Community POTW #68

[philzone]

Unfortunately, hp fire is an uncommon thing:hard to get right
Shiftry is never seen in ou tier. More like ru tier.
Try chansy/blissley vs shiftry sp, and watch it fall. Shuckle counters with sandstorm,toxic and swagger.
What about skarmory and mantine. Skarmory walls shiftry, bar hp fire :-( mantine is a special wall, countering with rain dance, ice beam or a flyingtype move

[jesusfreak94]

Unfortunately, hp fire is an uncommon thing:hard to get right

Not really. On PO and PS!, where most competitive battlers play, HP Fire is just a few clicks away.

Shiftry is never seen in ou tier. More like ru tier.

According to the last usage stats, Shiftry was used on almost .4% of OU teams. It may not sound like much, but it's still more than its usage in all other tiers besides NU.

[Kraleck]

Unfortunately, hp fire is an uncommon thing:hard to get right
Shiftry is never seen in ou tier. More like ru tier.
Try chansy/blissley vs shiftry sp, and watch it fall. Shuckle counters with sandstorm,toxic and swagger.
What about skarmory and mantine. Skarmory walls shiftry, bar hp fire :-( mantine is a special wall, countering with rain dance, ice beam or a flyingtype move

Getting a proper Hidden Power Type and Power is no problem if you have lots of time and very little sanity. Seriously. I've done it before on a whim for my Gastrodon - took 3 weeks' time. Total. Not on-and-off-for-3-weeks, I mean a grand total of 504 hours! I'm still working on Hidden Powers for a wide variety of Pokemon, just for the right Types alone...

Gets easier with PO and PS! like jesusfreak94 said because you can just set and forget instead of jumping through so many breeding hoops to nail the perfect Hidden Power, Nature, Ability, and more...

[Ishnura]

Special delivery from 4th gen!

Modest nature
Item: Choice specs
EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Moves:
Leaf Storm/Energy Ball
Dark Pulse
Extrasensory
Air Cutter/Silver Wind/Toxic

Shiftry straight from D/Pea/Pla/HG/SS can do some things when dealt with correctly after that semi-annoying mini game to get it to Black and White. Leaf Storm should be seldom used if you don't want to lose Sp. Attack, but can pack a rather big punch, while Energy Ball can lower the opponents Sp. Defense, but doesn't pack as big a punch as Leaf Storm. Dark Pulse, learned through TM 79 in 4th gen, is the best special dark type move for Shiftry, but Speed would make the Flinching thing not as useful. Extrasensory is the same deal as Dark Pulse, and has a lot of PP for an 80 power psychic type attack that covers Poison types. Air Cutter, learned through paying up 48 BP in HG/SS and through shard exchange in Platinum, covers bug types and is the most referred since Shiftry is pretty weak to bug types, while Silver Wind, learned through TM 62, isn't very reliable, but can raise all of Shiftry's stats by 1 stage, and Toxic is just there if you don't want either of the other 2 options. Choice Specs raise Shiftry's Sp. Attack by enough to equal the power of Shiftry's Physical Attack.

This deserves mention, right? right?

[Ilan]

Getting a proper Hidden Power Type and Power is no problem if you have lots of time and very little sanity. Seriously. I've done it before on a whim for my Gastrodon - took 3 weeks' time. Total. Not on-and-off-for-3-weeks, I mean a grand total of 504 hours! I'm still working on Hidden Powers for a wide variety of Pokemon, just for the right Types alone...

Gets easier with PO and PS! like jesusfreak94 said because you can just set and forget instead of jumping through so many breeding hoops to nail the perfect Hidden Power, Nature, Ability, and more...

Next time use RNG it will cut the time in 99%.
you only need to find the root and you can get perfect IV/nature/HP/abillity in less than 5 minutes.

But yeah in PO use HP fire it is great in the sun 105 BP.

Edit: actually started using shiftry cause I noticed I ignored him I found out smogon have a tab for EVERY tier it is actually pretty uncommon for NU pokemons.

I use the following set:

Shiftry (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 172 Atk / 84 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Growth
- Low Kick
- Leaf Storm
- Sucker Punch

I have a huge problem switching him in I always have to use him as a revenge killer but for that it does nicely.

I find myself using Leaf Storm a lot it is great to finishing off foes it have a really good damage .
Sucker punch help me beat lots of psychic types and some other stuff too but I think I will put HP fire because I find myself against scozor too many times.
Low kick proved itself usefull it hit lots of stuff for lots of damage especially tyranitar and heatran.
Growth is rarely used, but when it is used I have a powerful Pokemon.

I use him as a core and he have the following support: wish from chansey,drougth from ninetales and for synergy I added donphan and volcarona (the last slot is skarmory because it is useful).

I didn't take the set from smogon I randomized the EVs.

[philzone]

Anyway, i would still use focus blast, as it smacks straight into heatran,and hp fire won't work against it. Basically it depends on what you go for-hp for skarmory and focus blast for heatran. Also, you are ruined if your foe changes the weather. Hp fire then is a base 70 move. Not good as it is common to see rain and sandstorm more often.

[MetalCrow]

Anyway, i would still use focus blast, as it smacks straight into heatran,and hp fire won't work against it. Basically it depends on what you go for-hp for skarmory and focus blast for heatran. Also, you are ruined if your foe changes the weather. Hp fire then is a base 70 move. Not good as it is common to see rain and sandstorm more often.

I hope you realize that the majority of Heatran are specially defensive or fully offensive...also, heatran has identical defense and special defense, so it takes hits well on both sides...use low kick or brick break if you really need that fighting type attack for heatran...or nature power for earthquake over wifi for that precious 4x damage against said heatran...

[Kraleck]

Next time use RNG it will cut the time in 99%.
you only need to find the root and you can get perfect IV/nature/HP/abillity in less than 5 minutes.

Never liked to exploit the RNG in any game. Feels too much like a cheat to me. I like the true randomness.

That said, Hidden Power is more of a Type-filler Move. Not "Filler" as in an extra Moveslot, but to "fill in" any gaps in your coverage. With the Dark-Fighting combo and Grass-Dark STAB, Toxicroak and Heracross are the only Pokemon to resist all 3 of those Types. Hidden Power (Psychic) is inferior to Extrasensory, (Fire) gets nerfed by Rain and Rock Types in a Sandstorm, and (Flying) has better options instead of it. While HP (Fire) is great for a Chlorophyll/Leaf Guard/Solar Power Ability Pokemon, the fact that weather can suddenly change quickly denies it enough usage, in my mind.

In fact, Extrasensory is a decent Special Move for Shiftry. Combined with a Chlorophyll boost, you can potentially Flinch opponents while sweeping. I've found Psychic Type Moves to synergize quite well with Fighting and either Dark or Ghost Type Moves.

[Ilan]

I am still trying some chlorophyll pokemons except the obvious venusaur which I tried I found out sawsbuck is a great chlorophyll abuser more than the shiftry I used it have slightly better bulk and more powerful moves in Stab return and he is the fastest chlorophyll user! which means he is not so slow even outside the sun and he have also decent attack. which means
if you wanna use shiftry you need to use it differently than sawsbuck
they also have the same weaknesses but sawsbuck isn't double weak to bug.




After a day of using shiftry I never felt like sweeping it always felt like I kill one then die it can't survive like others sadly...

also both check none agility terrakion

[menametlg]

Special Sweeper
Chlorophyll
@ Choice Specs
Modest [ 252 SpAtk / 40 HP / 216 Spd ]
- Solarbeam
- Dark Pulse
- HP [ Fire ]
- Focus Blast

Solarbeam and Dark Pulse as STAB. HP [ Fire ] kills Bug, Grass and Steel type. Focus Blast also kill Steel Type.

Partner
Ninetales

Countering
Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave users.

Evo Corner

Seedot
Chlorophyll
@Eviolite
Impish / Careful [ 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpDef ]

- Toxic
- Leech Seed
- Power Swap / Substitute / Amnesia
- Seed Bomb / Bullet Seed

Toxic + Leech Seed = Combo! Power Swap ruins attackers. Substitute for SubSeed. Amnesia boost SpDef that you're lacking. Seed bomb as offensive move while Bullet Seed for Sub Breaker.

[Voice Of The Forest]

Why not just run a mixed shiftry with growth hp fire nature power and seed bomb

[philzone]

I hope you realize that the majority of Heatran are specially defensive or fully offensive...also, heatran has identical defense and special defense, so it takes hits well on both sides...use low kick or brick break if you really need that fighting type attack for heatran...or nature power for earthquake over wifi for that precious 4x damage against said heatran...

Ok, they might be defensive, but most pwn the air balloon so it is good use here. Also dig is more reliable, plus is good if leech seeding/toxic, as it stalls the foe.
More counters:articuno is good as it sponges your shiftry's attacks, not hp fire, and fights with flying and ice moves. Watch out for rock slide. Be careful of dw blaziken. Its speed can double after two turns, then you are screwed.

[Ilan]

Ok, they might be defensive, but most pwn the air balloon so it is good use here. Also dig is more reliable, plus is good if leech seeding/toxic, as it stalls the foe.
More counters:articuno is good as it sponges your shiftry's attacks, not hp fire, and fights with flying and ice moves. Watch out for rock slide. Be careful of dw blaziken. Its speed can double after two turns, then you are screwed.

Dig is NEVER a good move especially when shiftry got nature power (= earthquake) (competitively in-game it is a decent move to have till you get EQ TM)
Articuno LOL who uses him anyway and articuno normally runs defensively and that is only in NU... articuno is awful.
DW blaziken is banned... and shiftry still can get a good hit with nature power.


Shiftry can't take ANY hit after I used him you can discard the set I put of subseed it is useless whimsicott and sceptile are SO much better at it.. if not then venusaur who is more bulky.

Why not just run a mixed shiftry with growth hp fire nature power and seed bomb

That's an option.
there are a lot of combinations in the mixed sets everyone put what he likes (or copy from smogon...)

[philzone]

Dig is NEVER a good move especially when shiftry got nature power (= earthquake) (competitively in-game it is a decent move to have till you get EQ TM)
Articuno LOL who uses him anyway and articuno normally runs defensively and that is only in NU... articuno is awful.
DW blaziken is banned... and shiftry still can get a good hit with nature power.
Shiftry can't take ANY hit after I used him you can discard the set I put of subseed it is useless whimsicott and sceptile are SO much better at it.. if not then venusaur who is more bulky.
That's an option.
there are a lot of combinations in the mixed sets everyone put what he likes (or copy from smogon...)

I love the idea of growth turning shiftry into a tank, but shiftry is a sweeper,so don't waste it.
shiftry can't learn earthquake via tm and nature power is not always earthquake
articuno is seen alot, as well as moltres, and both can cause serious damage to shiftry.
shiftry doesn't survive 1 hit without focus sash.
Ok...new set
Gale force
Seed bomb/bullet seed
Brick break
Sucker punch
Fake out/explosion/mega kick
Nature:adamant
Evs:4 hp,252 att,252 spd
Ability:chlorophyll
Item: life orb
Ok, here we go... set up sun,seed bomb to decimate opponents,or, bullet seed to ruin subs. Brick break for steels,sucker punch for priority STAB if foe attacking, fake out for crippling focus sashes and sturdys, explosion does its stuff,and mega kick is just a strong filler move

[jesusfreak94]

No, Moltres and Articuno's usage put together hardly breaks .2%. They are not used a lot. At all. And Nature Power will always be Earthquake in link battles or on simulators.

For future reference, you can always just check the usage stats here and move/Pokemon/ability/etc. facts on the main Smogon and Serebii sites.

[SwiftGrovyle]

Other options

Body slam... that's always a given. BODY SLAM EVERYTHING!
Pick pocket can be interesting. Give this thing a sash. Then take maybe life orb. Then go-
Explosion was good in fourth gen, but now? Ok.
Extrasensory for things like Conkledur, who expects you to switch.
Any wind move that's lame. Silver wind, Air cutter, Twister, Hurricane... Oh wait, I'm sorry, YOU CAN CAUSE POWERFUL WINDSTORMS AND NOT DO THIS!? Although Hurricane isn't lame, since every Tornadus has it, I find.
Subseed. Ah, the good 'ole days. Unfortunately, these days ain't them.
Quick attack and Fake out are the only priority moves it gets. (No vacuum wave? What?)
Power swapis ok. Better on Ninetales and executor, I find.
Rollout is funny. Add rock gem, and away we go!
Whirlwind should be with winds but it's a phasing move. Another nice option with the ability Pickpocket.
Mega kick. To your face. Ow. Good filler on a physical set. At least, I think so. 'specially with its high heels. As a gentleman, I've learned not to mess with those.

Doubles options-
Tailwind is probably the only useful wind it gets.
Beat up is another nice option.
Rock slide is more seen in the doubles. But hey, good move.
Spite... wut? Ok, I know it seems lame, but hey, could help with some low pp moves that hurt your team. Not to mention- Trump card.
Mimic. Ok, another 'seems lame' move, but use it to copy Ninetales heatwave, or another awesome move.

[Ilan]

I love the idea of growth turning shiftry into a tank, but shiftry is a sweeper,so don't waste it.
shiftry can't learn earthquake via tm and nature power is not always earthquake
articuno is seen alot, as well as moltres, and both can cause serious damage to shiftry.
shiftry doesn't survive 1 hit without focus sash.
Ok...new set
Gale force
Seed bomb/bullet seed
Brick break
Sucker punch
Fake out/explosion/mega kick
Nature:adamant
Evs:4 hp,252 att,252 spd
Ability:chlorophyll
Item: life orb
Ok, here we go... set up sun,seed bomb to decimate opponents,or, bullet seed to ruin subs. Brick break for steels,sucker punch for priority STAB if foe attacking, fake out for crippling focus sashes and sturdys, explosion does its stuff,and mega kick is just a strong filler move

How growth turns shiftry into a tank? Growth rises offenses not defenses FACEPALM
nature power is ALWAYS earthquake...
Mega Kick LOL ever heard of Return (just a base 102 power normal move every pokemon get access to (based on maximum happiness) and then why use return?

@above poster
Body Slam is better for Jirachi if shiftry doesn't kill it get killed.
Pick Pocket takes the item doesn't switch you can't use with sash. it is useless.
Explotion.. shiftry can do better than it with leaf storm
Flying* shiftry isn't that good in the rain so no hurrican..
Subseed can be used but not too effective whimsicott does a better job the only difference in the offensive moves shiftry have.

Shiftry get Sucker punch which is priority and it have no reason to use those weak moves or vaccum wave maybe fake out but it doesn't get U-turn or technican to use it effectively.
Power Swap is a gimmick..
Rollout is a really lame move competitively only works on gimmick shuckle sets.
whirlwind is better saved for bulky pokemon like skarmory.
Return=frustation > mega kick.. but anyway Nature Power is a better option

doubles
All the move you listed are bad except rock slide.

Actual other option:
Giga Drain- it can heal off the life orb recoil but it won't do the same damage as leaf storm
Subtitute it might get the chance to use it as it is fast enough but it is too frail for it.
Snarl too weak to be used but it can help a teammate to set up.
Low sweep same as snarl
Solar Beam is good only if you know you will win the weather war which isn't always true

[philzone]

No, Moltres and Articuno's usage put together hardly breaks .2%. They are not used a lot. At all. And Nature Power will always be Earthquake in link battles or on simulators.

For future reference, you can always just check the usage stats here and move/Pokemon/ability/etc. facts on the main Smogon and Serebii sites.

Thanks, i was actually confused with the tiers.
Ok. And also I ment tank as stronger, and very hard to beat, not as in it could take lots of hits.
partners. Dw nintails to set up sun. Heatran,though walls shiftry (without ground type moves) combos well,taking down pesky steels, tanglegrowth with chlorophyll works well in sun. Also,leafeon covers well with chlorophyll. Basically, chlorophyll users and fire and grass types work well.

[MetalCrow]

Thanks, i was actually confused with the tiers.
Ok. And also I ment tank as stronger, and very hard to beat, not as in it could take lots of hits.
partners. Dw nintails to set up sun. Heatran,though walls shiftry (without ground type moves) combos well,taking down pesky steels, tanglegrowth with chlorophyll works well in sun. Also,leafeon covers well with chlorophyll. Basically, chlorophyll users and fire and grass types work well.

The definition of a tank is taking (aka tanking) hits well & hitting the opponent hard as well...for example: heatran is a tank...skarmory is not a tank, it is a wall... shiftry is not a tank, it is a sweeper... that is all

[Rayofquazar]

Despite being a dark type, Shiftry is very good under the sun. Chlorophyll turns this wicked monster into a supersonic paced sweeper that very few pokemon can outrun it. Former generations, shiftry along with other chlorophyll abusers struggled to get a place in any team considering that endless sun was only viable in the uber tier and if you were not particularly strong or have something useful to do to your team, you just can't play with the big boys! That's until gen 5 and drizzletoad, droughttales were introtuced and the OU environment changed into a fast paced game relying heavily on weather conditions. With high mixed attacking stats and a speed that doubles in the sun to very high levels, shiftry is perfectly used in OU. It's movepool has everything he needs to succeed and provides him with decent coverage. it also has set up moves like growth although it will rarely find the occasion to set up. Shiftry's downside is it's large number of weaknesses and worsened more by awful defenses that makes him easily checked and countered, and the fact that weather is unreliable, losing the sun will means the end of shiftry and it's team if it doesn't have a plan B.