Community POTW #69

[chap196]

For Sala-imence
Life Orb might be better than Choice Band for this set because if you use Pursuit when you know when your opponent will switch their Pokemon then after they switch their Pokemon you still need to use Pursuit over and over again which is not good because Pursuit has only 40 base power and if your opponent switch to dark type then you need to change your Pokemon immediately, also don't put Giga Impact because after you use Giga Impact then Vespiquen will have a lot of chance to get OHKO by other Pokemon because of recharge. Life Orb will not force you to use same move if you don't switch your Pokemon, so Attack Order and U-Turn will work better, otherwise this set is pretty good because it avoid one of Vespiquen weakness, Taunt because there were no Support for this set.

[Kraleck]

Question: Will Iron Ball negate Vespiquen's Flying Type before or after Stealth Rock's damage kicks in or just make you hittable by Ground Type Moves? With the mechanic tweaks and changes from 4th to 5th Gen, I'm still confused on a few things...

[pikadon92]

Iron Ball only negates immunity to ground moves by type or ability.

I have another question: Does Eviolite work on male combee? Not that I want to create a moveset for it anyway.

[philzone]

Iron Ball only negates immunity to ground moves by type or ability.

I have another question: Does Eviolite work on male combee? Not that I want to create a moveset for it anyway.

Yes it does, see my little cup set

[ApertureScience]

VESPIQUEN!!!!!ILOVEITOMGIMSOHAPPYYYYYY!!!!

Okay, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I will say that Vespiquen, while having a few glaring weaknesses, (Hello there, stealth rock) it can be a true annoyance to the opponents team. With duel 120 defenses, she can sponge anything not named stone edge with ease. However, with Terrakion rising in popularity, it can be a true pain to even reach the field after SR damage.

Abilities
Pressure- A decent ability which doubles the amount of PP used. It fits her well with her stallish nature.
Unerve- Prevents the opponent from eating their berry. Thanks a lot Game Freak.

I will not bee using any bee puns.
Vespiquen (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 168 HP / 184 Def / 156 SDef
Bold/Calm Nature
- Defend Order
- Heal Order/Roost
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While rare, Defend Order can help it survive a few attacks it regularly wouldn't, namely Fire Blast. Heal Order is a major asset, allowing her to heal off damage from SR. However, Roost is sometimes prefered because of being able to drop the extra weakness to rock. Toxic allows some damage to occur, while Hidden Power Fire takes out the steel types who are immune to Toxic.

Pre-Evolution Corner

Don't even think about it. What are you even doing here! This is COMBEE. You know, the pokemon who learns 3 moves? And all of which don't even help it? I'm starting to wonder why I even put this here.

Counters

Anything with Stone Edge really. Conkeldurr is an amazing example.

[cookies kill you]

Queen of the bees
Impish
lefties
252hp/252def
pressure
defend order
heal order
toxic
attack order/protect

[Missingno. Master]

Three Bee Insanity
Combee@Focus Sash
Timid nature
Honey Gather
252 Spd/252 Sp. Atk/4 HP
~Endeavor
~Tailwind
~Mud-Slap
~Air Cutter

I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "Combee? Combee?? COMBEE??? Is this guy off his meds?!" Combee is a large pile of crap, true enough. But it's a large pile of crap with better Speed than its evolution and a handful of support moves, too, so pay attention- you might just learn something. The idea behind this set is as follows. Turn 1; Combee takes a large hit, survives with Focus Sash, and uses Tailwind. Next turn, Combee likely outspeeds the foe and uses Endeavor, bringing foe to one HP as they KO Combee. Then you send out your Flame Charge Chandelure (or anything else that uses Flame Charge or Charge Beam as a setup move). Starting to get the idea? Mud-Slap is there in case your opponent sees what you're doing and tries to set up on you. The accuracy drops are a great way to facilitate a switch, and it's not even blocked by Taunt. Air Cutter is STAB and filler.

Item is essential. Ability is the only one legal with every single move in this set- in fact, it's the only one legal on Combee, period.


Other options:
*Ominous Wind can net some stat boosts, but more often than not they won't be of much help. All of Combee's non-Speed stats suck balls.
*Bug Bite, though not exactly helped out by Combee's paltry base 30 Attack, can foil some berry-based plans.
*Sweet Scent is a decent option over Mud-Slap if the attacker you're helping to set up has some particularly inaccurate moves.

Abilities:
*Honey Gather: After a battle, provided it's not already holding something, Combee has a chance of picking up Honey. Absolutely useless in battle, though it can screw with Trace abuse.
*Hustle: Combee's Hidden Ability. Not legal yet, but it's not really an issue. Powers up Combee's physical moves but makes them less accurate. It might sound like a DW Combee would make for a semi-decent, albeit gimmicky, physical attacker. It does sound like that, until you realize that Combee's only physical move is Bug Bite. Even when this becomes legal, stick with Honey Gather.

Partners:
Any sweeper that relies on Flame Charge to boost its Speed, such as Chandelure, or a gimmicky Larvesta set.

Counters:
A timely Taunt shuts Combee's little sting operation down before it starts. If your opponent doesn't lead with Combee, Stealth Rock ruins it completely.

Opinion:
A cool concept. I actually prefer it to Vespiquen. You also gotta feel sorry for male Combee- the females get to evolve, but the males are stuck in an immature form forever. And ever. And ever. And ever.

Prediction for next week:
Unown.

[Big Brother]

Toxic Staller
252 Hp/ 128 defense/ 128 sp defense
Nature: Relaxed or Sassy
Ability: Pressure
Toxic
Roost/ Heal Order
Defend Order
Protect

[Kraleck]

Iron Ball only negates immunity to ground moves by type or ability.

Thanks so much. Two more questions: How do Doubles and Triples calculate EFA Move (Enemy-Field-Attacking) damage? Is it still a 50/50 split for Doubles (like 3rd & 4th Gen) with Rock Slide, Heat Wave, etc.?

If so, Vespiquen's NS Weaknesses (normal-strength a.k.a. 2x Effective) to Heat Wave, Blizzard, etc. will be less severe in Multi, but Rock Slide, Discharge, and others will still hurt her a bit.

[Charizard Lizzy]

Thanks so much. Two more questions: How do Doubles and Triples calculate EFA Move (Enemy-Field-Attacking) damage? Is it still a 50/50 split for Doubles (like 3rd & 4th Gen) with Rock Slide, Heat Wave, etc.?

If so, Vespiquen's NS Weaknesses (normal-strength a.k.a. 2x Effective) to Heat Wave, Blizzard, etc. will be less severe in Multi, but Rock Slide, Discharge, and others will still hurt her a bit.

I think they might be reduced to 75% power in doubles and triples; not completely positive, but otherwise the rule should still apply.

[philzone]

Toxic Staller
252 Hp/ 128 defense/ 128 sp defense
Nature: Relaxed or Sassy
Ability: Pressure
Toxic
Roost/ Heal Order
Defend Order
Protect

Only one problem with this set, steels wall it like there is no tomorrow. Hp fire or hp fighting instead of protect. I see you are trying a staller, but steels hurt if you go against one. Suitable item here would be leftovers for health regain.
Partners, claydoll rapid spins all the stealth rocks away, and any other rapid spinners.

[tropiuslover]

[haven't thought of a name]
-Swagger
-Defend Order
-Attack Order
-Power Gem
Item Attached: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs and Nature:
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

Swagger is a move that works great on Vespiquen as its Defense stat is very high and Defend Order raises Vespiquen's defensive stats even further while its opponent is confused. Attack Order is Vespiquen's strongest STAB move and Power Gem kills off Fire and Ice types.

[tomjames1966]

Vespiquen is pokemon who sucked from the start with poor typing, a limited movepool and a weakness to the ever common Stealth rock. Vespiquen finds it hard to make niche for its self. However with no Stealth Rock up Vespiquen can serve as reasonible wall. But watch out for Rock type moves.

Struggle Bee.
-Toxic
-Substitute
-Heal Order
-Struggle Bug
252HP/252Def/6SpDef

This set should be used for long games, basicly you set up Toxic, use Substitute and then Struggle Bug to you hearts content. Struggle Bug also stops you from being Tuant-bait and lowers your oppents Sp.Atking capabilatys. Heal order is there to provide recovery. Never use this pokemon against Rock or Steel types or anything that might have a Rock type move.

[philzone]

Skarmory laughs at vespiquen. It resists bug moves and flying moves. Vespiquen needs to look out for steels. So you want hp fire or fighting.
Also, it is ok if it is used as an attacker, not a wall, with 80/80 att.

[Aurath8]

Counters
A bug/flying type. This is gonna be an easy week.
As almost everyone has said. Stealth Rock cripples Vespiquen, chipping half its health for every switch-in. If she's running 252 HP, she'll be KOed after 2 switch-ins. That means that a battle with Vespiquen can be as simple as: Vespiquen switches in. You switch-in a counter. Either she dies from your counter or she dies from the Rocks.
If you're rocks are spinned (or you're running Spikes) Steel completely shut down Vespi. They're immune to Toxic and resist its unimpressive Attack Order. In fact, apart from Hidden Power, Steel types resist Vespiquen's entire offensive movepool. Pick a Steel. Any Steel. Chances are it'll do well against Vespiquen. Poison types also do very well, resisting Attack Order and immune to Poison. Anything that can mitigate or get around Toxic and resists bug can do well against Vespi. Conkledurr, DW Gligar, Natural Cure, Heal Bell, heck even Swellow can take this on.
Also, Toxic destroys it's ability to wall. If you can safely get off a Toxic you've also more or less beaten Vespiquen already.
It's defences are actually pretty good but it can't really pose a threat offensively without a Hone Claws or two. Even then, it's movepool is so horrible and it's Speed is so low that you need to rethink you're team(and possibly your life) if your getting owned by this.

To summarise:
-Stealth Rock means your halfway to beating it. If it switches in twice without healing it's already done for.
-Like any non-Steel/Poison type wall it falls easily to Toxic.
-If you can get around it's own Toxic and aren't cripplingly weak to Bug you can take it on.
-Steel types simply own this thing. Seriously.

[RedTroopa]

Aerodactyl also makes a solid counter, as it can set up with stealth rock, taunt to shut down most movesets, and OHKO with stone edge

[Ilan]

Skarmory laughs at vespiquen. It resists bug moves and flying moves. Vespiquen needs to look out for steels. So you want hp fire or fighting.
Also, it is ok if it is used as an attacker, not a wall, with 80/80 att.

What's your point? every single OU pokemon laughs at vespiquen..
so vespiquen= no OU!
anyway more than half of OU isn't afraid of toxic.


It is just a little better than delibird!

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

What's your point? every single OU pokemon laughs at vespiquen..
so vespiquen= no OU!
anyway more than half of OU isn't afraid of toxic.


It is just a little better than delibird!

Oh, I'll join in on listing some OU counters =-) (not sure if they all still are OU). Metagross, Skarmory, Aerodactyl, Curselax :P, Heatran, Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite, Scizor, Zapdos, Charizard, Moltres, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Articuno (it still exists somewhere), Magnezone, Entei, and a whole lot more. Actually, now that you mention Delibird, I think that Delibird actually could stand a chance beating this thing one on one with SE ice moves

[Zachmac]

Oh, I'll join in on listing some OU counters =-) (not sure if they all still are OU). Metagross, Skarmory, Aerodactyl, Curselax :P, Heatran, Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite, Scizor, Zapdos, Charizard, Moltres, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Articuno (it still exists somewhere), Magnezone, Entei, and a whole lot more. Actually, now that you mention Delibird, I think that Delibird actually could stand a chance beating this thing one on one with SE ice moves

A good chunk of those aren't OU. Curselax, Zapdos, and Aerodactyl haven't been since gen 4, while Moltres, Charizard, Articuno, and Entei haven't been OU since I started competitive pokemon.

Choice Band Delibird 2HKOs it with Aerial Ace, while Vespy fails to 3HKO in return.

Edit: Actually, the calculator I'm using says it always 4HKOs, but the percentages say it should 3HKO a lot of the time. Oh well, as long as you avoid swapping in on attack order, you're fine, and seeing as it'll usually be using toxic on round one...

[MetalCrow]

It is just a little better than delibird!

I'd put my money on delibird