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Thread: Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #6751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson_Blazer View Post
    How is something thats ingame non-canon? Doesnt the fact that its in the game make it canon?
    Generally, yes. Hence my personal headcanon which states otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    I don't think the police care at all. Not once do they even acknowledge Giovanni as a threat to track down.
    Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if people knew about him at all

    Giovanni: saved by mass incompetence
    Well, wasn't there a Global Police officer in RBY that was on the lookout for Team Rocket? Wait, then again, the man outside of the Viridian Gym didn't know that Giovanni was the head of TR, so it might not have been common knowledge...and it still might not be; I remember someone pointing out that just because Neo Team Rocket took over the Radio Tower and broadcast the name "Giovanni" all over, it doesn't automatically mean that the populace would recognize that they were referring to the Giovanni.
    Last edited by Endolise; 10th July 2012 at 8:23 AM.
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    Heck Giovanni probablly could go on trial, but the court wouldn't have enough evidence to convict him.

    They have the word of 1 ten year old.

  3. #6753
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalFlygon08 View Post
    Heck Giovanni probablly could go on trial, but the court wouldn't have enough evidence to convict him.

    They have the word of 1 ten year old.
    A mute 10 year old

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    A mute 10 year old
    I can imagine the Court Session now...

    The prosecution calls RED to the stand!

    Looker:"Red is it? Can you testify to the court the crimes and connections you have personally witnessed this man commit in cooperation with Team Rocket?"

    RED:"..."

    Whole Court:"GASP!"

  5. #6755
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    A mute 10 year old
    Who's lived hermit-like on a mountain top for 3+ years. Yeah, really screams 'sanity'. Poor ol Red, he's gone crackers.

    How is something thats ingame non-canon? Doesnt the fact that its in the game make it canon?
    There's no way the WT can be canon. It's hugely unlikely, at best. Certain characters not having aged despite the time jump, the fact that 5 regions worth of gyms would have to be shut down, the list goes on...
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  6. #6756
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Honestly I'd raise a bigger eyebrow if, for instance, Cyrus was in the tournament.
    Am I the only one who thinks that a villains tournament with Giovanni, Maxie, Archie, Cyrus, Ghetsis, and a few others would be awesome?

    Quote Originally Posted by sSerenity View Post
    Perhaps he did go to jail but he's free now ... ?
    I doubt it. If Giovanni went to jail, they probably wouldn't let him out in 5 years or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endolise View Post
    Well, wasn't there a Global Police officer in RBY that was on the lookout for Team Rocket? Wait, then again, the man outside of the Viridian Gym didn't know that Giovanni was the head of TR, so it might not have been common knowledge...and it still might not be; I remember someone pointing out that just because Neo Team Rocket took over the Radio Tower and broadcast the name "Giovanni" all over, it doesn't automatically mean that the populace would recognize that they were referring to the Giovanni.
    The fact that Giovanni was the Viridian Gym Leader is also not common knowledge IIRC.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    I doubt it. If Giovanni went to jail, they probably wouldn't let him out in 5 years or so.
    *glances at the sages*

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    Quote Originally Posted by myriada View Post
    Botsuri is described as having a creepy laugh and wants to experiment on you.
    Ieji wants to become a Ground-type Pokemon. ("I will! I'm serious!!")
    Cult is weird, she talks about seven-fingered hands singing ice-cream-flavoured psychics, then falls asleep.
    Walter seems to have no personality to speak of whatsoever.
    Rensuke is a 'shock creator' who lives in a haunted house.
    Ryuuichi talks about the pride of dragons, and was apparently 'chosen by dragons'. (His name can mean '#1 Dragon')
    Thatcher says she can withstand any attack with her Steeled heart, then cries when you beat her.
    Vito turned to Evil because he 'sinned' by stealing a 10-yen coin someone dropped on the ground. (about 8p)
    Illusane is described as the 'Queen of Evil' and has a typical Japanese ojousama laugh. (stuck-up lady)
    Bonnie is a coward who decides that anything goes as long as he wins, even running away to avoid losing.

    (Note that all genders except Illusane(Female), Rensuke, Walter and Eiji(Male) are implied from mannerisms, and could be incorrect)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SasakiThePikachu View Post
    There's no way the WT can be canon. It's hugely unlikely, at best. Certain characters not having aged despite the time jump*, the fact that 5 regions worth of gyms would have to be shut down**, the list goes on...
    *Can you say they haven't aged? No, looks aren't very reliable (I can attest to that), plus not everyone's going to age like our E4 Caitlin.
    **Gyms temporarily close all the time. Clay's, Giovanni's, Jasmine's, Pryce's, Volkner's all weren't open for a period of time. I don't see why the gym leaders can't go on holiday for a bit. (Crasher wake, Maylene, and Jasmine come to mind)

    Let the list keep going!

    ~KuroiMawile, proud supporter of cannon-World Tournement
    Last edited by KuroiMawile; 10th July 2012 at 10:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    *glances at the sages*
    They weren't directly stated to have gone to jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  11. #6761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    They weren't directly stated to have gone to jail.
    It was the entire point of Looker's search

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    It was the entire point of Looker's search
    Looker was moreso looking for Ghetsis than the other six sages.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  13. #6763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Looker was moreso looking for Ghetsis than the other six sages.
    "But, however! However, but... The ones known as the Seven Sages--still they hide themselves in the Unova region."
    "And so, in the end, it explains why I must ask this of you, Trainer of amazing skill! Travel the Unova region and search it up and search it down for the Seven Sages! Alder, the Champion of renown, recommended you to my notice. Are you willing to help me?"
    and then once you find 6 of them he says that Ghetsis is still missing

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    I think it's clear the Sages, um, escaped from prison.

  15. #6765
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    Or were released*

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eleventh View Post
    I think it's clear the Sages, um, escaped from prison.
    I'm guessing no one cares considering Rood is just chilling in Driftviel

  17. #6767

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroiMawile View Post
    Or were released*
    Why would they be released a mere two years after they were imprisoned? The Pokémon world has to make sense in some—

    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    I'm guessing no one cares considering Rood is just chilling in Driftviel
    Oh, wait.

  18. #6768
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eleventh View Post
    Why would they be released a mere two years after they were imprisoned? The Pokémon world has to make sense in some—


    Oh, wait.
    Actually, the 6 were very co-operative. I wouldn't be surprised if they had reduced sentences (assuming they didn't just escape) and who knows what, specifically, they were charged with.

  19. #6769
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroiMawile View Post
    *Can you say they haven't aged? No, looks aren't very reliable (I can attest to that), plus not everyone's going to age like our E4 Caitlin.
    **Gyms temporarily close all the time. Clay's, Giovanni's, Jasmine's, Pryce's, Volkner's all weren't open for a period of time. I don't see why the gym leaders can't go on holiday for a bit. (Crasher wake, Maylene, and Jasmine come to mind)

    Let the list keep going!

    ~KuroiMawile, proud supporter of cannon-World Tournement
    Sorry, but the fact that Caitlin did age significantly while other characters have a) not aged and b) not even changed outfits DOES kind of scream that this probably isn't canon. Why would they age Caitlin and...literally no-one else?

    And are you honestly suggesting that multiple regions suddenly shutting down *all* of their gyms and having their champions go AWOL for an unlimited stretch of time wouldn't screw up the Pokemon Universe, which pretty much centres around the gyms, in the slightest? A few characters going walkabouts in their 1 local region for a limited amount of time is not the same thing at all.

    Finally, if this were meant to be taken as canon, why do none of the specially imported gym leaders/champions have other cameos and roles in the game, like Cynthia and Steven? Answer: they're not meant to be taken as part of the storyline, only as a fun extra.

    Sasaki...proud supporter of common sense.
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  20. #6770
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    Quote Originally Posted by SasakiThePikachu View Post
    they're not meant to be taken as part of the storyline, only as a fun extra.
    Maxy (Wake) does have a cameo on Route 18, and people talk about Misty in Seigaiha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SasakiThePikachu View Post
    Sorry, but the fact that Caitlin did age significantly while other characters have a) not aged and b) not even changed outfits DOES kind of scream that this probably isn't canon. Why would they age Caitlin and...literally no-one else?

    And are you honestly suggesting that multiple regions suddenly shutting down *all* of their gyms and having their champions go AWOL for an unlimited stretch of time wouldn't screw up the Pokemon Universe, which pretty much centres around the gyms, in the slightest? A few characters going walkabouts in their 1 local region for a limited amount of time is not the same thing at all.

    Finally, if this were meant to be taken as canon, why do none of the specially imported gym leaders/champions have other cameos and roles in the game, like Cynthia and Steven? Answer: they're not meant to be taken as part of the storyline, only as a fun extra.

    Sasaki...proud supporter of common sense.
    I am pretty sure every gym has some kind of replacement. like Juan replaced Wallace. Cheren replaced Lenora, Flannery her grandfather, Janine her father, Green replaced Giovanni and Drayden Replaced Iris as the Opulicid gymleader. Besides that, I think they can easily get on of their top trainers to replace them. There are more then those 8 skilled trainers.


    LT Surge, Koga, Bruno, Skyla, Clay, Lenora,Shauntal, Marshall, Grimsley (heck, even Caitlin) the triplets, Brycen, Burgh, Drayden and Lance never botherd changing their outfits either in the 2 year span happening between fr-lg/hg-ss and b-w/b2-w2. The only thing that IS odd is the fact that Maylene and the twins are still young.

    And.. really? Are we discussing common sense in a game with Monsters that fit into Pokéballs, those monsters having powers like electrocuting someone with 10 thousand volt? Really?

    I don't know if it is canon or not, and I don't really care either, but I think the PWT is the best battle facilty ever and hope to see it in the later games as well.
    Last edited by Machoke; 10th July 2012 at 11:44 PM.
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  22. #6772
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    Quote Originally Posted by SasakiThePikachu View Post
    Sorry, but the fact that Caitlin did age significantly while other characters have a) not aged and b) not even changed outfits DOES kind of scream that this probably isn't canon. Why would they age Caitlin and...literally no-one else?

    And are you honestly suggesting that multiple regions suddenly shutting down *all* of their gyms and having their champions go AWOL for an unlimited stretch of time wouldn't screw up the Pokemon Universe, which pretty much centres around the gyms, in the slightest? A few characters going walkabouts in their 1 local region for a limited amount of time is not the same thing at all.

    Finally, if this were meant to be taken as canon, why do none of the specially imported gym leaders/champions have other cameos and roles in the game, like Cynthia and Steven? Answer: they're not meant to be taken as part of the storyline, only as a fun extra.

    Sasaki...proud supporter of common sense.
    First point rules Cynthia's Summer Vista Adventures as non-cannon, since she didn't age. I'd say it's more Caitlin being the exception of aging drastically compared to literally everyone else. Also, who's to say they don't enjoy their outfits enough to, as cartoons and games do, have identical pairs of the same clothes (Red, Bruno after 3 years, Oak)

    Wake, Jasmine, and Maylene are doing walkabouts in a southern region for 'unlimited stretched of time' in Johto; same with Steven in Kanto. If I recall, Giovanni hadn't visited Viridian's Gym in a while as well. Champions do go off on their own all the time (3rd gen/remakes being the exception).
    If the point of 'unlimited stretch of time' is that you can play the Regional and World Tournaments over and over, I argue it'd be pretty trollish to give the player two opportunities against each region's Gym and only one go against the champions because, 'Gym Leader Brock must get back to Kanto'.
    Example: Jasmine could have been in Sinnoh until the World Tournament unless otherwise stated. We don't know when she left, just that she probably did. How can we be sure the World Tournament lasts longer than, say a month or a Pokéyear?

    Wake is seen on route 18, I believe. Besides, there aren't many meaningful roles left in the game to give say, Clair, after the main story. A visual cameo is always nice though, but Steven didn't need to be seen to know he was in Sinnoh.

    I'll concede, based on the following, that the Gyms could potential be debatable, (but then Wake seems out of place). However from what you've said, the 'Pokéstoryline' can still hold up the WT as having happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia
    "Once every few years, the Champions of each region gather and compete to see who is the strongest! An interesting idea, don't you agree?"
    Though that assumes Cynthia's Summer Vista Adventures is cannon.

    [this may be something more to Storyline-Characters?]

    Quote Originally Posted by Machoke View Post
    I don't know if it is canon or not, and I don't really care either, but I think the PWT is the best battle facilty ever and hope to see it in the later games as well.
    Machoke has the best approach to this.
    Last edited by KuroiMawile; 10th July 2012 at 11:49 PM.

  23. #6773
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    Quote Originally Posted by SasakiThePikachu View Post
    b) not even changed outfits
    They could all just have really bad hygiene.

    Butyeah, it's obviously not canon. Post-game stuff like this rarely has any effect on the grand scheme of things, and is rarely supposed to be canon. Like how the Battle Frontier existed simultaneously in Johto and Sinnoh, battle facilities are never canon.


    re: the Sages, it's likely that they just got suspended sentences or something. The fact that Zinzolin is still apparently allowed to just go free and chill in Undella does make you raise an eyebrow though.

  24. #6774
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    So... Icirrus Gym is still where it was in BW, even the puzzle is untouched, though only Clyde and Brycen are inside when we first visit. Brycen talks a little, then leaves. Any clue on what he says?

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  25. #6775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver-mont View Post
    So... Icirrus Gym is still where it was in BW, even the puzzle is untouched, though only Clyde and Brycen are inside when we first visit. Brycen talks a little, then leaves. Any clue on what he says?
    I'm more curious what Clyde says, since Brycen's probably just reminiscing

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