This should've never happened in the first place. The police told Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon. He shouldn't have followed Trayvon.
Now if or not Zimmermen was legally required to follow the order might be another discussion. But to act as if any random person on the street could be a 911 operator is pretty demeaning to the profession.
A 911 Operator has to have...
No formal training and just 3-6 months on the job training (or Apprenticing if you will) some states require certification. I went through a more intense training program to make camshafts than a 911 operator has to have to take emergency calls. The job they do is in fact very important but terribly under trained, so I am not demeaning the operators, but I am questioning their training requirements. By comparison to the requirements to do my job, a 911 operator is in fact a random idiot, I'm sorry to say.
Last edited by Malanu; 11th April 2012 at 2:28 PM.
The amount of training required is frankly irrelevant. If their protocol is based on working with other public safety departments, then they know more than the person on the other end and instructions should be followed.
Now if this is the case or not in Sanford, or if Zimmermen is legally required to follow their advice, is a different conversation.
I agree with that somewhat. Though they work with the emergency responders (Police & Paramedics) They are laymen at best. They are not able to do more than "recommend" a course of action or recite instructions from a 3x5 card. I will disagree with you about how important good instruction is to the job though. as important as the 911 operators job is, there needs to be a way to verify that a standard of professionalism is reached and maintained across the board.
I am a little worried about zimmerman. Even though he hasn't contacted them, if the lawyer truly knew where he was, they could always send someone to him. I blame the police department for not launching a through investigation. Now, because of their incompetence, an innocent man (I may believe he is guilty, but it has not been proven) has had his life tarnished. This is just saddening.
I'm worried that someone may have got to him and carried out summary judgment/execution, Judge Dredd style. One of the worst things is, it may be due to incomplete and faulty prejudicial evidence. If someone is charged with such a serious crime, then why weren't they taken into custody on remand? Not only would that stop them from committing any crimes, but it would also protect them from such summary judgments.
And so is Martin's death, more so. My cousin and I go down to the store on the corner to get Arizona tea all the time. The details of the story make me imagine what it would be like if it was someone close to me.
It seems like people stopped caring about the 'turn the other cheek' principle. Instead of remembering that someone is innocent until guilty, people decide the risk is too great that he is guilty, so they end up going after someone mob-style. I think it's highly possible that he's taking on a new identity from now on, or worse.
Last edited by CSolarstorm; 11th April 2012 at 5:32 PM.
Originally Posted by Albus Dumbledore
Looks like Zimmerman will be charged in the shooting,
I pretty much figured this would happen after she declined to go to the Grand Jury ( If you wanted a easy escape it is better for the Grand Jury to take the fall ). So now it should be interesting to how the facts are presented, and how much we do and do not know. Maybe this will give time to defuse the situation, and prevent rioting if Zimmerman is found innocent.
Just heard on the radio that murder 2 charge will be filed and a warrant for Zimmerman's arrest will be issued.
EDIT: Florida law requires murder 1 charges to go through a grand jury. Prosecutor probably figured there wasn't enough evidence to get a conviction on murder 1. I was expecting a manslaughter charge, but then again, the prosecutor may very well be working with evidence that hasn't been dragged through the media.
EDIT II: Someone on another forum asked, from here on out, what is going to happen as far as trials and stuff go. Here was a response from someone. I don't know his qualifications, but it seems reasonably...well, reasonable.
He will be booked and processed at the jail, then have to go before a judge for his first appearance where he can be granted a pre-trial bond.
Since Second Degree Murder with a Firearm is punishable by life, he is not entitled to bond as a matter of right, however, a judge has the discretion to grant him bond. If the initial appearance judge decides to hold him without bond, and the State seeks to continue to hold him without bond pending trial, the State will have to put forward evidence at a pretrial hearing that the proof of his guilt is evident, and the presumption of guilt (based upon the evidence) is great. Even if the State does this, the judge still has the discretion to grant him bond before the trial. He will also have to retain a lawyer, or have one appointed for him if he is indigent.
He has a right to a speedy trial within 175 days. This right can be waived by his lawyer if the case needs additional time to be prepared. Prior to the trial, his lawyers will conduct discovery, including deposing the State's witnesses.
The defendant will probably file a Motion to Dismiss the charge pursuant to Stand Your Ground. At the hearing at the Motion to Dismiss, the defendant will have to establish, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he is immune from prosecution because he was acting under Stand Your Ground. This hearing is done with a judge, not a jury. If the State carries the burden, although the charges against the defendant are not dismissed, the Defendant can still raise the defense at his jury trial and the State has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that, first, he committed Second Degree Murder and second, that he was not acting in self defense.
Manslaughter is a lesser included offense to Second Degree Murder, so, even if the State fails to prove that he committed Second Degree Murder, he can be convicted of any of the lesser included offenses.
It is important to note that Second Degree Murder with a Firearm falls under Florida's 10/20/Life law - meaning that if he is convicted under 10/20/Life, he must be sentenced to at least 25 years in prison, with a maximum of Life. Florida does not have a parole system. That sentence would be a minimum mandatory sentence, meaning that he would have to serve 100% of his sentence. Manslaughter with a Firearm does NOT fall under 10/20/Life.
Last edited by randomspot555; 12th April 2012 at 12:00 AM.
Based on the description of the charge, do you guys believe it is reasonable? I was surprised it was 2nd degree charge rather than manslaughter imo.
The general speculation is that the special prosecutor is working with evidence that hasn't been dragged into the media. They didn't give many details at the press conference about what evidence they do have. But one of the things missing so far is the autopsy report. There could be any number of things they also have such as witnesses, forensics, expert analyses, and so on.
As the legal process unfolds, the defense is going to file motions and get all the evidence the prosecution has.
The charge is certainly reasonable because prosecutors don't like filing charges they don't think they can win. If I had to take a guess, I'd bet the special prosecutor is looking at a run for higher office and is looking to enforce her "tough on crime" image.
However, Zimmerman also is someone who has no criminal record (EDIT: Okay, he had charges in two separate cases before if I remember correctly, but they were dismissed). If this special prosecutor turned up what she turned up at the beginning of this, Zimmerman could've gotten out with a plea deal. Now that the case has blown up, I don't see how this doesn't go to trial.
But before it goes to trial, the defense will file all types of motions to delay (which is fine and their right) to properly prepare their case. They'll likely file a charge to dismiss the charges, file a change of venue, and so on.
Last edited by randomspot555; 12th April 2012 at 3:53 AM.
Also, I didn't assume Martin ran away, he did ran away because Zimmer said that in the phone of the audio log.
Try looking, and listening at the evidence. Maybe you can find more of the truth while listening to the audio log.
Last edited by Diz~; 12th April 2012 at 7:16 AM.
I haven't been commenting much in this thread but Id be pretty happy with life for Zimmerman.
@ Raymond. You didn't know George Zimmerman. He has been charged with domestic violence. The pictures you saw of Trayvons account were fakes. Seriously, you didn't know Trayvon or Zimmerman and who cares if Trayvon smoked weed? My mom smokes weed. Ive smoked weed. My dads smoked weed. All my friends smoke weed. It doesn't make them criminals that deserve to die.
3DS Friend Code: 3780-9421-5420
Well, at least he is in jail. He currently is safer there than actually being outside.
7, I'm pretty sure life is pretty hard to get when 2nd degree is the charge. 2nd degree murder is intent to do harm without intent to commit murder. Facts that will work in Zimm's favor is he relinquished his weapon and cooperated with the police. after the shooting, he also willingly turned himself in.
Now I realize he IS a very notorious individual presently and a lynching is not fun for one in his situation. But he is not ACTING like someone who committed murder. Going incommunicado is not an admission of guilt on his part either, the less you say to the media per trial the better. This way there is no chance of saying something that could be used against you.
He is playing this pretty close to textbook. I'll wager he gets a minimum sentence IF his defense doesn't make a major blunder.
Spoiler:- My latest challenge:
Loosely, based on Florida law:
Murder 1: unlawful homicide. Requires intent and premeditation (means the person, if convicted, planned the homicide and intended to cause harm to the person). In Florida, you must use a grand jury to get a Murder 1 charge
Murder 2: Requires intent to cause harm resulting in a death.
Manslaughter, voluntary: Committing an act that results in a death, but you didn't intend to harm or kill. (this is a very poorly worded explanation. someone else feel free to correct me)
Manslaughter, involuntary: Unintentionally committing an act that caused harm and results in death (this is pretty common in cases such as an accidental death if a driver hits someone with a car)
Well, Zimmerman did pull out his weapon and shot Martin in the chest at the last second while getting a beat down in the middle of a neighborhood. Zimmerman probably felt that his life was truly in danger during that time. It could have been easily avoided if he didn't chase Martin down if he just listen to the damn operator. No one would have been in jail or 6 foot under.
Also, there seem to be more truth in this video with Martin's girlfriend testifying. Although I don't like that Al Sharpton guy for some reason with racial profiling since it doesn't seem to be racist profiling to me with this entire case.
Also, what the hell is wrong with this video? A black version of the KKK?
It seem there even more truth in here, where his parent claim Martin is just going to the store. Guess that where he got his skittle.
Last edited by Diz~; 12th April 2012 at 11:38 PM.