Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

[Excitable Boy]

True, but you're not supposed to be 10 levels below them either, which happened several times to me throughout the game, so obviously there are some pacing issues in this game.

You're expected to do all of the side areas. The only way you could be that low of a level would be if you're rotating a huge amount of Pokemon, or if you're skipping Trainers.

They are, amazingly I can still mop the floor with them when I'm down about 2-3 levels.

"amazingly"

implying that it's any more difficult than a boss battle should be

[Bolt the Cat]

You're expected to do all of the side areas. The only way you could be that low of a level would be if you're rotating a huge amount of Pokemon, or if you're skipping Trainers.

Nope, I did every side area and I still ended up very underleveled in some spots. Notably before Clay (all of my Pokemon were abour 5-10 levels lower than his Excadrill), before Skyla (I recall having to train my Galvantula about 5 more levels to stand a chance against Skyla), and right about in the Lacunosa-Opelucid area (I ended up having to train my Growlithe a bit to defeat Zinzolin, and then my Flygon to beat Drayden).

"amazingly"implying that it's any more difficult than a boss battle should be

They should be tougher than that. Being able to go in underleveled and sweep through a boss is a sign that the difficulty is too low.

[R_N]

But that's the "thing" with Pokemon, if you do basic things like type match ups you're not going to be up against an opponent for much longer than 2 hits barring an annoying move (Rollout, sleep/confusion) that will trip you up like once

Often the biggest detriment is yourself (OH I BETTER USE ACUPRESSURE DESPITE HAVING ONLY ONE HIT LEFT oh everything is dying great)

[Excitable Boy]

Nope, I did every side area and I still ended up very underleveled in some spots. Notably before Clay (all of my Pokemon were abour 5-10 levels lower than his Excadrill), before Skyla (I recall having to train my Galvantula about 5 more levels to stand a chance against Skyla), and right about in the Lacunosa-Opelucid area (I ended up having to train my Growlithe a bit to defeat Zinzolin, and then my Flygon to beat Drayden).

So, you probably either skipped Trainers or were rotating out between some huge amount of Pokemon, or you're basing this on Challenge Mode. I'm honestly dumbfounded as to how someone using a static team of <six could battle every Trainer and somehow manage to be underleveled.

also leveling an Electric Pokemon that's already Lv. 36+ five levels to beat a Flying Leader with 37s-39s seriously calls your ability to play the game into question, no offense

They should be tougher than that. Being able to go in underleveled and sweep through a boss is a sign that the difficulty is too low.

If you were able to "sweep" the boss while 2-3 levels underleveled, then what's your problem? Obviously, if you're underleveled without grinding, that's intended so that the Gym Leader is actually challenging.

Are you complaining about the Gym Leaders being too easy, or are you complaining that you're too underleveled? The way the game is balanced, you can really only complain about one.

[Bolt the Cat]

But that's the "thing" with Pokemon, if you do basic things like type match ups you're not going to be up against an opponent for much longer than 2 hits barring an annoying move (Rollout, sleep/confusion) that will trip you up like once

Often the biggest detriment is yourself (OH I BETTER USE ACUPRESSURE DESPITE HAVING ONLY ONE HIT LEFT oh everything is dying great)

Type matchups are an elementary concept, gym leaders should use strategies that challenge you more than that.

So, you probably either skipped Trainers or were rotating out between some huge amount of Pokemon, or you're basing this on Challenge Mode. I'm honestly dumbfounded as to how someone using a static team of <six could battle every Trainer and somehow manage to be underleveled.

Well I don't grind on Audinos or use Lucky Eggs and stuff, but aside from that I'm doing everything I can.

also leveling an Electric Pokemon that's already Lv. 36+ five levels to beat a Flying Leader with 37s-39s seriously calls your ability to play the game into question, no offense

Sorry, I should've clarified. It was a Joltik that I was training into a Galvantula. Once it evolved, I went straight to the gym.

[Aurath8]

Type matchups are an elementary concept, gym leaders should use strategies that challenge you more than that.

Unfortunately type matchups are also very powerful things. A gym has to be designed very carefully to stand a chance of being able to balance it out with other strategies. With such limited pokemon choices within each type it'd be very hard to do so without doing a DP and giving gym leaders pokemon outside their type.
Anyway, it still doesn't change the fact that you can be severely underlevelled and, using the many advantages you have as a player including type matchups, beat the gym leader.

[Bolt the Cat]

With such limited pokemon choices within each type it'd be very hard to do so without doing a DP and giving gym leaders pokemon outside their type.

I'd actually welcome that, if they could make the gym themes more complex than monotypes. Like if you had a mountain themed gym with Rock, Ground, and Steel types or something like that.

[sAv1Or)]

I'd actually welcome that, if they could make the gym themes more complex than monotypes. Like if you had a mountain themed gym with Rock, Ground, and Steel types or something like that.

When I think about this, I think of Flint from DP. I love what they did with his team.

[Bolt the Cat]

When I think about this, I think of Flint from DP. I love what they did with his team.

I didn't. It wasn't appropriate in that context because he was explicitly a Fire type trainer that didn't have enough Fire types to work with. If they'd have said he's not a Fire only trainer, I would've been okay with that. But as it stands, his Platinum team is more representative of what kinds of Pokemon he likes to train.

[Philosophix]

I like what they did with Flint in DP.He was like the only trainer in the E4 with variety. They should do what they did in HG/SS with Blue with at least one future gym leader. Do you agree?

[Bolt the Cat]

I like what they did with Flint in DP.He was like the only trainer in the E4 with variety. They should do what they did in HG/SS with Blue with at least one future gym leader. Do you agree?

More mixed teams? Sure, I'd love to see that. What'd really be interesting is if the gyms have more complex themes, for instance one could be a ruins theme with Rock, Ground, Psychic, and Ghost types. That way you can still use type matchups if you want, but it's harder to sweep through with one Pokemon.

[spiller]

characters who specialize in realated types like a champion who used elements of the earth, steel rock and ground. or a triple threat leader who uses the starter types, or a physical leader who uses types that where classed as physical before gen 4. i think that would be cool

[Bolt the Cat]

or a triple threat leader who uses the starter types

The Striaton Trio in BW1 was close enough to that.

[spiller]

they could have a gym leader whith a dual type pokemon and instead of specialising in the 1 pokemon the gym could specialize in both like a flying/ fighting gym or a electric ground or water ground. i think that would be so cool

[Aurath8]

I think they need to mix up gym themes in general. While monotype gyms can and have worked pretty well over the past 15 years, often they get too predictable because there aren't adequate ways to defend against the type it's weak against. It was all OK for Clay who had Palpitoad and Excadrill neutralising Grounds weaknesses but Brycen was a bit of a joke in comparison. It was more a fault of the region than anything because they only had 3 pure Ice types, but with a more loose, accomodating theme he could include Ground types like Golett to handle Fire/Rock/Steel types or a Water type like Basculin. Of course, monotype gyms shouldn't go completely but when it begins to compromise challenge then it's time act.

[Wishing Star]

Nope, I did every side area and I still ended up very underleveled in some spots. Notably before Clay, and right about in the Lacunosa-Opelucid area.

The problem between Nimbasa and Driftveil especially is that there is very little trainer availability in between the two cities. The only real place to train is Route 6 (and the very beginning of Chargestone Cave). :/

[Bolt the Cat]

The problem between Nimbasa and Driftveil especially is that there is very little trainer availability in between the two cities. The only real place to train is Route 6 (and the very beginning of Chargestone Cave). :/

Right, it's a regional design issue. Gyms shouldn't be that close together past the first or second gym.

[Wishing Star]

More mixed teams? Sure, I'd love to see that. What'd really be interesting is if the gyms have more complex themes, for instance one could be a ruins theme with Rock, Ground, Psychic, and Ghost types. That way you can still use type matchups if you want, but it's harder to sweep through with one Pokemon.

This would actually make a lot of sense and be pretty interesting.

I'll be the first to say that Marlon's gym could have been Grass and Water under these conditions. (:

[PaddysTurtwigFanClub]

Yea i agree that Unova's layout is rather messed up with little/ no training time between Nimbasa and Driftveil, but i never found my team severely underleveled.

On the subject of mixing up gym types i will voice my opinion : To make gyms a little less predictable all they have to do is throw in a unexpected dual type e.g. Skarmory with Skyla.
The striaton trio are not a great example to go by as they weren't overly powerful to begin with, and due to the fact you are given a pan-monkey superior to that of the leaders, it defeats the purpose. They don't need to go the extreme like with blue, but they could mix things up a little with movesets to make it more challenging.

[Wishing Star]

On the subject of mixing up gym types i will voice my opinion : To make gyms a little less predictable all they have to do is throw in a unexpected dual type e.g. Skarmory with Skyla.

Some people would argue that the addition of just one Pokémon isn't enough. I'd rather have such a lower level of unpredictability be scattered throughout the entire gym, not just at the gym leader.