Cilan Takes Flight (728)

[Shego]

So Skyla made her appearance in the anime. Its been a long time since I've battled her in my Pokemon Black version game. I never expect Cilan battles her.

[Haunter227]

I really love it too.

I don't get the big deal, Crustle is obviously intended to be shown as a strong powerhouse, it was always strong as a Dwebble too.

Why does a Pokemon have to be weak? It's not like Cilan still lost the battle and it's not like Crustle can be shown as a godly Pokemon.

[Janovy]

I don't get the big deal, Crustle is obviously intended to be shown as a strong powerhouse, it was always strong as a Dwebble too.

Which is exactly the problem.

Why does a Pokemon have to be weak? It's not like Cilan still lost the battle and it's not like Crustle can be shown as a godly Pokemon.

Hence the fact we coined the nickname "Zeustle".

He didn't lose a single battle so far which is unfair towards Pokémon like Pansage or Stunfisk. I get it, it's okay for Pokémon to be strong, but would it be so bad to have Crustle lose and let someone else win for a change? I am happy that Crustle finally lost but must he have had two wins before finally going down? That's what's bothering me. :/

[Royal_Qeca]

That's exactly what the writers want to do with Crustle, I'm sure it will lead to something interesting. Besides that I'm really appreciating such powerhouse!!

Zeustle~

[Thriller]

Ooh wow! Love Male Unfezant's design.

[Haunter227]

Which is exactly the problem.

Um.

Hence the fact we coined the nickname "Zeustle".

I've never heard this until now...

He didn't lose a single battle so far which is unfair towards Pokémon like Pansage or Stunfisk. I get it, it's okay for Pokémon to be strong, but would it be so bad to have Crustle lose and let someone else win for a change? I am happy that Crustle finally lost but must he have had two wins before finally going down? That's what's bothering me. :/

I understand what you think, personally I don't mind, but yeah it would be great if Pansage and Stunfisk got some wins to.

There's no reason why Pansage/Stunfisk can't be Cilan's fighter for once instead of Crustle, that seems to be the main problem with people then.

[Shneak]

I want to watch the episode, but I can find it, so I just looked at the photos. Looks good, but the battle result disappointed me. I mean, I'm glad Cilan lost, but Crustle getting two wins, really?

[00poke_maniac]

He didn't lose a single battle so far which is unfair towards Pokémon like Pansage or Stunfisk. I get it, it's okay for Pokémon to be strong, but would it be so bad to have Crustle lose and let someone else win for a change? I am happy that Crustle finally lost but must he have had two wins before finally going down? That's what's bothering me. :/

It's not a problem. It's not like it's actually Crustle's fault. He is supposed to be strong, and Crustle have pretty good defenses anyways so...(I'm trying to look at the battle realistically) I just wish Pansage faught a bit longer. :/
..

I don't care what people say. Dento's expression when he lost was epic. It made my day.

I weep for my generation.

Yeah, just read it and weep :P

[Shego]

I'm sorry that I have to see Cilan lose but Ash will duel Skyla next.

[Haunter227]

In all fairness from what i've seen, Cilan losing has set Ash up perfectly to get a more satisfying win showing that Ash is obviously getting better as a trainer.

[Ciccone]

I don't get the big deal, Crustle is obviously intended to be shown as a strong powerhouse, it was always strong as a Dwebble too.

Why does a Pokemon have to be weak? It's not like Cilan still lost the battle and it's not like Crustle can be shown as a godly Pokemon.

Crustle is overshadowing Cilan's other Pokemon with his power - particularly Stunfisk. The writers need to tone Crustle down a bit so that Cilan's other Pokemon can get some victories. I'm honestly surprised that only a few people are upset considering how many people complain about balance and equality when we're talking about Ash's team: :|

[Royal_Qeca]

Don't you see that all this about Crustle and his god skills have a point? We just need to wait and see what the writers have in mind for this Pokemon and Cilan.

[Venomfang]

Loved this one. After a long string of weak episodes this one really bowled me over. I liked how they portrayed Skyla as being a lazy slacker who doesn't care about her job and acting a bit arrogent as well. Having her grampa try to get her back to work was also an interesting concept. I for one did not see this as being sexist at all, if Skyla was male he would have been treated the same way. Yeah, I was a little annoyed that Zeustle got 2 wins and Stunfisk got none, but at least we got to see the little guy battle.

Seeing Cilan freak out after he lost was icing on the cake for me. Also, stop wearing those clothes Skyla, you look like an idiot.

[ShigaKyou]

Where is everyone watching the episode? I can't find a RAW. Can someone link me to it, please? ;__;

[Agility]

That's exactly what the writers want to do with Crustle, I'm sure it will lead to something interesting. Besides that I'm really appreciating such powerhouse!!

You appreciate mindless, senseless unbalancing of a main character's team; you like it that Stunfisk hasn't won a single battle, yet is portrayed to be powerful and creative when it's fighting. Stunfisk's way of battling is much more interesting than "Rock Wrecker!Shell Smash!lol Rock Wrecker! Shell SmashScissor!"

In all fairness from what i've seen, Cilan losing has set Ash up perfectly to get a more satisfying win showing that Ash is obviously getting better as a trainer.

He's a perfectly fine trainer. His problem is the air leaves his head sometimes, and he forgets the basic crap drilled into him for 400 seasons.

[The Great Butler]

No she didn't give them a chance. How does she know that she can beat a Leavanny, Sewaddle, and a Darumaka. Sure logic would state that Leavanny and Sewaddle would lose easily to either Unfezant or Swoobat, while Darumaka could easily lose to Swanna (though apparently to Skyla, her Unfezant was the one who beat Darumaka).

There's no logic to her simulations in her mind. She ignores most of the typings, and uses her own weird logic to justify whether she'll win or lose.

No offense, but you just completely contradicted yourself. You demonstrated how she uses type advantages and was correct in her appliance of them, then turned around and tried to claim she ignores type.

Unlike Fantina, at least Clay was at his gym, and merely refused to battle Ash most likely for legitimate reasons.

For one thing, the revival herbs might have been a life or death thing, or maybe just for safety, and I don't think we know why Clay didn't battle Ash the first time we meant. For all we know his loving brother died, and was on the funeral. He clearly went somewhere since Nurse Joy had to tell Ash that he returned.

I think it was just Ash coming at the wrong time, not that Clay just plain didn't want anything to do with Ash.

Clay initially refused to battle him because something had been discovered at a mine he owned. He was leaving the Gym to conduct personal business and refusing challengers.

How was he forced to not be a gym leader? He didn't want to be a gym leader any more. There was no "Damn, I can't be a gym leader because I screwed up, wonder what I should be now."

I worded that poorly. What I was trying to say was that the entire problem presented in that episode was because of Forrest acting as the Gym Leader while Brock was still in title the Gym Leader.

Those actions are wrong. You're just so wound up believing that Skyla is doing the right thing, merely because you believe Cilan can't have a personality and be his own character.

From what I remember all about your hating of Cilan, just revolves around the fact that he's not Brock standing in the background, making constant redundant/obvious facts about Pokemon.

You just lost all credibility, even though you were making a relatively good case to this point. I haven't connected the innate sexism in this episode's premise directly to Cilan at all. Cilan's obnoxious behavior, which I haven't actually mentioned in this thread until now, did not affect at all the depiction of Skyla and what's wrong with it.

See I believe the only reason why you're defending Skyla, isn't because you're siding with her and condemning the writers for being sexist, but from what I can remember, the only reason why you're siding with Skyla is because it opposes Cilan.

Wrong. But since you apologized, I forgive you for assuming this.

-.- Last episode was "racist" now this episode is "sexist"...gosh I'm a girl and I felt no offense what-so-ever...It wasn't saying that about all girls, they were saying that about only Skyla, unless Volkner is disguising himself as a male I don't get the problem.

The writers did not call as much negative attention to what Volkner was doing even though it was worse. The only person other than Ash to criticize him (iirc) was Paul, and he even found a (misguided, granted) defender in Barry. When Ash finally met him, he complained, then did something about it and it was over. This entire episode, on the other hand, was completely centered around as many characters as possible - suspiciously all male - slamming it in our faces how horrible what Skyla is doing is.

I think the sexist vibes come from the fact that the three male characters of the epiosde: Ash, Cilan, and Miles, are all morally outraged at Skyla and her way of doing things and determinned to prove her wrong. Iris, the sole other female character of the episode, has no reaction whatsoever. It may not be intentional sexism, but still....

THANK YOU. This is exactly my point.

[AgentPierce]

Yeah, if Iris had been as angered about what Skyla was doing as Ash and Cilan, and Miles had just stayed out of things entirely, the episode would have been much less sexist-seeming. But no, she doesn't seem to feel a thing about it, indicating that it's just guys who find it so reprehensible....and their side is supposed to be the right one.

Though, I still don't care for Cilan being so angry about it at all, even if he ended up losing and broken in the end. Cilan is abdicating his gym entirely to pursue all sorts of his connossieur hobbies. How is that better than what Skyla's doing....battling or not, at least Skyla sticks around her gym even while pursuing her hobby.

[_Taidow_]

Yeah, if Iris had been as angered about what Skyla was doing as Ash and Cilan, and Miles had just stayed out of things entirely, the episode would have been much less sexist-seeming. But no, she doesn't seem to feel a thing about it, indicating that it's just guys who find it so reprehensible....and their side is supposed to be the right one.

Though, I still don't care for Cilan being so angry about it at all, even if he ended up losing and broken in the end. Cilan is abdicating his gym entirely to pursue all sorts of his connossieur hobbies. How is that better than what Skyla's doing....battling or not, at least Skyla sticks around her gym even while pursuing her hobby.

Skyla doesn't have two other brothers who stay at the gym as gym leaders.

[The Great Butler]

Skyla doesn't have two other brothers who stay at the gym as gym leaders.

It's still breaking the format of the gym, because the Striaton Gym is supposed to have three Leaders representing three different types.

[AuraChannelerChris]

It's still breaking the format of the gym, because the Striaton Gym is supposed to have three Leaders representing three different types.

We dealt with Misty's Angels sisters doing a poor job at actual Gym battles. This isn't new.