Atheist & Agnostic Family

[RainaXainne]

I've just been trying to make enough money for my rent. Nothing left over for anything fun or any of my passions. Really wish I could go back to school but I have too much out on loans. Can't ever afford to pay my monthly payments

[Ilane]

Is there an application to join this club?

If not, then I'd like to join please.

[Poggle]

This is my first post. Yay.

I would also like to join.

I think the rule about not being able to bash religion is kind of silly though...

[Pokemon Geek]

There has never been any application form for this club as far as i know, so welcome!

[Ilane]

I think the rule about not being able to bash religion is kind of silly though...

I don't think it's silly at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If it happens to be different from yours, then agree to disagree. I think people should respect each other and try to understand other people's opinions. It's an open mind that is really important when trying to debate and discuss with people.

[Poggle]

I don't think it's silly at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If it happens to be different from yours, then agree to disagree. I think people should respect each other and try to understand other people's opinions. It's an open mind that is really important when trying to debate and discuss with people.

Well, from what I gather this is a club for like minded people to talk. Obviously, if you're an atheist you clearly find religion and all of its nuances to be completely ridiculous. Is the clubs purpose to convert people over to the side of atheism? Is it to win the hearts and minds of the public? I shouldn't...think so. If not, why should we have to tip toe around other peoples feelings? If someone thinks Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and so on down the line is giant load of steaming crap, I think they should be allowed to express those feelings. So long as they have decent reasoning and it's not bordering on mindless "UGH RELIGION SUCKS" chanting. Especially when it comes down to it, atheism is a lack of belief. I can't imagine there's much to talk about, it's like people getting together and talking about how much they like "not skiing" So, criticism of religion or religious practices I pretty much assumed would come with the territory. I was pretty surprised to see that in a atheist/agnostic club that one of the rules is that they can't be touched. That's nonsense, and it stifles debate and discussion.

Then again I am new, so I should probably wait a little before firing my pistol off here. I'm sure someone will post something enlightening and I'll look stupid.

[Moonlight Amaryllis]

Hello everyone, I've returned from the dead. Did anyone miss me, or did no one care? Please don't let this be spam

[Pokemon Geek]

Welcome back Moonlight Absol. long time no see!

About the bashing of religion thing. Its ok to critisise religion as much as you want, but try to keep it somewhat civil and constructive. Mindless bashing with no reasoning behind it should not be supported regardless of subject at hand.

[Moonlight Amaryllis]

Bashing religon in front of a religous person is wrong. However, bashing religon with people who also bash religon/don't care for it I suppose is acceptable. But I have to agree, keep it civil and constructive, because rants basically saying, "Religon is stupid, hurr-hurr" get nothing done.

Glad I was missed, Pokemon Geek

[Darato]

MA you are like the niece here and will always be missed.

As for bashing religion it all really depends. In April and October the LDS church as their priesthood and conference, and every time you'll fond people outside calling them out for what they believe in. Sometimes it can get out of hand, I think it was last year when one of the LDS members attacked a protester for doing something to The Book Of Mormon; but at the same time some of the LDS members here aren't as nice when it comes to members of other religions.

L.F.D.

[Pokemon Geek]

Good to see you still got some time to spare on the club Darato. You have been missed.

[Moonlight Amaryllis]

Aww, thanks Darato!

As for the LDS incidents, I think that discussing religon is public isn't very bright, because there's a ridiculously good chance you'll find a handful or so of people who don't agree with your beliefs, or someone who hates the religon you follow. So in sense, it is best to stick with people who share the same religon (or non-religon) to talk badly of another. That is, unless everyone gets along whether religons are hated or not.

[Profesco]

Darato, glad you're okay.

So, criticism of religion or religious practices I pretty much assumed would come with the territory. I was pretty surprised to see that in a atheist/agnostic club that one of the rules is that they can't be touched. That's nonsense, and it stifles debate and discussion.

I'm sure someone will post something enlightening and I'll look stupid.

We try not to bash religion here. That doesn't mean it can't be touched. The conflation of "no bashing" with "no criticizing" you've made is your only rash mistake.

But you'll have to practice being less rash, of course. A shared label, like "atheists" or "agnostics," is not all (or even largely) what binds us here. We're bound by an appreciation and advocacy of such things as secular humanism, scientific literacy, critical thinking skills, widespread and fact-based education, and an end to religious privilege in public policy, among many others. To that end we welcome any topic you may want to debate. We certainly criticize the arguments of various religious points of view here, but we also keep one another in check, since we're all human and occasionally err. At the end of the day, if we've learned anything, it's a plus.


Interestingly enough, the criticism of atheism as a group association like not-skiing or not-collecting stamps could be argued as invalid. On one level, of course, it's true: not-theists should be just as useless a term as not-skiiers, since there are other, more substantial, ways we are associated. But then again, the new atheist movement has become a source of identity anyway. Think about what an identity is - it is the separation, the distinction, of the individual from the group. Say you had a room with 100 people in it, 99 of whom wore red t-shirts in some fashion (orange-red, bright pink, red-and-white striped, whatever), and only one who was not wearing the color red at all. It would be inevitable that that lone person be, at least in some circumstances, identified by his or her lack of red garment. In the same way, the theistic worldview is so aged and so prominent that it has become the societal standard, and therefore a measure by which the relative minority - the not-theists - are imbued with an identity.

[Roaring Apathy]

Hey guys hows it hanging?

Been awhile since i came around here. Probably like 4 months now. Life is a pain.

Anyways I actually came for some sort of advice. Im currently debating with another member about the existence of god, and then he brings up the clock work universe theory. Ive seen it multiple times and have had a similar number of rebuttals,but I sometimes feel like my rebuttals dont always sound convincing or game changing.

Do you guys ever feel like...you know an argument is wrong but either forgot or dont know whats wrong with it or cant make a poignant criticism? What do you do in those cases? Also, does referring to some one else ever sound kind of unprofessional?

[Darato]

Thank you all. I have been back for a little over a week, but have been catching up with some other stuff, but glad to see how you all feel, really does make this feel more like a family

L.F.D.

[7 tyranitars]

It seems we have resurrected from the death. (the irony, since it is halloween )

[Moonlight Amaryllis]

It seems we have resurrected from the death. (the irony, since it is halloween )

Oh my gosh, I didn't realize that until you said it. That is actually pretty funny. What a weird irony with such perfect timing!

[7 tyranitars]

Oh my gosh, I didn't realize that until you said it. That is actually pretty funny. What a weird irony with such perfect timing!

Lol thanks, I was actualy thinking of it after I typed it :P.

[Moonlight Amaryllis]

Lol thanks, I was actualy thinking of it after I typed it :P.

Well, now that its November, think of Thanksgiving irony and your set! XD

[Profesco]

Anyways I actually came for some sort of advice. Im currently debating with another member about the existence of god, and then he brings up the clock work universe theory. Ive seen it multiple times and have had a similar number of rebuttals,but I sometimes feel like my rebuttals dont always sound convincing or game changing.

Do you guys ever feel like...you know an argument is wrong but either forgot or dont know whats wrong with it or cant make a poignant criticism? What do you do in those cases? Also, does referring to some one else ever sound kind of unprofessional?

Clockwork universe? That's an argument for deism. They're typically trickier to deal with than arguments for a specific, personal god. Also, don't be too disappointed if your counterarguments aren't "game-changing." The move from theism/deism to atheism (and vice-versa) is a full on gestalt shift; it can't be achieved by intellectual points alone. It's a revision of one's wordlview and is more resistant to change than the average opinion.

And yes, I've experienced the feeling you mention. I forget how counterarguments go more often than I'd care to admit, and that's not helped by the seemingly innumerable ways age-old arguments can be contorted into new shapes to make them sound convincing. It's no big deal, though, to sometimes need a refresher course on certain arguments. These aren't generally the kind of conversations you have in everyday life, so they may not stick in memory as easily. When I'm in such a situation I take the time to look up the info I'm missing, or if it's a real-time debate I'll just rely on my own meager powers of criticism and try to field the arguments on the fly. What do you mean by referring to someone else, though?