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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyshore.com View Post



    4) and finally, there is way too much http://sunyshore.com/scrap/blackkyurem2.png electricity (and fire in reshirem's side) for these two to not gain back their electric/fire typings. i think the real question is, then, not "what types will they be", but "will they lose dragon or ice".

    which is a hard one to say, but as they keep calling them dragons, well.
    but the exclusive signature moves that it gets in the powered up state are ice type. With the exception of Genesect, signature moves are generally of the Pokemon's type.

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    I honestly hope it just remains Ice/Dragon. I mean it's Kyurem for the most part. They shouldn't even think about changing it's typing.

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    Anyone think GF got the idea of the Kyurem formes from DBZ. In the movie trailer it shows Kyurem just absorbing their energy. It's like they slapped Cell and Super Buu together. Cell could absorb energy and Super Buu gained the looks and moves of some of the Z Fighters he absorbed. Plus they've sort of done it before Rayquaza=shenron and Mewtwo=Frieza.

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  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Anyone think GF got the idea of the Kyurem formes from DBZ. In the movie trailer it shows Kyurem just absorbing their energy. It's like they slapped Cell and Super Buu together. Cell could absorb energy and Super Buu gained the looks and moves of some of the Z Fighters he absorbed. Plus they've sort of done it before Rayquaza=shenron and Mewtwo=Frieza.
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  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowyarticuno View Post
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    Oh come on Snowy you know it is similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowyarticuno View Post
    but the exclusive signature moves that it gets in the powered up state are ice type. With the exception of Genesect, signature moves are generally of the Pokemon's type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    I honestly hope it just remains Ice/Dragon. I mean it's Kyurem for the most part. They shouldn't even think about changing it's typing.
    And these are why it's typing probably won't change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowyarticuno View Post
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  7. #507
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    does anyone think that the legendaries in BW will be unavailable in the sequels? Like, how the bird trio and Mewtwo were unavailable in GSC (because Red presumably caught them)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1013 View Post
    does anyone think that the legendaries in BW will be unavailable in the sequels? Like, how the bird trio and Mewtwo were unavailable in GSC (because Red presumably caught them)?
    Zekrom and Reshiram are the only two options for being unobtainable. All the other legends were optional.

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    I'd say only Rashiram and Zakrom isn't avaliable as it was reqiured capture. Rest of them were optional and as such not Cannon.


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    I could see the muskedeers being gone either because they were captured or because their areas changed in some way and they moved to unknown places. The bird trio were optional and they were made unavailable GSC, so I say it could happen to the muskedeers. I don't know how likely or unlikely it is though. It's a toss up imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1013 View Post
    I could see the muskedeers being gone either because they were captured or because their areas changed in some way and they moved to unknown places. The bird trio were optional and they were made unavailable GSC, so I say it could happen to the muskedeers. I don't know how likely or unlikely it is though. It's a toss up imo
    The only reason the birds weren't there in GSC was because of lack of Data space(same for Mewtwo) All 4 were brought back in HGSS anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    The only reason the birds weren't there in GSC was because of lack of Data space(same for Mewtwo) All 4 were brought back in HGSS anyway.
    I was unaware that that was the reason. That's kind of lame lol

    I didn't really like that HGSS brought them back tbh. I liked that they were gone
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    The only reason the birds weren't there in GSC was because of lack of Data space(same for Mewtwo) All 4 were brought back in HGSS anyway.
    That and they wanted the focus to remain on Johto.
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  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1013 View Post
    I was unaware that that was the reason. That's kind of lame lol

    I didn't really like that HGSS brought them back tbh. I liked that they were gone
    why? not that i missed them or anything.
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  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stymie View Post
    why? not that i missed them or anything.
    because years had passed in-universe, and I remember reading somewhere that because of renovations that occurred during those years (like the power plant), they moved. I thought this was pretty cool, because the actions of humans affected the living space of the pokemon. In mewtwo's case, there was the assumption that red challenged/captured it previously, so it made sense that it wouldn't be there 2 years later. Even if it was optional, who honestly wouldn't go into the Challenger's Cave when given the ability too?

    Their absence added to the experience for me I guess?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1013 View Post
    because years had passed in-universe, and I remember reading somewhere that because of renovations that occurred during those years (like the power plant), they moved. I thought this was pretty cool, because the actions of humans affected the living space of the pokemon. In mewtwo's case, there was the assumption that red challenged/captured it previously, so it made sense that it wouldn't be there 2 years later. Even if it was optional, who honestly wouldn't go into the Challenger's Cave when given the ability too?

    Their absence added to the experience for me I guess?
    I see your point.

    Additionally it allowed Johto to develop its character and showcase its pokemon, even though the GS games were loved Johto always felt like the little sibling to Kanto or in Kanto's shadow which was really sad. To me it was the most boring region but had my favourite set of pokemon.
    ORAS? I'm excited

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  17. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    And these are why it's typing probably won't change.
    It actually makes considerably far less sense for both of these forms to only gain STAB on two special moves of the same type (that even the base form receives STAB on), rather than making forms which specifically has fire/electric special moves and gaining STAB off of them. I don't think Ice is very likely anymore.

    Especially with this in mind from a Smogon poster:

    This is as detailed for an explanation as I can give on Kyurem:

    Kyurem alludes to the absence of energy and the concept of absolute zero.
    Zekrom & Reshiram are Yin & Yang or energy.

    Kyurem has nothing. He's a blank, white canvas. Ice represents that.

    Now consider Reshiram "Red Paint". You put red paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Red.You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Fire. The Ice has been replaced by Fire.

    Now consider Zekrom "Blue Paint". You put blue paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Blue. You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Electric. The Ice has been replaced by Electric.

    Saying that Kyurem will still be Ice-Type after absorbing Zekrom or Reshiram is saying that the canvas is still empty when there's paint all over it.

    That is the absolute best way I can describe Kyurem & his Forms.

  18. #518
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    This is as detailed for an explanation as I can give on Kyurem:

    Kyurem alludes to the absence of energy and the concept of absolute zero.
    Zekrom & Reshiram are Yin & Yang or energy.

    Kyurem has nothing. He's a blank, white canvas. Ice represents that.

    Now consider Reshiram "Red Paint". You put red paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Red.You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Fire. The Ice has been replaced by Fire.

    Now consider Zekrom "Blue Paint". You put blue paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Blue. You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Electric. The Ice has been replaced by Electric.

    Saying that Kyurem will still be Ice-Type after absorbing Zekrom or Reshiram is saying that the canvas is still empty when there's paint all over it.

    That is the absolute best way I can describe Kyurem & his Forms.
    I think the Smogon poster is a little off.

    Yes, Kyurem in his BW1 form is an empty canvas. But in his new forms, half the ice is still on his body.

    That gives me the impression its more like this: the red/blue paint takes only half of the canvas. That means half the canvas is left empty, and emptiness is resembled by ice.

    The reason I think this is because the legends say Reshiram and Zekrom were once one dragon.This dragon looks to have been Kyurem before the heat and electric energies were ripped from him. That means, when Kyurem absorbs Reshiram or Zekrom, he is only absorbing half the energy he once had. That means half the energy is still missing, and why he has ice on his body.

    I believe the new forms will be Fire/Ice and Electric/Ice.

    Now, if an ultimate, whole form of Kyurem did indeed exist, he would resemble a painting half filled with red paint and half filled with blue paint, leaving no part of the canvas empty. Then the ice typing would be gone, and the dragon would be Fire/Electric.
    Last edited by TWN; 16th March 2012 at 5:46 PM.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    I think the Smogon poster is a little off.

    Yes, Kyurem in his BW1 form is an empty canvas. But in his new forms, half the ice is still on his body.

    That gives me the impression its more like this: the red/blue paint takes only half of the canvas. That means half the canvas is left empty, and emptiness is resembled by ice.

    The reason I think this is because the legends say Reshiram and Zekrom were once one dragon.This dragon looks to have been Kyurem before the heat and electric energies were ripped from him. That means, when Kyurem absorbs Reshiram or Zekrom, he is only absorbing half the energy he once had. That means half the energy is still missing, and why he has ice on his body.

    I believe the new forms will be Fire/Ice and Electric/Ice.

    Now, if an ultimate, whole form of Kyurem did indeed exist, he would resemble a painting half filled with red paint and half filled with blue paint, leaving no part of the canvas empty. Then the ice typing would be gone, and the dragon would be Fire/Electric.
    Good points, all. I'd like to point out that something doesn't have to be Dragon type to be considered a dragon. Like Charizard, or even Horsea.

    EDIT: Can't believe I forgot Gyarados, and I'm sure there've been others.
    Last edited by Wasarym; 16th March 2012 at 5:59 PM.
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  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasarym View Post
    Good points, all. I'd like to point out that something doesn't have to be Dragon type to be considered a dragon. Like Charizard, or even Horsea.

    EDIT: Can't believe I forgot Gyarados, and I'm sure there've been others.
    Exactly, the dragon typing is disposable. Plus, the emphasis of these dragons is their energies; the fact that they're dragons is of little importance as to what they represent.

  21. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Exactly, the dragon typing is disposable. Plus, the emphasis of these dragons is their energies; the fact that they're dragons is of little importance as to what they represent.
    I would think that what they represent is of little importance as to the fact that they're dragons. Since this is pokemon, not some overly symbolic and meticulous series.

    I'm not really feeling any type changes coming with the Kyurem forms. The way I'm seeing it atm, he's absorbing their power, gaining some aesthetic changes and a boost to his own strength. The unreleased signature moves have me feeling he'll stay Ice/Dragon.

    Ice/Fire and Ice/Electric sound horrible, but we'll see

    EDIT
    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    Ice represents Kyurem's nothingness, absolute zero and the philosophy of Wuji. Like the canvas analogy, how can you be "half nothing"?
    I would think of that like a glass being half empty...
    Last edited by Ansem1013; 16th March 2012 at 6:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Yes, Kyurem in his BW1 form is an empty canvas. But in his new forms, half the ice is still on his body.
    Yeah, going by "appearance isn't the best way to make a point". Regigigas has Grass on it, is it a Grass-type?

    That gives me the impression its more like this: the red/blue paint takes only half of the canvas. That means half the canvas is left empty, and emptiness is resembled by ice.
    Buddy, there is still something on the canvas. There is no "half empty". Something is there, or it's not.

    The reason I think this is because the legends say Reshiram and Zekrom were once one dragon. This dragon looks to have been Kyurem before the heat and electric energies were ripped from him. That means, when Kyurem absorbs Reshiram or Zekrom, he is only absorbing half the energy he once had. That means half the energy is still missing, and why he has ice on his body.
    Ice represents Kyurem's nothingness, absolute zero and the philosophy of Wuji. Like the canvas analogy, how can you be "half nothing"?

    I believe the new forms will be Fire/Ice and Electric/Ice.
    Highly unlikely considering the whole point of the trio is being referred to as "Dragons". Not to mention their primary type is Dragon.

    Now, if an ultimate, whole form of Kyurem did indeed exist

    And it won't, as that makes absolutely zero sense.

    , he would resemble a painting half filled with red paint and half filled with blue paint, leaving no part of the canvas empty. Then the ice typing would be gone, and the dragon would be Fire/Electric.
    ...Then it wouldn't be a Dragon.

    Good points, all. I'd like to point out that something doesn't have to be Dragon type to be considered a dragon. Like Charizard, or even Horsea.
    Note how all of your examples are all in generation 1, and the only type with Dragon was a single evolutionary family?

    I don't recall Charizard or Horsea being considered a Dragon anywhere; and Horsea becomes Dragon in it's final evolution.
    Last edited by Sonikku za Hejjihoggu; 16th March 2012 at 6:28 PM.

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    Yeah, going by "appearance isn't the best way to make a point". Regigigas has Grass on it, is it a Grass-type?
    No, but the grass on Regigigas is just a meaningless aesthetic effect; we know for a fact that Kyurem has an association with ice (the BW1 form proves that). So subsequent forms logically would have that same association with their appearance.


    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    Buddy, there is still something on the canvas. There is no "half empty". Something is there, or it's not.
    If you only paint half of the canvas, then the other half is empty. Is this that hard of a concept to grasp?


    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    Ice represents Kyurem's nothingness, absolute zero and the philosophy of Wuji. Like the canvas analogy, how can you be "half nothing"?
    If you have a glass that contains nothing, then fill it halfway with water, then it has half nothing. Think of Kyurem as the glass and the water as Reshiram's/Zekrom's energy.

    Ice represents nothingness. The new Kyurem forms are covered in ice, but only half to the extent as before (look at the new forms' arms and heads). How could it be any more obvious?


    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    Highly unlikely considering the whole point of the trio is being referred to as "Dragons". Not to mention their primary type is Dragon.
    Being dragon's not the whole point of the trio. Their energy is what makes them significant, not the fact that they're dragons. The designers just made them dragons so they would look cool. Just because a Pokemon resembles a dragon doesn't mean it always has to have a dragon typing attached to it. Look at Charizard, look at Gyarados.

    And it won't, as that makes absolutely zero sense.
    HOW? There's even a legend about it in BW1!

    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    ...Then it wouldn't be a Dragon.
    WHY NOT?

  24. #524

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    No, but the grass on Regigigas is just a meaningless aesthetic effect; we know for a fact that Kyurem has an association with ice (the BW1 form proves that). So subsequent forms logically would have that same association with their appearance.
    What's stopping that from being the same thing, then? Appearance doesn't always dictate everything.

    We know for a fact that Kyurem has an association with ice (the BW1 form proves that). So subsequent forms logically would have that same association with their appearance.
    Rotom's forms were initially all Ghost type for whatever reason. Guess what happened in generation 5? You're not making a good point. At all. And again with this appearance nonsense. Why do all forms have to be ice type, when there's a very obvious and massive emphasis on fire/electricity with the both of them? What sense does it make removing the trio's associated typing *Dragon* rather than Ice? Please tell me.

    If you only paint half of the canvas, then the other half is empty. Is this that hard of a concept to grasp?
    I'd advise you to use a dictionary as that makes NO logical sense.

    If you have a glass that contains nothing, then fill it halfway with water, then it has half nothing.
    Refer to the above.

    Think of Kyurem as the glass and the water as Reshiram's/Zekrom's energy.
    No.

    Ice represents nothingness. The new Kyurem forms are covered in ice, but only half to the extent as before (look at the new forms' arms and heads). How could it be any more obvious?
    Appearance argument yet again.

    Being dragon's not the whole point of the trio.
    The mythologies of the trio are implied to be connected, despite having no true relation. The origins of Zekrom and Reshiram are told in legends, as they were once a single powerful Dragon Pokémon used by twin heroes in order to create the Unova region. But the brothers each sought something different in life—truth for the older brother and ideals for the younger—and they began to argue, then fight, over who's side was right. The single dragon, in response, split into two Pokémon: Reshiram, who sided with the older twin, and Zekrom, who sided with the younger twin.
    Their energy is what makes them significant, not the fact that they're dragons.
    More like an obvious plasma reference with Fire/Electricity. Pretty much what plasma, hot (fire) and ionized (electric) gas is.

    The designers just made them dragons so they would look cool.
    Hahahahahaha.


    Just because a Pokemon resembles a dragon doesn't mean it always has to have a dragon typing attached to it. Look at Charizard, look at Gyarados.
    Why are you contradicting yourself? And Charizard/Gyarados have NEVER been called or acknowledged as "Dragons" under ANY official means. You only get the egg group to argue with if you want to bring that up. And it means next to nothing.

    HOW? There's even a legend about it in BW1!
    Why would there be a "whole" form of Kyurem if it was NOTHING to begin with? People need to stop running the assumption that he's THE Unova Dragon spoken of in legend. It isn't.


    WHY NOT?
    Above points.
    Last edited by Sonikku za Hejjihoggu; 16th March 2012 at 7:12 PM.

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by A d v e n t™ View Post
    Why are you contradicting yourself? And Charizard/Gyarados have NEVER been called or acknowledged as "Dragons" under ANY official means. You only get the egg group to argue with if you want to bring that up. And it means next to nothing.
    Lance the dragon master.

    EDIT: Admittably, not much pokemon were dragon type until gen 3. Just Dratini and its evolutions.
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