Community POTW #65

[365pokemon]

EXPLOSIVE COMBUSITION!
Fire blast
Sludge bomb
Hidden power Ice
Thunder/bolt

You need a description. And Nidoking/queen can do this much better.

[Kraleck]

Weez's offensive stats are pretty good, but it lacks Move-Type diversity. That isn't necessarily bad, though. Your main role is to annoy, cripple, and then overwhelm. Straight up, Poison Types love to spread Status Ailments, and Weez' is no exception.

Looking at similar Poison Types, I couldn't look at pure Poison Types to compare. Drapion has similar durability and Amoongus has similar offense with Weez's Speed roughly halfway between the two. That said, the three of them could work well on a Type-themed team. Since Weez' is mostly-immune to Earthquake (mostly it's Mold Breaker that'll mess with you), it allies itself pretty well with Drapion or Skuntank, which are only weak to Ground, and really well with most Dark Types, since Weez' resists their weaknesses and they are immune to Psychic.

The main thing Weez' has going for it is that it is annoying to merely see. I say that because you'll expect to see the three S's when your opponent uses one: Switches, Statuses, and Suicide. Professional Weez' users will annoy opponents with Status Ailments and switching to Move-Type-Immune Pokemon before going down in flame and glory with it. When you see Weezing, your life will soon become Hell if you don't know how to handle it...

[Rayofquazar]

Looks like you were all waiting for weezing to come ever since it was skipped for shandelure that week!
Anyways, Weezing is a very decent pokemon being one of the best pure poison types of the game having only competition from garbodor (kidding)!
It has a very good defense but sadly low special defense and HP makes it's walling job limited. Offensively it is not bad at all too... But being forced to rely on it's slightly lower special attack is not what this pokemon hoped for. But it's special movepool is so good that everyone around are more than glad to make that 5 points difference sacrifice. Speed is what hinders the pokemon the most! with a base stat of 60 it cannot be effective in supporting the team or use it's gimmick options such as memento or destiny bond wich require good prediction on weezing or they would fail.
Levitate is the best thing this pokemon have. Being weak to ground type moves, a poison's type dream is levitate and that pokemon wished on the right star!

My gases makes opponents wheeze:
Weezing@black sludge
Ability: levitate
Nature: +DEF, -ATT
EVs: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SPD
Moveset:
-Clear smog
-Will-O-wisp
-Flamethrower
-Destiny bond/ memento/ Taunt/ Shadow ball/ Explosion.

Pretty standard for a physical wall! Invest heavily in speed so it can surprise an opponent that expects a slow weezing. Will-O-wisp is for softening physical blows and burning the opponent. Clear smog provide some hazing and plays the role of a STAB damaging move too. Flamethrower hits steels harder than thunderbolt that would otherwise wall you to extinction. On the last slot you can be either disruptive or suicidal. Destiny bond takes the opponent down with you wich is very helpfull taking out the opponent's powerhouse. Memento forces switching while giving you a free turn to set up or just destroy the opponent if he decides not to switch. Taunt cripples some support pokemon but most of them will taunt you before you taunt them. shadow ball is good since weezing is a psychic type punching bag, hitting them super effectively, sadly most of them are either faster than you or bulky in the special side, and will eventually KO you directly or on the second turn (Weezing should also wish to get Shadow sneak). Explosion is a suicidal move for a desperate KO but do not use a -ATT nature since this generation explosion is much weaker than it was before so it needs much more power to successfully KO something especially if it has good defenses.

Finally... Weezing can also be used as a mixed defender with stockpile enabling it to survive a special attack but I think that this would lower the effectiveness of weezing primarly job of a physical wall. Pain split can be used for recovery but I'd rather use weezing as a burn spreader with a last move to cripple the opponent. You can use pain split instead of clear smog but the latter will protect you from baton passers as well as fast swords dance sweepers.

[Zodiac Meteor]

The best partner for Weezing would have to be Bronzong, quad-resist psychic moves and more importantly Trick Room support to help with Weezings bad speed. An evolite Bronzor can also do a bang up job with Toxic stall and Trick Room if you're going NU.

Poor Weezing, NU is filled with powerful and/or bulky psychic types that can not only out speed Weezing but OHKO thanks to his smaller special defense stat, removing weakness to ground type attacks doesn't help this smoke cloud enough. When you have almost the exact same number of defensive points as Marowak, it's extremely hard to recommend this poison Pokemon to any NU team considering other poison types. Garbodor has spikes, Muk had good special defense, physical attack and Gunk Shot, Skuntank offers better offense and Amoonguss can offer better defensive checks.

Weezing best used to check, wall and burn dangerous physical Pokemon like Swak but compared to Amoonguss, (who also gets regenerator) it's a bit outclassed when it comes to checks and counters. Still, it's walling might not be top class but it sure can annoy with its moves.

In Triple Battles Weezing sadly has no place, even with Trick Room teams it's average offensive and defensive stats make him outclassed by slower Pokemon that use utilize Trick Room much better. To top that off, stalling is nearly impossible to do in Triple Battles and checks are not as useful, which are two saving graces of Weezing in Singles.

Weezing has a lot of counters, even Pokemon you wouldn't think to counter it, like eviolite Dragonair can wall it. Not only has big bulk but can laugh at Will-O-Wisp, can safely setup can rest any damage away unless Weezing carries Taunt or Clear Smog which still won't stop Dragonair from dealing damage. A maxed Special Attack, Modest Nature Weezing, Life Orb boosted Hidden Power (Ice) would still take 3-4 hits to KO an Eviolite Dragonair.

[Kraleck]

The best partner for Weezing would have to be Bronzong, quad-resist psychic moves and more importantly Trick Room support to help with Weezings bad speed. An evolite Bronzor can also do a bang up job with Toxic stall and Trick Room if you're going NU.

Emphasis, mine. Any time a Pokemon has Base Speed between 55 and 85, it's bad. Weez' barely falls within the realm of "Bad Speed" with Base 60 ("Bad Speed" is a region where many Pokemon outclass you with Trick Room active and many outclass you with Trick Room inactive; basically medium-low Speed to above-average Speed is "Bad Speed"). However, Curse can help non-Ghost Types within this region, and Weezing has that option.

Secondly, I completely forgot how amazing a partner Levitate 'zong could be to Weez' in Singles. Doubles/Triples, however, makes them both vulnerable to Mold Breaker EQ.

[Zachmac]

I do not support trick room support for Weezing. Yes, it makes up for it's poor speed, but it doesn't last very long. Trick Room is a more offensive natured, allowing powerful sweeps from pokemon like Machamp or Conkeldur who would usually be held back by low speed, but defensive pokemon like Weezing will just stall trick room out themselves.

[Melonhead215]

Nope. We already did Hitmonlee back when Reno ran things.

Thank me for Weezing. Serebii wanted to do it several months from now lol.

...
Prediction for next week *REVISED*: Hitmonchan

[Blue Harvest]

...
Prediction for next week *REVISED*: Hitmonchan

NOPE

10char

[sbktdreed]

Personal Settings
Item: Black Sludge/Wise Glasses/Payapa Berry
Sludge Bomb
Flamethrower
Payback
Thunderbolt/Gyro Ball

Partners:
Trick Room users
Light Screen users
A Dark or Steel-Type like Bisharp or Zoroark

Countering:
Smack Down/Gravity to Ground-Type attacks (Nidoking/Nidoqueen)
Iron Ball-holder with an Item Switch move
A fast pokemon with high Sp Attack and Psychic-type special attacks like Extrasensory, Psybeam, and Psychic. (Alakazam)

[Zodiac Meteor]

Personal Settings
Item: Black Sludge/Wise Glasses/Payapa Berry
Sludge Bomb
Flamethrower
Payback
Thunderbolt/Gyro Ball

Partners:
Trick Room users
Light Screen users
A Dark or Steel-Type like Bisharp or Zoroark

Countering:
Smack Down/Gravity to Ground-Type attacks (Nidoking/Nidoqueen)
Iron Ball-holder with an Item Switch move
A fast pokemon with high Sp Attack and Psychic-type special attacks like Extrasensory, Psybeam, and Psychic. (Alakazam)

Pokemon with max special attack vs. max special defense Weezing

Duosion psychic OHKO
Abra psychic is a OHKO
Beeheeyum psychic is a OHKO
Hypno psychic is a 2 Hit KO
Typhlosion Extrasensory/Flamethrower is a 2 hit KO
Milotic Hydro Pump is a 2 Hit KO
Pelipper Hurricane 2 hit KO

Anything that touches that special defense destroys poor Weezing, not to mention most of these will be a OHKO if Weezing doesn't max his special defense. Even Abra is a threat to the poison cloud.

[Zachmac]

Koffing's got base 95 defense. That's pretty good for little cup, at least from my knowledge. Maybe you should include pre-evolution corner. Smogon suggest that it's best running Resttalk/Will-o-Wisp/Clear Smog, but hey, what do I know about LC? Physically defensive with eviolite, obviously. Could probably work in NU as well, but that's Weezing's job.

Weezig, the Icon pokemon of Smogon,

That's Koffing. Just saying.

Even Abra is a threat to the poison cloud.

You still have to admit that Abra has 100+ special attack and psychic STAB.

I still do agree with you though. If you use Weezing, use it for it's defense stat.

[Zodiac Meteor]

Koffing's got base 95 defense. That's pretty good for little cup, at least from my knowledge. Maybe you should include pre-evolution corner. Smogon suggest that it's best running Resttalk/Will-o-Wisp/Clear Smog, but hey, what do I know about LC? Physically defensive with eviolite, obviously. Could probably work in NU as well, but that's Weezing's job.That's Koffing. Just saying.You still have to admit that Abra has 100+ special attack and psychic STAB.

I still do agree with you though. If you use Weezing, use it for it's defense stat.

Actually, just ran some tests involving Eviolite Koffing vs. Weezing when it comes to defense. Koffing can actually take more hits than Weezing, making it a slightly better physical wall, however, Koffing won't be able to use items.
On the flip side, Koffing has less HP thus making Pain Split more effective.

Evioite Koffing is viable.

Edit: Wow, in a way, Koffing is better at walling than Weezing. Max special attack Abra vs. Max special defense Koffing is a 2 hit KO, surviving barely in red.

[grantholomew]

Actually, just ran some tests involving Eviolite Koffing vs. Weezing when it comes to defense. Koffing can actually take more hits than Weezing, making it a slightly better physical wall, however, Koffing won't be able to use items.
On the flip side, Koffing has less HP thus making Pain Split more effective.

Evioite Koffing is viable.

Yeah Koffing can be pretty bulky but unless you're in the Little Cup it's best to stick with Weezing for its Leftovers/Black Sludge. Here's a good Little Cup Koffing set.

Smogon
Koffing @ Eviolite
Trait: Ability
EVs: 196 HP/76 Def/236 SDef
Careful (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic/Will O’ Wisp
- Clear Smog
- Rest/Pain Split

[Zachmac]

Though unlike Koffing, Weezing can actually do damage outside of status.

I guess Koffing is better if you want a more defensive approach, though.

[Blue Harvest]

Koffing doesn't really take hits better. Its defenses with Eviolite end at 40/167/76 which is ok, except it lacks Leftovers and its HP sucks. It takes Special hits worse and Physical hits only a little better which again isn't that great due to lack of Leftovers.

Oh, and its offenses are dwarfed by Blissey. You don't ever want to envy Blissey's offenses.

[Zodiac Meteor]

Koffing doesn't really take hits better. Its defenses with Eviolite end at 40/167/76 which is ok, except it lacks Leftovers and its HP sucks. It takes Special hits worse and Physical hits only a little better which again isn't that great due to lack of Leftovers.

Actually it can take both physical and special attacks better. Lower HP isn't a bad thing because of Pain Split, but isn't a good thing either. Trading one for another.

Oh, and its offenses are dwarfed by Blissey. You don't ever want to envy Blissey's offenses.

Offenses as in Seismic Toss spam? Hell, Blissey has around the same special attack as Weezing.

Using Weezing as offense is a terrible idea, being a physical wall with burn AND removes stats boost with moves like Clear Smog and Haze? It stops setups in their place. Not to mention it's a wall that can stop walls with Torment and Taunt. Kills any sleep talker. It stops teams from rolling your Pokemon through spikes.

I'm not saying it can't go offensive but it's uses is better off doing what it does best, a wall.

lol, envy Blissey's offenses, do you even know how walling works? You know, if a Pokemon has a massively huge special attack of 85 with NO boosting moves, it's best used as an attacker!
Offensive Blissey, because when I think Blissey, I give it moves like Earthquake, Rock Slide, Wild Charge and Present. Why not? Did ya see dat that 10 physical attack? With STAB present I have a 10% chance to bust out 120 base damage! Oh and 20% chance to heal my opponent 50% health.
I did some calcs and it takes 10 hits to kill Sunkern with Rock Slide, yay! Get this, only 2 hits to kill Pichu with Earthquake! Poor Pichu's 20/15/30 defenses it never stood a chance.
With that 75 special attack, it's obviously a special attacker, silly me, give it specs and teach it Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Shadowball and Hyper Beam.

[Montresor]

I do not suck dick!

well since you are making a point to say it, you obviously do, but that's ok i won't judge.

[Blue Harvest]

Actually it can take both physical and special attacks better. Lower HP isn't a bad thing because of Pain Split, but isn't a good thing either. Trading one for another.

No, sorry.. you're wrong. It takes Special Hits worse and Physical hits about as well (taking into account Leftovers). As for the rest of your post.. I'm pretty sure you either misread or otherwise ignored mine. I literally said nothing about offensive Weezing. In fact I never even mentioned Weezing. I was talking about how bad Koffing is. Koffing has pathetic Special Attack, meaning the only way it can do damage is Will-O-Wisp and.. Toxic. Koffing's durability isn't even THAT great due to terrible HP and no healing (Pain Split sucks and is easy to work around)

Koffing is bad not because it can't take hits (well.. it can't) but because it has zero offensive presence. And don't you dare try to say "do you even know how walling works?". All walls need to in some way threaten their counters. Skarmory Spikes + Whirlwinds (and STAB Brave Bird). Ferrothorn Power Whip + Gyro Balls, even Twave + Leech Seed. Blissey Seismic Tosses, which generally 3HKOs most switch ins with Stealth Rocks. Rotom has Hydro Pump + Volt Switch. Gliscor gets STAB Earthquake + Toxic or Taunt. Tentacruel gets STAB Scald + Toxic Spikes. All walls need to be useful in the turns they spend being countered (aka the turn the opponent switches out). They must set up hazards, or in some way do damage to what counters them or else they are useless.

Koffing is crap because all it does is Will-O-Wisp and die. Its defenses aren't even that good. Don't even use Koffing outside of Little Cup.

[Zodiac Meteor]

well since you are making a point to say it, you obviously do, but that's ok i won't judge.

Location: Emo Cave
Looking for report button but found that instead. Interesting.

No, sorry.. you're wrong. It takes Special Hits worse and Physical hits about as well (taking into account Leftovers).

I double checked calcs and you're right, Koffing takes 2% more damage against special attacks. I don't know how I missed that.

Pain Split by far isn't the best recovery move, but easy to work around? Switch in a Pokemon with low HP to take Pain Split, while spikes are up... Pain Split is a great move for Weezing.

Lastly, Zero offensive presence? *Looks at Skarmory and Deoyxs-D* Meh, I disagree on that. I prefer Taunt over Brave Bird to stop the ever so popular Ferrothorn.

[Ilan]

Location: Emo Cave
Looking for report button but found that instead. Interesting.

I double checked calcs and you're right, Koffing takes 2% more damage against special attacks. I don't know how I missed that.

Pain Split by far isn't the best recovery move, but easy to work around? Switch in a Pokemon with low HP to take Pain Split, while spikes are up... Pain Split is a great move for Weezing.

Lastly, Zero offensive presence? *Looks at Skarmory and Deoyxs-D* Meh, I disagree on that. I prefer Taunt over Brave Bird to stop the ever so popular Ferrothorn.

YOU use taunt... btw ferrothorn can be whirlwinded or spiked...

deoxys-D can always use calm mind or night shade (like chansey and dusclops who are both really good)