Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: VGC Desert Storm

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    15

    Default VGC Desert Storm

    after trying and failing at making a VGC good stuff team i decided to make a middle ground sand team which can work really well with or without the Storm are they're currently doing quiet well atm






    Metagross @ Occa Berry
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch
    - Meteor Mash
    - Protect

    metagross is my anti hail and sand summoners, bullet punch is for prioity, MM is for a harder slower version, and EQ is for other metas which i can out speed with my 24 speed ev's



    Tyranitar (M) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    My Storm bringer, outrage gets rid of dragons, crunch is for psychic and ghost types, EQ is for other T-tars, and protect is for extra storm damage. might change chople berry for Focus Sash and give tran choice scarf


    Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fake Out
    - Protect
    - Ice Beam
    - Giga Drain

    since my team is has a big rain weakness i decided to add in my most hated rain mon, since fake out is big this year i decided to add it to ludic, I-beam is for flying/dragon/ground mon, giga is for water/ other sand teams as well as keeping ludic alive for a bit, wasn't to sure about abillites as whether to go for Swift Swim or Rain Dish, and leftovers is to recover residual sand damage.



    Heatran (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Protect

    heatran is in to take meta's fire damage, since i'm running a slow tran i gave him focus sash so as to survive hitmontops mach punch or other fast hiting fighting type moves, EP is for chanlures. Dragon pulse is for when i switch into a dragon attack and survive



    Zapdos @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Discharge
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Signal Beam

    Zapdos is my utility user with discharge is for stab while not affecting many of my team, heatwave for hail teams and sun abusers, HP ice to remove dragons and rock/ground/grass. signal beam is to get rid of Ludicolo's and psychic types



    Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Protect

    Chomp is my resident dragon type and sand abuser, being able to have a hightened evasion in a storm, i went for the basic set that does it's job with most of his moves explaining them sleves



    was think of going for Mence over Chomp with this set:


    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Brick Break

    with brick break for ice types that get in the way of mence's sweep
    My White FC : 3396-2827-7492
    PO Name: TheFox
    Time Zone: GMT+0

    Able to EV mon in under 24hrs
    Can also Ev erase as well
    PM for more details

    RMT : http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=560308

    my fav mon:

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Because of Garchomp's permission to enter VGCs, Ice Shard is becoming a very popular move. That in mind, I'd discourage running two pokemon that are 4x weak to it. To add insult to injury, Ice Shard can hurt Zapdos with repeated abuse (I'm aware of the berry). The fact that the popular Ice Shard choice is Mamoswine. It also gives Tyranitar, Metagross and Heatran reason to be jumpy, though they have options to counter it well. If it helps, Hitmontop is currently scoring very high in popularity to pair with Zapdos. Intimidate abuse and Mach Punch are two reasons it's seeing popularity.

    I know Ludicolo is neat and all, but It's use should really be limited to rain teams. In a 4 on 4, switching isn't a hugely common problem and Tyranitar has the lower speed to USUALLY win the weather war with the toed. I'd honestly consider some other bulkier water types like Jelli for the role here. Water Absorb can be a blessing giving your team a means to stop water types in their tracks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycksta View Post
    My black heart bleeds.
    ~Life is an empty void. Here... have a cookie :3

    I have claimed Parasect! When life gives you lemons.... STAB them in the eye!

    Be sure to follow up on StriatonRadio. Get a laugh while we all talk Pokemon! Links to podcast are on the page! Note that StriatonRadio is currently looking for suggestions and feedback!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    5 hours behind UTC
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentOmen View Post
    I know Ludicolo is neat and all, but It's use should really be limited to rain teams. In a 4 on 4, switching isn't a hugely common problem and Tyranitar has the lower speed to USUALLY win the weather war with the toed. I'd honestly consider some other bulkier water types like Jelli for the role here. Water Absorb can be a blessing giving your team a means to stop water types in their tracks.
    You still have to consider the fact that he gets STAB on both Water and, more importantly, Grass without breeding an Ice weakness. Base 70 Speed with about 100 Speed EVs invested is enough to outrun Base 80s such as Chandelure, which is all you really need Ludicolo to outrun, and his presence itself is enough to discourage people from using DrizzleToed. People will also fear Scald if you choose to use it over the one-time Fake Out or the inaccurate Hydro Pump.

    A good rain counter and a Grass type w/o an Ice or Fire weakness. Those are key advantages that Ludicolo have.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    You still have to consider the fact that he gets STAB on both Water and, more importantly, Grass without breeding an Ice weakness. Base 70 Speed with about 100 Speed EVs invested is enough to outrun Base 80s such as Chandelure, which is all you really need Ludicolo to outrun, and his presence itself is enough to discourage people from using DrizzleToed. People will also fear Scald if you choose to use it over the one-time Fake Out or the inaccurate Hydro Pump.

    A good rain counter and a Grass type w/o an Ice or Fire weakness. Those are key advantages that Ludicolo have.
    I'm considering all of that, but Ludicolo still has one solid issue. It's not the bulkiest water poke on the block. I find it only really gets utility in a rain setting. If your opponent isn't setting up rain, it's use is marginal at best. It just feels it's sole role on this team is if you see a politoed. Meanwhile, Jellicent has the bulk and the ability to check some of the problems Ludicolo can't.

    I've been trying teams with Ludicolo too. I've just found that the majority of threats that aren't rain can counter it pretty easily. Tornadus, Thunderus, Volcarona (don't ask me why, but people seem to love this thing with Rage powder -_-). And yes, Volcarona is a counter. Without rain, Volcarona can KO it with Bug Buzz (because it's outsped).

    I'm not going to profess Ludicolo as the worst choice ever. I'm just saying "there's better for THIS team".
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycksta View Post
    My black heart bleeds.
    ~Life is an empty void. Here... have a cookie :3

    I have claimed Parasect! When life gives you lemons.... STAB them in the eye!

    Be sure to follow up on StriatonRadio. Get a laugh while we all talk Pokemon! Links to podcast are on the page! Note that StriatonRadio is currently looking for suggestions and feedback!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    5 hours behind UTC
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentOmen View Post
    I'm considering all of that, but Ludicolo still has one solid issue. It's not the bulkiest water poke on the block. I find it only really gets utility in a rain setting. If your opponent isn't setting up rain, it's use is marginal at best. It just feels it's sole role on this team is if you see a politoed. Meanwhile, Jellicent has the bulk and the ability to check some of the problems Ludicolo can't.

    I've been trying teams with Ludicolo too. I've just found that the majority of threats that aren't rain can counter it pretty easily. Tornadus, Thunderus, Volcarona (don't ask me why, but people seem to love this thing with Rage powder -_-). And yes, Volcarona is a counter. Without rain, Volcarona can KO it with Bug Buzz (because it's outsped).

    I'm not going to profess Ludicolo as the worst choice ever. I'm just saying "there's better for THIS team".
    Funny. I was just talking about Rage Powder Volcarona on Smogon the other day and why he's so popular.

    Either way, you bring up some truly viable points about Ludicolo. Guess the only reason you'll ever see it is to check anti-rain Gastrodon, which is a bit of crippling over-specialization, something you want to avoid. What would you suggest replacing it with? Abomasnow?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    Funny. I was just talking about Rage Powder Volcarona on Smogon the other day and why he's so popular.

    Either way, you bring up some truly viable points about Ludicolo. Guess the only reason you'll ever see it is to check anti-rain Gastrodon, which is a bit of crippling over-specialization, something you want to avoid. What would you suggest replacing it with? Abomasnow?
    nah, Abomasnow with hail giving blizzards perfect accuracy with 2 pokemon 4x weak and another 2 x weak doesn't sound too viable. I've always been kinda curious about Cradily in a sandstorm with storm drain.... hmmm. But it's viability is kinda low. A Thunderus with HP Grass can be a terrifying water counter. Add the fact it is a prankster pokemon can really mess up a few teams. Shame it's rather fragile and this team already has Zapdos and it only furthers this teams problem with Ice Types.

    This team is rather difficult to really find a lot of viable counters. I just find it difficult to ignore that this team has a huge crater of a weakness in Ice attacks. Add to the fact that just about any water type can sport Ice Beam / Blizzard and this team has other concerns altogether. *Sigh* I think priority 1 = pick 1 dragon and replace the other.
    Last edited by SilentOmen; 6th February 2012 at 9:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycksta View Post
    My black heart bleeds.
    ~Life is an empty void. Here... have a cookie :3

    I have claimed Parasect! When life gives you lemons.... STAB them in the eye!

    Be sure to follow up on StriatonRadio. Get a laugh while we all talk Pokemon! Links to podcast are on the page! Note that StriatonRadio is currently looking for suggestions and feedback!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    5 hours behind UTC
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentOmen View Post
    nah, Abomasnow with hail giving blizzards perfect accuracy with 2 pokemon 4x weak and another 2 x weak doesn't sound too viable. I've always been kinda curious about Cradily in a sandstorm with storm drain.... hmmm. But it's viability is kinda low. A Thunderus with HP Grass can be a terrifying water counter. Add the fact it is a prankster pokemon can really mess up a few teams. Shame it's rather fragile and this team already has Zapdos and it only furthers this teams problem with Ice Types.

    This team is rather difficult to really find a lot of viable counters. I just find it difficult to ignore that this team has a huge crater of a weakness in Ice attacks. Add to the fact that just about any water type can sport Ice Beam / Blizzard and this team has other concerns altogether. *Sigh* I think priority 1 = pick 1 dragon and replace the other.
    How about Dry Skin Toxicroak? He gets both Fake Out AND Drain Punch, can learn Sucker Punch, and thanks to Dry Skin, he's immune to all Water attacks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    How about Dry Skin Toxicroak? He gets both Fake Out AND Drain Punch, can learn Sucker Punch, and thanks to Dry Skin, he's immune to all Water attacks.
    It is a fair option if you can work around it's problems. I can see where it can work. I just don't much like that prediction is key with Sucker punch. Admittedly, my hesitation for Toxicroak comes from my own neutral attitude towards it. It's a fair pokemon. I just don't like that it's hit hard by both Heat Wave and Earthquake (two of the biggest spread attacks running). I'd say "oh, but it's so weak to psychic" but I'm aware that's the niche that is Toxicroak. "Go ahead, use Psychic, I've got a little sucker punch just waiting to take a chunk out of your flimsy defense stat". Although, it will want to watch out for the likes of Gothitelle who is finding a little more popularity in VGC thanks to it's bulkier defense than most psychic types. But Gothitelle isn't a large scale problem.

    Meh, I can see it's use. Talking it out kinda has me in a neutral agreement. Just neutralize Heat Wave and Earthquake somehow and I'm on the bandwagon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycksta View Post
    My black heart bleeds.
    ~Life is an empty void. Here... have a cookie :3

    I have claimed Parasect! When life gives you lemons.... STAB them in the eye!

    Be sure to follow up on StriatonRadio. Get a laugh while we all talk Pokemon! Links to podcast are on the page! Note that StriatonRadio is currently looking for suggestions and feedback!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    5 hours behind UTC
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Seeing as most of your team is based on speed and power, you may benefit a lot from teaching Zapdos how to use Tailwind over Signal Beam. Signal Beam won't really offer much in the department of coverage when the pokemon using it is also using both Heat Wave and HP Ice. I know Signal Beam has 5 extra points of power and has a miniscule 10% chance of causing confusion, but the move itself isn't game-breaking; also, this might help.

    About Salamence, with all the Intimidate support running around, you might be better off using a Special Attacking version of the pokemon.

    You've already got your Fire and Metagross Steel weaknesses covered, so it might be better for you to replace Metagross' Earthquake with something else. Maybe Zen Headbutt for 2nd STAB and coverage against Hitmontop Fighting types.

    TTar is much more useful with Rock Slide instead of Outrage, which is very unpredictable in terms of who it's hitting, which is probably another reason why people are using Special Attacker Dragons more often.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    FL+KY, USA
    Posts
    237

    Default

    I think I like Mence over Chomp....he brings more coverage and gives you a second 'mon that's immune to EQ. Although if you do that I would suggest losing Zap's discharge as the only one left immune to that is Ttar and his sandstorm will get your bird. Maybe Tbolt or Volt Switch?

    Signal Beam hits darks, too, and with coverage like that bird has you might consider Expert Belt for Zap. Weak to Ice, yada yada...also weak to Rock Slide which promises to be rampant at VGC.

    It's different...I like different Good Luck!
    One of the Proud 25% that level up legally.

    Claimed: Top Gun Anthem (March '09)
    Banette 30 Sept '11

        Spoiler:- Brags:



    Top 3,000 2012 International WiFi
    Spring 2012 SE US Regionals: 1-7 TCG, 2-6 VGC (warstory coming soon)
    Found the Collo Bonus Disc @ GS
    PGL: FLPokemom

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemom View Post
    I think I like Mence over Chomp....he brings more coverage and gives you a second 'mon that's immune to EQ. Although if you do that I would suggest losing Zap's discharge as the only one left immune to that is Ttar and his sandstorm will get your bird. Maybe Tbolt or Volt Switch?

    Signal Beam hits darks, too, and with coverage like that bird has you might consider Expert Belt for Zap. Weak to Ice, yada yada...also weak to Rock Slide which promises to be rampant at VGC.

    It's different...I like different Good Luck!
    A fair point about the discharge, but to further the criticism, even TTar isn't immune to it. Rock and Dark, only ground types are immune.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycksta View Post
    My black heart bleeds.
    ~Life is an empty void. Here... have a cookie :3

    I have claimed Parasect! When life gives you lemons.... STAB them in the eye!

    Be sure to follow up on StriatonRadio. Get a laugh while we all talk Pokemon! Links to podcast are on the page! Note that StriatonRadio is currently looking for suggestions and feedback!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    FL+KY, USA
    Posts
    237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentOmen View Post
    A fair point about the discharge, but to further the criticism, even TTar isn't immune to it. Rock and Dark, only ground types are immune.
    I did say that, didn't I? Sorry...been looking at so many Rhyhorns over the last few days I got my rocks mixed up. For some reason I have a mental block that keeps making me think of Ttar as being Dk/Grnd instead of Dk/Rk :X
    One of the Proud 25% that level up legally.

    Claimed: Top Gun Anthem (March '09)
    Banette 30 Sept '11

        Spoiler:- Brags:



    Top 3,000 2012 International WiFi
    Spring 2012 SE US Regionals: 1-7 TCG, 2-6 VGC (warstory coming soon)
    Found the Collo Bonus Disc @ GS
    PGL: FLPokemom

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Storybookland
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Metagross, Heatran, and Garchomp can handle other t-tars. Give T-tar rock slide or Stone Edge and take advantage of his dual STABS. It'll also help cover Zapdos' weaknesses.
    Just a thought
    You see I am simply one hell of a Nobody

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFox View Post



    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 4 Def / 180 SDef / 28 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch
    - Meteor Mash
    - Protect

    Standard Metagross in VGC. It hits hard enough to Latios & most Dragon-type Pokemon with few EVs in Attack. Maximizing EVs in Attack won't guarantee OHKO to Dragon-type Pokemon so give more EVs to Defense and Special Defense.



    Tyranitar (M) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 68 Def / 80 SDef / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Low Kick
    - Rock Slide
    - Protect

    From skimming through your Tyranitar, I see that it's missing Rock Slide. Rock Slide is Tyranitar's main weapon. It can attack both opponent's Pokemon and has 30% of flinching them. EVs are given to survive from Terrakion's Close Combat with 4+ boost in Attack, Conkeldurr's Mach Punch with 2+ boost in Attack or with Flame Orb activated, and Modest Abomasnow's Grass Knot.


    Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 28 HP / 60 Def / 164 SAtk / 76 Def / 180 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Fake Out
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Giga Drain / Grass Knot

    Calm nature is easier for me to calculate EV spreads, I've decided to go for Calm nature. Stats won't change with Modest nature as long as you give EVs correctly. Only noobs or beginners thinks that nature changes the stats despite EVs given. As you can tell from given EVs, it's main role is to absorb HP from opponent. You can also use Ludicolo as Fake Out lead.


    Heatran (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - HP Ice
    - Earth Power / Toxic
    - Protect

    Looks good but go for Hidden Power Ice instead of Dragon Pulse. I've tested it and Dragon Pulse didn't do much damage to Dragon-type Pokemon. Aim for 4x weakness.


    Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 74 SAtk / 20 SDef / 116 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Discharge / Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Detect

    I think defensive Zapdos works better in VGC. EVs are spread to survive from commonly used Pokemon but since I'm lazy, I'll shortcut all description.



    Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry / Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Protect

    Looks good but use Dragon Claw instead. Outrage chooses attack target randomly so Garchomp may attack opponent's Pokemon you weren't aiming for.



    was think of going for Mence over Chomp with this set:


    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hydro Pump
    - Heat Wave
    - Dragon Pulse / HP Flying

    I've never seen physical Salamence in VGC. Salamence works better as special sweeper in VGC. Intimidate will lower opponent's attack by one stage. This can help if your Pokemon has low Defense stats and needs to survive. If you are running HP Flying, EV spread must be 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spe.
    I'm rating your team based on my experience from past few years of VGC, last chance qualifiers, Worlds, and double battle random matchup in B&W. I will not be participating in this year's VGC due to schooling.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    15

    Default

    @Ramune you were quite correct around t-tar that defensive set up
    decided to swap tran for a scarf'd Typhlosion

    Typhlosion (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Eruption
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast
    - Protect
    My White FC : 3396-2827-7492
    PO Name: TheFox
    Time Zone: GMT+0

    Able to EV mon in under 24hrs
    Can also Ev erase as well
    PM for more details

    RMT : http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=560308

    my fav mon:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •