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Thread: Storyline and Characters Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #2051
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Why do gyms = Pokemon game? Maybe gyms = first storyline of a generation. Maybe gyms = Pokemon games up through Black and White.

    Oh, just because it's always been that way? Silly me, I figured Game Freak might like the idea of evolving their gameplay. After all, using evil bosses would help Game Freak to better embrace a storyline without deviating from the 8-boss format.

    Regardless, I'm not saying take away gyms. I'm saying put them into the post-game. Therefore, gyms are still present. Just not before the storyline because that would make BW2's storyline just like BW1's. It's a sequel.


    DPPt and RSE and GSC and RBY all introduced new gyms. HGSS and FRLG retreaded old gyms because they are remakes.

    My point is, every time they introduced a new storyline, there was a new set of bosses with it. You're suggesting that in BW2 (which is also a brand new storyline) that we should battle the same bosses we battled in its PREQUEL. I don't see that happening.

    All of the leaders? How would they justify that? I highly doubt all the gym leaders will suddenly be replaced...



    The remakes and special edition aren't even part of the formula I'm talking about. I'm talking about the consistency of two paired versions and a third version in each generation; I'm not talking about remakes at all. What point are you even trying to make?
    The remakes and Special Edition are considered main games too therefore should be on the list. Thus making the formula you mentioned broken since Gen 2 for not having a special edition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    The remakes and Special Edition are considered main games too therefore should be on the list. Thus making the formula you mentioned broken since Gen 2 for not having a special edition.
    Why do remakes have anything to do with the fact that each generation has two paired versions and a third version? Remakes and a Special Edition were never part of the formula because they were inconsistent. Your point is moot and irrelevent to anything. Don't be a troll.

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    Contests are horrible to the fan base why do you think they removed them from both the games and the anime. Plus BCVM is online maybe he can end this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Why do gyms = Pokemon game? Maybe gyms = first storyline of a generation. Maybe gyms = Pokemon games up through Black and White.

    Oh, just because it's always been that way? Silly me, I figured Game Freak might like the idea of evolving their gameplay. After all, using evil bosses would help Game Freak to better embrace a storyline without deviating from the 8-boss format.

    Regardless, I'm not saying take away gyms. I'm saying put them into the post-game. Therefore, gyms are still present. Just not before the storyline because that would make BW2's storyline just like BW1's. It's a sequel.
    Wow.

    That evil bosses idea would take away from the overall theme of pokemon (another part of the core formula). So again, not going to happen.

    It would only make it like BW1's story if we had the same characters. Since that is not the case, your point is moot. Not to mention that moving the gyms to post game changes the core formula, which they also won't do.


    DPPt and RSE and GSC and RBY all introduced new gyms. HGSS and FRLG retreaded old gyms because they are remakes.

    My point is, every time they introduced a new storyline, there was a new set of bosses with it. You're suggesting that in BW2 (which is also a brand new storyline) that we should battle the same bosses we battled in its PREQUEL. I don't see that happening.

    All of the leaders? How would they justify that? I highly doubt all the gym leaders will suddenly be replaced...
    Ugh...

    The gyms in the remakes were changed up, so they weren't they same as the originals (not entirely).

    Every time they introduce a new gen, not a new story line. Pt and E's story line were different (for the most part) form DP and RS, and the leaders were the same (for the most part). Hell they even changed the champion and a gym leader in E.

    And I never said all the leaders. Learn to read.




    And people, the release pattern is not part of the core formula of the game. We are talking about the core formula. Please stop associating one with the other. I'd hate to have to Gibb slap you.
    Last edited by DBK; 16th March 2012 at 8:33 AM.
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    I say DBK should be banned from this forum for his harassing comments and the fact that he can not accept other's ideas in a forum!

    P.S. I am an adult and there is nothing wrong with playing Pokemon as an adult, unless you begin to act like a 10 year old child going overboard because someone said something which you think is false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxate7 View Post
    I say DBK should be banned from this forum for his harassing comments and the fact that he can not accept other's ideas in a forum!

    P.S. I am an adult and there is nothing wrong with playing Pokemon as an adult, unless you begin to act like a 10 year old child going overboard because someone said something which you think is false.
    It's a speculation thread we can disagree on ideas as long as we have a reason why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Contests are horrible to the fan base why do you think they removed them from both the games and the anime. Plus BCVM is online maybe he can end this.
    it's not like musicals are any better...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1013 View Post
    it's not like musicals are any better...
    Exactly. The only contest i enjoyed were the RSE ones because they were what a contest is and were short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxate7 View Post
    I say DBK should be banned from this forum for his harassing comments and the fact that he can not accept other's ideas in a forum!

    P.S. I am an adult and there is nothing wrong with playing Pokemon as an adult, unless you begin to act like a 10 year old child going overboard because someone said something which you think is false.
    This coming from a girl who has to result to name calling to get her point across.

    I can accept ideas when they are logical and within reason.

    The funny thing is, most of the more respected members of this forum would side with me. Maybe you are the one who shouldn't be here if you can't debate and are incapable of taking criticism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason-Kun View Post
    That does not stop them from being valuable alternates to gyms. Granted GF will not likely ever allow alternate advancing methods but just because some fans do not like contest/musicals.the pokethalon does not make them/it bad.
    Yes it does. If GF replaced Gyms with contests after how horrible they were in DPPt and in the anime after Hoenn this series would hit the dirt fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason-Kun View Post
    That does not stop them from being valuable alternates to gyms. Granted GF will not likely ever allow alternate advancing methods but just because some fans do not like contest/musicals.the pokethalon does not make them/it bad.
    You haven't been playing pokemon for very long, have you? The gym system will not go away. That's all there is to it.

    FYI, I liked the original contests and the Pokethalon. They're still horrible alternatives to gyms. The point of pokemon is to get stronger through battling. Contests/Pokethalon do not reflect that in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Yes it does. If GF replaced Gyms with contests after how horrible they were in DPPt and in the anime after Hoenn this series would hit the dirt fast.
    That's a little extreme, but agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Exactly. The only contest i enjoyed were the RSE ones because they were what a contest is and were short.
    I saw contests in DPPt as an improvement. I actually liked them lol. I do prefer the different levels of contest being in different towns though, like they originally were in RS.

    Let's talk about characters though, since that's what this thread is for. Umm, I don't really have anything new food for thought right now though...

    OH! What if we got a pokemon as the villain for once? I mean, it's not being controlled by anyone or anything. Acting on its own motives, it wrecks havoc on the region and the player must oppose it and with N's help find out its reasoning and help calm the beast before it's too late? I think that'd be a nice change to things. Kyurem was mentioned to have eaten people, so I could see it being a misunderstood villain of sorts if they did the story the right way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    Wow.
    Rightbackatcha, formula man.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    That evil bosses idea would take away from the overall theme of pokemon (another part of the core formula). So again, not going to happen.
    The formula is not set in stone. Why don't you understand that? Pokemon can and will evolve whether you like it or not. And a sequel has never been established, so there is no formula established for how one would operate. HAving the player fight the same bosses in a sequel as he/she did in its prequel is a terrible design choice. Why would they want you retread your footsteps from BW1 when it would be equal the amount of work to establish new footsteps to offer the player a new experience?

    Business sense > formulas


    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    It would only make it like BW1's story if we had the same characters. Since that is not the case, your point is moot. Not to mention that moving the gyms to post game changes the core formula, which they also won't do.
    Not really. There would still be eight bosses. They just wouldn't all be in buildings labeled "GYM" and they'd actually contribute to a storyline.



    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    Ugh...

    The gyms in the remakes were changed up, so they weren't they same as the originals (not entirely).
    Still the same bosses; aesthetically the same to players.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    Every time they introduce a new gen, not a new story line. Pt and E's story line were different (for the most part) form DP and RS, and the leaders were the same (for the most part). Hell they even changed the champion and a gym leader in E.
    Again why does it make sense to employ the same bosses in a sequel as its prequel? It made sense in Platinum and Emerald because they were rehashes, which doens't call for a new set of bosses. BW2 is not a third game, the designers are free to make the experience different from BW1.


    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    And I never said all the leaders. Learn to read.
    If you didn't mean all the leaders then what point were you trying to make?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1013 View Post
    from what we've seen, there wouldn't be much to progress through in any of those categories. Maybe if contests were in separate towns again, but even then, there'd only be 4. 5 if they made a Grand Festival-style thing
    I quite like that idea as well as spontaneous battle tournaments against other trainers.

    Maybe there could be a pokemon olympics like tournament as in pokeathlon or just with battles.
    ORAS? I'm excited

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stymie View Post
    I quite like that idea as well as spontaneous battle tournaments against other trainers.

    Maybe there could be a pokemon olympics like tournament as in pokeathlon or just with battles.
    so, something like the battle dome basically?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWN View Post
    Rightbackatcha, formula man.

    The formula is not set in stone. Why don't you understand that? Pokemon can and will evolve whether you like it or not. And a sequel has never been established, so there is no formula established for how one would operate. HAving the player fight the same bosses in a sequel as he/she did in its prequel is a terrible design choice. Why would they want you retread your footsteps from BW1 when it would be equal the amount of work to establish new footsteps to offer the player a new experience?

    Business sense > formulas


    Not really. There would still be eight bosses. They just wouldn't all be in buildings labeled "GYM" and they'd actually contribute to a storyline.


    Still the same bosses; aesthetically the same to players.


    Again why does it make sense to employ the same bosses in a sequel as its prequel? It made sense in Platinum and Emerald because they were rehashes, which doens't call for a new set of bosses. BW2 is not a third game, the designers are free to make the experience different from BW1.


    If you didn't mean all the leaders then what point were you trying to make?
    *face desk*

    The core formula is set in stone. Why can't you understand that? They can change how it is presented, but they will never change the core formula. It's what's been making them money, so it would be good business sense not to change it, and they won't.

    The whole point of pokemon, and what the stories piggy back on, is to get stronger through participating in the league (another part of the core formula). The gyms aren't meant to contribute to the story line, but to the theme of the franchise. Thus they are staying were they are.

    It makes sense because you will be using different characters, the gyms will be revamped, and maybe there will be a new leader or two. It makes the experience fresh. Obviously not for you, but for the vast majority of players it does. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the majority don't like it.

    Like I said, some of the leaders could be changed. If you haven't (or wouldn't) gotten my point by now, then this conversation is pointless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBK View Post
    *face desk*

    The core formula is set in stone. Why can't you understand that? They can change how it is presented, but they will never change the core formula. It's what's been making them money, so it would be good business sense not to change it, and they won't.

    The whole point of pokemon, and what the stories piggy back on, is to get stronger through participating in the league (another part of the core formula). The gyms aren't meant to contribute to the story line, but to the theme of the franchise. Thus they are staying were they are.

    It makes sense because you will be using different characters, the gyms will be revamped, and maybe there will be a new leader or two. It makes the experience fresh. Obviously not for you, but for the vast majority of players it does. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the majority don't like it.

    Like I said, some of the leaders could be changed. If you haven't (or wouldn't) gotten my point by now, then this conversation is pointless.
    You say that the formula is set in stone because it works. Why does it work? Because it makes the series fun. GF won't change the battle mechanics because they make the series fun. They won't take out the explorable region aspect out of the series because it makes the series fun. They won't remove boss battles because they make the series fun. They won't remove a trophy system (such as badges) for winning those battles because it makes the series rewarding and fun. But how on Earth does the fact that all the bosses in every game are all inside buildings labeled "GYM" have any benefit to the series whatsoever? I don't care what Game Freak has always done; they've never made a sequel before. Gyms are an easily disposable part of the storyline, especially if they contain the same bosses as its prequel. Game Freak has never had a reason to dispose of gyms from the storyline before because each new storyline has taken place in a new generation, allowing for new gyms, and thus new bosses. But now that Game Freak is taking on a project involving a brand new story in a predefined region, they have a reason to deviate from the gyms (to create a new experience), so it's foolish to automatically assume that Game Freak would commit the gameplay to the same exact tasks as we underwent in the first games unless these games are a rehash, which they aren't.

    You also say they won't change the formula, just how it's presented...which is exactly what I'm suggesting. Still eight boss battles, just not presented as the gym system, which is merely an aesthetic.

    If Game Freak is going to code a whole new story into Unova, they're going to make the experience something new. Pursuing the Unova gyms is not something new--we did that a year ago. We need to have a new objective this time. Game Freak's designers and writers are way too creative to let this game become a rehash of last year's game.

    I'm thinking in regard to creativity, you're thinking in regard to mathematics. Mathematics doesn't design a video game.
    Last edited by TWN; 16th March 2012 at 10:16 AM.

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    actually maths do design a video game heck pokemon is made of maths. Heck pokemon game is made up of famuler for calculating thngs like EVs. Case in point http://http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EVs

    I'll say math and creativity are needed to make a video game.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Morty05 View Post
    actually maths do design a video game heck pokemon is made of maths. Heck pokemon game is made up of famuler for calculating thngs like EVs. Case in point http://http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EVs

    I'll say math and creativity are needed to make a video game.
    I said design, not make. There's a huge difference. Creativity is for designing, math is for programming. The programmers don't make decisions regarding the storyline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason-Kun View Post
    You know what be stubborn and not consider the idea. Meanwhile I am just going to wait and see.
    Now I know how Vegeta feels when dealing with Nappa.....


    Anyway I hope they give a more alive feel to Unova. Wouldn't it be possible to have people driving cars around? not like in GTA 4 but just random cars nothing fancy. You see a truck under Skyarrow bridge but only when your on the bridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraMaster View Post
    Now I know how Vegeta feels when dealing with Nappa.....


    Anyway I hope they give a more alive feel to Unova. Wouldn't it be possible to have people driving cars around? not like in GTA 4 but just random cars nothing fancy. You see a truck under Skyarrow bridge but only when your on the bridge.
    It is funny because you have no idea from where the cars come or to where they go and people just brought cars to cross the skyarrow bridge.

    I hope they give the villain team (plasma?) better pokemons than patrats... and that the gym leaders and in general everybody will use 5-6 pokemons... because everybody uses 3 pokemons on average... if they put 2 6x6 battles they can put less trainers and where is the useless pokemon trainer with 6 magikarps?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    It is funny because you have no idea from where the cars come or to where they go and people just brought cars to cross the skyarrow bridge.

    I hope they give the villain team (plasma?) better pokemons than patrats... and that the gym leaders and in general everybody will use 5-6 pokemons... because everybody uses 3 pokemons on average... if they put 2 6x6 battles they can put less trainers and where is the useless pokemon trainer with 6 magikarps?
    Same maybe even gym rules like the anime like 2 out of 3 or 3 on 3 instead of you using all your pokemon if they have only 3

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    What I hope is that they spread stuff better. Right now, almost everything worthwhile is in Nimbasa City. Do you know what's in Lacunosa Town and Accumula Town. NOTHING.
    I don't use "uber" Pokemon (because they're banned), I don't calculate stat values (the simulator does it for me), I don't use cheating devices (because I hardly ever play the actual game), I don't breed my way to perfection (because I use a simulator), and I do care about natures. I battle the most efficient way, so I can use my strategic skills to the fullest. I don't look down on others because of the way they play Pokemon, which non-competitive people seem to actually do more often. If you use this philosophy, copy & paste this into your signature. (Started by DittoDude.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by irlp View Post
    i have a solution to the airport problem but its preety stupid. you sneak into a box, hide there until the plane is like 3000 feet in the air and then u battle through a bunch of flight attendants and pilots and battle skyla to convice her to let you ride in here plain although she might just call the authorities on you hmmmm
    This scenario reminded me of how the opening of RSE went, with the player arriving in the back of a truck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    It is funny because you have no idea from where the cars come or to where they go and people just brought cars to cross the skyarrow bridge.

    I hope they give the villain team (plasma?) better pokemons than patrats... and that the gym leaders and in general everybody will use 5-6 pokemons... because everybody uses 3 pokemons on average... if they put 2 6x6 battles they can put less trainers and where is the useless pokemon trainer with 6 magikarps?
    It would be nice to see more cars around the rest of the region, instead of simply in a single city and route.

    An upgrade to 4 pokemon being average would be nice. Doubt they would go up to five pokemon before you get near the final gym and league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    This scenario reminded me of how the opening of RSE went, with the player arriving in the back of a truck.

    It would be nice to see more cars around the rest of the region, instead of simply in a single city and route.

    An upgrade to 4 pokemon being average would be nice. Doubt they would go up to five pokemon before you get near the final gym and league.
    The cars would be nice, but I think them moving would just take up space they do not want to waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by DittoDude63 View Post
    What I hope is that they spread stuff better. Right now, almost everything worthwhile is in Nimbasa City. Do you know what's in Lacunosa Town and Accumula Town. NOTHING.
    I agree. The routes and towns are nowhere as big as Sinnoh. I was thinking about it the other day, there is so much more to do there. I hope they spread things out more and add a little bit of events.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuraMaster View Post
    Same maybe even gym rules like the anime like 2 out of 3 or 3 on 3 instead of you using all your pokemon if they have only 3
    I've wanted this for a long time but I don't see it ever happening. A simple solution would be to install a hard and easy mode which would allow more experienced players to actually have a challenge, but I don't ever see this happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    It is funny because you have no idea from where the cars come or to where they go and people just brought cars to cross the skyarrow bridge.

    I hope they give the villain team (plasma?) better pokemons than patrats... and that the gym leaders and in general everybody will use 5-6 pokemons... because everybody uses 3 pokemons on average... if they put 2 6x6 battles they can put less trainers and where is the useless pokemon trainer with 6 magikarps?
    They missed a lot of opportunities in BW for double battles. There should have been a lot more. I would like to see some more triple battles too. Increasing the number of Pokemon trainers carry would be great. Hopefully they do and the levels go up.
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