Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

[PaddysTurtwigFanClub]

Some people would argue that the addition of just one Pokémon isn't enough. I'd rather have such a lower level of unpredictability be scattered throughout the entire gym, not just at the gym leader.

I can see where your coming from. One pokemon with a unexpected resistance can, in most cases be delt with, but if you fill a gym with loads of these, you have to rethink your entire strategy, because unless you are terribly overleveled there will be problems. So on a whole this becomes harder for the trainer.
Some could argue that flooding a gym with dual types to keep experienced gamers on their toes is just erasing the gyms 'type'.

[R_N]

I can see where your coming from. One pokemon with a unexpected resistance can, in most cases be delt with, but if you fill a gym with loads of these, you have to rethink your entire strategy, because unless you are terribly overleveled there will be problems. So on a whole this becomes harder for the trainer.

You have 6 Pokemon
There really isn't any difficulty when it comes to dual types. You're bound to have something that either hits them super effectively, can take hits not very effectively, or something that can just plain take neutral hits while dealing neutral hits.

Unless gym start implementing Battle ______ rules of 3 Pokemon, level 50, & no items or saving I don't see them ever becoming difficult to handle.

[Wishing Star]

I can see where your coming from. One pokemon with a unexpected resistance can, in most cases be delt with, but if you fill a gym with loads of these, you have to rethink your entire strategy, because unless you are terribly overleveled there will be problems. So on a whole this becomes harder for the trainer.
Some could argue that flooding a gym with dual types to keep experienced gamers on their toes is just erasing the gyms 'type'.

I'd say that the primary rule for gyms is to have a centralized theme more so than a centralized type. It just so happens that the type corresponds to the theme.

For example, I'd imagine Skyla's gym to be perfectly fine with Swoobat, Crobat, Skarmory, Emolga, and Honchkrow, as long as the theme of the gym (its interior and such) stayed central to the Flying type.

[Bolt the Cat]

On the subject of mixing up gym types i will voice my opinion : To make gyms a little less predictable all they have to do is throw in a unexpected dual type e.g. Skarmory with Skyla.
The striaton trio are not a great example to go by as they weren't overly powerful to begin with, and due to the fact you are given a pan-monkey superior to that of the leaders, it defeats the purpose. They don't need to go the extreme like with blue, but they could mix things up a little with movesets to make it more challenging.

Possibly, and they do this already, but it usually doesn't help much because you can still sweep through the rest with one Pokemon.

[Wishing Star]

Possibly, and they do this already, but it usually doesn't help much because you can still sweep through the rest with one Pokemon.

At this point, I'd say it's up to the player to give themselves a challenge by not using the same one Pokémon. There's only so much the game can be adjusted to account for being able to sweep with just one Pokémon, after all.

[Aurath8]

Possibly, and they do this already, but it usually doesn't help much because you can still sweep through the rest with one Pokemon.

There's just not enough members in a gym leader's team to be able to have 2 checks to every one of the type's wekanesses. At least if gym leader's are still bound by the 3 pokemon rule next gen which I sincerely hope not. I like to gather a full 6 pokemon team ASAP, otherwise using extra members if the pokemon comes late. Having 4 pokemon able to adequately take on a 3-pokemon team gets old by the last gym.

[Wishing Star]

There's just not enough members in a gym leader's team to be able to have 2 checks to every one of the type's wekanesses. At least if gym leader's are still bound by the 3 pokemon rule next gen which I sincerely hope not. I like to gather a full 6 pokemon team ASAP, otherwise using extra members if the pokemon comes late. Having 4 pokemon able to adequately take on a 3-pokemon team gets old by the last gym.

Your words having been said, I'd also appreciate it if the "three-Pokémon rule" were abolished in the future. Either that, or the Pokémon's levels could be, say, 4% higher or something than they are right now. The extra levels would be intended to make up for the fact that there wouldn't really be any room for checks and counters.

But then again, there's always Challenge Mode...

[Bolt the Cat]

There's just not enough members in a gym leader's team to be able to have 2 checks to every one of the type's wekanesses.

Well at the very least, they should counter some of the more popular ones. For instance, Skyla definitely should've had something to counter Electric types, they're more viable than Flying's other weaknesses, and there's plenty of them nearby in Chargestone Cave.

At least if gym leader's are still bound by the 3 pokemon rule next gen which I sincerely hope not. I like to gather a full 6 pokemon team ASAP, otherwise using extra members if the pokemon comes late. Having 4 pokemon able to adequately take on a 3-pokemon team gets old by the last gym.

Except that was never really a "rule" in the first place, that only happened this gen. Usually later gyms have 4 or 5 Pokemon. And they need to quit it with the whole "3 Pokemon for gym leaders, 4 Pokemon for Elite 4" formula they used this gen, it's unnecessary babying, especially now that the game has multiple difficulties now. They could've easily put the Normal mode rosters in Easy Mode and the Challenge Mode rosters in Normal Mode, that would've been more appropriate.

[Wishing Star]

And they need to quit it with the whole "3 Pokemon for gym leaders, 4 Pokemon for Elite 4" formula they used this gen, it's unnecessary babying...

Now that I think about it, I don't know why they only made each Elite Four member only have four Pokémon instead of the usual five. It really wasn't needed, in my opinion.

Yeah, maybe in Easy Mode, but difficulty changes are applied for a reason... :/

[Bolt the Cat]

Now that I think about it, I don't know why they only made each Elite Four member only have four Pokémon instead of the usual five. It really wasn't needed, in my opinion.

It was especially disappointing in BW2, where despite having twice as many options the rosters were almost completely identical to BW1, the Challenge Mode rosters were everything the Normal Mode rosters should've been.

[Wishing Star]

It was especially disappointing in BW2, where despite having twice as many options the rosters were almost completely identical to BW1, the Challenge Mode rosters were everything the Normal Mode rosters should've been.

I agree with you that at least if they kept the guideline of four Pokémon per Elite Four member, they could've vastly diversified their teams. Makes those who played BW feel sort of "cheated out" when fighting them in BW2, to say the least.

[Pokemonsean]

I think they should put a gym with mixed types like blue in hgss

[AmbipomMaster]

I don't like mixed gyms. I like gyms that specialize in one type. They give that Gym-like quality

[Bolt the Cat]

I don't like mixed gyms. I like gyms that specialize in one type. They give that Gym-like quality

This makes no sense. What about mono type gyms give it a "gym-like quality"?

I don't think there's anything wrong with mixed type gyms, in fact I'd like to see gyms with more complex themes that allow for more type diversity. For instance, you could have a ruins themed gym that uses Rock, Ground, Psychic, and Ghost types, a mountain themed gym that uses Rock, Ground, Steel, Fighting, and Ice types, etc.

[Wishing Star]

What I personally like about most gyms is their theme. Not so much their type, because not every gym leader specializes in one type. At least for the Striaton Gym, the puzzle really nailed the importance of type advantages, whereas for Blue's gym, the sliding tile puzzle is reminiscent of the ease to lose track of having to deal with so many types.

[Chaos Rush]

To people talking about disliking the 3-Pokemon rule (2 for the first two gyms): How do you think you would feel if you were only aloud to fight them with the same amount of Pokemon that they fight you with? Meaning, for most of the Gym Leaders, you would have to choose 3 Pokemon.

I myself have been doing that with every Pokemon game since Platinum, but it doesn't help the difficulty much. There's another problem: Game Freak seems to have trouble determining the proper levels a Gym Leader should be at. In B/W, it seemed like all of the Gym Leaders were underleveled. Here I was battling Iris and her Lv43 Haxorus while my Pokemon were all Lv46-ish. The leveling in B2/W2 is better, I actually had to grind for Drayden. But they still weren't of satisfactory difficulty, at least for me, especially the Elite 4. They were all the same level as me, and so it didn't feel like I was fighting the Elite 4, it just felt like I was fighting a regular trainer. I think it would be an interesting experiment if they just made a Lv50 level cap or something for all the Gyms.

[Bolt the Cat]

To people talking about disliking the 3-Pokemon rule (2 for the first two gyms): How do you think you would feel if you were only aloud to fight them with the same amount of Pokemon that they fight you with? Meaning, for most of the Gym Leaders, you would have to choose 3 Pokemon.

Maybe if it were optional, but that'd be a bad thing to force.

I myself have been doing that with every Pokemon game since Platinum, but it doesn't help the difficulty much. There's another problem: Game Freak seems to have trouble determining the proper levels a Gym Leader should be at. In B/W, it seemed like all of the Gym Leaders were underleveled. Here I was battling Iris and her Lv43 Haxorus while my Pokemon were all Lv46-ish. The leveling in B2/W2 is better, I actually had to grind for Drayden. But they still weren't of satisfactory difficulty, at least for me, especially the Elite 4. They were all the same level as me, and so it didn't feel like I was fighting the Elite 4, it just felt like I was fighting a regular trainer. I think it would be an interesting experiment if they just made a Lv50 level cap or something for all the Gyms.

I'd say the problem has more to do with the EXP system (which makes it harder to train higher level Pokemon) and the regional design (the gyms are way too close to together). IDK what the levels should be, but I certainly wouldn't do it the way they did.

[Aurath8]

To people talking about disliking the 3-Pokemon rule (2 for the first two gyms): How do you think you would feel if you were only aloud to fight them with the same amount of Pokemon that they fight you with? Meaning, for most of the Gym Leaders, you would have to choose 3 Pokemon.

I don't think that would help much because I tend to only use 3 pokemon at most for any gym leader. My team is large enough that I already have several pokemon that can adequately take on that type, so limiting me to those 3 only serves to increase tension slightly as I can't use the remaining 3 to tank hits while I heal up.

If gym leaders have larger teams then I need to manage my team more carefully and really use every turn because the 3ish pokemon that can take on this gym need to defeat more than one pokemon each. The most extreme example of this comes with monotype champions, namely Lance.
2 of my pokemon, Magmortar and Heracross, were completely useless because every member of his team resists Fire/is a Flying type. Exeggutor could subdue opponents with Sleep Powder and Leech Seed but is too frail to do much beyond Gyarados and Togekiss is a bulkier version of Exeggutor. This leaves Feraligatr and Golem to defeat his 5 other pokemon almost on their own and makes for a very difficult battle.

With each pokemon you add to the gym leader's team you increase the amount of measures a player has to take to support and preserve the pool of pokemon that can take on that particular type.

[Zecaomes]

I myself have been doing that with every Pokemon game since Platinum, but it doesn't help the difficulty much. There's another problem: Game Freak seems to have trouble determining the proper levels a Gym Leader should be at. In B/W, it seemed like all of the Gym Leaders were underleveled. Here I was battling Iris and her Lv43 Haxorus while my Pokemon were all Lv46-ish. The leveling in B2/W2 is better, I actually had to grind for Drayden. But they still weren't of satisfactory difficulty, at least for me, especially the Elite 4. They were all the same level as me, and so it didn't feel like I was fighting the Elite 4, it just felt like I was fighting a regular trainer. I think it would be an interesting experiment if they just made a Lv50 level cap or something for all the Gyms.

Well, you could try Challenge Mode. I haven't tried it yet, but it's certainly more difficult and, if you're looking for difficulty, it's the best mode you can go to.

[Chaos Rush]

Well, you could try Challenge Mode. I haven't tried it yet, but it's certainly more difficult and, if you're looking for difficulty, it's the best mode you can go to.

I'm not going to pay another $35 just to buy Black 2 and then speed-running it just so I could try Challenge Mode on my White 2 game.