better Speed, and can use either Surf or Waterfall to break you, especially with Rain support.
-Excadrill has better Speed and a huge Attack stat to EQ Chand' into submission.
-Krookodile, like Sharpedo, has 2 Super-Effective STABs, great Attack, and superior Speed, but also has access to 3 Super-Effective Types (third being Rock).
-Houndoom resists both of your STABs, carries STAB Dark Pulse, and has great Sp.Atk to use it.
-Haxorus resists Fire, has better Speed, great Attack, and access to EQ and Rock Slide/Stone Edge.
-Hydreigon is like Houndoom, but also has access to Surf.
-Salamence has tons of Move access and power.
-Flygon may give you some issue.
-Garchomp. 'Nuff said.
-Zoroark has better Speed, STAB Dark Pulse/Night Daze, and great Sp.Atk to use it.
-Mismagius has superior Speed, good Sp.Atk, and STAB Shadow Ball.
-Gengar: See Mismagius. Change "good" to "great."
-Cinccino, while underwhelming, has Technician Rock Blast, good Attack, and superior Speed.
-Floatzel is like Kingdra, except normal-resists Fire and Physical-based.
-Starmie has better Speed, Surf access, and good Sp.Atk.
-Alakazam: See Gengar. Remove "STAB" before Shadow Ball.
-Dugtrio can trap you back, has superior Speed, and STAB EQ.
-Weavile, while weak to Fire, has superior Speed, great Attack, and STAB Night Slash, plus Pressure can help its team out if it carries Protect.
-Aerodactyl: See Haxorus. Add "STAB" before Rock Slide/Stone Edge.
-Accelgor has great potential with Hidden Power (Water), commonly has Rain support, good Sp.Atk, and superior Speed.

Aside from having Shadow Tag potential and a huge Sp.Atk stat, how is Chandelure Uber-material? Tell me, please. Below-average HP and average Speed do not an Uber make, especially if it is weak to Stealth Rock. One potential Chandelure counter can also counter Wobbuffet and Garchomp if used right, and it's called Weavile.

Sorry, but most of the Pokemon you just listed are OHKOed by one of Chandelure's moves.

[Aurath8]

Chandelure was one of the scariest Pokemon to come at BWs reveal. At 145 it has the highest non-legendary Spatk in the game taking the position from Alakazam/Porygon-Z. It's got a unique Fire/Ghost type that is resisted only by a handful of type combinations not to mention you get 3 immunities with Flash Fire. However it has few flaws keeping it out of the top of OU. Stealth Rock hampers it's ability as a Choice User by knocking 25% off for each switch in. It's also lacking defensively. 60/90/90 is mediocre at best and the Ghost typing leaves it vulnerable to Pursuit. 80 Speed is alright but doesn't win any awards. Still, despite these setbacks, Chandelure's nuclear spatk nets it the position as one of the best Revenge killers around.

Flame Body: It means Chandelure can possibly take more hits but it's really less reliable compared to...

Flash Fire: You're immune to Fire and you get a 50% boost to Fire if you get hit by one. It's Chandy's best ability that's currently available. Eventually it will be outclassed by...

Shadow Tag: Yeah, the ability that got Wobbufet into Ubers, has been given to something with the highest non-legend Spatk. It turns you into the
perfect Revenge killer, allowing you to trap and choose what to KO without having to predict switches.

Chandelure@Choice Scarf
Modest/Timid
252 Spatk/252 Speed/4 HP
Flash Fire
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-Shadow Ball
-Energy Ball
-Hidden Power[Fighting/Ground/Ice]

imo, the definitive Chandelure set. One of the big problems with Chandy is its average speed. As always, the humble Choice Scarf remedies the issue. Fire Blast is a powerful and reliable STAB but Overheat better fits the hit-n-run style of Choice items. Shadow ball is your other STAB and pairs pretty well with your Fire STAB. Energy Ball hits bulky Waters such as Gastrodon for massive damage. For Hidden Power you have a choice. Fighting nails T-tar while Ground hits Heatran harder. The alternative is HP[Ice] for Dragons and Gliscor but on the whole you lack coverage over important counters.

Counters
While the Fire/Ghost typing is good offensively, certain Pokemon do resist the combo. Namely Heatran and Tyranitar. Well, BalloonTran and ChopleTar since you could be on the end of a nasty Hidden Power. Porygon2 with Trace gets a special mention for being immune to both Fire and Ghost, as long as the opponent has Flash Fire(they will). Empoleon has a wonderful SpDef stat and Hydro Pump. Hydreigon's and Houndoom's Dark Pulse gets rid of it too. Lots of faster Scarfers can revenge it easily, Landorus, Terakion, Rotom-W, Flygon, Politoed. And lets not forget the bane of spattackers everywhere, Chansey and Blissey.

[Ilan]

you should note Blissey isn't always a counter 252 special attack life orb chandelure in the sun vs. standard blissey set (252/0) is a 2Hko after stealth rock damage
If not using the life orb it is a 3Hko and choice specs/Calm mind don't even need the SR damage.

In short: chandelure's specs/+1 fire blast in the sun is strong enough to 2HKO blissey which shows how awesome is chandelure.

[Gray™]

you should note Blissey isn't always a counter 252 special attack life orb chandelure in the sun vs. standard blissey set (252/0) is a 2Hko after stealth rock damage
If not using the life orb it is a 3Hko and choice specs/Calm mind don't even need the SR damage.

In short: chandelure's specs/+1 fire blast in the sun is strong enough to 2HKO blissey which shows how awesome is chandelure.

so if both its spatk and strongest move are bosted and blissey takes damage on the switch in chandelure still cant ohko?

[ParaChomp]

people, shadow tag is unreleased, stop posting sets with it -_-

Since we're not like Smogon, for every Pokemon of the Week, we do every possible set including those that are available in future events.

[Scarecrow606]

Finally! A Pokemon I can luuve!
Nah, just kidding. Chandelure is awesome though. Its typing gives it som great coverage and OK stats all around.

My Chandelure:
Abillity: Flash Fire
Nature: Modest
Item: Leftovers

Moveset:
Will-O-Wisp
Energy Ball
Flamethrower
Shadow Ball

This is my moveset, and it works pretty well. Will-O-Wisp is there to accompany Energy Ball in wrecking attacking Rock/Ground types as they should be considered a real threat. Energy Ball also gives a coverage when it comes to Water-types..
Flamethrower > Fire Blast due to accuracy, pluss the fact that Flamethrower has more PP.
Shadow Ball is there for general damage and STAB.

In generall, I really love this pokemon and it has a permanent spot on my White team. ^^

[Smugleaf-pwns-all]

Chandelure @ Leftovers (Flame Body)
Substitute - Will-O-Wisp - Hex - Flamethrower
252 HP - 80 Defense - 172 Sp.Defense - 4 Speed (Bold)

it may not have the best defenses, but if you get this to work, it'll give the opponent a taste of hell. hex (if opponent is statused) has a higher BP than shadow ball, plus who doesn't love burning physical hitters? flamethrower for STAB.

[Storm Wendjule]

Although it's been done, I want to contribute this week! It's been a while since the PotW has been one I actually use (or will use)

Straightforward Murder

Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Modest (+Sp.Atk, -Atk)
Item: Fire/Grass/Psychic/Ghost Gem
Moveset:
Shadow Ball
Psychic
Flamethrower
Energy Ball
EVs: 4 Sp.Def/252 Sp.Atk/252 Spd

This is the moveset I use with Celeste, my Chandelure, and it covers a heck of a lot. However, you could be walled easily by a Houndoom, who resists three of her moves and is immune to one.
Energy Ball/Shadow Ball catches super-effective hits on Jellicent, who is one of Chandelure's worst nightmares.

That's all I've got, but I'll try to contribute again and more often.

[Pika ruler]

Chandelure @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Modest
EV's: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 SDef or 4 HP
Moves
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Shadow Ball
Psychic
Energy Ball

This set is pretty much explains itselfs. The fire type move for STAB, Shadow Ball to take Psychics and other Ghosts, Energy Ball for Jellicent, and Psychic for Fighting types.

[Monster Guy]

Chandelure @ Leftovers (Flame Body)
Substitute - Will-O-Wisp - Hex - Flamethrower
252 HP - 80 Defense - 172 Sp.Defense - 4 Speed (Bold)

it may not have the best defenses, but if you get this to work, it'll give the opponent a taste of hell. hex (if opponent is statused) has a higher BP than shadow ball, plus who doesn't love burning physical hitters? flamethrower for STAB.

You're better off using Shadow Ball twice. It'll do more damage than using one turn to burn them, then Hex them in the next turn, assuming you survive long enough to Hex.

Also, why do so many people insist on running Psychic on it? It doesn't provide any useful coverage. A neutral attack from it will deal with Poisons and Fightings just fine.

[floatzel98]

It's actually a lot better to run HP fighting with it. Or at least something like HP water or ice.

[arashik]

ummm, i was gonna post a proper reply but i got a bit much i need to do, spriting and all

umm, chandelure, its a, umm, good ghost fire pokemon.

i used chandelure in my last wifi battle and it pwnd most of my rivals team. the moves used were as follows:-
~shadow ball~
~calm mind~
~will-o-wisp~
~enerfy ball~

umm, the natuer: bold
252def/252spdef/4hp
item leftovers

yeah. shadowball gets stab and is good. calm mind for boost. will-o-wisp for burning. energy ball for getting waters.

IMO its more a fire type than a ghost.

hoping for wheezing next time!

EDIT: also, i need someone to answer my question; what should i restart, blue or red? pm me plz!

[jstinftw!]

I'm a little bit surprised no one's turned this one in. I guess mainly because its primary purpose is for Double Battles, or to Stomp Trick Room teams, but I'd say it was pretty good. Worth considering?

Chandelure (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef (for TR, else Speed instead of HP)
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Imprison
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Heat Wave/Overheat/Flamethrower

Compared to all the Pokemon being run, Chandelure could be pretty dangerous in a Trick Room team, as well as on a non-Trick Room Team. Chandelure can also be used as a counter Trick Room monster, although I guess that's not so common in OU.

Imprison+Trick Room stomps on TR teams, while the Focus Sash promises at least one more turn (beware Revenge Killers). Heat Wave is the standard for Doubles, although others could be used for Singles.

[Kraleck]

Those are revenge killers.. chandelure can easily switch into ferrothorn/scizor/choiced fighting/normal/fire moves use flame charge/calm mind and subtitute... and then what can switch into it? my answer is absolutly nothing..

none of the mokemons you noted are actually checks they might be a revenge killer but no counter.. and 90 defenses with 60HP isn't something to laugh about it is decent enough to survive an SE move sometimes...

OH-OH is also weak to SR your point is? weavile is awful as a chandeulure counter.. it switch's into a fire blast and there isn't a weavile...

sharpedo dies to energy ball
excadrill dies to fire blast and is uber anyway
kingdra still takes damage from shadow ball but it might counter
krookodile-fire blast KO

and exc.. houndoom is a good counter though but thwe rest you are just assuming they switched in safely and most people... don't keep chandelure on revenge killers.

Quick question: Once Shadow Tag is available, how exactly are they all switching into one of Chand's Moves? They'd come in off of a KO'd ally in said case. All of those listed were mostly for Shadow Tag Chand' countering, which, as previous posts show, would be the main usage of Chand' once DW Abilities are available for 5th Gen Pokemon. Revenge killing would become standard fare for fighting Chandelure.

Before then, I agree with your logic. Switching into a Flame Body/Flash Fire Chandelure is risky, if not suicidal. You'd need precision forethought, knowledge of Chand's Item, a way to shrug off its Specials, and a way to counter its replacement if it switches out.

Plus, 60 HP and 90 defense stats are merely okay when combined. I look at Base 70 as average HP and Base 80 as average for non-HP stats, so Chand' has sub-average HP and above average Defense and Sp.Def. Basically, Chand' is only okay defensively.

"Only okay defensively" doesn't really cut it for me when you're weak to 5 of the most common offensive Move Types, especially with average Speed and one of those 5 Types being Rock. That is why, to me, it's a mistake to say Chandelure belongs in Ubers at all. It's fine where it is.

[zerofield]

Quick question: Once Shadow Tag is available, how exactly are they all switching into one of Chand's Moves? They'd come in off of a KO'd ally in said case. All of those listed were mostly for Shadow Tag Chand' countering, which, as previous posts show, would be the main usage of Chand' once DW Abilities are available for 5th Gen Pokemon. Revenge killing would become standard fare for fighting Chandelure.

Before then, I agree with your logic. Switching into a Flame Body/Flash Fire Chandelure is risky, if not suicidal. You'd need precision forethought, knowledge of Chand's Item, a way to shrug off its Specials, and a way to counter its replacement if it switches out.

Plus, 60 HP and 90 defense stats are merely okay when combined. I look at Base 70 as average HP and Base 80 as average for non-HP stats, so Chand' has sub-average HP and above average Defense and Sp.Def. Basically, Chand' is only okay defensively.

"Only okay defensively" doesn't really cut it for me when you're weak to 5 of the most common offensive Move Types, especially with average Speed and one of those 5 Types being Rock. That is why, to me, it's a mistake to say Chandelure belongs in Ubers at all. It's fine where it is.

Chandelure will have a one-way ticket to Ubers once shadow tag is released, due to how horrible broken either setup variants or simply scarf revenge killers become w/ shadow tag. Effectively, as these are OU analyses, everything said here will become irrelevant once shadow tag is actually out.

[pikadon92]

Though, to be fair, my previous set's pretty much all litwick can do in LC. Though you can go ahead and try to do better if you like.

So here is my latest contribution:

MEANWHILE, in middle cup
Lampent @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/4Def/252 Sp.Att
Modest Nature
-Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
-Pain Split
-Hex
-Fire Blast

So here is the first set for the middle line, lampent. Modest for extra power, air balloon to give it more immunities to switch into.

The first move slot is for support. While Toxic gives you a sweeping advantage, Will-O-wisp lets you survive physical moves easier.

Pain Split is for recover, and Hex can be used together with move slot #1. Fire Blast is for another STAB power.

For EVs, I made it defensive since its speed is not great (55 base).


Trick Room Sweeper
Lampent @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/4Def/252 Sp.Att
Quiet Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Energy Ball
-Psychic/Hidden Power [Ground]
-Fire Blast

With 95 base sp.att, it'll make a pretty good special sweeper actually. Just make it the slowest and set trick room.

If you can have shadow tag, use it to make it an instant revenge killer.


As a weaker chandelure, lampent makes a decent sweeper, but in a different way. As mentioned earlier, 95 sp attack is exceptable, while 55 base speed makes it among the slowest pokemon in the middle cup tier. That's why I mentioned earlier that it needs trick room support.

Other options for lampent includes:
-Trick Room to set up itself.
-Overheat if you want to make it a support Pokemon. Use it together with fire gem for extra power.
-Night Shade and Pain Split may be used togather with Overheat since their power won't be hindered.
-Eviolite is not such a great option for lampent here. It only boosts its defences by 1.3, and it has up to about 5 weakness to be exploited with.


Yeah. I think that is all for now. I only want to see a double pre-evo corner......

[Atratus]

I think Houndoom really is the best conter. It is immune to Fire Blast, resists Shadow Ball and Energy Ball and is immune to Psychic. It only fears Hidden Power, which not all Chandelure sets carry. It can come on scarved set and scare him away, maybe even take the Flash Fire Boost and set up with Nasty Plot on the switch. It can outspeed Life Orb and Air Balloon sets and strike with Dark Pulse. Hell(gar), it can even run Pursuit and mess Chandelure for good.

[Zachmac]

I think Houndoom really is the best conter. It is immune to Fire Blast, resists Shadow Ball and Energy Ball and is immune to Psychic. It only fears Hidden Power, which not all Chandelure sets carry. It can come on scarved set and scare him away, maybe even take the Flash Fire Boost and set up with Nasty Plot on the switch. It can outspeed Life Orb and Air Balloon sets and strike with Dark Pulse. Hell(gar), it can even run Pursuit and mess Chandelure for good.

And of course Heatran if you're fighting in OU. That also resist Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, and Psychic, while having an immunity to fire. It's got more bulk as well, and is generally more viable in OU. Though it does fear it's HP fighting, they usually carry choice sets.