Community POTW #69

[Luthor]

for a laugh heres a pre-evo corner suggestion

Combee
Ability-honey gather(move tutor moves currently illegal with hustle)
item-focus sash
Endeavor
air cutter/bug bite/swift
ominous wind
tailwind/string shot

basic idea behind this gimmick set is you use endeavor when combee is taken down to 1hp(focus sash) assuming stealth rock isn't out.if you actually get a second attack against you opponent you use either air cutter/bug bite/swift or ominous wind (combees only way of boosting).tailwind/string shot is generally just so combee can do something supporting. Tailwind would probably be better .

other options( or the only other moves it can learn lol)
sweet scent- decreases evasion might be of use.
mud slap-hits steels and rock types and may lower accuracy but still only has a power of 20 so not too useful
snore-not useful as most don't bother putting it to sleep.
gust-weaker than air cutter

Not a good movepool but it is a way to use any male combee you've got.

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

So #69 is a female-only bee...

Vespiquen is relatively unchanged from last Gen as a neglected yet surprisingly bulky Bug/Fly. She's not bad...it's more like she can't DO anything well.

Otherwise, you should have a core of:
Attack Order
Heal Order/Roost
Toxic
filler move

Starting Gen 5, I suppose Vespiquen can play a more offensively oriented role as a bulky sweeper, but I wouldn't highly recommend it:
Leftovers/Iron Ball/Flying Gem/Berry
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpDef
Hone Claws
Attack Order
Roost/Heal Order
Substitute, Return, Fling, Acrobatics, Natural Gift, Hidden Power

You can also do Choice Band, but I really REALLY don't recommend that. With Vespiquen's junk Speed, it also allows you to run a Speed-lowering Nature without getting too affected by it, should you opt to run mixed.

Combee isn't anything spectacular, but I've seen it get interesting results as a lead outside of LC before, mostly with Sash, Endeavor, Tailwind. Drifloon can do more or less the same, though. Gligar is bulkier and speedier. Natu has a better Ability. Yanma...is probably banned.

[philzone]

I actually used both Vespiquen and Clefable as set up walls in gen 4 OU with decent results. Biggest problem is the set I used had no attacks and was walled by steel and poison types. Vesp was my physical wall and Clef my special wall.

Bold Nature
252 HP/252 Def
Pressure
Defend Order
Heal Order/Roost
Toxic
Protect/Confuse Ray

*edit: hold item was lefties. totally forgot to put it

I was almost about to post a set like this. It is similar to the one i wrote, but here are the counters for this set:every single steel type pokemon could destroy this set. Skarmory and magnezone are your main counters. Skarmory wipe it with drill peck, and magnezones sp att and thunderbolt, goodbye vespiquen. i would suggest putting hp fighting or fire instead in the 4th move slot, to counter steels

[philzone]

Separate post for the little cup
Combee. Loved this. Had one.lv 20 and could take on gardenia's roserade 1st time.
Moves.
Bug bite
Air cutter
Swift
Ominous wind
Relaxed.
Evs:252 hp,252 def,4 sp def
Item:evolite
Ability:hustle.
Not a good move pool, but hey,here it is. Walls many pokemon in the little cup. Here it chips away at the foes health. Absolutely awfull move pool. Don't bother

[nanoomega]

I was almost about to post a set like this. It is similar to the one i wrote, but here are the counters for this set:every single steel type pokemon could destroy this set. Skarmory and magnezone are your main counters. Skarmory wipe it with drill peck, and magnezones sp att and thunderbolt, goodbye vespiquen. i would suggest putting hp fighting or fire instead in the 4th move slot, to counter steels

To be honest the set was from when I first started playing competitively. I would just switch to my clef with flamethrower for steel types, maybe being able to set up some cosmic powers in the process.

[YourPermanentRecord631]

Don't bother using Vespiquen in OU. too many fast, offensive threats. Don't use it in doubles either. Weak to rock slide, heat wave, blizzard, and discharge yeh Vespiquen and her subjects are flat out terrible.

[menametlg]

Basic Set
@Left-overs
Pressure
252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SDef [ Impish ]
- Attack Order
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defend Order / HP [ Ground ] / Taunt

Since Vespiqueen doesn't improved at all, Tank set is still the best set so far.

Offensive
@Flying Gem
Pressure
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def [ Brave ]
- Acrobatics
- Attack Order / U-Turn / Slash
- Confuse Ray / Captivate
- Pursuit

This set focuses on Attack. Acrobatics + Flying Gem + STAB = Crazy Offense. However this can only be use once. For the feelers, Attack Order and slash are both offensive one while U-Turn scout you out while it deal great damage. Confuse Ray and Captivate are like " force switch out or fight like a s**t " while Pursuit damage hard before they can even scout out.

Other options...

Destiny Bond - works best with Trick Room sweeper. If not, say no.

Venoshock - offensive partner with toxic but it's a feeler so say no.

[jireh the provider]

all the sets are pretty much said. But I think her attack order could be even more dangerous on Pokemon Conquest. Just like multi hitting moves that are weak in main series but powerful on Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.

Always have the order attacks.

[Soperman]

Personal Moveset
Pressure w/ Charti Berry
Attack Order
Aerial Ace/Gust
Power Gem
Confuse Ray/Toxic

4th gen Tutor:
Attack Order
Aerial Ace/Gust
Power Gem
Confuse Ray/Toxic/Endeavor/Tailwind

Partners:
Trick Room Users
Fighting and/or Ground-Types against Rock and Steel-Types

Countering:
High PP Rock moves like Power Gem and Smack Down; other rock moves are riskier with Vespiquen's Pressure.
Defense Curl and Rollout-users with high attack like Sandslash, Donphan, Emboar, Qwilfish, and Wailord.
Steel-Types, espically Aggron, Bastiodon, and Probopass, are useful with its resistance and immunity to poison.
Other Strong, High-PP moves like: Discharge, Thunderbolt, Thunderpunch, Fire Punch, Flame Burst, Lava Plume, Aurora Beam, Ice Ball, Ice Punch, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Drill Peck, Fly, Pluck, and Wing Attack.
Will-o-wisp users with high Sp Defense like Dusknoir.

You clearly don't know competitive battling very well.
First of all, you don't have EVs .__.
Secondly, Gust has terrible power, and Endeavor works more as a gimmick than anything else.
Why would high PP moves be risky? In the world of competitive battling, PP is rarely ever a problem.
Also, Smack Down has a low base power, so we never use that either. You want high base power, regardless of whether or not it has a lot of PP
Defense Curl and Rollout is another gimmick. Nobody ever uses it.
No to be rude or anything, but next time, do some research about competitive pokemon battling before posting on a competitive pokemon thread.
If you really need help, check out Smogon.com. They've got tons of stuff.

[Zachmac]

If anything should be mentioned, it is it's terrible defensive typing. Well, it's x4 resistance to fighting is nice, expect for the fact that just about every fighting type learns stone edge. It also resist EQ, except that it's weak to EQ's favorite coverage move in, yet again, Stone Edge. Spikes and Toxic Spikes? That doesn't matter if you lose half your health to stealth rock. It can wall grass types I guess, but that's about it, and there are probably better grass counters out there.

I'll give some ways to counter it. Besides the obvious stone edge, it's set up bait for just about any living steel type. Heck, almost any steel types can counter it, especially if they have a move like Swords Dance or know toxic. And speaking of which, toxic is the queen's bane. If you do use it at all, it's best with some heal bell support.

Scizor is my favorite counter for it, x4 resisting it's STAB, immune to toxic, and can easily get to +6.

There is gonna bee a lot of shitty puns. Just saying now. I don't have a lot of sets to post sadly. Never used this thing, although i can say hazards will need to be off the field. Just saying.

I see what you did there.

Offensive
@Flying Gem
Pressure
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def [ Brave ]
- Acrobatics
- Attack Order / U-Turn / Slash
- Confuse Ray / Captivate
- Pursuit

U-turn on Vespiquen. Haha.

Okay, I'll admit I used U-turn Ninjask once apon a time, but still.

Don't use U-turn on it, because of a little rock move known as.....if you haven't guessed it, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be in the competitive section.

[philzone]

Partners for vespiquen.
Anything with flamethrower or surf. So hydreigon is good. Steel types beware. Also latios uses both, and packs quite an impact. Trick room is where vespiquen comes in useful,so bronzong,and slowking/slowbro are good. Also, ice or electric types, so jolteon and glaceon damage the flying types. Haxorus has mold breaker, so many rock types with sturdy need to watch out.

[sbktdreed]

You clearly don't know competitive battling very well.
First of all, you don't have EVs .__.
Secondly, Gust has terrible power, and Endeavor works more as a gimmick than anything else.
Why would high PP moves be risky? In the world of competitive battling, PP is rarely ever a problem.
Also, Smack Down has a low base power, so we never use that either. You want high base power, regardless of whether or not it has a lot of PP
Defense Curl and Rollout is another gimmick. Nobody ever uses it.
No to be rude or anything, but next time, do some research about competitive pokemon battling before posting on a competitive pokemon thread.
If you really need help, check out Smogon.com. They've got tons of stuff.

FYI, I'd been playing and researching long enough to set up some good ideas.
First of all, I focus on moves than EVs, espically early in the game.
Next, I'm referring to LOW PP-moves like Stone Edge and Fire Blast; espically when Vespiquen is using Protect, Heal Order, Defend Order, or other moves that forces you to use more times than needed. When that goes down, you're out of luck; espically Choice-holding or Torment-infected users.
Gust can be used against Fly-users, but I understand.
On top of being a rock-type for the 4x weakness, it's wide open for ground moves.
DC to Rollout increase the power and can hit multiple times with increase intensity.
Endeavor can be useful against Steel or Poison-Types, espically when status moves like confusion, poison, or attract doesn't work.
As for everything else, I'll make the changes.

[chap196]

Counters
Stealth Rock is one of Vespiquen weakness which make Vespiquen loss half of its HP for free. Taunt make Vespiquen can't use any status move which really make Vespiquen a lot badder by using only Attack move and cannot use support move for Vespiquen like Defend Order, Heal Order etc which make Vespiquen a lot easier to defeat. Burn and Badly Poison make Vespiquen a bit weaker because Burn will lower Attack Order base power and Badly Poison will make Vespiquen can't stay in the battle for a long time. Steel type Pokemon can resist nearly every Vespiquen move (except for Hidden Power Fire,Fighting or Ground), also Steel type Pokemon can avoid Toxic and it can resist both Bug and Flying type move, so Steel Pokemon can kill Vespiquen very easily.

[Sala-imence]

OFFENSIVE Vespiquen

Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe
Ability: Unnerve
Moveset:
- Attack Order
- Aerial Ace
- Pursuit
- Giga Impact

Here's the rundown. Thanks to Choice Band, your moves have awesome power. Giga Impact to go out with a bang. If you think your foe does not want t fight you, pursuit those switchers. The other moves are STAB and will do loads of damage. Especially Attack Order, which is bug type leaf blade.

[Ilan]

FYI, I'd been playing and researching long enough to set up some good ideas.
First of all, I focus on moves than EVs, espically early in the game.
Next, I'm referring to LOW PP-moves like Stone Edge and Fire Blast; espically when Vespiquen is using Protect, Heal Order, Defend Order, or other moves that forces you to use more times than needed. When that goes down, you're out of luck; espically Choice-holding or Torment-infected users.
Gust can be used against Fly-users, but I understand.
On top of being a rock-type for the 4x weakness, it's wide open for ground moves.
DC to Rollout increase the power and can hit multiple times with increase intensity.
Endeavor can be useful against Steel or Poison-Types, espically when status moves like confusion, poison, or attract doesn't work.
As for everything else, I'll make the changes.

You don't put EV= you don't know anything not trying to be rude either...

You are not good at giving sets..

People plz don't mention ANY OU pokemon if you are using it in OU you LOVE losing.

No Giga Impact also..

@philzone: that what I said try to not mention UU or OU pokemon then all beat vespiquen

[chap196]

For Sala-imence
Life Orb might be better than Choice Band for this set because if you use Pursuit when you know when your opponent will switch their Pokemon then after they switch their Pokemon you still need to use Pursuit over and over again which is not good because Pursuit has only 40 base power and if your opponent switch to dark type then you need to change your Pokemon immediately, also don't put Giga Impact because after you use Giga Impact then Vespiquen will have a lot of chance to get OHKO by other Pokemon because of recharge. Life Orb will not force you to use same move if you don't switch your Pokemon, so Attack Order and U-Turn will work better, otherwise this set is pretty good because it avoid one of Vespiquen weakness, Taunt because there were no Support for this set.

[Kraleck]

Question: Will Iron Ball negate Vespiquen's Flying Type before or after Stealth Rock's damage kicks in or just make you hittable by Ground Type Moves? With the mechanic tweaks and changes from 4th to 5th Gen, I'm still confused on a few things...

[pikadon92]

Iron Ball only negates immunity to ground moves by type or ability.

I have another question: Does Eviolite work on male combee? Not that I want to create a moveset for it anyway.

[philzone]

Iron Ball only negates immunity to ground moves by type or ability.

I have another question: Does Eviolite work on male combee? Not that I want to create a moveset for it anyway.

Yes it does, see my little cup set

[ApertureScience]

VESPIQUEN!!!!!ILOVEITOMGIMSOHAPPYYYYYY!!!!

Okay, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I will say that Vespiquen, while having a few glaring weaknesses, (Hello there, stealth rock) it can be a true annoyance to the opponents team. With duel 120 defenses, she can sponge anything not named stone edge with ease. However, with Terrakion rising in popularity, it can be a true pain to even reach the field after SR damage.

Abilities
Pressure- A decent ability which doubles the amount of PP used. It fits her well with her stallish nature.
Unerve- Prevents the opponent from eating their berry. Thanks a lot Game Freak.

I will not bee using any bee puns.
Vespiquen (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 168 HP / 184 Def / 156 SDef
Bold/Calm Nature
- Defend Order
- Heal Order/Roost
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While rare, Defend Order can help it survive a few attacks it regularly wouldn't, namely Fire Blast. Heal Order is a major asset, allowing her to heal off damage from SR. However, Roost is sometimes prefered because of being able to drop the extra weakness to rock. Toxic allows some damage to occur, while Hidden Power Fire takes out the steel types who are immune to Toxic.

Pre-Evolution Corner

Don't even think about it. What are you even doing here! This is COMBEE. You know, the pokemon who learns 3 moves? And all of which don't even help it? I'm starting to wonder why I even put this here.

Counters

Anything with Stone Edge really. Conkeldurr is an amazing example.

[cookies kill you]

Queen of the bees
Impish
lefties
252hp/252def
pressure
defend order
heal order
toxic
attack order/protect

[Missingno. Master]

Three Bee Insanity
Combee@Focus Sash
Timid nature
Honey Gather
252 Spd/252 Sp. Atk/4 HP
~Endeavor
~Tailwind
~Mud-Slap
~Air Cutter

I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "Combee? Combee?? COMBEE??? Is this guy off his meds?!" Combee is a large pile of crap, true enough. But it's a large pile of crap with better Speed than its evolution and a handful of support moves, too, so pay attention- you might just learn something. The idea behind this set is as follows. Turn 1; Combee takes a large hit, survives with Focus Sash, and uses Tailwind. Next turn, Combee likely outspeeds the foe and uses Endeavor, bringing foe to one HP as they KO Combee. Then you send out your Flame Charge Chandelure (or anything else that uses Flame Charge or Charge Beam as a setup move). Starting to get the idea? Mud-Slap is there in case your opponent sees what you're doing and tries to set up on you. The accuracy drops are a great way to facilitate a switch, and it's not even blocked by Taunt. Air Cutter is STAB and filler.

Item is essential. Ability is the only one legal with every single move in this set- in fact, it's the only one legal on Combee, period.


Other options:
*Ominous Wind can net some stat boosts, but more often than not they won't be of much help. All of Combee's non-Speed stats suck balls.
*Bug Bite, though not exactly helped out by Combee's paltry base 30 Attack, can foil some berry-based plans.
*Sweet Scent is a decent option over Mud-Slap if the attacker you're helping to set up has some particularly inaccurate moves.

Abilities:
*Honey Gather: After a battle, provided it's not already holding something, Combee has a chance of picking up Honey. Absolutely useless in battle, though it can screw with Trace abuse.
*Hustle: Combee's Hidden Ability. Not legal yet, but it's not really an issue. Powers up Combee's physical moves but makes them less accurate. It might sound like a DW Combee would make for a semi-decent, albeit gimmicky, physical attacker. It does sound like that, until you realize that Combee's only physical move is Bug Bite. Even when this becomes legal, stick with Honey Gather.

Partners:
Any sweeper that relies on Flame Charge to boost its Speed, such as Chandelure, or a gimmicky Larvesta set.

Counters:
A timely Taunt shuts Combee's little sting operation down before it starts. If your opponent doesn't lead with Combee, Stealth Rock ruins it completely.

Opinion:
A cool concept. I actually prefer it to Vespiquen. You also gotta feel sorry for male Combee- the females get to evolve, but the males are stuck in an immature form forever. And ever. And ever. And ever.

Prediction for next week:
Unown.

[Big Brother]

Toxic Staller
252 Hp/ 128 defense/ 128 sp defense
Nature: Relaxed or Sassy
Ability: Pressure
Toxic
Roost/ Heal Order
Defend Order
Protect

[Kraleck]

Iron Ball only negates immunity to ground moves by type or ability.

Thanks so much. Two more questions: How do Doubles and Triples calculate EFA Move (Enemy-Field-Attacking) damage? Is it still a 50/50 split for Doubles (like 3rd & 4th Gen) with Rock Slide, Heat Wave, etc.?

If so, Vespiquen's NS Weaknesses (normal-strength a.k.a. 2x Effective) to Heat Wave, Blizzard, etc. will be less severe in Multi, but Rock Slide, Discharge, and others will still hurt her a bit.

[Charizard Lizzy]

Thanks so much. Two more questions: How do Doubles and Triples calculate EFA Move (Enemy-Field-Attacking) damage? Is it still a 50/50 split for Doubles (like 3rd & 4th Gen) with Rock Slide, Heat Wave, etc.?

If so, Vespiquen's NS Weaknesses (normal-strength a.k.a. 2x Effective) to Heat Wave, Blizzard, etc. will be less severe in Multi, but Rock Slide, Discharge, and others will still hurt her a bit.

I think they might be reduced to 75% power in doubles and triples; not completely positive, but otherwise the rule should still apply.