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Thread: Storyline and Characters Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #2801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadeledge View Post
    ZING!

    But seriously, the games are going to have Gyms and an elite 4 with a new story, different gym rosters, learn-sets, maybe some new gym leaders/elite-4 members, some additional back story on events from the first games, new characters, and reappearances of old characters.

    Things that the games WON'T have are a complete lack of gyms, new pokemon, ground breaking gameplay changes, new regions, etc.

    These are sequels, NOT a new generation.




    Who says they can't/won't do that? Who says that people aren't gonna buy the games if the changes you're talking about aren't there? Be honest, if the games don't have these things are you going to not buy them? Just because this was a sequel and NOT a new generation?
    So you think BW2 would sell the same if we did the same things that we did in BW1 as it would if we had a brand new set of goals and thus a brand new journey to experience? You don't think the games would sell more if they were advertised with a brand new set of activities instead of the same challenges we face in BW1? Is that really what you're suggesting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    Oh noes, they have reprogram all the interactions? These are already confirmed to be totally new stories, they're going to have to do that anyway.
    That's what I said, sir. Since they're reprogramming all the interactions anyway, why wouldn't they create an entirely new experience within the region instead of resorting to the same challenges we faced in BW1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    And what makes you think the journey will be so similar? All the games have gyms, and they're plenty different. Your logic makes no sense.
    But these are assumed to be the same Unova gyms from BW1. Which we already pursued in BW1. This game is a sequel to BW1; not a rehash. There's the logic.
    Last edited by TWN; 11th April 2012 at 6:27 PM.

  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Still, they're going to have to reprogram all the interactions in BW2 to make the game a different story. If they have to reprogram a whole new story, why would they make the journey so similar to BW1 instead of using the opportunity to do something new?
    Just look at what GameFreak did with Platinum...

  3. #2803
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    So you think BW2 would sell the same if we did the same things that we did in BW1 as it would if we had a brand new set of goals and thus a brand new journey to experience? You don't think the games would sell more if they were advertised with a brand new set of activities instead of the same challenges we face in BW1? Is that really what you're suggesting?
    Yes, because fans hate change.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    That's what I said, sir. Since they're reprogramming all the interactions anyway, why wouldn't they create an entirely new experience within the region instead of resorting to the same challenges we faced in BW1?
    They wouldn't be the same challenges. These are sequels, the game is not going to be carbon copy of BW, gyms or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    But these are assumed to be the same Unova gyms from BW1. Which we already pursued in BW1. This game is a sequel to BW1; not a rehash. There's the logic.
    Yeah, assumed. We have no idea if they'll have the same gyms or not. Even if they do, so what? The game will still sell a ton. The third versions make a ton of money despite people pretty much having played the game already. And these will be even more different from BW than a third version will be.

    Gyms are not going away, not in a main series game. That's like the main focus of the games. You might as well say they'll take out evolution.
    Formerly known as Jigglychu.

  4. #2804
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    Look.
    Its a sequel in the same generation.
    There wont be new pokemon.
    Meaning same starters and same legends encountered.

    Which then means that there will be no new hero while at the same time the events of BW cannot have passed already at the start of BW2.
    As the starters and legends would have been caught or defeated by the BW hero already.

    Which leads to the only logical and really simple conclusion:
    BW2 will be retelling BW.
    You will start in the same town, pick from the same starters from the same prof, and go north etc.
    Essentially up to E4 (with the main plot parts changed of course),
    but instead of the sudden ending, the story will continue (hence sequel/"2") and finish this time, as you travel the east side of Unova, with ACTUAL business instead of just hide&seek with the seemingly unimportant plasma sages.

    Viola
    Even makes sense about why east Unova felt like a boring postgame sidetrack without much of a purpose.
    (note how Kyurem was found there too anyway.)

    And obviously there will be the usual additions and improvements of details, upgraded subway, move tutors, etc etc.


    So dont get way too excited about it.
    Its still gonna be much better than a plain third version as the full story was planned for it in advance and will definitely be much more than just a few scenes changed.
    But consider that they're likely working on the next games as we speak if thats not good enough.
    Expect a normal third version and you'll love it.

    Personally I cant wait to see what they came up with, as BW (even though it had the most developed and deep story of any pkmn game) felt like ~75% done. With BW2 announced I realised why.

  5. #2805
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    I just wanna say that I hope those two fellas on the front aren't the new player characters. They look like they've come out of Orre, kupo!


    "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elice_Carol View Post
    I just wanna say that I hope those two fellas on the front aren't the new player characters. They look like they've come out of Orre, kupo!
    My theory is that these games take place long before B/W and these guys ended up fighting eachother and so came reshiram/zekrom/kyurem in existance.

  7. #2807
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    You really think that? The clothes are too futuristic to be hundreds of years old, and its a 'sequel', yet again, not a prequel. Also, it wouldnt make sense to have B and W Kyurem hundreds of years in the past and not in BW, or the present.

  8. #2808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    Look.
    Its a sequel in the same generation.
    There wont be new pokemon.
    Meaning same starters and same legends encountered.

    Which then means that there will be no new hero while at the same time the events of BW cannot have passed already at the start of BW2.
    As the starters and legends would have been caught or defeated by the BW hero already.

    Which leads to the only logical and really simple conclusion:
    BW2 will be retelling BW.
    You will start in the same town, pick from the same starters from the same prof, and go north etc.
    Essentially up to E4 (with the main plot parts changed of course),
    but instead of the sudden ending, the story will continue (hence sequel/"2") and finish this time, as you travel the east side of Unova, with ACTUAL business instead of just hide&seek with the seemingly unimportant plasma sages.
    I'm not sure I follow; why can't there be new player characters? There's more than one Snivy, Tepig, and Oshawott in the world.
    And plot-wise, only Reshiram/Zekrom was defeated. I don't understand why you think BW2 can't take place after BW. If that was the case, they wouldn't be calling it Black/White 2.
    BW2 is a sequel, so it starts sometime after BW ended; Ghetsis is escaped somewhere, N has a dragon, and Hilbert/Hilda has the other one. (which actually proves that there has to be new player characters; if Hilbert and Hilda were playable again, you'd start the game with a Legendary.) Now the new player character starts his/her journey and gets a Snivy, Tepig, or Oshawott.
    Formerly known as Jigglychu.

  9. #2809
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    mmm... guess you are right, i got my thoughts a little mixed up with the creation story of zekrom and reshiram sorry... but now i am slightly wondering how kyurem a pokemon who was said to come from a meteor got so mixed up with zekrom/reshiram... maby it is deoxys (now i am just talking nonsens so i will stop)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    And plot-wise, only Reshiram/Zekrom was defeated. I don't understand why you think BW2 can't take place after BW. If that was the case, they wouldn't be calling it Black/White 2.
    If they didn't call them Black/White 2, what would have they called them? Black/White+? Dark Grey and Light Grey? Black/White: Bigger, Longer, Uncut? While it may be the case the added the 2 because they were sequels, there's not much else they could've chosen instead without being inferior to just as simple '2'.
    Last edited by Aurath8; 11th April 2012 at 8:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  11. #2811
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    Hopefully all this debate would be solved tomorrow if we get more leaks and some information...

  12. #2812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    I'm not sure I follow; why can't there be new player characters? There's more than one Snivy, Tepig, and Oshawott in the world.
    And plot-wise, only Reshiram/Zekrom was defeated. I don't understand why you think BW2 can't take place after BW. If that was the case, they wouldn't be calling it Black/White 2.
    BW2 is a sequel, so it starts sometime after BW ended; Ghetsis is escaped somewhere, N has a dragon, and Hilbert/Hilda has the other one. (which actually proves that there has to be new player characters; if Hilbert and Hilda were playable again, you'd start the game with a Legendary.) Now the new player character starts his/her journey and gets a Snivy, Tepig, or Oshawott.
    Its going to take place at the same time as BW (ala parallel universe as with all versions of the same plot), but go further and actually continue the story big time, instead of just changing the main part like third versions did.

    With the dragons already caught you wouldnt have access to those yourself this time, making it the first final game of a generation with less main legendaries available instead of more.

    Without new pokemon there is no material to build a wole new plot on.
    Instead there is a few of legendaries in BW that weren't properly explored left (Kyurem in particular obviously), and half of the region with no plot to follow postgame...
    it screams "intentional" to me. Everything was set up in BW already, they just didn't give us the full story.



    Ghetsis needed N because the black/white dragons could not be awoken by him, if he takes a walk towards the east he might notice the big *** crater and finally find a dragon of his own...and seeing how Plasma made Genesect out of a fossil, it doesn't seem unreasonable that they have a hand in the whole Kyurem+fake tail=forme business, eh?
    Last edited by Mitja; 11th April 2012 at 9:23 PM.

  13. #2813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    Which then means that there will be no new hero while at the same time the events of BW cannot have passed already at the start of BW2.
    As the starters and legends would have been caught or defeated by the BW hero already.
    No it doesn't? By that logic you shouldn't be able to acquire Kanto Starters in HGSS because they're "gone". And the dragons don't matter, it doesn't say anywhere that they have to be available in these games, it's Kyurem on the cover. That doesn't prove anything.

    Which leads to the only logical and really simple conclusion:
    BW2 will be retelling BW.
    ..Or, it's a sequel like the, um, logical conclusion that the "2" in the title brings us to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    Its going to take place at the same time as BW (ala parallel universe as with all versions of the same plot), but go further and actually continue the story big time, instead of just changing the main part like third versions did.

    With the dragons already caught you wouldnt have access to those yourself this time, making it the first final game of a generation with less main legendaries available instead of more.
    I don't see how any of this makes your argument any more plausible or correct, or how it refutes Jigglychu's post.

    Without new pokemon there is no material to build a wole new plot on.
    Um, of course there is. Look at Colosseum: no new Pokemon there and it had a totally new plot. There could easily be a new story in this game, new Pokemon or not. Saying "the starters and dragons are gone" does not prove any of this B/

  14. #2814
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    I don't know if this is confirmed or disproved or not, but I want to post my thoughts since we don't have any other scans.

    Those two characters to the right of Meloetta are definitely new characters in BW2. At first I thought the shorter one was the girl and the taller one was the boy, but both of them had features that made them look like the opposite gender. Then I saw the rumour about the characters being the female and the male companion, and that makes a lot of sense. The girl, if it is one, has many features of a protagonist (hat, pale skin, same art style, backpack...). She almost looks like a fusion between Hilbert and Hilda.

    I need more info now.

        Spoiler:- Alpha Sapphire Progress:

  15. #2815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal_Qeca View Post
    Just look at what GameFreak did with Platinum...
    They didn't reprogram all the interactions in Platinum, because it was a rehash, not a sequel...so I don't know where you're going with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    Yes, because fans hate change.
    Nobody is going to avoid buying a Pokemon game because it has no gyms...that's just stupid. However, customers may avoid buying it if they perceive the experience to be too similar to a game they've already bought. Game Freak should be especially afraid of this perception because they have a reputation for releasing rehashes. Due to this reputation, I would think Game Freak would want to do something to truly set these games apart, to avoid the false perception that these games are rehashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    They wouldn't be the same challenges. These are sequels, the game is not going to be carbon copy of BW, gyms or not.
    Not a carbon copy, but very similar.

    BW1 summary: you journey through Unova to collect the Unova badges and challenge the Pokemon League.
    BW2 summary: you journey through Unova to collect the Unova badges and challenge the Pokemon League.

    Cool sequel, Game Freak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    Yeah, assumed. We have no idea if they'll have the same gyms or not.
    Good point, but I don't see them putting out 8 new gyms unless theres an entire new region to go along with it, which is extremely doubtful due to reasons involving money and time investments. But yes, new gyms would provide for a new experience as well if they somehow find a way to squeeze them in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    Even if they do, so what? The game will still sell a ton. The third versions make a ton of money despite people pretty much having played the game already. And these will be even more different from BW than a third version will be.
    Have you seen third version sales? They sell about a third of what new installments sell. That alone makes me think Game freak would want to avoid the perception that these games are a similar experience to BW1. How would they avoid that perception? Advertise the aesthetics that make the experience different. However, if the Unova gyms are part of the storyline again, the games just look like a rehash from a perspective buyer's standpoint.

    I journey through Unova to collect the Unova badges and challenge the Pokemon League? Dang it, it's a rehash. *Sale lost*

    Look at it from a business standpoint instead of a hardcore fan standpoint. Sure, all the hardcore fans are going to buy the games regardless, but theres a completely different audience that needs to be convinced via advertising. Making the games unnecessarily embody the same aesthetic layout as BW1 is not good for advertising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglychu View Post
    Gyms are not going away, not in a main series game. That's like the main focus of the games. You might as well say they'll take out evolution.
    Evolution is a core mechanic. Gyms are just an aesthetic to decorate a boss battle mechanic. I'm not suggesting the eight boss format be taken away, I just think it's stupid that we would fight the same bosses twice within two completely different storylines.

  16. #2816
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Sapphire Sceptile~ View Post
    No it doesn't? By that logic you shouldn't be able to acquire Kanto Starters in HGSS because they're "gone". And the dragons don't matter, it doesn't say anywhere that they have to be available in these games, it's Kyurem on the cover. That doesn't prove anything.

    ..Or, it's a sequel like the, um, logical conclusion that the "2" in the title brings us to.


    I don't see how any of this makes your argument any more plausible or correct, or how it refutes Jigglychu's post.


    Um, of course there is. Look at Colosseum: no new Pokemon there and it had a totally new plot. There could easily be a new story in this game, new Pokemon or not. Saying "the starters and dragons are gone" does not prove any of this B/
    Im essentially talking from my gut here, from how BW was set up and from thinking how gamefreak would approach this mess professionally.
    It was perfect up to the E4, but the rest is lacking while having lots of potential. Everything about it just comes perfectly together that way. Its not as easy to explain as I thought, but you'll see soon enough anyway.

    All the 2 means is, its more than just the average third version, until we get facts.

    Of course you can make a standalone unique game, but you wouldn't do that on a serious main game, which you plan ahead from the beginning of the generation.

    @hol123:
    If you're saying there will be opposite gender palyer rivals with changed looks,
    it sounds way more plausible than these being the new looks of the actual player, but unless there is some twist involving Bianca and Cheren, a starter issue arises.
    Last edited by Mitja; 11th April 2012 at 10:03 PM.

  17. #2817
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    That's what I thought, as well. Why stick them directly beside the two formes, under Meloetta, and up above the BW logos if they aren't characters relating to the games? The short one appears to be wearing pink, is short, and has a fuzzy hairdo yet looks male. The tall one looks female, is wearing blue, and has a hat on (what is this lol). I'm leaning towards these are either rival / companion type things, or they're the new protagonists.

    I'd pick the boy cause he's so short~

  18. #2818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    Its going to take place at the same time as BW (ala parallel universe as with all versions of the same plot), but go further and actually continue the story big time, instead of just changing the main part like third versions did.
    Common-sense doesn't work anymore with Pokemon games... You still don't know that.


    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    They didn't reprogram all the interactions in Platinum, because it was a rehash, not a sequel...so I don't know where you're going with this.
    Huh? You didn't understand. Read what I quoted back there and then read this:

    In Platinum almost everything was just like D/P and yet it was another selling success.
    Last edited by Royal_Qeca; 11th April 2012 at 10:06 PM.

  19. #2819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    @hol123:
    If you're saying there will be opposite gender palyer rivals with changed looks,
    it sounds way more plausible than these being the new looks of the actual player, but unless there is some twist involving Bianca and Cheren, a starter issue arises.
    Yeah, that's sort of what I mean. The female protagonist on the right and the companion male on the left is extremely plausible.

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  20. #2820
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    on a site i found some info but don t know if it is all mentioned someone claimed to have buyed the corocoro copy and revealed something of the game here it is http://translate.google.nl/translate...F1330372822%2F at 308 one named byaukran says I'm in japan and bought a copy of coro coro.
    So i spoil you.
    3 years have passed since BW.
    N is now missing, Team plasma reappears. A new leader rules over them and has N's dragon.
    BW's protagonist (depends of the gender) is the Striaton gym leader since Shadow triad is Cilan Pod & Cress.

  21. #2821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal_Qeca View Post
    Huh? You didn't understand. Read what I quoted back there and then read this:

    In Platinum almost everything was just like D/P and yet it was another selling success.
    Not nearly as much as it would be if it was an all new experience. Platinum sold waaaaay less than DP did. But Platinum was still a good investment because they hardly had to do anything to release it. But since BW2 will be recoding all the player interactions anyway, it would be a great business decision to make it a new experience instead of programming an adventure that is extremely similar to one we've already played, because it would hinder sales if people think this is a rehash of BW1.

  22. #2822
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    How would there be a "Starter" issue? Professors have more than one set, obviously. How else would they service new trainers?

  23. #2823
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    on a site i found some info but don t know if it is all mentioned someone claimed to have buyed the corocoro copy and revealed something of the game here it is http://translate.google.nl/translate...F1330372822%2F at 308 one named byaukran says I'm in japan and bought a copy of coro coro.
    So i spoil you.
    3 years have passed since BW.
    N is now missing, Team plasma reappears. A new leader rules over them and has N's dragon.
    BW's protagonist (depends of the gender) is the Striaton gym leader since Shadow triad is Cilan Pod & Cress.
    Why on Earth would the playable character who later becomes entitled Champion, be set as the first Gym Leader? This just sounds silly

  24. #2824
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    on a site i found some info but don t know if it is all mentioned someone claimed to have buyed the corocoro copy and revealed something of the game here it is http://translate.google.nl/translate...F1330372822%2F at 308 one named byaukran says I'm in japan and bought a copy of coro coro.
    So i spoil you.
    3 years have passed since BW.
    N is now missing, Team plasma reappears. A new leader rules over them and has N's dragon.
    BW's protagonist (depends of the gender) is the Striaton gym leader since Shadow triad is Cilan Pod & Cress.
    I'm going to say no, because the Shadow Triad being the brothers is dumb to begin with.

        Spoiler:- Alpha Sapphire Progress:

  25. #2825
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    on a site i found some info but don t know if it is all mentioned someone claimed to have buyed the corocoro copy and revealed something of the game here it is http://translate.google.nl/translate...F1330372822%2F at 308 one named byaukran says I'm in japan and bought a copy of coro coro.
    So i spoil you.
    3 years have passed since BW.
    N is now missing, Team plasma reappears. A new leader rules over them and has N's dragon.
    BW's protagonist (depends of the gender) is the Striaton gym leader since Shadow triad is Cilan Pod & Cress.
    Yeah sure... CoroCoro would never spoil information that way: "BW's protagonist (depends of the gender) is the Striaton gym leader since Shadow triad is Cilan Pod & Cress." They would never reveal something important about BW and even about animé (maybe) by saying that way so softly who Cilan Pod and Cress truly were. I'm sure if that was true it would be something huge to tell.

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