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Thread: What if Game Freak increased the BST of some old mons...

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROFLMAO View Post
    Arbok, Quagsire, Tauros and Lapras
    already good enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by britishlanguage View Post
    already good enough.
    by that you mean, already good enough to be NU? because that's where most are. In any since though, I think BST raising will not happen, evo's are much more plausible imo.

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    maybe i'm biased, but i've always thought Arcanine's Base 95 in Speed was pretty stingy. considering it's known for it's awesome speed according to Dex entries, & yet it can't outrun a Luvdisc? boosting that to say at least 110 could possibly bring him into more OU teams. i think he'd still be mainly UU because of the typing, but his speed is definitely in need of revising.
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    I'd say raising the base stat totals of Arcanine and Volcarona to 600 wouldn't be an unreasonable decision, seeing as they are already more legendary-like than most pseudo-legendary Pokémon in my opinion.
    This is a battle. Of course it's gonna be unfair. That which is called 'battle' was a monster originally born of unfairness and intolerance. I can't stand that guy. I can beat that guy. I can't forgive that guy. We make enemies for all sorts of reasons, and from the moment you make an enemy, until one of you draws his last breath - you're in a battle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokémon Trainer R View Post
    I'd say raising the base stat totals of Arcanine and Volcarona to 600 wouldn't be an unreasonable decision, seeing as they are already more legendary-like than most pseudo-legendary Pokémon in my opinion.
    Volcarona is SO already good enough as it is. I'll agree that Arcanine needs more speed though.
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    Volcarona is indeed already very good, but I still think that increasing its base stat total to 600 would neither be unreasonable considering its legendary-like nature, nor make it "broken" by any means.
    This is a battle. Of course it's gonna be unfair. That which is called 'battle' was a monster originally born of unfairness and intolerance. I can't stand that guy. I can beat that guy. I can't forgive that guy. We make enemies for all sorts of reasons, and from the moment you make an enemy, until one of you draws his last breath - you're in a battle.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatchMaster View Post
    Pokemon like Seismitoad (A Pokemon who's potential I thought was wasted) could become more usable. Bastiodon could even become more usable, with increased attack stats.
    Ya seismitoad should be more bulky in my opinion if only to make it different from Swampert, Gastrodon and Quagsire.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyjoe5000 View Post
    Really, many pokemon deserve better BST or even evolution, but among these I believe is Castform and Bannette
    Bannette could use a better move pool and some more bulk Castform actually just needs an upgrade to focast maybe boosting it base stats while in the weather and having different boost in each type of weather.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemonpal7 View Post
    And make the game incompatible with previous gens? No thanks. If they need better BST, it would be better to have them an evolution. Some Pokemon just don't have the stats to be viable, so you just have to live with it.
    Was red, blue and yellow incompatible with gold silver and crystal? No because they had the same stat raising system even though gold silver and crystal added a whole new stat(it split Special into S.atk and S.def.) Of course they swapped to the much simpler EV/IV system for the 3rd gen games so that ended the backward compatibility for a bit. They would just have it so next gen games would upgrade the stats when the pokemon are transfered.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Wallrein View Post
    by that you mean, already good enough to be NU? because that's where most are. In any since though, I think BST raising will not happen, evo's are much more plausible imo.
    Arbok needs an upgrade in stats but Quagsire is unique due to unaware(which lets you use it in OU i you want), Tauros needs a bit more S.def and maybe some more atk but it really only needs egg move and a better move pool(Miltank should let you get Tauros when you breed it like Volbeat from Illumise.) Lapras only flaw is the ice typing which needs to be buffed with some new resistance(water, grass, bug, and ground would be good.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokémon Trainer R View Post
    Volcarona is indeed already very good, but I still think that increasing its base stat total to 600 would neither be unreasonable considering its legendary-like nature, nor make it "broken" by any means.
    Volcarona could use some more Def but they could always take that out of S.def and give it some more Hp

    Every Rodent based pokemon, Weak early bug pokemon, weak early bird pokemon, and just outclassed fully evolved pokemon either need a BST upgrade or an Evolution.
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  8. #83
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    While not exactly what you are referring to, increasing the BST of a pokemon, I have always felt that there was one Pokemon who could use another evolution in order to make it more powerful.

    That pokemon being Raichu. Yeah, yeah, I know, Raichu already has three stages, and thus cannot have another evolution. But this is Pikachu's line we're talking about. Pikachu is the icon of the entire series, and several attempts have been made to make it more viable, even giving it arguably the best item in the game that only works for it (light ball). If any pokemon in the entire series deserves a 4 stage evolution, it's Pikachu. And considering that Pichu is classified as a baby pokemon, while Pikachu is the base form, I would personally really like to see this.

    The Pokemon in question (I have a design idea in my head, but that isn't what I'm here to pitch), would have a 600 BST, due to it being the only 4th evolution in the game and the ultimate form of Pikachu. It's stats would be as follows.

    Hp: 90

    Att: 90

    Def: 80

    S. Att: 120

    S. Def: 80

    Spe: 140

    I'd call it Daichu...
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    Lightbulb maybe...

    it would be great to use the earlier pokemon from kanto and johtoh, with new BSTs. but it wouldn't be long before someone starts complaining about it.

    i recently read through articles discussing a theoretical new metagame. it was discussed between members of seribi.net, shadowdown and smogon university. that instead of adjusting BSTs of certain individual pokemon, it would be more beneficial to establish a standard, balanced BST for all pokemon. meaning that all pokemon will have relatively a solid, competitive and most importantly fair capabilities in battle.

    but some of u might ask wont that make everyone the same?
    no, not really. this is because what makes a pokemon special and different is not how much the total stats r but how they r distributed in to each base stat.

    HP, ATK, DEF, SP.ATK, SP.DEF AND SPEED.

    a good example of this would be chansey. chansey would have its BST roughly within the same range as a wobbufett. but still fill its wall requirements, because no matter wht its DEF would still be one of its lowest quality's. meaning it would get the least of its BST. the majority goes into its SP.DEF and SP.ATK...so in the end the stat that really matters the most is a pokemon HP (which is a stat that is determined separately from the other five, but is still influenced by EVs and IVs). then u add ur EVs and IVs and nature, abilities, items and attacks. for it is these that truly make pokemon wht they r.

    so in conclusion if this metagame were to be proposed battles would be more entertaining, competitive and fair. u get to use pokemon that u always wanted to use but couldn't because they were considered weak but with this they have a chance. i would love to see a butterfree take on a garchomp, it may still lose, but it will at least put up a half way decent fight. basically it will be like the battles u have at the beginning of ur journey after u get ur starter pokemon

    rant ended lol

    p.s. this would make evolite totaly banned!!!

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    It would be great if many Pokemon got BST increases so most Pokemon would be equal in strength and keep it balanced as long as don't stuff it up, it would add more diversity to the metagame

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrax12 View Post
    it would be great to use the earlier pokemon from kanto and johtoh, with new BSTs. but it wouldn't be long before someone starts complaining about it.

    i recently read through articles discussing a theoretical new metagame. it was discussed between members of seribi.net, shadowdown and smogon university. that instead of adjusting BSTs of certain individual pokemon, it would be more beneficial to establish a standard, balanced BST for all pokemon. meaning that all pokemon will have relatively a solid, competitive and most importantly fair capabilities in battle.

    but some of u might ask wont that make everyone the same?
    no, not really. this is because what makes a pokemon special and different is not how much the total stats r but how they r distributed in to each base stat.

    HP, ATK, DEF, SP.ATK, SP.DEF AND SPEED.

    a good example of this would be chansey. chansey would have its BST roughly within the same range as a wobbufett. but still fill its wall requirements, because no matter wht its DEF would still be one of its lowest quality's. meaning it would get the least of its BST. the majority goes into its SP.DEF and SP.ATK...so in the end the stat that really matters the most is a pokemon HP (which is a stat that is determined separately from the other five, but is still influenced by EVs and IVs). then u add ur EVs and IVs and nature, abilities, items and attacks. for it is these that truly make pokemon wht they r.

    so in conclusion if this metagame were to be proposed battles would be more entertaining, competitive and fair. u get to use pokemon that u always wanted to use but couldn't because they were considered weak but with this they have a chance. i would love to see a butterfree take on a garchomp, it may still lose, but it will at least put up a half way decent fight. basically it will be like the battles u have at the beginning of ur journey after u get ur starter pokemon

    rant ended lol

    p.s. this would make evolite totaly banned!!!
    It also will make smeargle unbeatable........................... same for ditto...... it will be awful... really...

    why people don't understand not every pokemon is made for competitively play?

    butterfree can take over garchomp with enough quiver dances it got sleep powder *2 quiver dance- sweep!

    just for reference
    252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Butterfree (+SpAtk) Bug Buzz vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Garchomp: 97.48% - 114.57% (81.25% chance to OHKO)

    sure butterfree shouldn't be used in OU (or in garchomp case Ubers) but you got my point also there ARE lower tiers for worse pokemon NU,RU,UU...
    butterfree got to RU! cause of quiver dance + sleep powder


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    Quote Originally Posted by Serebii! View Post
    It would be great if many Pokemon got BST increases so most Pokemon would be equal in strength and keep it balanced as long as don't stuff it up, it would add more diversity to the metagame
    no, it just means **** like Smeargle would run rampant. Anyway, on topic, it'd be nice if Toxicroak got a modest boost, with +10 in both defenses. That way it doesn't fall so easily to random t-bolts, and whatnot.

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    Ursaring needs more speed. It would be devastating with a guts STAB facade. Only problem would come from strong priority moves like scizor BP and Conkeldurr Mach punch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wallrein View Post
    Ursaring needs more speed. It would be devastating with a guts STAB facade. Only problem would come from strong priority moves like scizor BP and Conkeldurr Mach punch.
    It gets Quick Feet. You get the choice between extra Speed and extra Power with Ursaring.
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    Quick feet sucks :P
    It doesn't give it enough speed a it's base speed is 55 and then it ha to sacrifice power

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wallrein View Post
    Quick feet sucks :P
    It doesn't give it enough speed a it's base speed is 55 and then it ha to sacrifice power
    Use it under Trick Room then. Hammer Arm even helps it become 'faster' in Trick Room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agonist View Post
    Use it under Trick Room then. Hammer Arm even helps it become 'faster' in Trick Room.
    Trick Room doesn't really work unless you use it in Doubles, Triples etc. or setting it up yourself. The problem with Quick Feet is that it forgoes a lot of power, priority ruins it and Toxic means you can be stalled out with Substitute, Protect etc.
    Now if it had Agility...
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    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Ah. How sincillating to see this glorious thread flourishes in my absence...

    Anyway. Yeah, Quick Feet isn't great. Sure, it's not useless, but in place of Guts it's just silly. Like trading an ice cream for, like, cyanide or something... Kind of, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Dewott View Post
    Like trading an ice cream for, like, cyanide or something... Kind of, anyway.
    it's not that bad <_<;

    even with a Jolly nature, Ursaring hit 359 Atk, which is quite good. And besides, there's a reason why the Quick Feet set almost always has Swords Dance. Granted, it'd be nice if it had anywhere between 65-85 Spe (bears aren't that slow...), but it's still not as terrible as everyone is making it out to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agonist View Post
    it's not that bad <_<;

    even with a Jolly nature, Ursaring hit 359 Atk, which is quite good. And besides, there's a reason why the Quick Feet set almost always has Swords Dance. Granted, it'd be nice if it had anywhere between 65-85 Spe (bears aren't that slow...), but it's still not as terrible as everyone is making it out to be.
    Quick feet only gives a 1.5x boost right? So that will put it at about 82.5 base speed, leaving it in the dust of a LOT of Pokemon. I think that it would also have to hold a toxic orb because flame orb might drop its attack (I don't know that much about quick feet, but I now want to try it). So you have to wait a turn for it to turn on, and lose a turn of health to boost up with swords dance, and still be outspeed by a good portion of the OU metagame.... I'm not really seeing your side right now...


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    What if they lowered the base stats of Ubers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    What if they lowered the base stats of Ubers?
    If it got lowered enough it would go nu, so I'm not sure if I see where you are going here..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    Quick feet only gives a 1.5x boost right? So that will put it at about 82.5 base speed, leaving it in the dust of a LOT of Pokemon. I think that it would also have to hold a toxic orb because flame orb might drop its attack (I don't know that much about quick feet, but I now want to try it). So you have to wait a turn for it to turn on, and lose a turn of health to boost up with swords dance, and still be outspeed by a good portion of the OU metagame.... I'm not really seeing your side right now...
    It don't work like this just like azumarill got more than base 100 attack power it *1.5 the speed after all the boosts which means with full speed=
    jolly 252 EVs: 229*1.5= 343.3 which is higher than positive natured base 106 (liepard) but more importantly kadabra (cause we are talking about NU).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    If it got lowered enough it would go nu, so I'm not sure if I see where you are going here..
    The lack of a ban list if they lowered some base stats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    Quick feet only gives a 1.5x boost right? So that will put it at about 82.5 base speed, leaving it in the dust of a LOT of Pokemon. I think that it would also have to hold a toxic orb because flame orb might drop its attack (I don't know that much about quick feet, but I now want to try it). So you have to wait a turn for it to turn on, and lose a turn of health to boost up with swords dance, and still be outspeed by a good portion of the OU metagame.... I'm not really seeing your side right now...
    It doesn't multiply their base stat, it multiplies their maximum stat, like Ilan said above. And you can Sword Dance on the first turn, activate your Toxic Orb, get your Speed Boost, then sweep. I'm not really sure what you're missing.

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