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Thread: Team Plasma and Pierce to potentially return?

  1. #951

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    Lots of people knew about this statement. Serebii has known for months. The reason it was never really brought up here, on the main site, anywhere, is exactly because it essentially boils down to "unnamed, unidentified source mentioned this highly "controversial" spoiler on the internet with no real proof", and it would just create a bunch of arguments over its validity.

    But yeah, it's been out there for a while, it's not some obscure knowledge shared by only one or two people. It's just the kind of thing people have individually decided is better to keep quiet about until we know more.

  2. #952
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    They might as well wait till after the Unova league ends to air it so they don't break up the current arc....so either way it still won't air to early 2013 sometime if it does.

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    -Interesting. Apart from the dub opening (thing that we already know) and the Unova League, we know why the episodes will be "skipped" in their first place. The Fukushima disaster. Also he said that the episodes can air, not will air. But now why the writers could air those episodes:

    1) Because fan's complaints: Not only in English sites but also in Japanese boards (ex:2chan). But specially for this two reasons.

    2) The big plot hole caused by the episodes: If you remember correctly, those episodes are foreshadowed since BW1. And all the TR actions since episode 7 were steps in the Meteonite arc.. That arc wasn't completed because the skip of that episodes. The dub intend to retconned partially this episodes by not having Ash go to the Desert Resort but that doesn't solution the plot hole.

    3)And the Genesect movie: Genesect's pokedex mentions Team Plasma and we know that Genesect will be in the next movie (will be more, but still). And although Team plasma aren't going to take a big role in the movie, they must appear in the intro.

    I said what I think that will happen:
    -Although the Plasma story could be planned to last more episodes in the BW saga, I said that in the case was true, that will be retconned.
    -I think (not I'm sure) that the episode of Team Plasma will air with this qualities:
    1) They aren't going to advice that the episodes are out of order.
    2) The scenes that could resemble nuclear disaster could be edited to avoid problems.
    3) If Team Plasma are supposed to last throgh BW, that will be edit to make sure that Team plasma won't return to the anime apart from the movie.
    4) It's possibly that will air 2-3 months before the Genesect movie.

    But I also think that:
    -The Hydreigon on the Dare da? on BWS2-23 won't be Ghetsis' Hydreigon. I think that's or Kotetsu or I can see being Shobu (more the former).
    -The filler saga won't be about Team Plasma apart from the movie. Furthermore, I'm thinking that Unova won't be the setting of it.

    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    Lots of people knew about this statement. Serebii has known for months. The reason it was never really brought up here, on the main site, anywhere, is exactly because it essentially boils down to "unnamed, unidentified source mentioned this highly "controversial" spoiler on the internet with no real proof", and it would just create a bunch of arguments over its validity.

    But yeah, it's been out there for a while, it's not some obscure knowledge shared by only one or two people. It's just the kind of thing people have individually decided is better to keep quiet about until we know more.
    Yeah, I know why specially you, one of the webmasters of pocketmonsters.net (Adamant there) will saisd that the Plasma episodes will air. Specially because @Dephnder goes here to say fact, not opinions.
    Last edited by Eievui-Nymphia; 15th November 2012 at 6:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    -Interesting. Apart from the dub opening (thing that we already know) and the Unova League, we know why the episodes will be "skipped" in their first place. The Fukushima disaster. Also he said that the episodes can air, not will air. But now why the writers could air those episodes:

    1) Because fan's complaints: Not only in English sites but also in Japanese boards (ex:2chan). But specially for this two reasons.

    2) The big plot hole caused by the episodes: If you remember correctly, those episodes are foreshadowed since BW1. And all the TR actions since episode 7 were steps in the Meteonite arc.. That arc wasn't completed because the skip of that episodes. The dub intend to retconned partially this episodes by not having Ash go to the Desert Resort but that doesn't solution the plot hole.

    3)And the Genesect movie: Genesect's pokedex mentions Team Plasma and we know that Genesect will be in the next movie (will be more, but still). And although Team plasma aren't going to take a big role in the movie, they must appear in the intro.

    I said what I think that will happen:
    -Although the Plasma story could be planned to last more episodes in the BW saga, I said that in the case was true, that will be retconned.
    -I think (not I'm sure) that the episode of Team Plasma will air with this qualities:
    1) They aren't going to advice that the episodes are out of order.
    2) The scenes that could resemble nuclear disaster could be edited to avoid problems.
    3) If Team Plasma are supposed to last throgh BW, that will be edit to make sure that Team plasma won't return to the anime apart from the movie.
    4) It's possibly that will air 2-3 months before the Genesect movie.

    But I also think that:
    -The Hydreigon on the Dare da? on BWS2-23 won't be Ghetsis' Hydreigon. I think that's or Kotetsu or I can see being Shobu (more the former).
    -The filler saga won't be about Team Plasma apart from the movie. Furthermore, I'm thinking that Unova won't be the setting of it.

    And finally, @The Great Butler and @Pokemaniac24, give me the source in this thread as soon as possible.
    Sorry but I am going to respect AgentPierce. If Butler wants to give it to you, he can though.

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    Jesus, this is getting as bad as the old conspiracy theories about SOVA and 4kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Jesus, this is getting as bad as the old conspiracy theories about SOVA and 4kids.
    That's why I am not making it any worse by giving information to Fer92. AgentPierce already told me the forums will blow up if he makes a thread about this so I don't want to be giving away the source especially since AgentPierce was already upset about how people were behaving in this thread a few months ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    -Interesting. Apart from the dub opening (thing that we already know) and the Unova League, we know why the episodes will be "skipped" in their first place. The Fukushima disaster. Also he said that the episodes can air, not will air.
    No, he explicitly said they would air.

    In late 2012-early 2013, there will be two episodes, which would normally be released 1 year ago, according to you what are these episodes? Those who wanted to see will be served!

    ...

    Satoshi vs Adeku was released. These are the episodes of Team Rocket against Team Plasma.
    I wish that this information hadn't exploded on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    Since the information isn't all that secret anymore, this source also correctly called Rival Destinies having a clip show OP since the raw had not made a new one yet (granted, that one was easy) as well as correctly stating that the Unova League would be in dub season 16 long before we knew BW103 was the first episode of it; whether Rival Destinies is 48 or 52 episodes, it's either going to end with Operation Tempest or the Village of Dragons episode.
    None of these predictions would have been difficult to make. Even if the league had started a few episodes earlier (and most fans didn't think it would), it wouldn't have ended before the end of Season 15.

    According to what this source has said, the Fukushima disaster was indeed why the episodes were skipped and Fukushima finally being closed is why they can air now.
    Finally closed? It will take years or decades to clean up Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster. There's a lot of uncertainty in the Japanese public as to what to believe about the levels of radiation in the area; the fear hasn't faded. Even if it did, the memory of the earthquake and tsunami would still be evoked by anything controversial.

    You could argue that an edited version of the two-parter could be passed off as being uncontroversial. But nothing has changed in recent months, nor is anything going to change until next year. If the 1.5 year gap between the disaster and the airing of Operation Tempest wasn't deemed to be enough time to move on, why would a few more months make any difference?
    Last edited by Kein; 15th November 2012 at 8:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post

    You could argue that an edited version of the two-parter could be passed off as being uncontroversial. But nothing has changed in recent months, nor is anything going to change until next year. If the 1.5 year gap between the disaster and the airing of Operation Tempest wasn't deemed to be enough time to move on, why would a few more months make any difference?
    My guess would be to save it until after the League in order to air it near something upcoming involving Team Plasma, be it an anime arc or the Genesect movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    My guess would be to save it until after the League in order to air it near something upcoming involving Team Plasma, be it an anime arc or the Genesect movie.
    Last I checked the Meteorite plot was especially relevant to Team Rocket, and yet it was completely ignored throughout their continued activities in Unova. Even if Team Plasma were to appear as part of a new plot, which is quite frankly doubtful, I see no reason why the Meteorite plot would suddenly be relevant again (more so than it could have been relevant to Operation Tempest, for example).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyichigo View Post
    Also, Pokemaniac, you wouldn't happen to be acquainted with someone by the username of ManwiththePlan, would you?
    Uh, yeah, ManwiththePlan is who I initially found out about the source from. I spoke with him prior to his banning about it via PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    it essentially boils down to "unnamed, unidentified source mentioned this highly "controversial" spoiler on the internet with no real proof", and it would just create a bunch of arguments over its validity.
    Exactly. There's no solid proof, I only believe it's valid through deduction and adding up just what else the source has said, how he's said it, and how much it's been true.

    And as Butler detailed, everything else that he's stated for certain has in fact been true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    But yeah, it's been out there for a while, it's not some obscure knowledge shared by only one or two people. It's just the kind of thing people have individually decided is better to keep quiet about until we know more.
    Yep, and here I thought finally coming out with the info I had so close toward the end of 2012 wouldn't be so bad.....big mistake! -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Last I checked the Meteorite plot was especially relevant to Team Rocket, and yet it was completely ignored throughout their continued activities in Unova.
    Yes, because just about everything in it was already wrapped up in the two-parter. The Meteonite was destroyed, Team Plasma vanished, Giovanni and his forces retreated back to Kanto, Pierce was likely arrested, and in the following episode, Jessie and James return to their white uniforms and soon afterwards hook up with the only character and plot point left from the Meteonite arc: Dr. Zager and his Mobile Research Lab. The Meteonite arc was finished with TR vs. TP; TR was never going to continue to make references to it afterward.

    Even if Team Plasma were to appear as part of a new plot, which is quite frankly doubtful, I see no reason why the Meteorite plot would suddenly be relevant again (more so than it could have been relevant to Operation Tempest, for example).
    It wasn't relevant to Operation Tempest because there was no connection other than Giovanni returning to Unova, and they didn't need to talk of the Meteonite plot for that.

    With Team Plasma, the Meteonite plot was their debut, so it'll HAVE to be brought up by Ash and co. if they show up again as part of a new plot.

    None of these predictions would have been difficult to make. Even if the league had started a few episodes earlier (and most fans didn't think it would), it wouldn't have ended before the end of Season 15.
    You ought to know that these "predictions" were stated in February 2012. Before Season 15 aired; before Ash reached Mistralton City in the Japanese version...and before anyone knew about "Best Wishes Season 2", the Meloetta/Operation Tempest arc, and stuff like that which created a wait between Ash's 8th Gym and the Unova League. No-one knew when the League would start back then and alot of people were speculating it would earlier than it actually did. Saying for sure it's not for Season 15 was hardly an easy guess.

    Finally closed? It will take years or decades to clean up Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster. There's a lot of uncertainty in the Japanese public as to what to believe about the levels of radiation in the area; the fear hasn't faded. Even if it did, the memory of the earthquake and tsunami would still be evoked by anything controversial.
    1. Clean-up doesn't matter here. If the reactors are all shut down, then the possibility of another such disaster is gone too, making the episodes safe to air, memories be damned.

    2. The memory of the earthquake and tsunami has been evoked already since then. The 13th Pokemon movie, featuring an actual tsunami, aired on TV in Summer 2011!

    If the 1.5 year gap between the disaster and the airing of Operation Tempest wasn't deemed to be enough time to move on, why would a few more months make any difference?
    Again, this info was given out in February, long before anyone KNEW about Operation Tempest. TV Tokyo didn't air it around the time of Tempest because it "wasn't deemed to be enough time to move on"; they didn't air it because they'd made up their minds about when to air it looong in advance already: Late 2012 - Early 2013 (likely December or January.)
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 15th November 2012 at 6:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    It wasn't relevant to Operation Tempest because there was no connection other than Giovanni returning to Unova, and they didn't need to talk of the Meteonite plot for that.

    With Team Plasma, the Meteonite plot was their debut, so it'll HAVE to be brought up by Ash and co. if they show up again as part of a new plot.
    So you think that the writers' original plan was for Team Plasma to vanish after the two-parter and never be mentioned again by anyone, only to resurface after the league? Explain to me how that makes sense.

    Also, I fail to see why the Meteorite plot would have to be brought up for Team Plasma but not for Giovanni. If the writers could pull off not having Ash and co. acknowledge their previous encounter with Giovanni, they can do so with Team Plasma, as well.

    You ought to know that these "predictions" were stated in February 2012. Before Season 15 aired; before Ash reached Mistralton City in the Japanese version...and before anyone knew about "Best Wishes Season 2", the Meloetta/Operation Tempest arc, and stuff like that which created a wait between Ash's 8th Gym and the Unova League. No-one knew when the League would start back then and alot of people were speculating it would earlier than it actually did. Saying for sure it's not for Season 15 was hardly an easy guess.
    It certainly wasn't a difficult guess. After the long gap between Castelia and Nimbasa, it was pretty obvious that Best Wishes wasn't as fast-paced as the Kanto saga, meaning that it seemed likely that the league wouldn't be wrapped up within 100 episodes. Even without Season 2, the Unova journey could have easily been dragged on.

    If the reactors are all shut down, then the possibility of another such disaster is gone too, making the episodes safe to air, memories be damned.
    So you think that the problem with airing the episodes is related to future concerns rather than past ones? That's an odd way of looking at things. Besides, two of the reactors have been reactivated despite public protests. You're sugarcoating a very controversial topic.

    Again, this info was given out in February, long before anyone KNEW about Operation Tempest. TV Tokyo didn't air it around the time of Tempest because it "wasn't deemed to be enough time to move on"; they didn't air it because they'd made up their minds about when to air it looong in advance already: Late 2012 - Early 2013 (likely December or January.)
    That doesn't begin to explain why they would have their minds set on having Team Plasma come back so late. A gap of nearly two years is unprecedented.

    Also, how long have you been aware of this source's claim? Since February? Didn't you speculate about the two-parter airing before Operation Tempest?
    Last edited by Kein; 15th November 2012 at 7:32 PM.

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    Maybe Team Plasma did not reveal themselves because they were argueing their believes on getting trainers to release their Pokemon and split in two One would try to scare people with thoughts on having Pokemon on side led by N, and the other will scare them with their threats of stealing led by Ghetsis.
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    I can see Team Plasma getting eps after the league dealing with the creation of Genosect, then it escapes and has the role of the next movie.

    Sure, it'd be a carbon copy of the TR/Mewtwo plot from Season 1....but better late than never, eh?

    Still not sure if we'd actually see N though.

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    Honestly at this it is too little to late for me. The only episodes with Plasma I wanna see is the two parter. After that they can stay gone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Again, this info was given out in February, long before anyone KNEW about Operation Tempest. TV Tokyo didn't air it around the time of Tempest because it "wasn't deemed to be enough time to move on"; they didn't air it because they'd made up their minds about when to air it looong in advance already: Late 2012 - Early 2013 (likely December or January.)
    I found that secret source and the post (at least for me say that he replied during the first days of November). In this case,
    -Unova League starting in Season 16. Obvious.
    -Opening changed because the opening doesn't change in Japan. Obvious.
    -Best Wishes ended in 2013. if it's in Febraury, John Loeffler (and this is OFFICIAL) also said that. But seeing John Loeffler statement, there could be changes between the two events (the dub doesn't know things 20 months in advance from Japan). And seeing the Genesect case...

    I don't think that the source is fiable and that Goltik has lied to the audience because:
    -He posted on a simple forum on a French site. This is very strange.
    -The episodes has already made and possibly dubbed. TV Tokyo has the decision to air.
    -(minor) The dub producer almost never say release dates in Japan.
    -(The most important). The TPCi producers aren't allowed to said any hint of what happened about events that they aren't going to release. For example, the TPCI producers can't say if it's a pokemon in the works, etc because this isnn't allowed.
    And for example, Gamefreak posted hints about the release of new pokemon ONLY when they're about to release because with the hint you buy the next CoroCoro.
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    So the French guy is not a reliable source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    I found that secret source and the post (at least for me say that he replied during the first days of November). [/B]
    He replied in February but for some reason, they keep changing the date to match the current month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    He replied in February but for some reason, they keep changing the date to match the current month.
    Yeah, the comments read the first day of October last month, and it read the first day of September the month before that. It's a glitch.

    I don't know what the deal is, but it's pretty damn clear that since the article was posted in February, so were the comments.

    Seriously, why the hell would a February article get comments 8 months later? And why would people not know about the opening change by then?

    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    He posted on a simple forum on a French site. This is very strange.
    That's not a forum, it's a comment section on the news of the actual site.

    The episodes has already made and possibly dubbed. TV Tokyo has the decision to air.
    Right, and Goltik never said otherwise. The decision to air them in late 2012 or early 2013 would have been TV Tokyo's, naturally.

    The dub producer almost never say release dates in Japan.
    Er, what? How do you come by that logic?

    The TPCi producers aren't allowed to said any hint of what happened about events that they aren't going to release. For example, the TPCI producers can't say if it's a pokemon in the works, etc because this isn't allowed.
    There's a big difference betwen the unveiling of something totally new and the confirmation of when something that was supposed to air over a year ago will finally air.

    the dub doesn't know things 20 months in advance from Japan
    The dub knows things from Japan as soon as they happen in the planning stages. I don't think you get how closely the production of the anime goes with it's international liscencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    So you think that the writers' original plan was for Team Plasma to vanish after the two-parter and never be mentioned again by anyone, only to resurface after the league? Explain to me how that makes sense.
    It makes sense because Team Rocket was going to remain the main serious evil villain team, not Team Plasma.

    Operation Tempest was the end of Team Rocket, thus Team Plasma can safely return.

    People who think the writers' original plan before the disaster was Team Plasma becoming a focus and TR becoming comedic foes again are misinformed.

    If the writers could pull off not having Ash and co. acknowledge their previous encounter with Giovanni, they can do so with Team Plasma, as well.
    Ash's only previous encounter with Giovanni was years and years ago in a different series. Team Plasma is a different matter entirely.

    So you think that the problem with airing the episodes is related to future concerns rather than past ones? That's an odd way of looking at things.
    Not really. The past is long past now, holding the episodes because it'll "remind people of the disaster" makes no sense. They will ALWAYS remind some people of the disaster no matter how much time passes, but they can't be withheld forever since the promise was given on TV to air them at a later date, a promise that anyone in Japan with access to Hulu can go and see, to say nothing of the constant re-airings of the BW023 preview at the end of BW022. Over a year and half is enough time to get over the past, and with future problems with nuclear radiation being currently prevented, it's a perfectly reasonable time. "Too Soon" is no longer an effective reason to keep them off the air, since it's no longer "Too Soon".

    That doesn't begin to explain why they would have their minds set on having Team Plasma come back so late. A gap of nearly two years is unprecedented.
    Unprecedented with what? Team Aqua and Magma? Team Galactic? Again, you're missing the fact that TEAM ROCKET was fulfilling that role already. People need to get over their memories of the TRio as comic relief and accept that they were the big villains here, not the current Gen's evil team agan. Plasma's presence would be redundant; it'd only create more fights between them and Team Rocket, which would diminish their clash over the Meteonite. It's only after Team Rocket has left Unova for good that Plasma's return is warrented.

    Also, how long have you been aware of this source's claim? Since February? Didn't you speculate about the two-parter airing before Operation Tempest?
    Since September, actually. A while after I'd given up on that Tempest notion. The source's claim happened in February, but I didn't find out about it until much later.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 16th November 2012 at 7:15 PM.

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    Sorry, I don't know that the page has a glitch. Although it doesn't make sense because the new was in Febraury when Rival Destinies started.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Yeah, the comments read the first day of October last month, and it read the first day of September the month before that. It's a glitch.

    I don't know what the deal is, but it's pretty damn clear that since the article was posted in February, so were the comments.

    Seriously, why the hell would a February article get comments 8 months later? And why would people not know about the opening change by then?



    That's not a forum, it's a comment section on the news of the actual site. Well, itˇs true.



    Right, and Goltik never said otherwise. The decision to air them in late 2012 or early 2013 would have been TV Tokyo's, naturally. We know that won't happen late-2012 already. And at least won't happen until the league.



    Er, what? How do you come by that logic?



    There's a big difference betwen the unveiling of something totally new and the confirmation of when something that was supposed to air over a year ago will finally air.



    The dub knows things from Japan as soon as they happen in the planning stages. I don't think you get how closely the production of the anime goes with it's international liscencing. I think that's true with TPCi (with 4kids back then, not so much). And if they know about that happening 10 months in advanced, why not air like after Tempest?



    It makes sense because Team Rocket was going to remain the main serious evil villain team, not Team Plasma.

    Operation Tempest was the end of Team Rocket, thus Team Plasma can safely return. Wait, I can see this the end of serious Rockets, not the end of Team Rocket. Remember that TR is in Kantro and Ash is probably going to Kanto soon.

    People who think the writers' original plan before the disaster was Team Plasma becoming a focus and TR becoming comedic foes again are misinformed. And explain me the radio show, the Live Casters, the upcoming special, the Meloetta short (minor) and the fact that the seiyuu don't like serious Team Rocket. But I think that in the filler saga we could see the return of funny Team Rocket.



    Ash's only previous encounter with Giovanni was years and years ago in a different series. Team Plasma is a different matter entirely.



    Not really. The past is long past now, holding the episodes because it'll "remind people of the disaster" makes no sense. They will ALWAYS remind some people of the disaster no matter how much time passes, but they can't be withheld forever since the promise was given on TV to air them at a later date, a promise that anyone in Japan with access to Hulu can go and see, to say nothing of the constant re-airings of the BW023 preview at the end of BW022. Over a year and half is enough time to get over the past, and with future problems with nuclear radiation being currently prevented, it's a perfectly reasonable time. "Too Soon" is no longer an effective reason to keep them off the air, since it's no longer "Too Soon". The Hulu warning is stock info from the original airing. Same with the Kids Station, etc. And when a disaster of that magnitude happens there's something more important than a two-partner.



    Unprecedented with what? Team Aqua and Magma? Team Galactic? Again, you're missing the fact that TEAM ROCKET was fulfilling that role already. People need to get over their memories of the TRio as comic relief and accept that they were the big villains here, not the current Gen's evil team agan. Plasma's presence would be redundant; it'd only create more fights between them and Team Rocket, which would diminish their clash over the Meteonite. It's only after Team Rocket has left Unova for good that Plasma's return is warrented. Oh, AgentPierce, you have forget that Ash's show in Unova could last only 2 months more (exacty the league). And out of Unova Team Plasma aren't going to appear.



    Since September, actually. A while after I'd given up on that Tempest notion. The source's claim happened in February, but I didn't find out about it until much later.
    You have forget something. There's people around the net who could claims that work for TPCi. And I see things that I found suspecting:
    -Says where Team Rocket vs Team Plasma will air long efore the episodes finally air in Japan (at least 10 months).
    -The others statements are statements that a real source (John Loeffler also said that"the series "based in Black & White" will be a 3-year series) or aren't difficult to predict (the Unova League happening in Season 16). To be more precise, who Loeffler said could end in two months if Ash goes from Unova.

    -The TPCi producers aren't allowed to share
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Operation Tempest was the end of Team Rocket, thus Team Plasma can safely return.
    Except Operation Tempest was merely the end of Team Rocket in Unova rather than in general, and for all we know Ash may very well leave Unova after the league. The ending montage of the second Operation Tempest episode was followed by Meowth telling viewers to look forward to Team Rocket's return.

    People who think the writers' original plan before the disaster was Team Plasma becoming a focus and TR becoming comedic foes again are misinformed.
    I'd say that people who think that the writers' current plan is to replace Team Rocket with Team Plasma are also misinformed; it's nothing more than wishful thinking. And no, the fact that Team Plasma is linked to Genesect doesn't have to mean anything to the show. To Movie 16 perhaps, but even then it wouldn't have to be anything big considering that the movies have steered clear from game characters. Genesect will most likely play second fiddle to the Generation VI star, anyway.

    Ash's only previous encounter with Giovanni was years and years ago in a different series. Team Plasma is a different matter entirely.
    That's the point. As far as young viewers are concerned, Giovanni should have been properly introduced in the two-parter, but he wasn't due to the episodes not airing, and yet that didn't interfere with Operation Tempest. What difference does it make that Team Plasma are brand new characters? That just means that they could be introduced from scratch if the writers were at all interested in them still. The Plasma grunts in the two-parter didn't even look important.

    Plasma's presence would be redundant; it'd only create more fights between them and Team Rocket, which would diminish their clash over the Meteonite. It's only after Team Rocket has left Unova for good that Plasma's return is warrented.
    Warranted? After Operation Tempest was called Unova's biggest crisis? After the Tao trio have already been given roles in their movies, and the frozen Unova scenario has been used twice in Season 2? After Team Plasma have been given no build-up at all since the Meteorite plot? Please enlighten me.

    Under the reasonable assumption that the post-league will only last 8 months, Team Plasma won't have time to have a real presence on the show. It's fairly obvious that the writers will never focus on any villain-related plot for more than two episodes every three months, meaning that Team Plasma would only make three appearances at best (the Meteorite plot would count as one appearance if you were to be proven right). It makes far more sense to stick to the promise to bring back Team Rocket, if only for the sake of giving the villains that have actually been developed a proper conclusion.

    but they can't be withheld forever since the promise was given on TV to air them at a later date, a promise that anyone in Japan with access to Hulu can go and see, to say nothing of the constant re-airings of the BW023 preview at the end of BW022.
    The promise wasn't given on TV, and the statement has long since been removed from the TV Tokyo website. As for the preview remaining in tact in re-airings of BW022, all it means is that no one bothered to edit the episode (except for the DVD release, where the preview was removed). It's not as if they reiterated the original promise.

    If they wanted us to keep looking forward to the two-parter, surely they would be vocal about it. There is no reason for this kind of secrecy.
    Last edited by Kein; 16th November 2012 at 8:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    Sorry, I don't know that the page has a glitch. Although it doesn't make sense because the new was in Febraury when Rival Destinies started.
    Why doesn't it make sense? The article was about the start of Rival Destinies!

    To be more precise, who Loeffler said could end in two months if Ash goes from Unova.
    There is a Best Wishes movie in Summer 2013, which means that Best Wishes will not end before Summer 2013.

    Also, to be a full 3-year series, it would have to end in early September 2013. Sep. 2010 --- Sep. 2013 = 3 full years.

    And the notion that Ash leaving Unova after the League is stupid, since he didn't originally come to Unova for the League, he came with his mother and Professor Oak who had business reasons for coming there. If his mother isn't ready to leave, or if Iris and Cilan have stuff to do that he wants to stick around for, or if Team Plasma strikes, then he'll stay.

    The TPCi producers aren't allowed to share
    Whoever said he was a producer? Working for TPCi doesn't mean he's a bigshot there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Except Operation Tempest was merely the end of Team Rocket in Unova rather than in general, and for all we know Ash may very well leave Unova after the league.
    See above for why the assumption Ash will leave after the League is dumb, and also, it was the end of Team Rocket as major characters in the anime, not just in Unova.

    The ending montage of the second Operation Tempest episode was followed by Meowth telling viewers to look forward to Team Rocket's return.
    Er, no, it was proceeded by it, not followed.

    And Team Rocket is returning....in an outside-the-anime TV event like, incidentally, that Livecaster was. Their time in the anime is still pretty much over.

    Genesect will most likely play second fiddle to the Generation VI star, anyway.
    Except that there is NO evidence that any progress has been made on Gen VI, let alone that it's going to be coming next year.

    As far as young viewers are concerned, Giovanni should have been properly introduced in the two-parter, but he wasn't due to the episodes not airing, and yet that didn't interfere with Operation Tempest.
    What!? Giovanni was "properly introduced" in the first episode of BW. First coming to Unova in person doesn't make him "properly introduced", and there's also no indication whatsoever that Ash met him in that two-parter. From all that we have to go by, the only people who saw him there were Juniper, Looker, and Cilan; the first two not being present in Tempest and Cilan never being up close and personal with Giovanni in Tempest, so naturally there won't be any reference. What did you expect to happen? The only people who would logically reference the Meteonite arc in Tempest would be Giovanni, Zager, or the TRio, but since these episodes were produced after the disaster and known to air before the postponed two-parter would, the writers just refrained from having anyone make reference to it. Team Plasma is different because the staff of the show have no desire to remove the postponed two-parter from continuity and do in fact want to air it, and since it's Team Plasma's canonical debut, reference would HAVE to be made when they return.

    Operation Tempest was called Unova's biggest crisis?
    As in the biggest crisis Unova has ever face thusfar.

    After the Tao trio have already been given roles in their movies, and the frozen Unova scenario has been used twice in Season 2?
    Right, because Dialga and Palkia having roles in the movies totally meant they couldn't be used in the show for Team Galactic's plotline. Oh, wait.

    And what does the frozen Unova scenario matter? Team Plasma can be used without that being used, especially if it's based more on B/W than B2/W2.

    It's fairly obvious that the writers will never focus on any villain-related plot for more than two episodes every three months
    That was before BW, where Team Rocket's plots recieved focus in several episodes for months, the gap between Chargestone Cave and Twist Mountain being the sole exception.

    It makes far more sense to stick to the promise to bring back Team Rocket, if only for the sake of giving the villains that have actually been developed a proper conclusion.
    They HAVE been given a "proper conclusion". It may not be the conclusion that you wanted, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a conclusion.

    The promise wasn't given on TV
    Yes, yes it was. BW025 begins with text on screen as Ash enters Castelia Gym reading "The broadcast of today has been altered. Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma will be aired at a later date." That text is still on Hulu's version of the episode, so anyone with a Japanese Hulu account can see it anytime they want to, which keeps them reminded.

    and the statement has long since been removed from the TV Tokyo website.
    No, it has not. It was never a "stickied" message, it was on two pages (the summaries for BW025 and BW027) and those pages have been bumped down as new episodes aired.

    As for the preview remaining in tact in re-airings of BW022, all it means is that no one bothered to edit the episode
    Really. You really think that, if they had no intention of ever airing the episodes, that they'd be so lazy as to not edit episodes with previews for them.

    If they wanted us to keep looking forward to the two-parter, surely they would be vocal about it. There is no reason for this kind of secrecy.
    Er, yeah, the wait for these episodes has been LONG, in case you haven't noticed. Do you really think that it would have been better for them to constantly tell us "Keep waiting for Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma! It's coming!" month after month while they didn't actually air it? Constantly repeating the promise while not acting upon it would have been WORSE.

    You're really giving the impression that you have no idea what you're talking about here.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 16th November 2012 at 11:34 PM.

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    I'll let AgentPierce counter your other points, but I have to get in on this one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post

    That's the point. As far as young viewers are concerned, Giovanni should have been properly introduced in the two-parter, but he wasn't due to the episodes not airing, and yet that didn't interfere with Operation Tempest. What difference does it make that Team Plasma are brand new characters? That just means that they could be introduced from scratch if the writers were at all interested in them still. The Plasma grunts in the two-parter didn't even look important.
    Um, what? Anyone who watched just about any episode of DP would have known about Giovanni from Meowth's fantasies, he appeared in-person with Matori in the finale, and he was present in BW001, BW002, BW004, BW005, BW006, BW007, BW009 and BW022 prior to the skipped episodes, in addition to appearing in BW095 prior to Operation Tempest. Those two episodes were never necessary to "introduce" Giovanni to anyone.

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    TV Tokyo promised to air them someday (Fact). Why would TV Tokyo be lying to their viewers? It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. Also, that two-parter is crucial to the overall story (Fact, again). I agree with AgentPierce, Pokemaniac24, and The Great Butler about the episodes. Just wait patiently, and you'll see for yourself. Don't jump into conclusions. That's all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    Those two episodes were never necessary to "introduce" Giovanni to anyone.
    Yep, exactly. And if Kein meant introduced to characters, again, Cilan seems to be the only one in Tempest who saw him in those episodes, and Tempest never had Cilan in a position that it would matter to reference that. He only saw Giovanni in Tempest toward the end, and by that point saying "Hey, that's the boss of Team Rocket!" would have been ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akuroma View Post
    TV Tokyo promised to air them someday (Fact).
    And before anyone chimes in with the whole "things could have changed; the promise might have been dropped", I must say that if that were the case, then TV Tokyo has done a piss-poor job at making sure that people gradually forget about the two-parter and the promise to re-air it, seeing as they keep the BW023 preview around, they did NOT remove the page summaries for BW025 and BW027 that have the promise on them, and they've very recently uploaded BW025 with the promise on screen to Hulu. And I once more stress that the promise specifically said that they'd air at a later date. That could be any time. The insistence of people to believe that they've been cancelled or banned just because it's taking so long to air them is ridiculous, as it was never suggested that they wouldn't take a long time to air. I hate the wait too, and will always think it ought to have been shorter, but I deal with it.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 16th November 2012 at 11:53 PM.

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