Or virtually every physical pokemon in the game+ice punch via move tutor, that's what I did.
Honestly, I think the dex had the perfect mix across the board. People argue there aren't enough types at a specific point in time, but what exactly are you expecting them to do to solve that? The ONLY way would be more routes, or shove 50 pokemon in one, and neither would be very fun for a completionist. I had enough difficulty doing the same, check 80 rustling grasses to find a common pokemon thing for one game.
People shouldn't be forced to use things like move tutors, move deleters, and such. I'm not saying that encouraging players to use them is bad game design, but encouraging players to use them while simultaneously doing something to fix the various wild Pokémon type scarcities (wherever they may be) is entirely possible.
About adding more routes, I think that's bad region design on their part. Yeah, they were limited with what BW gave, but either they should've have designed the region that way for BW in the first place, or they still could've added one or two more Pokémon in each route to spice things up a bit more.
or you could just throw good neutral Pokemon at them, possibly with SE moves via TM or tutor
nah
It's an example. The point is you shouldn't have limited options for a particular type, especially if said type is useful at that point in the game.
Originally Posted by Wishing Star
There's Marill for Water-type Pokémon, too
I knew I was forgetting one.
Originally Posted by Wishing Star
Is there a place to reliably catch Dragon-type Pokémon before Drayden's gym? There's Flygon and Axew, but players may miss both of these because they're either rare (Trapinch) or they're in an optional area (both of them). Of course, there's always Vaporeon and Ice Beam...
Your only options for Dragon types are catching Trapinch in either Desert Resort or the outside of Reversal Mountain (I think it's more common in Reversal Mountain, plus it's close to evolving then), Vibrava in the outside of Reversal Mountain, Axew in Mistralton Cave, and Swablu in Rt. 14. That's pretty much it.
Originally Posted by -Raiga-
Honestly, I think the dex had the perfect mix across the board. People argue there aren't enough types at a specific point in time, but what exactly are you expecting them to do to solve that? The ONLY way would be more routes, or shove 50 pokemon in one, and neither would be very fun for a completionist. I had enough difficulty doing the same, check 80 rustling grasses to find a common pokemon thing for one game.
More Pokemon per area. Also spamming less of the same Pokemon in each area. A good example would be how Rt. 5 and Rt. 16 have exactly the same amount of Pokemon, there's plenty of space on that route for unique Pokemon. There's also Double Grass and Shaking Spots, which Game Freak seems to have found no good use for outside of making evolutions available (many of which are completely stupid and shouldn't be catchable). I worked out a way to make it work, if I find it I'll try and repost it. They actually can make it work, they just need to be clever about it.
Originally Posted by bel9
It is not a new form of Mewtwo. Majin Buu just ate Mew.
Your only options for Dragon types are catching Trapinch in either Desert Resort or the outside of Reversal Mountain (I think it's more common in Reversal Mountain, plus it's close to evolving then), Vibrava in the outside of Reversal Mountain, Axew in Mistralton Cave, and Swablu in Rt. 14. That's pretty much it.
Right, I forgot about Swablu on Route 14.
It doesn't really help that there still aren't that many Water-types by that point in the game that you can use for an Ice-type move. :/
It doesn't really help that there still aren't that many Water-types by that point in the game that you can use for an Ice-type move. :/
Not true, actually, pretty much every Water Pokemon you catch in Undella Bay can learn an Ice type attack. Too bad you can't get Ice Beam before Drayden, your only options at that point are Blizzard (which is more powerful but less reliable) and Icy Wind (which probably won't be powerful enough for Drayden). If you want to use Ice Punch, you'd need to catch something like Floatzel or Azumarill.
Originally Posted by bel9
It is not a new form of Mewtwo. Majin Buu just ate Mew.
Not true, actually, pretty much every Water Pokemon you catch in Undella Bay can learn an Ice type attack. Too bad you can't get Ice Beam before Drayden, your only options at that point are Blizzard (which is more powerful but less reliable) and Icy Wind (which probably won't be powerful enough for Drayden). If you want to use Ice Punch, you'd need to catch something like Floatzel or Azumarill.
Is it really that feasible to get a Water-type that late in the game just for Drayden, though? :/
I guess if game design limitations made it so that the player had no other choice, but that's clearly not the case.
Is it really that feasible to get a Water-type that late in the game just for Drayden, though? :/
I guess if game design limitations made it so that the player had no other choice, but that's clearly not the case.
Well most people would rather use a Dragon type or Lapras, but it's certainly an option if you don't like what they gave you. I do think Ice types should've been slightly more accessible at that point in the game, though.
Originally Posted by bel9
It is not a new form of Mewtwo. Majin Buu just ate Mew.
Well most people would rather use a Dragon type or Lapras, but it's certainly an option if you don't like what they gave you. I do think Ice types should've been slightly more accessible at that point in the game, though.
I'd rather use a Lapras. :P
I agree with the better distribution of Ice-type Pokémon, though.
The Ice type distribution really was terrible in this game. Literally almost all of them were in Giant Chasm.
They definitely could've introduced at least one or two near Twist Mountain. I think there's Cubchoo too somewhere, but that's pretty much only if you're playing in one specific quarter of the year. :/
They definitely could've introduced at least one or two near Twist Mountain. I think there's Cubchoo too somewhere, but that's pretty much only if you're playing in one specific quarter of the year. :/
Cubchoo, Spheal, and Lapras are the only Ice types available before Giant Chasm, but Cubchoo and Spheal are Winter only, making them a lot less feasible.
Originally Posted by bel9
It is not a new form of Mewtwo. Majin Buu just ate Mew.
Cubchoo, Spheal, and Lapras are the only Ice types available before Giant Chasm, but Cubchoo and Spheal are Winter only, making them a lot less feasible.
Yeah, it's the winter-only aspect that makes Spheal and Cubchoo practically not count in terms of available Pokémon. Lapras, too, with its obscenely low encounter rate. I played through Black 2 and White 2 several times without knowing that Lapras could be caught at Village Bridge.
Lapras, too, with its obscenely low encounter rate. I played through Black 2 and White 2 several times without knowing that Lapras could be caught at Village Bridge.
Lapras was there in BW1 too. It's just really hard to find because it's rare within the Surfing Spot bracket.
Originally Posted by bel9
It is not a new form of Mewtwo. Majin Buu just ate Mew.
All right, I worked through some examples of what I'd do to the distribution in this game. I haven't nailed it down to an exact science yet, but this is in general what I'd do:
-Limit each roster down to no more than 7-8, and even then, only use 8 for post game and 7 for areas which could hold lots of Pokemon.
-When choosing between Pokemon to place in the area, go for ones that are less common (to prevent spamming) and more fitting for the area.
-If the level range is near a Pokemon's evolution level, feel free to add the unevolved Pokemon to the Standard Grass and the evolved Pokemon to the Double Grass.
-Take into account the level design when deciding on Double Grass roster. Sometimes Double Grass may only be found in a particular environment or after a certain point.
-Pokemon with more obscure evolutions (like trade evolutions or move based evolutions) can be placed in Shaking Spots, as well as extremely rare Pokemon.
-Never make Pokemon that evolve by evolution stones (because they stop learning moves and would be less useful to the player, however Pokemon like Ninetales and Gallade which still do have fully developed movesets are fine) or happiness (it defeats the purpose of that mechanic if you can just catch the Pokemon) catchable.
-Also never make fully evolved pseudo legends catchable
-Take advantage of all of the space that you can, including multiple floors and areas.
Now again, these are examples, there's a lot more I would've done, but to keep it short I only listed a few:
Spoiler:- Distribution Examples:
Pledge Grove (grass would be added here to give the player some more early game options):
Standard Grass
Pidove- 30%
Sunkern- 25%
Sewaddle- 25%
Timburr- 20%
Challenger's Cave (accessible by going west on Rt. 10 and going down and in through a new entrance. The old entrance would be open, but blocked by a one way ledge or Strength boulder)
All right, I worked through some examples of what I'd do to the distribution in this game. I haven't nailed it down to an exact science yet, but this is in general what I'd do:
-Limit each roster down to no more than 7-8, and even then, only use 8 for post game and 7 for areas which could hold lots of Pokemon.
-When choosing between Pokemon to place in the area, go for ones that are less common (to prevent spamming) and more fitting for the area.
-If the level range is near a Pokemon's evolution level, feel free to add the unevolved Pokemon to the Standard Grass and the evolved Pokemon to the Double Grass.
-Take into account the level design when deciding on Double Grass roster. Sometimes Double Grass may only be found in a particular environment or after a certain point.
-Pokemon with more obscure evolutions (like trade evolutions or move based evolutions) can be placed in Shaking Spots, as well as extremely rare Pokemon.
-Never make Pokemon that evolve by evolution stones (because they stop learning moves and would be less useful to the player, however Pokemon like Ninetales and Gallade which still do have fully developed movesets are fine) or happiness (it defeats the purpose of that mechanic if you can just catch the Pokemon) catchable.
-Also never make fully evolved pseudo legends catchable
-Take advantage of all of the space that you can, including multiple floors and areas.
Now again, these are examples, there's a lot more I would've done, but to keep it short I only listed a few:
Spoiler:- Distribution Examples:
Pledge Grove (grass would be added here to give the player some more early game options):
Standard Grass
Pidove- 30%
Sunkern- 25%
Sewaddle- 25%
Timburr- 20%
Challenger's Cave (accessible by going west on Rt. 10 and going down and in through a new entrance. The old entrance would be open, but blocked by a one way ledge or Strength boulder)
I have to say that none of your efforts were for naught. Better wild Pokémon distribution like this would definitely discourage players from skipping grass as if it didn't exist as well as give plenty more options to players for more customizable, easier or more challenging gameplay. Wow!
I have to disagree with some of the Pokémon placement in some areas (namely Slakoth in doubles grass), but that's a really, really nice Pokémon distribution list. Overall, though, amazing job! (:
Something I noticed about the Expanded Pokedex has irked me.
At BW1, Eastern Unova had non-Unova Pokemon as a post-game bonus. It was explained that they were Pokemon that escaped the PokeTransfer Lab.
When B2W2, it was implied that the introduced species learned to thrive in Unova and coexist with Unova-native Pokemon. However, in the beginning of the game, Bianca is talking to Prof. Juniper and mentions that they did not know these Pokemon have been living in Unova all along. Were the Junipers that dense to not realize Pokemon such as Roselia, Dunsparce, and Trapinch existed in Unova the entire time? And why werent Hilda/Hilbert able to access them if that was the case? This incontinuity has been driving me nuts!!!
- National Pokedex Completion Date- 3/12/13 (Thanks EpiK SauCe!)
Spoiler:- In preparation of Pokemon X:
Something I noticed about the Expanded Pokedex has irked me.
At BW1, Eastern Unova had non-Unova Pokemon as a post-game bonus. It was explained that they were Pokemon that escaped the PokeTransfer Lab.
When B2W2, it was implied that the introduced species learned to thrive in Unova and coexist with Unova-native Pokemon. However, in the beginning of the game, Bianca is talking to Prof. Juniper and mentions that they did not know these Pokemon have been living in Unova all along. Were the Junipers that dense to not realize Pokemon such as Roselia, Dunsparce, and Trapinch existed in Unova the entire time? And why werent Hilda/Hilbert able to access them if that was the case? This incontinuity has been driving me nuts!!!
Well, simply take the BW post-game as non-canon and everything seems to fit better.
"Hey! I was looking forward to seeing you! My rival should be strong to keep me sharp." Your rival would like to battle!
Something I noticed about the Expanded Pokedex has irked me.
At BW1, Eastern Unova had non-Unova Pokemon as a post-game bonus. It was explained that they were Pokemon that escaped the PokeTransfer Lab.
When B2W2, it was implied that the introduced species learned to thrive in Unova and coexist with Unova-native Pokemon. However, in the beginning of the game, Bianca is talking to Prof. Juniper and mentions that they did not know these Pokemon have been living in Unova all along. Were the Junipers that dense to not realize Pokemon such as Roselia, Dunsparce, and Trapinch existed in Unova the entire time? And why werent Hilda/Hilbert able to access them if that was the case? This incontinuity has been driving me nuts!!!
It's probably not so much "we didn't know these Pokemon were in Unova", but more like "we didn't know where they'd spread and where their habitats are now". So they knew that these Pokemon had begun living in Unova but they didn't know where.
Originally Posted by bel9
It is not a new form of Mewtwo. Majin Buu just ate Mew.
It's probably not so much "we didn't know these Pokemon were in Unova", but more like "we didn't know where they'd spread and where their habitats are now". So they knew that these Pokemon had begun living in Unova but they didn't know where.
In fact, a sort of "interlude" could be made so that the player could collect Pokédex entries on Pokémon whose habitats were not yet known by the Unova research team at the time.
But wait, if they had just "begun" living in Unova but didn't know where at that time, wouldn't that mean that there had to have been some sort of event besides the PokéTransfer Factory incident that made a massive influx of Pokémon enter the region?
Originally Posted by -Raiga-
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National Pokedex Completion Date- 3/12/13 (Thanks EpiK SauCe!)
