Cilan Takes Flight (728)

[playerking]

Crustle has never really lost, unless you want to count taking out 2 Pokemon before finally losing, as a loss.

While Stunfisk has never won a battle.

Granted I guess Crustle has been in more battles, still bullcrap, no matter how you want to justify it.

And LOL at Cilan for telling Stunfisk to use a ground type move on a flying type.

Crustle still lost, get over it.

Good battle, it's a shame Pansage lost so quickly and Stunfisk lost, but I'm glad Cilan lost.

Now his wins and losses are even.

[dman_dustin]

So this entire episode had its crux in the premise that the horrible, dumb female character dared to have a something she liked doing more than what she was expected to, and all the male characters need to teach her why that's bad. In other words, she actually is being shamed for leaving the proverbial kitchen, in this case the Gym.

Damn, I know Japan isn't exactly the best country for positive depictions of both genders, but this episode is absolutely vile.

You do realize no one forced Skyla to be a gym leader.

No one in the entire series is forced to be a gym leader. If Skyla didn't want to run her gym like the League wants her to, all she had to do was step down and let someone else take over. It's pretty clear she doesn't give a crap about being a gym leader.

After all look at Brock, he's no longer the Pewter City Gym Leader, and his brother, and what is Brock doing? He's doing what he wants.

Stop making this about some sexist thing, because its not. It would make no difference if it was Skyla, or some male character, Cilan and Ash would still be pissed.

Crustle still lost, get over it.

Please don't ever argue or talk to me unless you have a point.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

So this entire episode had its crux in the premise that the horrible, dumb female character dared to have a something she liked doing more than what she was expected to, and all the male characters need to teach her why that's bad. In other words, she actually is being shamed for leaving the proverbial kitchen, in this case the Gym.

Damn, I know Japan isn't exactly the best country for positive depictions of both genders, but this episode is absolutely vile.

Why do you take that conclusion from it? it could have been done with a guy, the exact same way.

There is no machism there, nothing against women, its a PERSON(doesn't matter male or female) not doing her job and people calling that person out on it.

I guess on top of being a Dent hater you are a Skyla lover? I really don't get how you reach those conclusions.

[pokeaussie37]

I can see Great Butler's point about it being a sexist depiction of the proverbial kitchen, but there is a point in that being a Gym Leader is a voluntary position. Skyla has no obligation to be the Gym Leader if she does not desire to be one. At the very least we will get another episode with her in it so it should be expanded upon.

[playerking]

So this entire episode had its crux in the premise that the horrible, dumb female character dared to have a something she liked doing more than what she was expected to, and all the male characters need to teach her why that's bad. In other words, she actually is being shamed for leaving the proverbial kitchen, in this case the Gym.

Damn, I know Japan isn't exactly the best country for positive depictions of both genders, but this episode is absolutely vile.

No, you're right. She was doing the right thing.

Forget the fact it's called a gym battle for a reason and that you are actually meant to battle, not guess the outcome.

Yep, Skyla was right all along.

>.>

[1rkhachatryan]

So was Tranquil here or was the user lying??

[dman_dustin]

So was Tranquil here or was the user lying??

I'd say it technically was, but we never see it. Ash sent out Pokemon, but from what I can tell, we never see them.

So technically yes, if the Pokemon Ash battles against Skyla, is the same Pokemon he sent out. Tranquill can be argued to be in the episode.

We may have to wait until the next episode to find out for sure. Since the Pokemon looked tiny as heck, and Krokorok isn't tinier than Ash's waist.

But again, I can't say for sure. Keyhole crapped out at the potential moment I/we could've seen the Pokemon.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

I think they weren't shown at all, my Keyhole was good and we didn't get to see it, they did it on purpose, even though TV Tokyo spoils us with the preview right away XD.

Poor writers trying to build suspense for nothing.

[The Great Butler]

Big surprise I'm being attacked. After all, this fandom was willing to discard the entire concept of type advange to justify Pikachu somehow beating Excadrill.

If Skyla didn't want to run her gym like the League wants her to

I'll stop you right there. Prove to me that any stated rule was explicitly broken here. She still met challengers and gave them a chance at a badge, which is a lot more than Clay, who was regularly completely absent and derelict in his duties, did.

After all look at Brock, he's no longer the Pewter City Gym Leader, and his brother, and what is Brock doing? He's doing what he wants.

Brock was forced to resign when an actual League rule - the registered Gym Leader being absent and an unregistered replacement being used - was broken. Nowhere is it said that simulations are illegal.

Again I'll ask - where were you when Clay completely abandonded his Gym? Could he not step down if he wanted to work in his mine, using your logic?

Stop making this about some sexist thing, because its not. It would make no difference if it was Skyla, or some male character, Cilan and Ash would still be pissed.

The choice of character to a degree doesn't matter, true enough. But when you have a depiction of a female character whose actions are not illegal or wrong but different being vilified by multiple male characters who make it their goal to force her to do things their way instead of doing what she pleases, yes, it is sexist.

[dman_dustin]

Big surprise I'm being attacked. After all, this fandom was willing to discard the entire concept of type advange to justify Pikachu somehow beating Excadrill.

Don't lump me into that "fandom" I never wanted Pikachu to beat Excadrill, so while I'm annoyed Iris won, I'm glad Pikachu lost.

I'll stop you right there. Prove to me that any stated rule was explicitly broken here. She still met challengers and gave them a chance at a badge, which is a lot more than

No she didn't give them a chance. How does she know that she can beat a Leavanny, Sewaddle, and a Darumaka. Sure logic would state that Leavanny and Sewaddle would lose easily to either Unfezant or Swoobat, while Darumaka could easily lose to Swanna (though apparently to Skyla, her Unfezant was the one who beat Darumaka).

There's no logic to her simulations in her mind. She ignores most of the typings, and uses her own weird logic to justify whether she'll win or lose.

Clay, who was regularly completely absent and derelict in his duties, did.

Unlike Fantina, at least Clay was at his gym, and merely refused to battle Ash most likely for legitimate reasons.

For one thing, the revival herbs might have been a life or death thing, or maybe just for safety, and I don't think we know why Clay didn't battle Ash the first time we meant. For all we know his loving brother died, and was on the funeral. He clearly went somewhere since Nurse Joy had to tell Ash that he returned.

I think it was just Ash coming at the wrong time, not that Clay just plain didn't want anything to do with Ash.

Brock was forced to resign when an actual League rule - the registered Gym Leader being absent and an unregistered replacement being used - was broken. Nowhere is it said that simulations are illegal.

No he wasn't, where was that stated?

Brock stepped down to become a breeder and left Forrest in charge. And it was Flint's own fault, for not mailing the letter telling the "Gym Inspection Agency" that there was a change in gym leader and that was Forrest. It doesn't matter if in that special episode, Pewter City Gym was in real trouble, all that was a miscommunication.

But Brock wasn't forced to resign. He didn't want to be a gym leader. He initially wanted to become a breeder, but changed and wanted to become a doctor.

How was he forced to not be a gym leader? He didn't want to be a gym leader any more. There was no "Damn, I can't be a gym leader because I screwed up, wonder what I should be now."

Again I'll ask - where were you when Clay completely abandonded his Gym? Could he not step down if he wanted to work in his mine, using your logic?

I'm not saying Skyla can't be a gym leader and a pilot at the same time. But it's unfair and would be illegal in the real world to tell a challenger that he/she can't get a badge because "Skyla" believes she'll beat the challenger just because she saw it in her simulation. That's very arrogant, and also discrimination.

That's what she did wrong, that's why she pissed Cilan and Ash off.

She didn't give challengers a chance. Because how many freaking times do we have to see people at a disadvantage turn the battle around.

The choice of character to a degree doesn't matter, true enough. But when you have a depiction of a female character whose actions are not illegal or wrong but different being vilified by multiple male characters who make it their goal to force her to do things their way instead of doing what she pleases, yes, it is sexist.

Those actions are wrong. You're just so wound up believing that Skyla is doing the right thing, merely because you believe Cilan can't have a personality and be his own character.

From what I remember all about your hating of Cilan, just revolves around the fact that he's not Brock standing in the background, making constant redundant/obvious facts about Pokemon.

And if I remember correctly, you're also the one who defended Iris heavily in the Don Battle Tournament, claiming along the lines that "How dare the writers make Iris stronger than Ash?" Well if you did say that, well then let's use your logic "How dare the writers make Cilan a real personable character that isn't standing in the background making redundant/obvious facts about Pokemon"

See I believe the only reason why you're defending Skyla, isn't because you're siding with her and condemning the writers for being sexist, but from what I can remember, the only reason why you're siding with Skyla is because it opposes Cilan. And since you've made it clear that Cilan isn't any where near your favorite character (I don't recall you saying anything positive about Cilan), of course you'd side with Skyla.

But if that's not you, than I really apologize, but this what it looks like to me.

[MechaBulba]

So Crustle gets another two wins under its shell, while Pansage and Stunfisk take massive defeats, wow people going to be raging. Personally I am fine with it as it further cements Crustle as a total powerhouse, but it is a shame Stunfisk had to loss again, especially after yet another impressive and creative display. Oh well, at the rate Cilan gets to battle I am sure it will win one day, there's always this uncoming tournament!
Overall not a bad episode, a good build up to next week. Was fun to see Skyla decide the outcome before it even happens and I am happy to see the choices in random stock Pokemon are constantly increasing, still to many Cottonee's and Darumaka's though.

[stanleysmith]

Why in the world did Stunfisk have to lose AND Crustle get two wins!? It's getting old...

[MechaBulba]

Why in the world did Stunfisk have to lose AND Crustle get two wins!? It's getting old...

Because Shell Smash beats all!

[Janovy]

So Crustle loses, but still manages to get two wins?

... why?

[The Benmeister]

You guys sure like to complain about nothing. A Rock type getting two wins against a Flying type trainer, oh noez. I do wish Stunfisk would get wins though, for the good of derpy Pokemon everywhere.

As far as gym leader incompetence goes, there's a surprisingly large amount of it through the whole of Pokemon as it is anyway.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Big surprise I'm being attacked. After all, this fandom was willing to discard the entire concept of type advange to justify Pikachu somehow beating Excadrill.

I guess you are talking to me since I was the one that apparently "attacked" you.

First if that is directed at me the Pikachu comment makes no sense, I said Pikachu would lose and I liked Iris winning that way.

I'm really not getting into the whole gym leader situation anymore, you're not dumb you're a smart guy or atleast I see you as a smart guy so if you want to ignore stuff on purpose, go ahead.

As for Clay well, he was actually a smart when "running" away from his jobs, he gave Satoshi a task, so he can prove himself, obviously its not his job to give him tasks, his job is to figth Satoshi but the whole situation is diferent. Satoshi and Dent weren't pissed at her just for her not doing her job but for no even battling trainers and giving away badges to the ones she though could beat her.

Clay had more important things to do(even if he shouldn't) but he didn't go around giving badges away, Clay still had his pride as a gym leader and you saw it in his figth with Satoshi, Skyla just doesn't seem to care and that is why they were pissed at her.

Again there is nothing sexist about it, it could have been a guy doing the same, I didn't see any implications of sex in the episode at all...

So Crustle loses, but still manages to get two wins?

... why?

This

You guys sure like to complain about nothing. A Rock type getting two wins against a Flying type trainer, oh noez. I do wish Stunfisk would get wins though, for the good of derpy Pokemon everywhere.

As far as gym leader incompetence goes, there's a surprisingly large amount of it through the whole of Pokemon as it is anyway.

I have the exact same opinion, I wanted Stunfisk to get a win but Crustle getting two makes sense in terms of typing and it probably being Dent strongest pokemon rigth now.

[Chomper4]

Did it show who Ash sends out?

[gliscor&yanmega]

Saw the pictures, looks like a nice episode to me, although I'd probably like it more if I knew word for word what they were saying.

Cilan losing isn't a shock to me, was expecting it, although I was kind of doubting it once I looked at the pictures since the battle went completely different then I thought.

Crustle got two wins here, two easy wins, and lost. Stunfisk and Pansage both lost, shame. Interesting that it seemed Stunfisk used a Ground type move on Swanna, not sure if it hit though, I always wonder how the writers would deal with Ground type moves that aren't really limited to being on the ground, Mud Bomb being one of those, I wonder if anything about it was mentioned in the episode.

The Pokemon Ash sent out wasn't shown/heard right? If so, I think that's a nice cliffhanger and build up for the next episode. I wonder why Ash only sent out one Pokemon though, assuming he sent it out because of Skyla's thing, then he should have sent two more out(Well one more since Pikachu is already out), I see this as foreshadow of the mystery Pokemon to "star" in the gym, so it's clearly Tranquill with everything we already know.

I don't like how Skyla is doing her gym, it makes it more entertaining to watch(In a show aspect), but it just doesn't seem right, I can see why Ash and Cilan weren't too happy. It seems like that old guy explained why she does it, I wonder who he is(Father/Grandfather?).

Looks enjoyable to me.

[Supersonicbro]

to the one who's talking about why was skyla attacked for not doing her job, and how it was sexist and all that stuff. doesn't this look familiar? Volkner did something similar to this , and what did ash do? He got mad at him for it. So no this isn't a sexist thing it's basically that ash and cilan saw that that was wrong basically for the fact that skyla was making up her own rules of who should win or lose (which is kinda worse than volkner) in an official competition. It's like someone running the olympics looking at the participants and determining who wins based on how they look.

And also I wonder why pansage didn't use rock tomb or even attempt to.

[fishyfool]

Cilan, ye dolt.

Would it have been too easy just to get Stunfisk to Discharge the goddamn turkey and show the pretentious bovine what type advantage means?