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  1. #4551
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    For some reason, I think that if a RSE remake comes out on this Generation, Kyurem would debut on it.
    But the chances are very small, given the fact that Generation V is ending, so I think we'll either have the Original Dragon debuting on Generation VI, or just get a sillhouette in one of the manga (maybe SPECIAL) and never more see anything about it again.

    Based on Black and White Kyurem, I think the Original Dragon had four wings (mixing the two forms's wings), the "horns" or whatever-is-the-name of both forms, a mix of the Reshiram and Zekrom's turbines on the tail, and a grey, black, white, red and blue coloring on the body. Maybe it was pure Dragon-type and named Full Kyurem, Tao Kyurem, something like that.


    I don't see how that theory makes sense. Arceus is not even part of Isshu's myths, and there's NO indication that it has anything to do with the Tao trio. The closest we get is a random non-canon scene with the Dark Trinity giving the three orbs to Touko/Touya, but the writers probably only did that, with that specific scene, instead of you randomly finding the orb somewhere, because both the Creation and Tao trios are composed exclusively of Dragon Pokémon.

    I personally think Kyurem's forms are a hint as to what the OD looked like, KyuRom's wings and KyuRam's arms, and the rest based around the shape of the Dragon in the Champion's room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    For some reason, I think that if a RSE remake comes out on this Generation, the Original Dragon would debut on it.But the chances are very small, given the fact that Generation V is ending, so I think we'll either have the Original Dragon debuting on Generation VI, or just get a sillhouette in one of the manga (maybe SPECIAL) and never more see anything about it again.Based on Black and White Kyurem, I think the Original Dragon had four wings (mixing the two forms's wings), the "horns" or whatever-is-the-name of both forms, a mix of the Reshiram and Zekrom's turbines on the tail, and a grey, black, white, red and blue coloring on the body. Maybe it was pure Dragon-type and named Full Kyurem, Tao Kyurem, something like that.I don't see how that theory makes sense. Arceus is not even part of Isshu's myths, and there's NO indication that it has anything to do with the Tao trio. The closest we get is a random non-canon scene with the Dark Trinity giving the three orbs to Touko/Touya, but the writers probably only did that, with that specific scene, instead of you randomly finding the orb somewhere, because both the Creation and Tao trios are composed exclusively of Dragon Pokémon.
    Do heatran, cresselia, and the lake trio have anything to do with Unova? No. Their items just happened to be there. Im just saying it could happen, I DON'T want it to... but anything could go. Off topic: I've always been a little twisted on how the legendaries created the pokemon world. Did the Tao trio create beliefs and Energy to balance out the universe?
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  3. #4553
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    For some reason, I think that if a RSE remake comes out on this Generation, the Original Dragon would debut on it.
    But the chances are very small, given the fact that Generation V is ending, so I think we'll either have the Original Dragon debuting on Generation VI, or just get a sillhouette in one of the manga (maybe SPECIAL) and never more see anything about it again.
    I doubt it'd be in Hoenn, let's not forget that the region has the mythology of Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogre, so I can't see a fit with the Hoenn trio and the Original Dragon (assuming GameFreak designs the Dragon). And we can't really say Generation V is ending yet...look at the people who thought Black and White would be Gen V's swan song until GameFreak pulled up sequels and surprised us. I'd wait to see what GF does before declaring it the end of Gen V.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    Based on Black and White Kyurem, I think the Original Dragon had four wings (mixing the two forms's wings), the "horns" or whatever-is-the-name of both forms, a mix of the Reshiram and Zekrom's turbines on the tail, and a grey, black, white, red and blue coloring on the body. Maybe it was pure Dragon-type and named Full Kyurem, Tao Kyurem, something like that.
    I am in full support of this theory, I've even said something similar to what you said. Except, I focused more on symmetry of the Kyurem formes. For instance, look at the formes.





    Notice something? Yup, the formes are very asymmetrical and take a side. For instance, Black Kyurem's right arm and wing are naturally black while it's left side is not. On White Kyurem's left arm and wing, it's naturally white while its right side is not. Now this could represent how each Dragon forme represents yin and yang respectively. Now it would make more sense for the OD to be full and symmetrical, hence why I think Kyurem needs both Zekrom and Reshiram in order to be complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Notice something? Yup, the formes are very asymmetrical and take a side. For instance, Black Kyurem's right arm and wing are naturally black while it's left side is not. On White Kyurem's left arm and wing, it's naturally white while its right side is not. Now this could represent how each Dragon forme represents yin and yang respectively. Now it would make more sense for the OD to be full and symmetrical, hence why I think Kyurem needs both Zekrom and Reshiram in order to be complete.
    I noticed that too - basically if a body part on Black Kyurem is made of flesh, the corresponding body part on White Kyurem is made of ice, and vice versa. So it's possible that the OD is simply Black Kyurem + White Kyurem, minus all the ice. Although I would assume the tail would have to be some sort of combination, since there is no ice on neither Kyurem tail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reshiram44 View Post
    Off topic: I've always been a little twisted on how the legendaries created the pokemon world. Did the Tao trio create beliefs and Energy to balance out the universe?
    Not very many Legendaries are even said to have had a hand in creating the world; just Arceus, Regigigas, the Spacetime Trio, the Lake Trio, and the Weather Trio. The Tao Trio has nothing to do with the world's creation and they were never said to have actually created anything, really; they merely represent the concepts of truth and ideals. They did not create them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endolise View Post
    Not very many Legendaries are even said to have had a hand in creating the world; just Arceus, Regigigas, the Spacetime Trio, the Lake Trio, and the Weather Trio. The Tao Trio has nothing to do with the world's creation and they were never said to have actually created anything, really; they merely represent the concepts of truth and ideals. They did not create them.
    Yeah they were just sort of already around. Incredibly powerful being(s) that took part in the brother's battles with one another and wound up destroying the region.
    The energy theme and the ideals/truths thing was more incidental

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    I doubt it'd be in Hoenn, let's not forget that the region has the mythology of Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogre, so I can't see a fit with the Hoenn trio and the Original Dragon (assuming GameFreak designs the Dragon). And we can't really say Generation V is ending yet...look at the people who thought Black and White would be Gen V's swan song until GameFreak pulled up sequels and surprised us. I'd wait to see what GF does before declaring it the end of Gen V.
    That's why I thought. Rayquaza was the first Dragon version mascot (although Lugia is based on a dragon, he's not one, and Charizard doesn't count for not being Legendary), so a RSE remake would be a good place (maybe) to introduce them if they want to do this on a non-Isshu game.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    I am in full support of this theory, I've even said something similar to what you said. Except, I focused more on symmetry of the Kyurem formes. For instance, look at the formes.





    Notice something? Yup, the formes are very asymmetrical and take a side. For instance, Black Kyurem's right arm and wing are naturally black while it's left side is not. On White Kyurem's left arm and wing, it's naturally white while its right side is not. Now this could represent how each Dragon forme represents yin and yang respectively. Now it would make more sense for the OD to be full and symmetrical, hence why I think Kyurem needs both Zekrom and Reshiram in order to be complete.
    I was thinking in an almost symmetrical mix of the two forms, with only the horns being different, and being white and red on the left, black and blue on the right, and grey in some parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Yeah they were just sort of already around. Incredibly powerful being(s) that took part in the brother's battles with one another and wound up destroying the region.
    The energy theme and the ideals/truths thing was more incidental
    I heard it was also mentioned they gave truth and ideals to the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyBlueLatios View Post
    Their BW2 dex entries say Reshiram and Zekrom help people build a world of truth and ideals respectively.
    Yes, and remember that the Dex entries are basically just descriptions written by the player based on what they've heard/observed. So it's not a totally reliable source, at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endolise View Post
    Yes, and remember that the Dex entries are basically just descriptions written by the player based on what they've heard/observed. So it's not a totally reliable source, at least.
    Nothing in the series has said that it's the players just writing the entries.
    Don't make things up when there's plenty of other reasons the dex is a bit unreliable (how many slow pokemon are said to be blazing fast again?)

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    My vision about the OD:

    I came to look that Black Kyurem, as Zekrom , are the only ones who have arms, in comparison to Reshiram and White Kyurem. So I'll guess that White Kyurem's arms are supposed to be the same with Black Kyurem's wings.
    The details on Kyurem-W's chest also would merge with Kyurem-B's chest, overlapping it. The same goes to the head, with Kyurem-B's face but Kyurem-W's details. Finally, all frozen parts should defrost, and the parts that are similar between the two formes, such as the legs, would be kept as they are.
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    Last edited by Krainz; 21st July 2012 at 11:15 AM.

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    I really think it looked like a uniform dragon, not a mashup like Black/White Kyurem.

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    The edge of the wings come from Zekrom, and the beginning of them come from Reshiram. Because Zekrom had tiny, but well-defined wings and Reshiram had big, but very simple ones.

    The arms come from Zekrom/Kyurem-B, the pose is an in-between of Kyurem-B's and Kyurem-W's, and the head is a mix bewteen both's.

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    I could cook up a pic but it will still be nothing more than speculation. Also, Kyurem and it formes look the way they do for a reason. Kyurem is never whole and needs Reshiram and or Zekrom to be complete hench it asymmetrical design.


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    I'm also interested in seeing what the OD was like. I think if we ever do, though, it'll probably be either in 6th gen or further down the road (if for some reason they decide to revisit Unova in a future generation for whatever reason). 5th gen already seems like it's kind of run its course, so I doubt we'll be getting a BW3 or something with the OD this gen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
    My vision about the OD:
    The original Kyurem shouldn't have any ice on any part of its body. The ice symbolizes Wuji, which means the absence of yin/yang. Hence why Black Kyurem and White Kyurem has ice to fill in the missing parts of its body, and Kyurem is covered even more in ice, because no Reshiram/Zekrom parts are present, unlike Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. The ice on the Kyurem's are supposed to represent that parts of its body are missing.

    That is why Reshiram and Zekrom don't have any ice, because they became complete dragons of their own, and Kyurem became severely incomplete. The OD would contain no ice whatsoever, because it would be a complete dragon, unlike Kyurem, where all formes are incomplete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    I doubt it'd be in Hoenn, let's not forget that the region has the mythology of Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogre, so I can't see a fit with the Hoenn trio and the Original Dragon (assuming GameFreak designs the Dragon). And we can't really say Generation V is ending yet...look at the people who thought Black and White would be Gen V's swan song until GameFreak pulled up sequels and surprised us. I'd wait to see what GF does before declaring it the end of Gen V.
    Funnily enough, if you look ar Ruby and Sapphire items from FR/LG descriptions:

    Sappphire: An exquisitely beautiful gem that has a blue glow. It symbolizes honesty.

    Ruby: An exquisitely beautiful gem that has a red glow. It symbolizes passion.

    Though this doesn't necessarily prove anything, of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Rush View Post
    The original Kyurem shouldn't have any ice on any part of its body. The ice symbolizes Wuji, which means the absence of yin/yang. Hence why Black Kyurem and White Kyurem has ice to fill in the missing parts of its body, and Kyurem is covered even more in ice, because no Reshiram/Zekrom parts are present, unlike Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. The ice on the Kyurem's are supposed to represent that parts of its body are missing.
    I know, I just was too lazy to defrost that OD of mine in Photoshop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Rush View Post
    That is why Reshiram and Zekrom don't have any ice, because they became complete dragons of their own, and Kyurem became severely incomplete. The OD would contain no ice whatsoever, because it would be a complete dragon, unlike Kyurem, where all formes are incomplete.
    Chillax, this was just a concept

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    Actually this does bring up an interesting topic of discussion: was Kyurem really a part of the OD? Based on its description in BW2, it doesn't seem like it. So if not, why is it connected to Reshiram and Zekrom?
    Last edited by Bolt the Cat; 21st July 2012 at 7:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Actually this does bring up an interesting topic of discussion: was Kyurem really a part of the OD? Based on its description in BW2, it doesn't seem like it. So if not, why is it connected to Reshiram and Zekrom?
    Think of it as Nincada, Shedinja and Ninjask. Was Shedinja a part of Nincada? Do you need to merge Shedinja and Ninjask to get Nincada again?

    Or think about an egg. When you crack it and get the yolk and the white, there's still the shell that was left behind, which contained both yolk and white.
    Last edited by Krainz; 21st July 2012 at 7:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
    Think of it as Nincada, Shedinja and Ninjask. Was Shedinja a part of Nincada? Do you need to merge Shedinja and Ninjask to get Nincada again?

    Or think about an egg. When you crack it and get the yolk and the white, there's still the shell that was left behind, which contained both yolk and white.
    Where is it specifically said that Kyurem is part of the OD?
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Where is it specifically said that Kyurem is part of the OD?
    Where is it specifically said that Shedinja is part of Nincada?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Actually this does bring up an interesting topic of discussion: was Kyurem really a part of the OD? Based on its description in BW2, it doesn't seem like it. So if not, why is it connected to Reshiram and Zekrom?
    This legendary ice Pokémon waits for a hero to fill in the missing parts of its body with truth or ideals.
    I don't know what you're saying as the BW2 Pokedex says otherwise.

    Why else would a Pokemon need a specific hero, or truth/ideals? So obviously there's some sort of connection to Reshiram and Zekrom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    I don't know what you're saying as the BW2 Pokedex says otherwise.

    Why else would a Pokemon need a specific hero, or truth/ideals? So obviously there's some sort of connection to Reshiram and Zekrom.
    The question isn't whether there is a connection or not; it is about either actually being a part of the Original Dragon or just a leftover from the division.

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    It's probably just a leftover. The original dragon split in half, yin and yang, duality, there's no room for anything else as a result of the division.

    Kyurem is wuji, emptiness, it's the empty shell that was left behind. Even Ghetsis calls it an empty shell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver-mont View Post
    It's probably just a leftover. The original dragon split in half, yin and yang, duality, there's no room for anything else as a result of the division.

    Kyurem is wuji, emptiness, it's the empty shell that was left behind. Even Ghetsis calls it an empty shell.
    Yeah, like having a cup of orange juice. You split the juice into orange and water... and Kyurem is the empty cup.

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