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Thread: Expanded Pokedex Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

  1. #3951

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    They "Mystery Door"? IDK what you're talking about. I was thinking the Underground Ruins where you catch 3/4 of the Regis. IDK if that's what you mean, though.
    That is what I mean. The huge door that you go through and it has all the broken statues

  2. #3952
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    That is what I mean. The huge door that you go through and it has all the broken statues
    I figured that's what you meant. IDK where else Unown could go anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  3. #3953

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    I figured that's what you meant. IDK where else Unown could go anyway.
    Well they could have just thrown in another unknown cave. Cave of Being is another place that comes to mind since nothing else was there.

  4. #3954
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    Unova has a lot of potential for prior-gen Pokemon distribution, but they didn't put it to good use...

    But what I'm really disappointed is... there are no new set of starter giveaways.

    .: So, what's next? | Edit by me, do not steal. :.
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  5. #3955

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    Unova has a lot of potential for prior-gen Pokemon distribution, but they didn't put it to good use...

    But what I'm really disappointed is... there are no new set of starter giveaways.
    Are you talking about Wifi event release?

    It would be cool if there was an in-game release like in Yellow where you could get Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle barring certain qualifications.

  6. #3956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Well first of all, Unova is pretty smallish for a main series region. If they made the regions about the size of Hoenn and Sinnoh, they could comfortably fit in more Pokemon per game. Also, you're forgetting that BW1 added in Shaking Spots and Double Grass, which more than doubles the amount of Pokemon they can fit per area. At any rate, you guys are missing the point. It's not about trying to cram in as many Pokemon as possible into each game. It's about using the resources they have to fit a reasonable amount in. There's no excuse for not being able to fit in the missing several dozen Pokemon into BW2 when they're wasting wild Pokemon slots on repeats for Double Grass (making it a highly pointless mechanic), evolved forms for Shaking Spots (several of which probably shouldn't even be catchable), and Unova Dex Pokemon post game.
    The shaky grass is a mechanic to put a couple of different/rare Pokemon in that same location, but doesn't really count as a "different" habitat for me. I was referring to the blandness of stuffing Pokemon in grass patches and water bodies found on the standard numbered routes, as opposed to providing properly named locations such as mountains, lakes, sea caves, underwater seaweed, forests, and man-made locations such as factories, lighthouses etc. You know, something more interesting than grass alone, shaky or not shaky.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 16th November 2012 at 5:13 PM.
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  7. #3957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    But what I'm really disappointed is... there are no new set of starter giveaways.
    Yeah, they could've at least given us the Sinnoh starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    The shaky grass is a mechanic to put a couple of different/rare Pokemon in that same location, but doesn't really count as a "different" habitat for me. I was referring to the blandness of stuffing Pokemon in grass patches and water bodies found on the standard numbered routes, as opposed to providing properly named locations such as mountains, lakes, sea caves, underwater seaweed, forests, and man-made locations such as factories, lighthouses etc. You know, something more interesting than grass alone, shaky or not shaky.
    We don't really need it. The locations are pretty diverse enough to accommodate all of the Pokemon. Besides, there was plenty of diversity in this game. We got a factory, a sewer, a city park, a desert, desert ruins, an electrically charged cave, a burial tower, a volcano, an icy canyon, and a Victory Road made out of all sorts of different environments. What more could you possibly want?
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Yeah, they could've at least given us the Sinnoh starters.



    We don't really need it. The locations are pretty diverse enough to accommodate all of the Pokemon. Besides, there was plenty of diversity in this game. We got a factory, a sewer, a city park, a desert, desert ruins, an electrically charged cave, a burial tower, a volcano, an icy canyon, and a Victory Road made out of all sorts of different environments. What more could you possibly want?
    Isn't that about as many locations as Gen III/IV, except we're fitting much more Pokemon? Well, that's just the impression I get with each passing generation anyway. More new Pokemon, but more or less the same geographical size.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
    Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

  9. #3959
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    i dont thank GF or Pokemon for giving us thr 493 for this game. this is what it should of been in the first place. its like they realised what a bad choice it was in BW, so its, for me, the BW we should of got originally. dont get me wrong, im really happy with this idea though.

  10. #3960
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Isn't that about as many locations as Gen III/IV, except we're fitting much more Pokemon? Well, that's just the impression I get with each passing generation anyway. More new Pokemon, but more or less the same geographical size.
    In terms of region size, I definitely agree with you. Unova is too small for its own good. But in terms of number of Pokemon available, I think it's fine. Unova as is is easily capable of fitting more than half of the National Dex by itself. With Double Grass and Shaking Spots allowing areas to hold more than double the amount of Pokemon, I don't think we'll have as much of a problem with this for a while, probably not for a few generations when the National Dex passes 1000 or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Eevee View Post
    i dont thank GF or Pokemon for giving us thr 493 for this game. this is what it should of been in the first place. its like they realised what a bad choice it was in BW, so its, for me, the BW we should of got originally. dont get me wrong, im really happy with this idea though.
    I don't get what you're saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  11. #3961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    In terms of region size, I definitely agree with you. Unova is too small for its own good. But in terms of number of Pokemon available, I think it's fine. Unova as is is easily capable of fitting more than half of the National Dex by itself. With Double Grass and Shaking Spots allowing areas to hold more than double the amount of Pokemon, I don't think we'll have as much of a problem with this for a while, probably not for a few generations when the National Dex passes 1000 or so.
    Personally, I liked the size of Unova but yes, they missed a lot of opportunity.

    I prefer the smaller maps w/ easy navigation so I can bounce around more easily trying to complete certain tasks I want to do. Especially when filling the dex. I know where everything is and it has a good location.

    It makes the task of catching and doing everything more... precise per se.

  12. #3962
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    Does the shaking grass make a difference to capacity? It's useful when I wanted to specifically look for say, Audino to get some fast XP, but otherwise a grass patch with 6 Pokemon species, compared to a grass patch with 5 species in normal grass and 1 in shaking grass is still the same 6 species in the same location to me. I would think that swarm Pokemon makes better sense as a game mechanic since they mimic what migratory species do, so the list can easily be expanded by shifting many bug/flying type to that category.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
    Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

  13. #3963

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Does the shaking grass make a difference to capacity? It's useful when I wanted to specifically look for say, Audino to get some fast XP, but otherwise a grass patch with 6 Pokemon species, compared to a grass patch with 5 species in normal grass and 1 in shaking grass is still the same 6 species in the same location to me. I would think that swarm Pokemon makes better sense as a game mechanic since they mimic what migratory species do, so the list can easily be expanded by shifting many bug/flying type to that category.
    Well shaking grass generally holds rarer Pokemon or Pokemon they wish to have lower encounter rates. I know normal grass holds lower encounter rate Pokemon as well, but the shaking grass ones tend to be rarer

  14. #3964
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    Well shaking grass generally holds rarer Pokemon or Pokemon they wish to have lower encounter rates. I know normal grass holds lower encounter rate Pokemon as well, but the shaking grass ones tend to be rarer
    Exactly, it's more of a modification to the old formula of just dumping all the Pokemon in the grass with different encounter rates, than an actual increased capacity to hold Pokemon per se. Which is why I'm not surprised when some of the shaking grass holds (aside from the standard Audino and elemental monkeys) the evolved form of a Pokemon species in that area, it works like how you tend to find evolved forms at lower rates (Dugtrio in Diglett Cave etc.) with a slight twist.

    The game mechanic is termed as 'Phenomenon" in Bulbapedia, though I think that it has benefited item finding (random item generation!) more than Pokemon finding.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 16th November 2012 at 9:35 PM.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
    Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

  15. #3965

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Exactly, it's more of a modification to the old formula of just dumping all the Pokemon in the grass with different encounter rates, than an actual increased capacity to hold Pokemon per se. Which is why I'm not surprised when some of the shaking grass holds (aside from the standard Audino and elemental monkeys) the evolved form of a Pokemon species in that area, it works like how you tend to find evolved forms at lower rates (Dugtrio in Diglett Cave etc.) with a slight twist.
    Well I also think it adds a more realistic feel to it as well because I imagine not all unevolved forms of a Pokemon will be lingering around. There has to be some evolved ones in the area.

  16. #3966
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    I prefer the smaller maps w/ easy navigation so I can bounce around more easily trying to complete certain tasks I want to do. Especially when filling the dex. I know where everything is and it has a good location.

    It makes the task of catching and doing everything more... precise per se.
    They usually aren't that hard to navigate, it's just that there's lots of optional areas. Which is how it should be anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Does the shaking grass make a difference to capacity? It's useful when I wanted to specifically look for say, Audino to get some fast XP, but otherwise a grass patch with 6 Pokemon species, compared to a grass patch with 5 species in normal grass and 1 in shaking grass is still the same 6 species in the same location to me. I would think that swarm Pokemon makes better sense as a game mechanic since they mimic what migratory species do, so the list can easily be expanded by shifting many bug/flying type to that category.
    It does, in fact. It gives you the potential for 12 species instead of 6. Now does that mean they always have to have 12 different species of Pokemon? No, but if they want to fit in a particularly rare Pokemon and are out of space for it, that's the perfect way. Double Grass can do the same thing as well, especially if the Double Grass is inaccessible on your first visit.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  17. #3967

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    It does, in fact. It gives you the potential for 12 species instead of 6. Now does that mean they always have to have 12 different species of Pokemon? No, but if they want to fit in a particularly rare Pokemon and are out of space for it, that's the perfect way. Double Grass can do the same thing as well, especially if the Double Grass is inaccessible on your first visit.
    I still don't get why they didn't make the regular grass Pokemon a higher Lv. than the double grass and boost double grass encounters to 100%. That would have made more sense to me. But then again in areas like the Giant Chasm in BW1, it was a good training area to have 2 high leveled Pokemon to fight @ once

  18. #3968
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAv1Or) View Post
    I still don't get why they didn't make the regular grass Pokemon a higher Lv. than the double grass and boost double grass encounters to 100%. That would have made more sense to me. But then again in areas like the Giant Chasm in BW1, it was a good training area to have 2 high leveled Pokemon to fight @ once
    One of the points in having Double Grass is that it allows you to catch higher leveled Pokemon than normal (and sometimes evolved forms). It's especially useful in cases where you explore a new part of the area later on in the game (for instance, on Rt. 20 where the eastern half of the route is closed off until you beat Cheren). Making Double Grass Pokemon lower level defeats the purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  19. #3969

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    One of the points in having Double Grass is that it allows you to catch higher leveled Pokemon than normal (and sometimes evolved forms). It's especially useful in cases where you explore a new part of the area later on in the game (for instance, on Rt. 20 where the eastern half of the route is closed off until you beat Cheren). Making Double Grass Pokemon lower level defeats the purpose.
    I guess.

    I didn't consider much of what you stated in my thought process. But it makes more sense now.

  20. #3970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    They usually aren't that hard to navigate, it's just that there's lots of optional areas. Which is how it should be anyway.



    It does, in fact. It gives you the potential for 12 species instead of 6. Now does that mean they always have to have 12 different species of Pokemon? No, but if they want to fit in a particularly rare Pokemon and are out of space for it, that's the perfect way. Double Grass can do the same thing as well, especially if the Double Grass is inaccessible on your first visit.
    Uh, I don't think programming wise there's any upper limit as to how many different Pokemon you can meet in normal grass. Why would they go out of space?

    My opinion of the shaking grass, as well as what I think Game Freak's intention of implementing it, is that it's just a method for people to meet the evolved form of a certain Pokemon family in a more precise manner. I looked at Bulbapedia's listing for each route, occasionally they hold Pokemon from a different family altogether, but most of the time it's just the evolved forms of Pokemon you can already meet in that spot.

    So using your example, it might be rather crude to fit 6 Pokemon families each having two stages for a total of 12 Pokemon, all in normal grass with varying encounter rate, and lowering the rate for evolved form. In fact, past games rarely allow players to meet evolved forms in the wild anyway. The shaking grass therefore holds the evolved form while the normal ones hold the pre-evolved form, aso players can meet either one with ease.

    I don't think GF ever sees shaking grass as a whole new different habitat. It doesn't make sense either, since they are essentially located in the same place.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 17th November 2012 at 6:30 AM.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
    Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

  21. #3971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    My opinion of the shaking grass, as well as what I think Game Freak's intention of implementing it, is that it's just a method for people to meet the evolved form of a certain Pokemon family in a more precise manner. I looked at Bulbapedia's listing for each route, occasionally they hold Pokemon from a different family altogether, but most of the time it's just the evolved forms of Pokemon you can already meet in that spot.
    That kind of approach makes Shaking Spots pointless, since you're not really getting anything new or unique out of them. And besides, you also have Double Grass for evolved forms, so they can put some of those evolved forms in that list as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    I don't think GF ever sees shaking grass as a whole new different habitat. It doesn't make sense either, since they are essentially located in the same place.
    It's not. It's a way to allocate more Pokemon in the same area. Say you had 8 Pokemon you want to put in the area. Usually more than 6 is pushing it, so a better solution would be to take the 2 rarest ones and put them in the Shaking Spot list.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  22. #3972
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    Find me a post game route in Unova that actually holds much more Pokemon families compared to any late game route in Hoenn then?

    And you know, even if the shaking spots hold exclusive Pokemon families, the rationale behind it wouldn't have been "a spot to meet rarer Pokemon" either. If anything, the spots would make those Pokemon easier to meet, not rarer since you're excluding the chance of meeting other Pokemon. Meeting Tauros/Scyther in Safari Zone is a rare event. Meeting Dugtrio in Diglett Cave is a rare event. Having those in some sort of shaking grass/dust clouds, if they had implemented phenomenon back then, would be easy.

    Which comes to my original point that if the game wishes to hold more Pokemon in a more realistic ecological system, it should have more specific locations for them. Forests for bug/birds/grass types, named lakes and rivers for certain local water species of a particular city, a well-known mountain holding certain types etc. The safari zone itself is a good location that but we don't have one in Gen V. Why limit such geographical locations to one or two in each game?
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 17th November 2012 at 7:49 AM.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
    Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

  23. #3973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    And you know, even if the shaking spots holds exclusive Pokemon families, the rationale behind it wouldn't have been "a spot to meet rarer Pokemon" either. If anything, the spots would make those Pokemon easier to meet, not rarer since you're excluding the chance of meeting other Pokemon. Meeting Tauros/Scyther in Safari Zone is a rare event. Meeting Dugtrio in Diglett Cave is a rare event. Having those in some sort of shaking grass/dust clouds, if they had implemented phenomenon back then, would be easy.
    Not really. Because even if you're not sifting through the same amount of common Pokemon to get to it, you're still spending the same amount of time just trying to get a Shaking spot to appear, so it balances out that way. Also, there's still the possibility that you could get jumped before you make it to the Shaking Spot, especially if you have to walk a long way to get there. Caves are even worse, since there's no way to generate them without getting jumped by the regular cave Pokemon unless you're using Repels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Which comes to my original point that if the game wishes to hold more Pokemon in a more realistic ecological system, it should have more specific locations for them. Forests for bug/birds/grass types, named lakes and rivers for certain local water species of a particular city, a well-known mountain holding certain types etc. The safari zone itself is a good location that but we don't have one in Gen V. Why limit such geographical locations to one or two in each game?
    I doubt they'll get too specific, that would limit the amount of Pokemon that would fit the area. Fact of the matter is, they can't put every environmental trope in every game. There's never going to be enough variety for that. More variety is always welcome, but it's not necessary when most Pokemon can fit into more commonly seen environments.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  24. #3974
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    I'm pretty sure the shaking spots has cut down my time spent on looking for certain Pokemon significantly. Even when I don't use repels, most of the grass patches are designed to be rectangular with a clear path next to it so that players can dive straight into the shaking spots within 2-3 squares. It's a very useful feature if you want to catch that one evolved Pokemon which would otherwise be cumbersome to obtain (Politoed, Milotic etc), or as a training spot with Audino. But it has never occurred to me that the spots are expansion to the capacity of a location simply because it usually doesn't hold exclusive families, nor do I think an exclusive family found in such spots are 'rarer'.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 17th November 2012 at 9:27 AM.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
    Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

  25. #3975

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    If i was in charge of the expanded pokedex

    instead of / I would have

    Dusparace / Pichu
    Bronzor / Pikachu
    Bronzong / Raichu
    Swablu / Ponyta
    Altaria / Rapidash
    Corsola / Kangaskan
    Shuckle / Miltank
    Driflum / Hoothoot
    Driblum / Noctowl
    Baltoy / Girafarage
    Claydol Nosepass / Poocheyna
    Probelass / Mightheyna
    Castform / Wrumple
    Budew / Silcoon
    Roselia / Cascoon
    Roserade / Beatifly
    Corphish / Dustox
    Crawdraunt / Shinx
    Magnemite / Luxio
    Magneton / Luxray
    Magnezone / Meowth
    Cleffa / Persian
    Clefairy / Krabby
    Clefable / Kingler
    Igglybuff / Rhyhorn
    Jigglypuff / Rhydon
    Wigglytuff / Rhyperior
    Grimer / Phanpy
    Muk / Donphan
    Seel / Hippotas
    Dewgong / Hippodown


    It wouldve made more sense in my oppion eg, people in unova cn easily get milk aka miltank
    Last edited by charmanderandswampertguy; 17th November 2012 at 2:45 PM.

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