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Thread: Is the BW series doing gimmick things to have more ratings? Are they desesperate?

  1. #1
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    Default Is the BW series doing gimmick things to have more ratings? Are they desesperate?

    This thread is based on one that Dogasu made in Bulbagarden earlier this week.

    The topic of this thread is explain if you think that the anime is getting too gimmicky these days because the writers want to get back the show started to lose interest in BW?

    -We know that the ratings feel by a considerable amount of viewers between early-BW and mid-BW with some exceptions. This isn't the first time it happens but it's really noticeable now. I don0t say that the ratings are horrible.

    -The possible effects of the earthquake in the anime had in the promotion.

    -The effects on the show of the economy climax worldwide. Please, NOT discuss economy in general here.

    Possible Gimmick things:
    -Title changes: The series, for the first time, is changing titles mid-saga in Japan and they are promoting them separately with new things introduced in them. And remember that Episode N is ending before Ash/Cilan catches Sableye (almost confirmed) making thee Episode N title useless.

    -Dawn and Piplup's cameo was made like she is going to rejoin the main cast although they aren't. Remember the promotion that Season 2 = Dawn. Promotion that was made too heavily through the series.

    -Cynthia came back for more episode than Alder was and she appeared in the Meloetta finale.

    -Team Rocket's climax was heavily promoted as the end of Team Rocket although they aren't. And his return was also heavily promoted to be a big deal about their presence back into the show.

    -After 6 years of abscene Charizard is back into the show. With heavy promotion of the return. Also, in thei return episode, older characters will appear although they are flashback for the moment.

    -After all this years Mewtwo are returning for a movie 3 months before a new gen comes out instead of a new Pokemon.

    Sub-topic of this thread:
    Although I could be wrong, I expect that Pokemon merchandise sales are falling in the past two years because of different reasons, many of them are out of the control of the Pokemon franchise. Specially with the ratings of late-2010 and early 2011.

    The proof of it is that they need to start selling known marketable pokemon to hide the possible lack of sales. Eevee, Piplup, Charizard, Dragonite. And unlike before, they don't accept losing any marketable species until at least M16. Or how do you think why Ash has Oshawott and Snivy for the league, specially the latter?

    Let's discuss the thread. This is a opinion thread not a bashing or a spamming thread.

    If you only follow the dub, don't post here. You must know the Japanese promotion before post anything.

    Edit: You are allowed to disagree with this in all the point or in some of the points.
    Last edited by Eievui-Nymphia; 1st March 2013 at 11:32 PM.

  2. #2
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    Was there any reason to copy this thread from Bulbagarden onto to here? Especially with how much complaining it produced there? :I

    Like I said there, no BW advertises like every other series does.

  3. #3

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    I don't think they are desperate per-say but I do think that they are trying to pull in the ratings because less people are watching the anime these days. It's only natural for them to do that but at the same time, whatever they do has to make sense.
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    Although you have a really good point I still think that from the beginning BW was a very interesting saga - it always had surprises.
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    The anime has been "desperate" long before Best Wishes!, this is nothing new.

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    I do want to quote that they made Ash's badge quest far too short and got his butt kicked at the league, thus there is nothing left to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    The anime has been "desperate" long before Best Wishes!, this is nothing new.
    Sadly, that's how I feel too.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
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  8. #8

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    Before BW2, the Unova saga as a whole had the least amount of references any saga had ever made. OS, AG and DP had references from previous regions and sagas spread out throughout them.

    BW2/Episode N has made sure to be jam packed full of references to other sagas to catch up because the first 80 episodes of BW had absolutely nothing relating to the previous sagas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Before BW2, the Unova saga as a whole had the least amount of references any saga had ever made. OS, AG and DP had references from previous regions and sagas spread out throughout them.

    BW2/Episode N has made sure to be jam packed full of references to other sagas to catch up because the first 80 episodes of BW had absolutely nothing relating to the previous sagas.
    By OS, are you referring to just OI and Johto?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    By OS, are you referring to just OI and Johto?
    I know the OS was all one saga, but regardless Orange Islands and Johto referenced back on the Kanto events.

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the sudden surge in gimmicks. I mean this anime has always been about promoting the games and merchandise, but I noticed that the gimmicks increased especially once BW2 started. I can't even begin to name all the gimmicks, but the current saga should give an example of how desperate the network has become in their quest for higher ratings. Unfortunately, the writers haven't been able to deliver the goods despite all the hype, and many things that looked promising fell apart in my opinion.

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    They're not doing this because they want to, but because they have too.

    Ash's badge quest was rushed ultimately resulting in a poorly handled league. Sequels put everything out of order, the fast pace did its thing and the writers were forced to create something new to fill out the free space. Thankfully, the sequels gave them an opportunity for 'Season 2', which is something that never happened before, and which was a great idea since it was a great advertisement of the fact that we were getting actual sequel to main series Pokémon game for the first time. And of course they were going to pull out some older, more popular characters. What show doesn't want to increase their ratings?

    But don't get me wrong. Best Wishes! as a whole, doesn't have bad ratings - like I said many times, you can still find it regularly in the list of the top 10 anime in Japan so it's doing like it's always did. Solidly. Just like in DP, ratings started off strong and slowly dropped and are now at a consistent value.

    Like I said, they have to do this to fill out the space left until gen 6. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't give us fans a treat now and then.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    I can't even begin to name all the gimmicks, but the current saga should give an example of how desperate the network has become in their quest for higher ratings.
    I'm genuinely not being sarcastic here, what are all of the gimmicks? Advertisements for new characters and old characters returning? That sounds ridiculous to me if that's all it is.

    If it is the case, the only reason BW2/Episode N has all of these 'gimmicks' is because the first 80 episodes of BW had absolutely no gimmicks at all. BW2/Episode N is merely making up for that by cramming them all together in a short amount of time.

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    Trip being poorly received and Iris being handled unusually compared to past female leads may have contributed to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Trip being poorly received and Iris being handled unusually compared to past female leads may have contributed to it.
    Even if it was true, it might have to do something with Ash's poorly handled team, overdose of Oshawott, pathetic battles and even more pathetic league.

    Trip was a failure, but Iris is a single piece to come out of this series to have a decent development.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Even if it was true, it might have to do something with Ash's poorly handled team, overdose of Oshawott, pathetic battles and even more pathetic league.

    Trip was a failure, but Iris is a single piece to come out of this series to have a decent development.
    Iris is still unconventional though. Before BW the thought of Iris being handled the way she was is unthinkable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I'm genuinely not being sarcastic here, what are all of the gimmicks? Advertisements for new characters and old characters returning? That sounds ridiculous to me if that's all it is.
    Well let's see, pretty much everything that was hyped months in advance like Dawn's return, the World Tournament Junior Cup, the "Team Rocket's greatest scheme" two-parter, Virgil and his Eevee evolutions, the Unova League, N, Looker, Oak and Charizard returning, Genesect's movie tie-in, etc. And those are just the gimmicks from BW2 to the current arc. Most of those gimmicks went nowhere and were regarded as wastes of time by the majority of fans.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Well let's see, pretty much everything that was hyped months in advance like Dawn's return, the World Tournament Junior Cup, the "Team Rocket's greatest scheme" two-parter, Virgil and his Eevee evolutions, the Unova League, N, Looker, Oak and Charizard returning, Genesect's movie tie-in, etc. And those are just the gimmicks from BW2 to the current arc. Most of those gimmicks went nowhere and were regarded as wastes of time by the majority of fans.
    Fair enough, but i don't really blame these as reasons for the shows apparent rating losses (which fer is talking about). Every show has gimmicks/advertisements, and i think it's pretty well known that no gimmick ever really goes anywhere other than being entertaining for a short period of time.

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    Maybe they are, I dunno. Do I care though? PFFF no. Like said before this, we're just getting so many old things now because BW1 had none of them at all. And I don't have a problem with it, I've found most of these "gimmicks" pretty cool. Especially all the old stuff coming at as right now. They're bringing freaking Charizard back to the team. Not just for one battle, THE TEAM. I mean holy ****. I watch this for my own enjoyment, ratings mean nothing to me.
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    Well its no secret how BW saga has pretty low rating and pokemon reputation as whole is on shaky legs compared to better, golden days.

    However while BW handled story pretty poorly, regressed Ash character and was very scarse on continuity and consistent development of characters in first half i believe unusual onslaught of heavy references toward previous sagas is done with purpose of all three things mixed into one. Such as marketing, rushed extremely fast paced saga finishing of with important events sooner than expected with writers trying to find way to full up time before 6th gen starts,.

    And to grab people attention with all this unexpected returns of popular older pokemon and characters usually being done as fanservice for older generations being rating grab traps.

    I mean its no secret how return of popular pokemon like Charizard or references or even returns of mega popular characters like Dawn, Misty or Brock is going to hype things up a lot and attract attention from older fans toward this show increasing ratings, possibly even sales if people favorites return got excited them enough to get hooked on pokemon again as well bring something unexpected to new viewers keeping them lift up.

    Which helps increase anime reputation, popularity and credibility through positive reception and word of mouth to wider group of people who will tell others and so on creating never ending chain.

    Because i have to admit while other sagas like AG and DP did had their share of references and throwbacks to past it never happened in such short time period being less than half a year. Whether its Dawn overhyped return, revival of Mewtwo facing Gensect in upcoming movie, return of classic Kanto pokemon like Charizard being accompanied on top of that with flashbacks including Brock and Misty who hasn't been showed outside of items like lure for 7 years which could later lead toward real in flesh return etc.

    When several widely positively accepted and popular things get brought back in highly short period of time it does leave impression of being suspicious giving out how writers are on purpose doing all of this to maintain viewers attention and if possible bring boost to already staggered ratings just enough before new generation gets released and they get new plot to work with.

    As well serving as step toward recovery .
    Since such gestures only provides more references and flashbacks to past increasing continuity and serving as stepping stone toward better written anime filled with more cohesive and better compact story, and most importantly consistent development of characters.

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    Brining back Mewtwo and Charizard returning is the biggest gimmick that the writers have ever pulled. The fact that people are excited over it just goes to show how dumb the people that are excited are. It's a little impressive when you think about it for only a second. Anymore and you'll just be disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Brining back Mewtwo and Charizard returning is the biggest gimmick that the writers have ever pulled. The fact that people are excited over it just goes to show how dumb the people that are excited are. It's a little impressive when you think about it for only a second. Anymore and you'll just be disappointed.
    Way to insult 99% percent of this fanbase.

    Now it's suddenly wrong to be excited about stuff? What the hell?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Brining back Mewtwo and Charizard returning is the biggest gimmick that the writers have ever pulled. The fact that people are excited over it just goes to show how dumb the people that are excited are. It's a little impressive when you think about it for only a second. Anymore and you'll just be disappointed.
    So it's dumb to be excited about seeing something cool in a kids show. Actually, that's probably true for us adults but that's besides the point. Stop talking sh*t and let people enjoy their damn kids anime. The levels of arrogance LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Brining back Mewtwo...is the biggest gimmick that the writers have ever pulled.
    I agree that it's a huge gimmick, as well as an obvious one. I mean I think it's clear that they want to replicate the success of the first movie, but it's also really lame in my opinion because instead of trying something new, they're repeating themselves something fierce by re-using old ideas, which isn't appealing to me.

    And speaking of ratings, does anyone have a link to that site that lists all the ratings for the Japanese version of the anime? I lost track of it and I'm curious about the latest ratings.
    Last edited by Lorde; 1st March 2013 at 10:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    Possible Gimmick things:
    -Title changes: The series, for the first time, is changing titles mid-saga in Japan and they are promoting them separately with new things introduced in them. And remember that Episode N is ending before Ash/Cilan catches Sableye (almost confirmed) making thee Episode N title useless.
    Almost confirmed? Wut?

    -Dawn and Piplup's cameo was made like she is going to rejoin the main cast although they aren't. Remember the promotion that Season 2 = Dawn. Promotion that was made too heavily through the series.
    What? Season 2 = League, not Dawn. She was heavily promoted because she was coming back, and Piplup. And it depends on the view of the person, you see it as Season 2 = Dawn. Doesn't mean it's true.

    -Team Rocket's climax was heavily promoted as the end of Team Rocket although they aren't. And his return was also heavily promoted to be a big deal about their presence back into the show.
    No, you see it as the possible end of Tr. The writers did not see it that way, clearly.

    Although I could be wrong, I expect that Pokemon merchandise sales are falling in the past two years because of different reasons, many of them are out of the control of the Pokemon franchise. Specially with the ratings of late-2010 and early 2011.
    If the ratings are going down, wouldn't it make more sense to advertise Pokemon famous now. If the show is aimed at younger kids, the younger gens would work better no?

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