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Thread: Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #8226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Yes, it's a legitimate strategy, but the average player that goes through the game shouldn't be forced to use death fodder if they don't want to regardless of how difficult a gym leader is.
    What, exactly, is wrong with it, then? I do it all the time.

    It's a matter of something's going to die now, might as well lessen it as much as possible and make the best of it. It's still possible to win ignoring this, but not wanting to use a Pokemon for death fodder is getting into "well using Magnemite against Roxie is CHEATING because she's so helpless against it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    What, exactly, is wrong with it, then? I do it all the time.
    Nothing is wrong with the actual strategy itself.

    I still stand by the opinion that players should never be obligated to use something as death fodder upon facing a difficult opponent. Having one of their Pokémon give it their all, sure, but never death fodder. Again, the strategy itself is perfectly legitimate and usable, but the difficult of the battle should never force a player to use such a strategy.





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  3. #8228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Nothing is wrong with the actual strategy itself.

    I still stand by the opinion that players should never be obligated to use something as death fodder upon facing a difficult opponent. Having one of their Pokémon give it their all, sure, but never death fodder. Again, the strategy itself is perfectly legitimate and usable, but the difficult of the battle should never force a player to use such a strategy.
    I don't see why not. It's a good strategy to keep key Pokemon healthy and in-play. So if you are about to face an opponent you know you're going to have trouble w/, why not sacrifice one for the team. In the end it's all about the W so whatever gets you there, no matter the difficulty

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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    I don't see why not. It's a good strategy to keep key Pokemon healthy and in-play. So if you are about to face an opponent you know you're going to have trouble w/, why not sacrifice one for the team. In the end it's all about the W so whatever gets you there, no matter the difficulty
    Again, there's nothing wrong with the actual strategy. But when the difficulty of a battle forces a player to use that strategy even when they're reasonably leveled for that point in the game, there's probably something wrong.





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  5. #8230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Again, there's nothing wrong with the actual strategy. But when the difficulty of a battle forces a player to use that strategy even when they're reasonably leveled for that point in the game, there's probably something wrong.
    Not necessarily. It's playing safely and using your resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    Not necessarily. It's playing safely and using your resources.
    Yeah, but it doesn't address my opinion that players shouldn't be required to use the death fodder strategy just to beat a gym. :/





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    You're still evading the question.

    If there's nothing wrong with the strategy, why should it not be used?

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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    You're still evading the question.

    If there's nothing wrong with the strategy, why should it not be used?
    I never said that it shouldn't never be used.

    I've been saying that the difficulty of the battle shouldn't force the player to use it if they don't want to.





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  9. #8234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    I never said that it shouldn't never be used.

    I've been saying that the difficulty of the battle shouldn't force the player to use it if they don't want to.
    And you're not. You'll just be down a non-fodder Pokemon, is all.

    Hell, you could X Defend a bulky Pokemon and probably survive as well, since you can buy them from the guy in the house-thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    And you're not. You'll just be down a non-fodder Pokemon, is all.

    Hell, you could X Defend a bulky Pokemon and probably survive as well, since you can buy them from the guy in the house-thing.
    Of course you're not, but that wouldn't be very Pokémon-productive for the average casual player, would it? It'd just frustrate them even more that a non-fodder Pokémon fainted.





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    Quote Originally Posted by a person View Post
    You're still evading the question.

    If there's nothing wrong with the strategy, why should it not be used?
    That shouldn't be your only option. You should be able to win without having to sacrifice a Pokemon.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Of course you're not, but that wouldn't be very Pokémon-productive for the average casual player, would it? It'd just frustrate them even more that a non-fodder Pokémon fainted.
    Then just lose a fodder Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    That shouldn't be your only option. You should be able to win without having to sacrifice a Pokemon.
    What, exactly, is wrong with letting a Pokemon faint? If that is what needs to be done, then do it.

    Or use Roggenrola, or use X Defend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    I don't see why not. It's a good strategy to keep key Pokemon healthy and in-play. So if you are about to face an opponent you know you're going to have trouble w/, why not sacrifice one for the team. In the end it's all about the W so whatever gets you there, no matter the difficulty
    I think some would have an issue with the morals of that. Personally I do my best to have none of my pokemon faint in a gym battle, even if it means SR a bunch of times.
    A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
    In the instant it vanishes, it shines faintly,
    Now, it creates a night with a full moon.



  14. #8239

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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    I think some would have an issue with the morals of that. Personally I do my best to have none of my pokemon faint in a gym battle, even if it means SR a bunch of times.
    I used to be like that. But my methods have changed. I consider the method to be 'lazy' personally, but that's how my overall play-style has developed in the BW games. I know this phrase has been floating around here a lot lately, but each to their own, as they say.

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    Am I the only one who had no trouble with Watchog?

    After playing through the games about 11 times, I've had it use Retaliate on the switch in once.

    Mostly, she just used Hypnosis...

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    I had some trouble with Watchog, but on other hand, I never had problems with Elesa's Emolga. That Gym was always a piece of cake, regardless of the team I was using.

  17. #8242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazios View Post
    Am I the only one who had no trouble with Watchog?

    After playing through the games about 11 times, I've had it use Retaliate on the switch in once.

    Mostly, she just used Hypnosis...
    I only had trouble w/ it once, which was my 1st time. Hypnosis was more annoying than Retaliate, imo.

  18. #8243
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    Anyone like my story? :P
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

    - TI, Ready For Whatever
    Paper Trail.

  19. #8244
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    As for the Death fodder argument, a lvl 16 Roggenrola takes about 46-56% damage from a lvl 20 Watchog's boosted Retaliate. Afterwards it does about 25%, which you can mitigate further with Harden. And if Roggenrola fails you can always use other pokemon to clean up.

    You're not forced to use Death fodder, so it's not an Isshu.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  20. #8245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    That shouldn't be your only option. You should be able to win without having to sacrifice a Pokemon.
    That's your belief. Doesn't make your way better than anyone else's.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

    - TI, Ready For Whatever
    Paper Trail.

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    How do you like Electirive, sorry for spelling but I'm in a rush lol.. I was considering him but wasn't sure how to get him. He has to hold an item, while trading right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    I used to be like that. But my methods have changed. I consider the method to be 'lazy' personally, but that's how my overall play-style has developed in the BW games. I know this phrase has been floating around here a lot lately, but each to their own, as they say.
    While I get what you're saying, I wouldn't call it lazy. Stubborn perhaps, wanting things to go a certain way. But in that regard, I only had to SR twice in Black and once so far in Black 2.
    A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
    In the instant it vanishes, it shines faintly,
    Now, it creates a night with a full moon.



  23. #8248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tujik View Post
    How do you like Electirive, sorry for spelling but I'm in a rush lol.. I was considering him but wasn't sure how to get him. He has to hold an item, while trading right?
    Yes, trade while having Electabuzz hold the Electirizer.
    Under Construction

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    That's your belief. Doesn't make your way better than anyone else's.
    He wasn't arguing that his way was "better" than anybody else's way, where did you get that from?

    The whole point of what I was saying was that the player should never be obligated to sacrifice a Pokémon based on the difficulty of the battle. Saying that the player merely just has to "use a fodder Pokémon, Roggenrola, or X Defend" in order to win the gym battle that is unfairly difficult for them, while not incorrect, shouldn't be the only resort or strategy that they can use.





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  25. #8250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    He wasn't arguing that his way was "better" than anybody else's way, where did you get that from?

    The whole point of what I was saying was that the player should never be obligated to sacrifice a Pokémon based on the difficulty of the battle. Saying that the player merely just has to "use a fodder Pokémon, Roggenrola, or X Defend" in order to win the gym battle that is unfairly difficult for them, while not incorrect, shouldn't be the only resort or strategy that they can use.
    The strategy is really based on the player. I they feel the difficulty of the gym deserves a certain tactic, then so be it. That's the beauty of Pokemon. There's tons of ways and strategies to battle w/ so if any of them seem fit to you, do what makes you feel comfortable or think will help you win.

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