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Thread: Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #8151

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    The latter Gym Leaders and Elite Four only having four Pokémon greatly annoys me, too. I can't come up with any reasoning for it, other than it being a way to make the game easier. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the intention. After all, they gave us a very linear region that was exceptionally easy to navigate.
    Last edited by The Eleventh; 3rd November 2012 at 6:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalFlygon08 View Post
    My only guess is Elite 4 equals 4 pokemon, Now somewhere like Hoenn that could've worked, what with all the repeats in both species and families.
    Why choose now to use that theme, though? If that's the reason, they should've done that since 1st gen.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eleventh View Post
    The latter Gym Leaders and Elite Four only have four Pokémon greatly annoys me, too. I can't come up with any reasoning for it, other than it being a way to make the game easier. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the intention. After all, they gave us a very linear region that was exceptionally easy to navigate.
    Yeah, they definitely went overboard trying to make BW1 and BW2 easier. Now that we have Easy Mode, they have no need to do something like this again, as long as they make Easy Mode available from the start.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Guys in BW3 there will be super challenge mode where the gym leaders have five pokemon and elite four have six. To unlock it, you have to play Black 3 twice, and then unlock it on White 3.

    Seriously, I completely agree the Elite 4 is a cake walk. I had three pokemon and didn't lose once. I didn't like the types the Elite 4 had either, too little variety. Also, I didn't like the people they chose for it. Why not use Lenora?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilpulp View Post
    Guys in BW3 there will be super challenge mode where the gym leaders have five pokemon and elite four have six. To unlock it, you have to play Black 3 twice, and then unlock it on White 3.
    Please tell me this is your idea of a joke. And if it is, it's not funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilpulp View Post
    Seriously, I completely agree the Elite 4 is a cake walk. I had three pokemon and didn't lose once. I didn't like the types the Elite 4 had either, too little variety. Also, I didn't like the people they chose for it. Why not use Lenora?
    That, plus all of those types have been used before, twice each as a matter of fact. Meanwhile, we've never seen a Normal, Grass, Electric, Flying, or Rock type Elite 4 member at all, and there are plenty of other types that have only been done once. Mix it up a bit, will you Game Freak?
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Please tell me this is your idea of a joke. And if it is, it's not funny.



    That, plus all of those types have been used before, twice each as a matter of fact. Meanwhile, we've never seen a Normal, Grass, Electric, Flying, or Rock type Elite 4 member at all, and there are plenty of other types that have only been done once. Mix it up a bit, will you Game Freak?
    For starters, that joke was funny >:I

    I agree, I want to see a Electric and Flying type Elite 4 really bad. Also, no more Dragon Type champions. A normal type one would be sort of cool.

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    Skyla's Gym was tough for me to navigate through. I wasn't able to reach all the walls on time and I got pushed back a few times. Plus I had to heal my Pokemon right before I reached her, so I had to go through the Gym twice. It seems to be a running gag at her Gym that challengers have to put up with the most ridiculous puzzles and have to suffer various injuries just to reach her. And here I thought hitting just one wall after being fired from a cannon was bad enough. But at least she didn't pose much of a challenge during the battle.

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    Marlon-Golduck, Mantine, Ludicolo, Wailord

    Marlon CM- Golduck, Mantine, Wailord, Jellicent, Ludicolo

    What do you guys think?
    Signature edited due to exceeding the gif size limit. Please read the signature rules before editing your signature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th Kira View Post
    Skyla's Gym was tough for me to navigate through. I wasn't able to reach all the walls on time and I got pushed back a few times. Plus I had to heal my Pokemon right before I reached her, so I had to go through the Gym twice. It seems to be a running gag at her Gym that challengers have to put up with the most ridiculous puzzles and have to suffer various injuries just to reach her. And here I thought hitting just one wall after being fired from a cannon was bad enough. But at least she didn't pose much of a challenge during the battle.
    I'd rather be slammed into the wall by forceful winds than fall into an eternal pit of unforgiving doom.
    Who knows that lies down beneath. I doubt there's any ladders to assist your way back up like there were in Morty's gym.
    Under Construction

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Screw that could you imagine Dunsparce?
    At that point of the game?

    That'd be horrible, even for Challenge Mode
    I am currently doing Challenge mode in White2, I lost to that gym twice (mind you Snivy was only lv14)

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Screw that could you imagine Dunsparce?
    At that point of the game?

    That'd be horrible, even for Challenge Mode
    As long as it has a controlled moveset, it's beatable. Work Up/Pursuit/Rollout/Defense Curl. I guess the huge amount of Pokemon to choose from before Gym 1 can help. Welcome to Unova and enjoy your stay.

    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    Also, Ampharos at 4th Gym. Ignoring the fact that it's underleveled or the fact that it overshadows Zebstrika, it's hard as crap.

    & lol @ Challenge Baltoy. Put Gligar in there instead of Onix. Let's see how your Grass type likes STAB no-item Acrobatics, scumbag. Hell, you could even give him a Stunfisk to screw with Water types.
    Because underleveled Pokemon have not been used before. Level 30 is close enough to Elesa's average. Level up that hoe. Baltoy fits him better than Gligar and Stunfisk, though both would be admittedly better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    As long as it has a controlled moveset, it's beatable. Work Up/Pursuit/Rollout/Defense Curl. I guess the huge amount of Pokemon to choose from before Gym 1 can help. Welcome to Unova and enjoy your stay.
    THIS IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF A GOOD MOVESET FOR THE FIRST GYM
    Dunsparce is waaaay too strong with that, especially when you still have to deal with two other Pokemon after the fact

    I mean look at this stupid thing:
    1. It can boost the power of both Pursuit & Rollout at any time
    2. It can increase its defense as well. Remember this it will be important
    3. In addition to that, Defense Curl doubles the power of Rollout. Not even Whitney gave her Miltank Defense Curl
    4. Let's talk about Rollout. With Defense Curl we are now looking at double power across the board. Even if it misses after the first strike that's still 60 bp. And unlike Whitney, we don't have anything that can resist this.
    5. As I said, very little to resist that. Purrloin, Sunkern & Azurill are very frial. Pidove is weak to rock. Riolu does, mercifully, resist it, but this can easily go south due to the fraility of the thing (some people had issue Countering Cheren's Normal Lillipup). The remainder might be able to stand up against the first strike, but what will they do in relatiation?
    6. Have you seen this thing's stats? People have had issues with Lillipup before. When I went up against Cheren in Challenge mode, I was so disheartened to see how comparatively little damage I was dealing.
    Now imagine that with something that, across the board save for speed, has higher stats than just about anything else available to you. More specifically, look at that HP stat. And this thing can increase its Defenses?!
    7. Having Pursuit is just cruel and you know it.

    There's this Nursery Aide near the end of Route 20 with a single Dunsparce, around level 11 or so. She nearly made me white out! And I believe that goes for other people (I've also heard one or two people say that the rustling grass dunsparce also almost did them in).
    So imagine Cheren having one of these. That's harder than Roxie could ever dream to be, frankly

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    I defeated Cheren easily on my first try, on challenge mode. It was no challenge. I had a Azurill /w Adamant Nature and Tepig /w Jolly Nature. I'm not saying he needs to have stronger pokemon, maybe some people found it difficult, it depends, most people didn't SR their starter for a specific nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    THIS IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF A GOOD MOVESET FOR THE FIRST GYM
    Dunsparce is waaaay too strong with that, especially when you still have to deal with two other Pokemon after the fact

    I mean look at this stupid thing:
    1. It can boost the power of both Pursuit & Rollout at any time
    2. It can increase its defense as well. Remember this it will be important
    3. In addition to that, Defense Curl doubles the power of Rollout. Not even Whitney gave her Miltank Defense Curl
    4. Let's talk about Rollout. With Defense Curl we are now looking at double power across the board. Even if it misses after the first strike that's still 60 bp. And unlike Whitney, we don't have anything that can resist this.
    5. As I said, very little to resist that. Purrloin, Sunkern & Azurill are very frial. Pidove is weak to rock. Riolu does, mercifully, resist it, but this can easily go south due to the fraility of the thing (some people had issue Countering Cheren's Normal Lillipup). The remainder might be able to stand up against the first strike, but what will they do in relatiation?
    6. Have you seen this thing's stats? People have had issues with Lillipup before. When I went up against Cheren in Challenge mode, I was so disheartened to see how comparatively little damage I was dealing.
    Now imagine that with something that, across the board save for speed, has higher stats than just about anything else available to you. More specifically, look at that HP stat. And this thing can increase its Defenses?!
    7. Having Pursuit is just cruel and you know it.

    There's this Nursery Aide near the end of Route 20 with a single Dunsparce, around level 11 or so. She nearly made me white out! And I believe that goes for other people (I've also heard one or two people say that the rustling grass dunsparce also almost did them in).
    So imagine Cheren having one of these. That's harder than Roxie could ever dream to be, frankly
    Train Riolu to Lv. 15 so it learns Force Palm, then every Normal type at that point in the game is a piece of cake. Even if Cheren had a Dunsparce at that point, it still would go down in about 2 or 3 hits, so Riolu will at the very least put a huge dent in it if not outright kill it.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    The only thing you could really do against Dunsparce without over leveling would be to catch your own, and even then it would be pretty hard to do anything to the damn thing. Cheren should just have had Pidove over Patrat on normal mode, if only to make him less of a Babynora.

    Most of the Gym Leader teams are fine, but I would have thrown Marlon a fourth Pokemon (Starmie? Mantine?) and replaced Swadloon with Yanma or something on Burgh (Skyla could use a Gliscor over Swoobat and Drayden could use a fourth Pokemon if we're being picky, but all of this is honestly not that big of a deal).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Please tell me this is your idea of a joke. And if it is, it's not funny.
    Yeah Pilpulp, you're toying with this guy's heart :@

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilpulp View Post
    I defeated Cheren easily on my first try, on challenge mode. It was no challenge. I had a Azurill /w Adamant Nature and Tepig /w Jolly Nature. I'm not saying he needs to have stronger pokemon, maybe some people found it difficult, it depends, most people didn't SR their starter for a specific nature.
    Natures will only raise lower a stat by 1-2 at most at that point in the game. It doesn't make much difference. What really helps is having high enough levels as you need to be able to hit hard and quickly before Patrat/Lillipup get too many Work Up boosts and steamroll everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurawarrior8 View Post
    Natures will only raise lower a stat by 1-2 at most at that point in the game. It doesn't make much difference. What really helps is having high enough levels as you need to be able to hit hard and quickly before Patrat/Lillipup get too many Work Up boosts and steamroll everything.
    With the amount of level grinding I did at the start of the game, it helped.
    Some people are saying it took them multiple times to beat him, obviously I'm doing something right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Train Riolu to Lv. 15 so it learns Force Palm, then every Normal type at that point in the game is a piece of cake. Even if Cheren had a Dunsparce at that point, it still would go down in about 2 or 3 hits, so Riolu will at the very least put a huge dent in it if not outright kill it.
    If you need to grind to unreasonable levels just to stand a chance, something is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilpulp View Post
    With the amount of level grinding I did at the start of the game, it helped.
    Some people are saying it took them multiple times to beat him, obviously I'm doing something right.
    >Claims to be good at RPG and doesn't understand why people have difficulty
    >Grinded in said RPG

    If we're going by the logic of "grinding makes it easy," then the vast majority of RPGs are easy. Yes, even MegaTen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valoo. View Post
    The only thing you could really do against Dunsparce without over leveling would be to catch your own
    You don't get rustling grass until after the first Gym, so catching Dunsparce is impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    If you need to grind to unreasonable levels just to stand a chance, something is wrong.
    I don't think Dunsparce is a good pokemon to face on the first gym either, but.

    >15
    >unreasonable

    I don't train at all early-game(unless fighting the trainers in your way counts) and when I get to a gym, my pokemon are usually at level 12-14. :x
    Last edited by Josef Stylin; 5th November 2012 at 12:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullkid View Post
    I don't train at all early-game(unless fighting the trainers in your way counts) and when I get to a gym, my pokemon are usually at level 12-14. :x
    But that's using a team of 2-4 'mons, isn't it? Even then, you don't have anything Lv. 15. Playing White 2 on Challenge Mode, I grinded for about half an hour, and went into Cheren with six Lv. 10s. Taking into account curved Exp., it's difficult to get better than that without more grinding.

    Lv. 15 is higher than what Cheren uses, anyway. Chances are if you're packing -anything- at Lv. 15, you can probably win with your starter or whatever just because of the level difference, in that you're overleveled instead of underleveled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    If you need to grind to unreasonable levels just to stand a chance, something is wrong.



    >Claims to be good at RPG and doesn't understand why people have difficulty
    >Grinded in said RPG

    If we're going by the logic of "grinding makes it easy," then the vast majority of RPGs are easy. Yes, even MegaTen.
    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    But that's using a team of 2-4 'mons, isn't it? Even then, you don't have anything Lv. 15. Playing White 2 on Challenge Mode, I grinded for about half an hour, and went into Cheren with six Lv. 10s. Taking into account curved Exp., it's difficult to get better than that without more grinding.

    Lv. 15 is higher than what Cheren uses, anyway. Chances are if you're packing -anything- at Lv. 15, you can probably win with your starter or whatever just because of the level difference, in that you're overleveled instead of underleveled.
    Overleveled =/= unreasonable. You can train your Pokemon to Lv. 15 without too much effort. At any rate, overleveling is a perfectly valid solution, just like any other strategy you could come up with. Nothing says you have to be able to beat Cheren with Lv. 11 Pokemon, and in fact that would make him too easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  22. #8172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Overleveled =/= unreasonable. You can train your Pokemon to Lv. 15 without too much effort. At any rate, overleveling is a perfectly valid solution, just like any other strategy you could come up with. Nothing says you have to be able to beat Cheren with Lv. 11 Pokemon, and in fact that would make him too easy.
    Yeah. I remember when I was playing Platinum for the first time, my turtwig was already like level 20 by the first gym. I pretty much fought every pokemon I ran into.
    岩根雅明=♡

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    As long as it has a controlled moveset, it's beatable. Work Up/Pursuit/Rollout/Defense Curl. I guess the huge amount of Pokemon to choose from before Gym 1 can help. Welcome to Unova and enjoy your stay.
    I'd rather just make it have some Normal-type move instead of Rollout. It may not learn any Normal-type moves upon level up that early in the game (too lazy to check), but who says that Game Freak can't just edit that specific Dunsparce's moveset?





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    Finished with Challenge Mode Elite Four and Champion. Difficulty varied, one time I managed to have a real easy time with Shauntal, but I didn't want that so I restarted, then I ended up being down to one Pokemon(I was doing 5 vs 5, so I left Flygon out as it was making things easier for me). Same thing happened again a few times, but in the end I was able to do 5 vs 5 and come down to one Pokemon each time. I also got lucky a few times with getting Flinches and Critical Hits in. Then with Iris, I lost a few times(I restarted when I lost, didn't want to start all over again), but when I did win I had two Pokemon left, Zoroark who had little HP and Serperior who had full HP. I probably lost(Including restarting before I lost, sometimes started off rough and I knew it wasn't going to get any better) around 10 or so times.
    3DS Friend Code: 3153-4608-8374
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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    If you need to grind to unreasonable levels just to stand a chance, something is wrong.



    >Claims to be good at RPG and doesn't understand why people have difficulty
    >Grinded in said RPG

    If we're going by the logic of "grinding makes it easy," then the vast majority of RPGs are easy. Yes, even MegaTen.
    Your argument is moot since it's all based on your personal view. Somebody can also argue that you shouldn't use elemental advantages if you're a "good gamer", since it makes things easier. While it can be fun and many times more rewarding to finish the game with a challenge, having a few level advantage will always be a good and viable way to get around doing things in RPGs. The fact of the matter is if it's not working, change something; be it your strategy, your move-set, or your level. Regardless of how you kill the Beef Gate, what matters is that you killed the Beef Gate.


    Anyone saying Red is a good trainer please explain to me how he can have a Jolteon get OHKO'ed by a Thunderbolt. From a Rhyhorn.

    Proud owner of an English Unnerve Mewtwo.

    I'm currently in Sinnoh and Johto-Kanto at the moment. If you want to do a trade, notify me when as I won't be online in Kalos (Gen VI).

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