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Thread: Storyline and Characters Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #2601
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    Does anyone think the Shadow Triad are really Dialga, Palkia, & Giratina in human form? After all, they had the Adamant, Lustrous, and Griseous orbs, and they seemed to have inhuman abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    Yeah. It's for kids basically. But I think that's only their front.

    If you think about it, Pokemon is not just a simple kids game. Why do you think EVs, IVs, Abilties, Natures, Breeding, The Battle Frontier and other complex battle aspects are implemented in the games? Because they know that there are competitive and skilled players out there. Also, I'm pretty sure that they are aware that majority of the fanbase are already old and experienced players.

    It would be nice if they raise the difficulty level a bit. And when we say 'difficulty', it's not limited to Pokemon levels alone.

    Unova was a bit too easy compared to the previous games because you can gain levels easily and quickly. Also because the forests/caves aren't as puzzling as before. Even the gym puzzles are pretty straightforward. Some trainers have mediocre teams while some others (including important trainers) have mediocre Pokemon in their parties.

    I understand that the game should still be at a level of difficulty where kids don't find themselves stuck all the time because of insanely perplexing puzzles or because of losing to in-game trainers with very competitive teams. It would just be great if BW2 will offer more puzzles and give us battles that would push us to make good teams.
    I thought that Unova was really easy too. I remember breezing through my Black in a week or so (and I wasn't playing 24/7, mind you). I just figured it was because I was 21 at the time, but a 3rd grader would find it as hard as any other Pokemon game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ememew View Post
    No, what mattered was that there were new Pokemon and moves introduced between the games. What's been said suggests that should Gamefreak include new Pokemon/moves between B/W and B/W2, they could use a Time Capsule-like device to allow for trading between the games, regardless of whether or not it's "set in the future" or a "different generation."

    They're not saying this will be done. They're saying if it is done, there is already precedent suggesting that the games could still be compatible.

    It wouldn't even have to be called a Time Capsule. They could just have a "B/W mode" and "B/W 2 mode" available when connecting with other games that you select from the B/W 2 menu when trading/battling. In the former, you can only use what was available in B/W, in the latter, you can use anything. The former could connect to any B/W games and B/W 2 games running in B/W mode, the latter would only be able to connect to B/W 2 (and any games introduced after them in Gen V).
    The compatibility between the games is what defines a Pokemon generation. For example, the reason HeartGold and SoulSilver are a part of Generation IV instead of being considered their own generation is because they go by the same mechanics as and are completely compatible with Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum. Putting new Pokemon in BW2 would make the games a new generation because they would not be fully compatible with BW1 (the games wouldn't be able to battle each other and trading would be seriously hindered). One of the big reasons behind the "form" mechanic is so Game Freak could introduce new Pokemon designs mid-generation without tampering with the compatibility between the games within that generation. And that's why the covers of Black 2 and White 2 have forms of Kyurem on the front instead of brand new Pokemon.

    Having said that, what you're suggesting is near-impossible, but a possibility nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex&er View Post
    Does anyone think the Shadow Triad are really Dialga, Palkia, & Giratina in human form? After all, they had the Adamant, Lustrous, and Griseous orbs, and they seemed to have inhuman abilities.
    Never heard that theory before. But why would Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina want to help Ghetsis?
    The only thing that could possibly support this is the orbs, and that was probably just because the game creators needed some way to make the orbs available and that was the most convenient excuse to do so.

    I remember someone speculating that they were Cilan, Cress, and Chili because they were the only gym leaders not present at the end of the game and Bianca even mentions that she couldn't find them. However, this is probably just because there are only seven sages and there's ten gym leaders, so it makes sense to leave out the ones that are a trio. Besides, I can't see how they'd pull off Evil Cilan in the anime.

    The most likely scenario is either they'll be new characters, or they won't appear in BW2, or they appear in BW2 and still never reveal their identity.
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    Just because "Pokemon is for kids" doesn't mean they can't raise the difficulty. What, are kids too stupid to play difficult games? Yeah right. The 1st Generation Pokemon games are significantly harder than later games (Champion topped out at Lv65, they actually bothered to lower it to Lv63 in FR/LG), but that didn't stop me and many other little kids from beating the (relatively) harder Gen I games.

    Kids aren't that stupid, guys. You should know since all of you guys were kids once. I bet nearly all of you have beaten difficult games as a kid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    The compatibility between the games is what defines a Pokemon generation. For example, the reason HeartGold and SoulSilver are a part of Generation IV instead of being considered their own generation is because they go by the same mechanics as and are completely compatible with Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum. Putting new Pokemon in BW2 would make the games a new generation because they would not be fully compatible with BW1 (the games wouldn't be able to battle each other and trading would be seriously hindered). One of the big reasons behind the "form" mechanic is so Game Freak could introduce new Pokemon designs mid-generation without tampering with the compatibility between the games within that generation. And that's why the covers of Black 2 and White 2 have forms of Kyurem on the front instead of brand new Pokemon.

    Having said that, what you're suggesting is near-impossible, but a possibility nonetheless.
    Um . . . right? I wasn't suggesting this. I was saying this to interpret what previous posters were saying. Someone said it would be "impossible" to introduce new Pokemon, someone else said the Time Capsule suggested otherwise. I'm talking about "compatibility" as opposed to "what makes a generation" when I'm suggesting that a similar function could be included in B/W 2 to allow for compatibility should new things be involved.

    I agree that the introduction of new Pokemon is highly unlikely. I was just saying how it could be done should Gamefreak ever want to incorporate new Pokemon mid-generation (as the makers of the games are the ones who really determine what constitutes a generation rather than compatibility rules - I mean, what would you call it if they ever decided to add in just a few extra species between games, for example?).
    Last edited by Ememew; 8th April 2012 at 9:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex&er View Post
    Does anyone think the Shadow Triad are really Dialga, Palkia, & Giratina in human form? After all, they had the Adamant, Lustrous, and Griseous orbs, and they seemed to have inhuman abilities.
    never heard this before...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ememew View Post
    Um . . . right? I wasn't suggesting this. I was saying this to interpret what previous posters were saying. Someone said it would be "impossible" to introduce new Pokemon, someone else said the Time Capsule suggested otherwise. I'm talking about "compatibility" as opposed to "what makes a generation" when I'm suggesting that a similar function could be included in B/W 2 to allow for compatibility should new things be involved.

    I agree that the introduction of new Pokemon is highly unlikely. I was just saying how it could be done should Gamefreak ever want to incorporate new Pokemon mid-generation (as the makers of the games are the ones who really determine what constitutes a generation rather than compatibility rules - I mean, what would you call it if they ever decided to add in just a few extra species between games, for example?).
    I'm sorry, I haven't been reading the conversations carefully. Yes, that would allow for compatibility, but since the games wouldn't be fully compatible counterparts, adding new Pokemon would technically make BW2 its own generation. Because of that, Game Freak would probably just opt for the better-developed mode of compatibility they used between Generations III and IV and between Generations IV and V (one-way transfers), instead of using the obsolete and ever-complicated Time Capsule again.

    The only way Pokemon could be added mid-Generation is on a console that has memory storage and allows for downloadable content (downloadable from the Internet AND from another handheld). Otherwise, the games in the generation wouldn't be compatible enough to be considered a generation. The DS doesn't fit that description, so it's impossible that BW2 will get new Pokemon unless the games are a new generation.

    However, the possibility of BW2 being a new generation is so incredibly unlikely to happen that it's not really worthy of discussion. It's safe to assume BW2 is a part of Generation V, especially since they used a Generation V Pokemon for the box covers.

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    Are generations actually a term used within the games and by The Pokémon Company themselves, or is it just a term used by fans? Either way, these games could break the conventions any time they want to, I know some of us won't like change, but what's to say that they could add new Pokémon in Black 2 and White 2? There's nothing for or against this idea, but I'm just trying to keep a open mind about everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icy Meteor View Post
    Are generations actually a term used within the games and by The Pokémon Company themselves, or is it just a term used by fans? Either way, these games could break the conventions any time they want to, I know some of us won't like change, but what's to say that they could add new Pokémon in Black 2 and White 2? There's nothing for or against this idea, but I'm just trying to keep a open mind about everything.
    It's a term used by the fans. Therefore, if they do add new Pokemon to B/W2 then it is a new generation and would have no compatibility, or limited compatibility as was the case with First and Second Gen. However the Time Capsule hasn't been used since it was first created, and I'm sure there's a reason for that. I don't see it ever returning.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ememew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    No we don't, because they're still in the same generation, the time between them doesn't matter. Gold and Silver could have taken place concurrently with Red and Blue, what mattered was that they were a different generation.
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    Thank you for understanding and explaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Yes, that would allow for compatibility, but since the games wouldn't be fully compatible counterparts, adding new Pokemon would technically make BW2 its own generation.
    No it wouldn't. The new Pokemon would very likely be grouped in with the current 5th Gen Pokemon--especially since they'd be found in Unova, where BW2 are set. Nobody is suggesting we make BW2 a new generation. Think more along the lines of what happened in DP, with the post-Dex evolutions. We'd still be in the 5th Gen if they were introduced this late.

    Would it be clearer if we stated how many Pokemon could potentially be introduced? I personally would say around 30 or less. I don't think anybody is thinking we could get another 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWN
    The only way Pokemon could be added mid-Generation is on a console that has memory storage and allows for downloadable content (downloadable from the Internet AND from another handheld). Otherwise, the games in the generation wouldn't be compatible enough to be considered a generation. The DS doesn't fit that description, so it's impossible that BW2 will get new Pokemon unless the games are a new generation.
    ... oooooooooooor BW stay the way they are and BW2 feature the new Pokemon, and any communication between the two would just have to exclude the new Pokemon. Which is why something like the Time Capsule would be ideal, or a BW-mode or something. Communication would still be possible and likely easy to do, the new Pokemon would just have to remain BW2-only.

    It's not "impossible" in the least. Nobody is suggesting that Pokemon get downloaded into already-existing games except for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWN
    However, the possibility of BW2 being a new generation is so incredibly unlikely to happen that it's not really worthy of discussion. It's safe to assume BW2 is a part of Generation V, especially since they used a Generation V Pokemon for the box covers.
    Luckily, the unworthy discussion of if BW2 will be a new generation is not the same discussion we're having here. We're saying BW2 would still be 5th Gen. Again, you're the one who brought up the alternative.

  12. #2612
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    "... oooooooooooor BW stay the way they are and BW2 feature the new Pokemon, and any communication between the two would just have to exclude the new Pokemon.:


    this is my vote. i 100% believe we will get some new pokemon.
    Last edited by sunyshore.com; 9th April 2012 at 2:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grei View Post
    ... oooooooooooor BW stay the way they are and BW2 feature the new Pokemon, and any communication between the two would just have to exclude the new Pokemon. Which is why something like the Time Capsule would be ideal, or a BW-mode or something. Communication would still be possible and likely easy to do, the new Pokemon would just have to remain BW2-only.

    It's not "impossible" in the least. Nobody is suggesting that Pokemon get downloaded into already-existing games except for you.
    And that would make it a new generation. They can add cross-generation compatibility, they've just only done it once and never since, so it's probably not as easy as you might think.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Icy Meteor View Post
    Are generations actually a term used within the games and by The Pokémon Company themselves, or is it just a term used by fans? Either way, these games could break the conventions any time they want to, I know some of us won't like change, but what's to say that they could add new Pokémon in Black 2 and White 2? There's nothing for or against this idea, but I'm just trying to keep a open mind about everything.
    These games comes out one and a half years after Black and White, so it wouldn't seem likely they could come up with a new region, a new story line, new characters, different graphics, and 150 or so new Pokemon within that time.
    No sig. Deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyshore.com View Post
    ... oooooooooooor BW stay the way they are and BW2 feature the new Pokemon, and any communication between the two would just have to exclude the new Pokemon.
    this is my vote. i 100% believe we will get some new pokemon.
    I'm actually starting to see the possibility of having new Pokémon introduced in these games, Black and White have revolutionized the series so much, and I don't see Black 2 and White 2 stopping there.

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalzapdos View Post
    These games comes out one and a half years after Black and White, so it wouldn't seem likely they could come up with a new region, a new story line, new characters, different graphics, and 150 or so new Pokemon within that time.
    GameFreak have loads of unused ideas, Generation I concepts show the PokéDex exceeding 250 Pokémon, GameFreak could quite easily reuse old Pokémon designs if they chose to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    And that would make it a new generation. They can add cross-generation compatibility, they've just only done it once and never since, so it's probably not as easy as you might think.
    You keep claiming this would make it a new generation, but you haven't explained how yet. Because it wouldn't. They'd likely be grouped in with Gen 5 and I seriously doubt enough Pokemon would be introduced to constitute a new generation. Besides, a generation is defined by more than just the Pokemon--it's also arguably by the region and moves and abilities, too.

    Also, I hope you understand the obvious flaw in your logic about cross-generation compatibility. The Time Capsule never being used after Gen 2 doesn't somehow mean that it's really complicated. I imagine it's actually quite simple, especially now that we're not running on a Gameboy Color anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grei View Post
    You keep claiming this would make it a new generation, but you haven't explained how yet. Because it wouldn't. They'd likely be grouped in with Gen 5 and I seriously doubt enough Pokemon would be introduced to constitute a new generation. Besides, a generation is defined by more than just the Pokemon--it's also arguably by the region and moves and abilities, too.
    New Pokemon means a new Generation, just like if you were to have a child. That child belongs to a new generation. It doesn't necessarily have to be many, it just always has been, just like it's always been accompanied by a new region, it still doesn't have to be. Whenever new Pokemon come out, we classify them in a new generation.

    Also, I hope you understand the obvious flaw in your logic about cross-generation compatibility. The Time Capsule never being used after Gen 2 doesn't somehow mean that it's really complicated. I imagine it's actually quite simple, especially now that we're not running on a Gameboy Color anymore.
    The system doesn't matter, fact is it would be a nightmare to program. Programming two very different games to talk to each other is no simple task. Now, since B/W2 are using the same engine as B/W the base would be much easier but it doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of work to be done to make sure nothing can go through that didn't exist before, and then you have to try and test it all to make sure it actually works.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Icy Meteor View Post
    GameFreak have loads of unused ideas, Generation I concepts show the PokéDex exceeding 250 Pokémon, GameFreak could quite easily reuse old Pokémon designs if they chose to do so.
    True, but I still don't see why they would call it Black and White 2 then. If everything is going to be new, then why not just get their own names?
    No sig. Deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    New Pokemon means a new Generation, just like if you were to have a child. That child belongs to a new generation. It doesn't necessarily have to be many, it just always has been, just like it's always been accompanied by a new region, it still doesn't have to be. Whenever new Pokemon come out, we classify them in a new generation.

    and then if you have a second child, it's the same generation, it's just child #2 of the same generation

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    Jheez there are still some of us expecting new Pokemon... I'm not stating it won't happen for definite but it seems un-likely... The idea does sound really good though... Corocoro will hopefully slyly answer the questions of wether... there are new Pokemon, wether we start in a neighbour region, and if we have new protagonists...

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    Why're we wasting posts talking about new Pokemon. I'm sure we would've already seen some new Pokemon if there were going to be any. Plus we are just 2 months away from release which is not enough time to reveal completely new things(manly new Pokemon)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Why're we wasting posts talking about new Pokemon. I'm sure we would've already seen some new Pokemon if there were going to be any. Plus we are just 2 months away from release which is not enough time to reveal completely new things(manly new Pokemon)
    It's called... Speculating. It helps to make time feel faster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Why're we wasting posts talking about new Pokemon. I'm sure we would've already seen some new Pokemon if there were going to be any. Plus we are just 2 months away from release which is not enough time to reveal completely new things(manly new Pokemon)
    Yep I agree... But I really am curious to know why they have left everything but the Kyurem forms into the final 2 months... I do hope these games are 'sequels' with a new story-line etc and not a repeated 3rd version... I can't even express how inpatient I am for Corocoro...

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    I don't expect new Pokemon, but if we do get some, I only think they'll be evolutions or prevolutions to the Unova Pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjay View Post
    It's called... Speculating. It helps to make time feel faster.
    Hoping for new Pokemon in bw2 isn't speculating its gibberish.

    Reasons for no new Pokemon.
    1. Nothing new in the anime(besides keldeo and w/b kyurem and meloetta)
    2. Games are still called black and white, which further proves this is still 5th gen
    3. Smash or corocoro would've already shown new Pokemon
    4. The games were revealed too late for a new pair of games with new Pokemon and a new region
    5. It's too freaking soon.(it's only been a year and a half)

    Yes that is a Female Dino Charge Red. It's a FanFic thing
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