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Thread: Legendary Pokemon Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #3926
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    I'm sure this question has been asked before but I'm going to ask it now. If I get B2 and make myself a Black Kyurem, can I transfer my B1 kyurem and reshiram to B2 and get a White Kyurem at the same time? That way I'd have both white and black kyurem on my team at the same time. Can this be done?
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  2. #3927
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D992 View Post
    I'm sure this question has been asked before but I'm going to ask it now. If I get B2 and make myself a Black Kyurem, can I transfer my B1 kyurem and reshiram to B2 and get a White Kyurem at the same time? That way I'd have both white and black kyurem on my team at the same time. Can this be done?
    You can not have both White Kyurem & Black Kyurem on your team at the same time

  3. #3928

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver-mont View Post
    They most likely meant patch it with either one thing or the other, referring to B2W2 themselves. Plus, Black and White Kyurem are broken enough, an "original dragon" would be overkill.



    I don't think we'll ever see the original dragon.
    If we don't see him it will be a huge wasted opportunity and I would be pretty upset. As for him being overkill? Well I guess, but he could be the second Pokemon to have a BST of 720, for better or for worse.
    I really hope we get to see the original Dragon but I don't want it to be another Kyurem Forme, I'd rather see him as an event Pokemon in the next Generation.


    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    You can not have both White Kyurem & Black Kyurem on your team at the same time
    I presume you can't have them both in the same game. That's mondo lame. Hopefully that will be fixed in the next game/s




    EDIT: BTW, what ever came of Overdrive mode for Black/White Kyurem?
    Last edited by ArchedThunder; 28th June 2012 at 7:33 AM.

  4. #3929
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    I presume you can't have them both in the same game. That's mondo lame. Hopefully that will be fixed in the next game/s.
    And ruin the game balance by giving you TWO 700 BST Pokemon...? Talk about breaking the game.

  5. #3930
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    EDIT: BTW, what ever came of Overdrive mode for Black/White Kyurem?
    Nothing. It's just a term for when BWKyurem lights up, like Zekrom & Reshiram.
    The only difference is that when in battle BWKyurem is always lit up

  6. #3931
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    I dont think we will EVER see the "Original Dragon Pokemon" because its split into the tao trio(What we have now, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem)... The only way for us to see it is if Game Freak made an item to merge the tao trio together or for their to be a flashback in the games.... Simple as that.

  7. #3932
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyBlueLatios View Post
    I dont think we will EVER see the "Original Dragon Pokemon" because its split into the tao trio(What we have now, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem)... The only way for us to see it is if Game Freak made an item to merge the tao trio together or for their to be a flashback in the games.... Simple as that.
    Not necessarily, the reason why they even exist is because of the Unova Brothers' War. It's wishful thinking, but there is always potential to resolve the ideological issues that the war created. Once you have an Unova where ideals are in balance and people are no longer divided...then that's when an Original Dragon happens (to give an example, each Ninja Country in Naruto has a Tailed Beast for weapon/keeping villages in check. If a world of peace and prosperity is welcomed...then there really is no point in having a Tailed Beast is there?).

    Then again, it all comes down to whether GameFreak actually wants to resolve the Ancient War.

  8. #3933
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Not necessarily, the reason why they even exist is because of the Unova Brothers' War. It's wishful thinking, but there is always potential to resolve the ideological issues that the war created. Once you have an Unova where ideals are in balance and people are no longer divided...then that's when an Original Dragon happens (to give an example, each Ninja Country in Naruto has a Tailed Beast for weapon/keeping villages in check. If a world of peace and prosperity is welcomed...then there really is no point in having a Tailed Beast is there?).

    Then again, it all comes down to whether GameFreak actually wants to resolve the Ancient War.
    ...You lost me.

    Anyway I don't think you understand me. Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem are parts of the OD because they split from it, so for us to see the OD they would have to fuse the tao trio together or to show a flash back of the past in the games... and none of that happened in the games.

  9. #3934
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    I am very happy to know that my sweet Heatran will be in the game, but catchable in one way or form. I love this concept. :P


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  10. #3935
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackterminator3 View Post
    I am very happy to know that my sweet Heatran will be in the game, but catchable in one way or form. I love this concept. :P
    I am happy to see one of my favorites, Latios to be in the game! Although im getting White 2 so I will get Latias. : (
    Last edited by LightSuicune; 28th June 2012 at 8:23 AM.

  11. #3936
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyBlueLatios View Post
    ...You lost me.

    Anyway I don't think you understand me. Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem are parts of the OD because they split from it, so for us to see the OD they would have to fuse the tao trio together or to show a flash back of the past in the games... and none of that happened in the games.
    And I'm saying that the fusion of the Tao Trio to recreate the Original Dragon is a plot point that is completely dependent on how motivated GameFreak is on resolving the issues from the Unova War. Here's a snippet of the mythology if you're unfamiliar with it.

    In mythology, Unova was created by uniting the warring peoples of the land by twin heroes. To do this, they used a single dragon at an unknown point over 2500 years ago. However, the brothers started arguing over something each sought in life; the older brother sought truth and the younger brother sought ideals. Their arguments split the single dragon into Reshiram, who sided with the older brother, and Zekrom, who sided with the younger brother. Since they were both born from the same dragon neither could defeat the other and the brothers declared that there was no right side. However, eventually their sons continued the fight and both the dragons started to battle again, destroying the Unova region with their fire and lightning powers before disappearing.
    Brother of Ideals (Reshiram) vs. Brother of Truth (Zekrom) has turned into Hilbert vs. N in Black/White 1, which has now been turned into Trainer vs. N vs. Ghetsis. We're still left with Zekrom, Reshiram and Kyurem out in the open, meaning there isn't a resolution in the whole truth vs. ideals war. And that's when the Original Dragon comes in...when there a balance has been achieved and people are no longer divided then Zekrom and Reshiram will cease to exist as truth and ideals would be non-existent...and in turn, recreate the Original Dragon.

  12. #3937
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyBlueLatios View Post
    I am happy to see one of my favorites, Latios to be in the game! Although im getting White 2 so I will get Latias. : (
    This is so mega awesome, I like Latios and Latias as well. I preordered both the games, so I would be getting both. :P I also heard you can get Cresslia by the bridge. I am so stocked that in this game, it will be easier to catch more Pokemon.


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  13. #3938
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackterminator3 View Post
    This is so mega awesome, I like Latios and Latias as well. I preordered both the games, so I would be getting both. :P I also heard you can get Cresslia by the bridge. I am so stocked that in this game, it will be easier to catch more Pokemon.
    Counting both games that's the whole Tao Trio, the musketeers, the 4 regi, both lati, cresselia, heatran, the pixies
    With the Dream Radar (and assorted 4th gen games) you can get the Kami, the sinnoh dragons, and the johto birds.

    A wonderfully large selection is always something I love to see.

  14. #3939
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Counting both games that's the whole Tao Trio, the musketeers, the 4 regi, both lati, cresselia, heatran, the pixies
    With the Dream Radar (and assorted 4th gen games) you can get the Kami, the sinnoh dragons, and the johto birds.

    A wonderfully large selection is always something I love to see.

    You can't argue with that fact. Having this new creation of Dream Radar, is a wonderful feeling.


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  15. #3940
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    U.S. release date confirmed for B/W2. October 7th 2012
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  16. #3941
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    Here's my thoughts on Kyurem and the Original Dragon.

    1. Each aspect of Taoism is represented by a separate Pokemon: Zekrom - Yin, Reshiram - Yang, Kyurem - Wuji. Kyurem can't have a "Taiji forme" because then Kyurem would not represent Wuji. The OD would need to be a separate Pokemon as well, meaning that Kyurem is only figuratively the shell of the OD, not literally.

    Kyurem and its Ice typing show it has no fire/electricity of its own, which could also be shown in that it remains an Ice type even after absorbing the dragons and being able to use fire/electric attacks. The OD would not be Ice, since the Ice type represents lack of energy.

    2. Kyurem doesn't appear to be truly fusing with Reshiram/ Zekrom. As others have compared, Kyurem is very much like Cell from DBZ. When Cell absorbs an Android, he transforms and becomes stronger, but he is still Cell, still the same being he was before. Kyurem takes in the other dragons, but still remains Kyurem.

    3. Black Kyurem and White Kyurem remind me of Vegito as far as appearance goes. Vegito and the Kyurem formes combine characteristics of the beings involved in the "fusion". Goku and Vegeta are the original natural existences, which is why Vegito looks like a combination, just like the Kyurem formes. This leads me to believe the Kyurem formes aren't totally natural, especially if an item is needed for it to happen. If all the dragons were one, why is an item needed for the forme change to occur? And it's odd that the DNA Link is specifically for Kyurem and one of the two other dragons, but it can't fuse Reshiram and Zekrom?

    Also, if I remember correctly, N can still hear his dragon after it is absorbed by Kyurem, which is odd. Wouldn't their minds have combined as well if they were originally one? And the fact that the absorption can be undone seems to imply (at least to me) that Kyurem isn't the OD, because it would make no sense for it to willingly revert to a previous forme/split again if the "complete" forme is its natural existence.

    4. The initial split of the OD is a major part of the Unova legend. If the split is reversible, why does it play such a huge part in the story? If this dragon can simply reform itself, why is the split so important?

    Remember the Red Gyarados? Why did it get attention? Because it was a different color than Gyarados normally are. If different colored Pokemon were commonplace, they wouldn't be any different than normal colored Pokemon. Same with the OD. If the split and reforming could occur at will, the importance of it as mentioned in the legend would make that initial split seem like not much a big deal. This is why I believe that split was permanent.

    And if the two brothers stopped fighting and agreed that neither of them was any more right or wrong than the other, why didn't the dragon return then?
    -----
    Personally, I see no need in the OD or a "Perfect Kyurem" appearing. We already know what the OD represents and its backstory without seeing it. I don't there's anything to add to its story. If it appears in-game, it won't really have any purpose besides just being there for the sake of being there. It just seems to me that the initial split is too important to be reversible.
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  17. #3942

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    And ruin the game balance by giving you TWO 700 BST Pokemon...? Talk about breaking the game.
    I'd like to have them both in my PC for completion's sake.
    I have two Arceus, doesn't mean I use them.

  18. #3943
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    Quote Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
    Here's my thoughts on Kyurem and the Original Dragon.

    1. Each aspect of Taoism is represented by a separate Pokemon: Zekrom - Yin, Reshiram - Yang, Kyurem - Wuji. Kyurem can't have a "Taiji forme" because then Kyurem would not represent Wuji. The OD would need to be a separate Pokemon as well, meaning that Kyurem is only figuratively the shell of the OD, not literally.

    Kyurem and its Ice typing show it has no fire/electricity of its own, which could also be shown in that it remains an Ice type even after absorbing the dragons and being able to use fire/electric attacks. The OD would not be Ice, since the Ice type represents lack of energy.

    2. Kyurem doesn't appear to be truly fusing with Reshiram/ Zekrom. As others have compared, Kyurem is very much like Cell from DBZ. When Cell absorbs an Android, he transforms and becomes stronger, but he is still Cell, still the same being he was before. Kyurem takes in the other dragons, but still remains Kyurem.

    3. Black Kyurem and White Kyurem remind me of Vegito as far as appearance goes. Vegito and the Kyurem formes combine characteristics of the beings involved in the "fusion". Goku and Vegeta are the original natural existences, which is why Vegito looks like a combination, just like the Kyurem formes. This leads me to believe the Kyurem formes aren't totally natural, especially if an item is needed for it to happen. If all the dragons were one, why is an item needed for the forme change to occur? And it's odd that the DNA Link is specifically for Kyurem and one of the two other dragons, but it can't fuse Reshiram and Zekrom?

    Also, if I remember correctly, N can still hear his dragon after it is absorbed by Kyurem, which is odd. Wouldn't their minds have combined as well if they were originally one? And the fact that the absorption can be undone seems to imply (at least to me) that Kyurem isn't the OD, because it would make no sense for it to willingly revert to a previous forme/split again if the "complete" forme is its natural existence.

    4. The initial split of the OD is a major part of the Unova legend. If the split is reversible, why does it play such a huge part in the story? If this dragon can simply reform itself, why is the split so important?

    Remember the Red Gyarados? Why did it get attention? Because it was a different color than Gyarados normally are. If different colored Pokemon were commonplace, they wouldn't be any different than normal colored Pokemon. Same with the OD. If the split and reforming could occur at will, the importance of it as mentioned in the legend would make that initial split seem like not much a big deal. This is why I believe that split was permanent.

    And if the two brothers stopped fighting and agreed that neither of them was any more right or wrong than the other, why didn't the dragon return then?
    -----
    Personally, I see no need in the OD or a "Perfect Kyurem" appearing. We already know what the OD represents and its backstory without seeing it. I don't there's anything to add to its story. If it appears in-game, it won't really have any purpose besides just being there for the sake of being there. It just seems to me that the initial split is too important to be reversible.
    1. Devil’s Advocate: you can’t solely focus on Kyurem if you’re going to look at it that way. Zekrom would lose its Yin and Reshiram would lose its Yang representation, if both were used for Kyurem to gain its “Taiji” forme. Pokemon do not need to retain its representation if the forme is trying to accomplish a new metaphor. You’ll see what I mean when I answer another one of your question.

    Secondly, except Kyurem is also a Dragon, and such gives it the ability to create fire and electricity (otherwise, Freeze Shock and Ice Burn would not exist…given their electrical and fire composition).

    Lastly, look at their base stats, Kyurem only has 660 BST compared to Zekrom and Reshiram’s 680…certainly implies that Kyurem is weaker and a frailer corpse of the original dragon. Additionally Kyurem has 130 on both Attack and Sp. Attack whereas Kyurem-W/Kyurem-B have lopsided Sp. Atk and Atk values respectively . So there’s evidence pointing towards being a literal shell.

    2. Agreed – but Black/White Kyurem do get the traits of both consciousness.

    3. It’s a contradiction then, you claimed that they don’t appear to be truly fusing but you use the example of Vegito (who is a fused consciousness), and if you look at it in-depth, it’s actually more close than you claim it to be. First off, let’s not forget that Earrings were necessary for Vegito to even exist, so it’s not all that different from using the Gene Wedge to create the Kyurem formes. Secondly, Vegito is 1 consciousness that has the traits of both Vegeta and Goku, in Kyurem’s case, it is 1 consciousness that has the traits of Zekrom’s Electricity/Reshiram’s fire and Kyurem’s Ice.
    I for one still think that fusion cannot occur unless there’s a balance in Unova. What I mean is that you can’t have people divided between ideals and truth, but rather have people recognize that each path has its virtue if we listen to it, rather than argue like the Unova Brothers did (think what Alder said to N).

    4. The split being reversible actually has merit in the story. To quote Daodejing, Wuji is “Know whiteness, Maintain blackness, and be a model for all under heaven. By being a model for all under heaven, Eternal integrity will not err. If eternal integrity does not err, you will return to infinity.” I argue that Kyurem is not solely based on “emptiness,” but rather a key to returning to the Original Dragon.

    Let’s rewind, the Unova Brothers resorted to violence because each brother believed they were right instead of ”understanding each other’s side” to quote Alder. Think about it, the Brothers simply fled instead of acknowledging their opposite’s credibility and strength. So once again, the key for the original dragon’s arrival is to understand both sides’ virtues and demerits without resorting to violence.

    Without violence, Reshiram and Zekrom become useless as they cannot take sides. If they cannot take sides, then they shall return to what they once were. Balance is thus restored. And Unova as we know it now, isn't balanced.

  19. #3944
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    Sorry if this has been asked already, but are Black Kyurem and White Kyurem restricted to being made only from a Black/White 2 Kyurem, or can you trade a Kyurem from Black or White and use that one instead? I'm just wondering since I haven't caught mine in White yet, and I wanted to know if it'd be worth getting a good natured one now or to wait for the B/W 2 one.
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  20. #3945
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    Any Kyurem, any Zekrom/Reshiram works.

  21. #3946
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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    Any Kyurem, any Zekrom/Reshiram works.
    Ah ok, that's good. Thanks!
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  22. #3947
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    So you can have both Black kyurem and white Kyurem in B2 or W2?

  23. #3948
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    Quote Originally Posted by HyperXhydra95 View Post
    So you can have both Black kyurem and white Kyurem in B2 or W2?
    No, You can't have 2 Kyurem formes in one team. You can only have 1 forme in your team. But you can change Kyurem's forme as long as you have Zekrom or Reshiram.

  24. #3949
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    No, You can't have 2 Kyurem formes in one team. You can only have 1 forme in your team. But you can change Kyurem's forme as long as you have Zekrom or Reshiram.
    Hacking is the only way.

  25. #3950
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    1. Devil’s Advocate: you can’t solely focus on Kyurem if you’re going to look at it that way. Zekrom would lose its Yin and Reshiram would lose its Yang representation, if both were used for Kyurem to gain its “Taiji” forme. Pokemon do not need to retain its representation if the forme is trying to accomplish a new metaphor. You’ll see what I mean when I answer another one of your question.

    Secondly, except Kyurem is also a Dragon, and such gives it the ability to create fire and electricity (otherwise, Freeze Shock and Ice Burn would not exist…given their electrical and fire composition).

    Lastly, look at their base stats, Kyurem only has 660 BST compared to Zekrom and Reshiram’s 680…certainly implies that Kyurem is weaker and a frailer corpse of the original dragon. Additionally Kyurem has 130 on both Attack and Sp. Attack whereas Kyurem-W/Kyurem-B have lopsided Sp. Atk and Atk values respectively . So there’s evidence pointing towards being a literal shell.

    2. Agreed – but Black/White Kyurem do get the traits of both consciousness.

    3. It’s a contradiction then, you claimed that they don’t appear to be truly fusing but you use the example of Vegito (who is a fused consciousness), and if you look at it in-depth, it’s actually more close than you claim it to be. First off, let’s not forget that Earrings were necessary for Vegito to even exist, so it’s not all that different from using the Gene Wedge to create the Kyurem formes. Secondly, Vegito is 1 consciousness that has the traits of both Vegeta and Goku, in Kyurem’s case, it is 1 consciousness that has the traits of Zekrom’s Electricity/Reshiram’s fire and Kyurem’s Ice.
    I for one still think that fusion cannot occur unless there’s a balance in Unova. What I mean is that you can’t have people divided between ideals and truth, but rather have people recognize that each path has its virtue if we listen to it, rather than argue like the Unova Brothers did (think what Alder said to N).

    4. The split being reversible actually has merit in the story. To quote Daodejing, Wuji is “Know whiteness, Maintain blackness, and be a model for all under heaven. By being a model for all under heaven, Eternal integrity will not err. If eternal integrity does not err, you will return to infinity.” I argue that Kyurem is not solely based on “emptiness,” but rather a key to returning to the Original Dragon.

    Let’s rewind, the Unova Brothers resorted to violence because each brother believed they were right instead of ”understanding each other’s side” to quote Alder. Think about it, the Brothers simply fled instead of acknowledging their opposite’s credibility and strength. So once again, the key for the original dragon’s arrival is to understand both sides’ virtues and demerits without resorting to violence.

    Without violence, Reshiram and Zekrom become useless as they cannot take sides. If they cannot take sides, then they shall return to what they once were. Balance is thus restored. And Unova as we know it now, isn't balanced.
    It was never confirmed that if they cannot take sides they revert back.. Plus its not about taking sides. Reshiram brings truth to the world and Zekrom brings Ideals into the world (due to their BW2 dex entries), so they will most likely never revert back since the world needs truth and ideals.

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