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Thread: Team Plasma and Pierce to potentially return?

  1. #1001
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    Looker coming back doesn't confirm anything about Team Plasma. Considering that Looker was introduced in the DP series like Cynthia and doesn't even appear in the B2W2 games (which are certainly more relevant than Black and White are at this point), he could easily investigate Team Rocket's activities rather than Team Plasma's. Perhaps Cynthia has informed him that Team Rocket are still at large in Kanto, or he went there in the first place after the Meteorite plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    And the notion that Ash leaving Unova after the League is stupid, since he didn't originally come to Unova for the League, he came with his mother and Professor Oak who had business reasons for coming there. If his mother isn't ready to leave, or if Iris and Cilan have stuff to do that he wants to stick around for, or if Team Plasma strikes, then he'll stay.
    Professor Oak and Delia have long since returned to Kanto. Ash isn't going to stay in Unova for Iris, Cilan or Team Plasma; he is always on the lookout for a new battle-oriented goal, and that usually entails not sticking in one place.

    And Team Rocket is returning....in an outside-the-anime TV event like, incidentally, that Livecaster was. Their time in the anime is still pretty much over.
    That interpretation makes no sense, especially as Team Rocket haven't left at all if you consider outside-the-anime appearances. The LiveCaster clearly implied that they would return to the show.

    Except that there is NO evidence that any progress has been made on Gen VI, let alone that it's going to be coming next year.
    What kind of evidence do you expect? Game Freak have always been secretive about the games they're developing. They've had 3DS development kits since early 2010; common sense dictates that they started developing Generation VI then just as they had started developing Black and White in late 2006.

    If Genesect were the main star of Movie 16, it wouldn't have been revealed an entire year before the movie premiere. Instead, we would have to wait to see it revealed in February, just as we did with Keldeo and Meloetta.

    As in the biggest crisis Unova has ever face thusfar.
    They're not going to use the "Unova's biggest crisis" billing again. Had they had a bigger plot in mind for Unova, they would have just described Operation Tempest as Team Rocket's biggest plan.
    Last edited by Kein; 17th November 2012 at 9:12 AM.

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    Good to see Looker is returning. I guess this pretty much confirms Team Plasma's return, eh?

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    Wait the two parter is airing?? OMG FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierce571 View Post
    I guess this pretty much confirms Team Plasma's return, eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Wait the two parter is airing?? OMG FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    No to both counts. This reminds me of people saying that Giovanni's return in Season 2 had to mean that Team Plasma and the Meteorite two-parter would follow suit. Looker is an individual character and is by no means exclusively associated with Team Plasma.

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    At least Looker's coming back. He's one of my favourite characters in the Pokemon franchise

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    No to both counts. This reminds me of people saying that Giovanni's return in Season 2 had to mean that Team Plasma and the Meteorite two-parter would follow suit. Looker is an individual character and is by no means exclusively associated with Team Plasma.
    But the difference with Giovanni is that Giovanni can be used for other things then Team Plasma like we saw with operation tempest. From what I have seen Looker only came to Unova because of Team Plasma. Since Team Rocket is gone and there isn't any other criminal organization in Unova he must be back for Team Plasma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierce571 View Post
    But the difference with Giovanni is that Giovanni can be used for other things then Team Plasma like we saw with operation tempest. From what I have seen Looker only came to Unova because of Team Plasma. Since Team Rocket is gone and there isn't any other criminal organization in Unova he must be back for Team Plasma
    As far as we know, Looker could return even for New Team Plasma. If they decided to not broadcast the episodes due to destruction scenes or whatever, they can simply scrap the "old" Team Plasma reference and focus on the newer one. In that way, Looker can return to investigate about a criminal organization (New Team Plasma) while merchandising Pokemon BW2 (Kyurem plot and whatever).
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 17th November 2012 at 12:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierce571 View Post
    From what I have seen Looker only came to Unova because of Team Plasma.
    Considering that he was clearly spying on Team Rocket, I don't see what makes you think that. Perhaps he was also interested in Team Plasma, but Team Rocket were already starting to be a big presence in Unova even then. For all we know Looker followed Giovanni to Kanto, either after the Meteorite plot or following Operation Tempest.

    Since Team Rocket is gone and there isn't any other criminal organization in Unova he must be back for Team Plasma
    We don't know that Ash is going to stay in Unova. The post-league saga doesn't have to adhere to the games, especially considering that Ash has already been to East Unova. There are no important locations in Unova left to explore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92
    In that way, Looker can return to investigate about a criminal organization (New Team Plasma) while merchandising Pokemon BW2 (Kyurem plot and whatever).
    I highly doubt it, as we've already seen Unova being frozen twice. It doesn't make for the writers to do that if they wanted to use the B2W2 Kyurem plot later on. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to advertise the Black and White plot instead, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    I highly doubt it, as we've already seen Unova being frozen twice. It doesn't make for the writers to do that if they wanted to use the B2W2 Kyurem plot later on. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to advertise the Black and White plot instead, either.
    It doesn't have to necessarily revolve around Kyurem. They can even mix up things, by putting Reshiram and Zekrom instead of Kyurem and New Team Plasma looking for them. They already distanced themselves from the Black/White plot, I wouldn't be surprised if they write a new plot for the anime. That's only speculation, of course. Only time can tell what is going to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    They can even mix up things, by putting Reshiram and Zekrom instead of Kyurem and New Team Plasma looking for them.
    But that would just create a mess of things. What would be the point of having the New Team Plasma do what their predecessors did in Black and White?

    They already distanced themselves from the Black/White plot, I wouldn't be surprised if they write a new plot for the anime.
    I wouldn't be surprised if they kept their distance from Team Plasma. They have Team Rocket for their original plots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    No to both counts. This reminds me of people saying that Giovanni's return in Season 2 had to mean that Team Plasma and the Meteorite two-parter would follow suit. Looker is an individual character and is by no means exclusively associated with Team Plasma.
    This. Looker coming back means something, but not necessarily that they're picking up the two-parter's plot again, or even that Plasma's coming back. Actually, the fact that it's a new episode makes it seem even less likely- what's Looker doing so soon after the two-parter this time when he disappeared for at least six months afterwards the first time? I think this is going to be something else.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Considering that he was clearly spying on Team Rocket, I don't see what makes you think that. Perhaps he was also interested in Team Plasma, but Team Rocket were already starting to be a big presence in Unova even then. For all we know Looker followed Giovanni to Kanto, either after the Meteorite plot or following Operation Tempest.
    Looker wasn't after Team Rocket. He was after Team Plasma. He was in the car pursuing them in daylight after they attacked the helicopter, which Ash and co. were on. Looker took Ash and co. with him, and went after Team Plasma. That's why he said, "It's them!" in the trailer. Looker's comeback means that Team Plasma is coming soon. It also explains why the two-parter will air soon. Remember, the two-parter is crucial to the overall story. They may have wanted Team Plasma to appear after the league, because of Team Rocket's presence in the Unova Region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    We don't know that Ash is going to stay in Unova. The post-league saga doesn't have to adhere to the games, especially considering that Ash has already been to East Unova. There are no important locations in Unova left to explore.
    Um, the Dragonspiral Tower, is one. The Giant Chasm is another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akuroma View Post
    Looker wasn't after Team Rocket. He was after Team Plasma. He was in the car pursuing them in daylight after they attacked the helicopter, which Ash and co. were on. Looker took Ash and co. with him, and went after Team Plasma. That's why he said, "It's them!" in the trailer.
    He was spying on Team Rocket before Team Plasma appeared. If that doesn't show he was interested in Team Rocket, I don't know what does; it also helps that he has a history with Jessie and James. Let's just agree that he was interested in both teams, but he could easily be tied to just one of them in the future. Only one of these teams has been promised to return to the show, and it isn't Team Plasma.

    Looker's comeback means that Team Plasma is coming soon.
    Nope. It merely makes the possibility more feasible than it was before.

    It also explains why the two-parter will air soon. Remember, the two-parter is crucial to the overall story.
    Had it been crucial to the overall story, it wouldn't have been ignored for so long.

    They may have wanted Team Plasma to appear after the league, because of Team Rocket's presence in the Unova Region.
    And yet the two-parter features Team Rocket very heavily, so the writers didn't mind focusing on both teams at least at one point.

    Um, the Dragonspiral Tower, is one. The Giant Chasm is another.
    They aren't important without Team Plasma; you're using circular logic. Also, the Giant Chasm would be redundant since we don't need to see Unova get frozen a third time.
    Last edited by Kein; 17th November 2012 at 5:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomper4 View Post
    Maybe Looker is investigating a bigger threat, maybe Kyurem.
    Which would be caused by Team Plasma. Looker investigates criminal activities; a Pokemon doing something of it's own accord isn't a crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Looker coming back doesn't confirm anything about Team Plasma. Considering that Looker was introduced in the DP series like Cynthia and doesn't even appear in the B2W2 games (which are certainly more relevant than Black and White are at this point), he could easily investigate Team Rocket's activities rather than Team Plasma's. Perhaps Cynthia has informed him that Team Rocket are still at large in Kanto, or he went there in the first place after the Meteorite plot.
    OK, you are really grasping at straws here. Black & White are still as relevant as B2W2 for the anime, Looker investigated Team Plasma in the games and was almost certainly doing so in the postponed two-parter, Ash likely isn't going back to Kanto so soon, and above all: Team Rocket is not coming back in a major role. They've been written out of BW already.

    The LiveCaster clearly implied that they would return to the show.
    I don't usually agree with Dogasu, but he was right on the money with this post from Bulbagarden:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu
    Nyasu promised that they will definitely come back during last week's Live Caster segment. This is true. It is also true, however, that for the past two months all of the promotion for the two-parter we just had - the special poster (they don't make one of those for every two-parter!), the Pokemon Smash coverage of the Rockets, the stuff on the websites - promised that this two-parter will definitely be the Rocket-Dan's final battle. There weren't any qualifiers in there about this being the "final battle in Isshu" or "the final battle...for now!," either. And all the majority of us have been talking about these past two months, in regards to these episodes, is how the Rocket-Dan is ending. And yet...all that is negated by one line said after the show? No. You can't just assume that we've been lied to the past two months just because Nyasu said that one line at the end of the show.
    Next.

    Considering that he was clearly spying on Team Rocket, I don't see what makes you think that.
    Er, HUH? This magazine scan from before the postponing flat-out says Looker was after Team Plasma; that's why he's detailed in the section about Team Plasma! His one line in the trailer was "It's them!"....in response to Team Plasma. Where the Hell did you EVER get the impression that he was "spying on Team Rocket?" Really, you are in serious denial here.

    We don't know that Ash is going to stay in Unova. The post-league saga doesn't have to adhere to the games, especially considering that Ash has already been to East Unova. There are no important locations in Unova left to explore.
    We don't know he's going to stay in Unova, and yet you seem pretty damn sure he's leaving.

    And the writers could just make up new places in Unova like they've done with every other damn region. I mean, "Kanto Battle Frontier" was nothing BUT made-up locations.

    He was spying on Team Rocket before Team Plasma appeared. If that doesn't show he was interested in Team Rocket, I don't know what does
    Again, show me WHERE it EVER said he was spying on Team Rocket. Since y'know, that magazine article said otherwise.

    Professor Juniper and Officer Jenny were the ones responding to Team Rocket. Looker was after Team Plasma. They all met up in the Desert Resort because both teams had come there.

    And yet the two-parter features Team Rocket very heavily, so the writers didn't mind focusing on both teams at least at one point.
    Right, but that was just for that one time. Do you really believe that, had the two-parter not been postponed, the anime would have gone on having Team Rocket and Team Plasma together, always clashing? That would just be a complete retread of Team Aqua and Team Magma, and it would cheapen the entire conflict over the Meteonite by having it just be "the first of many cases of Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma". They had both teams for just that one time, then they decided to focus on just one at a time. And Team Rocket's time is done.

    Had it been crucial to the overall story, it wouldn't have been ignored for so long.
    It's crucial so far as Team Plasma is concerned, which is why it's going to be shown now after being ignored for so long: Team Plasma's coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyichigo View Post
    This. Looker coming back means something, but not necessarily that they're picking up the two-parter's plot again, or even that Plasma's coming back. Actually, the fact that it's a new episode makes it seem even less likely- what's Looker doing so soon after the two-parter this time when he disappeared for at least six months afterwards the first time? I think this is going to be something else.
    "So soon"? The two-parter is NOT being relocated in time just because it airs close to Looker's return; it'll still be BW023 and BW024!

    Honestly, it's so absurd that people like you and Kein want the two-parter to really be "cancelled" or Team Plasma to not be in the anime, even when facts say otherwise.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 17th November 2012 at 7:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Ash likely isn't going back to Kanto so soon,
    Based on what? Ash has never stayed in a region after being finished with its league. He may or may not return to Kanto, but I see no compelling reason to think that the writers would have him stay in Unova after making sure to cover East Unova before the league.

    and above all: Team Rocket is not coming back in a major role. They've been written out of BW already.

    I don't usually agree with Dogasu, but he was right on the money with this post from Bulbagarden:
    The fact that you share Dogasu's view that the LiveCaster promise was an outright lie is fairly hypocritical on your part, considering how much weight you've given TV Tokyo's long-outdated statement, let alone an unsubstantiated claim by a French person who purports to work for TPCi and yet posts on a fansite.

    You're welcome to read what I told Dogasu.

    Er, HUH? This magazine scan from before the postponing says Looker was after Team Plasma; that's why he's detailed in the section about Team Plasma! His one line in the trailer was "It's them!"....in response to Team Plasma. Where the Hell did you EVER get the impression that he was "clearly spying on Team Rocket?" Really, you are in serious denial here.
    He was under disguise at Team Rocket's party before Team Plasma even showed their faces. The question is: What makes you think that he was only interested in Team Plasma? Why would he be oblivious of the team that were actually up to trouble? Team Plasma merely reacted to Team Rocket's mischief.

    We don't know he's going to stay in Unova, and yet you seem pretty damn sure he's leaving.
    Because covering East Unova before the league wouldn't make sense otherwise.

    And the writers could just make up new places in Unova like they've done with every other damn region. I mean, "Kanto Battle Frontier" was nothing BUT made-up locations.
    The Battle Frontier is also a clear example of a post-league saga that involved a change of setting. The main attraction was the Hoenn Battle Frontier, and yet it was moved to Kanto for a change of pace.

    Again, show me WHERE it EVER said he was spying on Team Rocket. Since y'know, that magazine article said otherwise.
    Do you even know what that article said? According to Dogasu, it barely revealed anything. At any rate, I am not arguing that Looker was necessarily more interested in Team Rocket than in Team Plasma, but he was definitely not oblivious of Team Rocket or he wouldn't have worked alongside Juniper.

    I think it is entirely possible that Looker arrested the Plasma grunts at the end of the two-parter, which explains why we haven't heard of Team Plasma since. After that, he could have followed Giovanni to Kanto. It certainly makes more sense than both Team Plasma and Looker laying low in Unova while Team Rocket were going about their business.

    I see no reason why Looker , who works for the International Police, shouldn't be interested in stopping Team Rocket once and for all, considering that they've posed a threat to several regions by now.

    Professor Juniper and Officer Jenny were the ones responding to Team Rocket. Looker was after Team Plasma. They all met up in the Desert Resort because both teams had come there.
    Team Plasma wouldn't have been there if it hadn't been for Team Rocket. You're making it seem that Looker just happened to run into Team Rocket.

    They had both teams for just that one time, then they decided to focus on just one at a time. And Team Rocket's time is done.
    I agree that Team Plasma was never supposed to appear after the two-parter. I just don't see any reason why that would change now when Team Rocket are still at large and we've been given sufficient reason to expect their return, which is more than I can say for Team Plasma.

    Honestly, it's so absurd that people like you and Kein want the two-parter to really be "cancelled" or Team Plasma to not be in the anime, even when facts say otherwise.
    I think it's absurd that you let you your wishful thinking cloud your judgment to the point where you can't consider any interpretation of the "facts" but your own. There are many fans who don't expect to see the two-parter, and it has nothing to do with our personal preference.
    Last edited by Kein; 17th November 2012 at 7:48 PM.

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    @Kein I suggest you take your ignorance somewhere else. All you're doing is trying to force your personal views off as fact when it's really just your opinion. You're grasping at straws and nothing more.
    Last edited by HatersGonnaHate; 17th November 2012 at 7:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    All you're doing is trying to force your personal views off as fact when it's really just your opinion. You're grasping at straws and nothing more.
    I'm doing nothing of the sort; I am not the one pretending to have confirmation of my personal theory. Learn to deal with other people's opinions and stop being fueled by personal bias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    I'm doing nothing of the sort; I am not the one pretending to have confirmation of my personal theory. Learn to deal with other people's opinions and stop being fueled by personal bias.
    which is exactly what you're doing. Where's your proof? At least the other users have evidence supporting their claims, all you're doing is assuming with no evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    which is exactly what you're doing. Where's your proof? At least the other users have evidence supporting their claims, all you're doing is assuming with no evidence.
    Everyone's evidence is circumstantial and nothing more, but I'd say that the promise involving Team is more relevant than something written nearly two years ago, let alone the lack of promise regarding Team Plasma's continued role. The only real "proof" we have to go on is the fact that Looker is going to appear next year, which doesn't have to mean anything about Team Plasma or the two-parter.

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    Well, forum fighting aside, I'm glad there's signs of life from Team Plasma again. By far, I'd love to see them crash the league (which would explain why the Ash and Trip battle is out of the way so fast). Looker could be there in his BW1 capacity, and since the League was ruined (and perhaps put off to a later date), Ash volunteers to help Looker find the Seven Sages, who I've always assumed would fill some kind pseudo-filler season role, like the Frontier Brains. Thus Ash has a reason to stay in Unova. Also, I honestly wouldn't mind Team Plasma staying as Old Team Plasma for this series because that incarnation is much more distinct compared to Team Rocket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    At least the other users have evidence supporting their claims.
    No they haven't, Emolga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thing View Post
    No they haven't, Emolga.
    So you didn't see the link that confirms Looker returning early next year? I realize that the obvious eludes you on a regular basis but try opening your eyes more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    So you didn't see the link that confirms Looker returning early next year? I realize that the obvious eludes you on a regular basis but try opening your eyes more.
    You said evidence. I didn't realise Looker only works to stop Team Plasma. (fun fact he doesn't, he's a member of the international police)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thing View Post
    You said evidence. I didn't realise Looker only works to stop Team Plasma. (fun fact he doesn't, he's a member of the international police)
    It is supporting evidence which has more basis for a reasonable conclusion than someone who doesn't have anything. Dur da dur!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    It is supporting evidence which has more basis for a reasonable conclusion than someone who doesn't have anything. Dur da dur!
    It doesn't support Team Plasma's return any more than it does Team Rocket's, unless you go out of your way to see what you want to see.

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