Community POTW #69

[Soperman]

Vespiquen is one of those gimmicky pokemon whose sole purpose is to be a gimmick. The only way to get one is by evolving a female combee (not male). While this should make sense, they have a female Mr. Mime.
Even so, people shouldn't rant on about how bad Vespiquen is. She has a pretty usable move-pool. Vespiquen's main gimmick is having the "orders". Attack Order, Heal Order, and Defend Order. Honestly, she is usable. Defensively, 70/104/104 isn't half bad. While the SR weakness sucks, with a Rapid Spinner in hand, one can actually use Vespi well. She has a mere base 80 in both Attack and Special Attack, so she can't really run a mixed set. She lacks the physical move-pool to do any major damage physically. The last, killing point offensively, is her lack of high-powered attacks. Her strongest is Attack Order, a decent base 90 powered attack. Things aren't looking great for Vespiquen.

Abilities
Pressure: Her abilities don't help at all. Increases opponent's PP usage. Ok for stall, I guess.
Unnerve DW: Currently unreleased. Opponent doesn't eat his or her berries. Also meh.

OBEY
-Substitute
-Heal Order
-Defend Order
-Sludge Bomb
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs and Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
252 Hp/128 Def/128 Sp. Def
Stall set. Set up Sub, use Defend Order to and Heal Order to survive forever, and Sludge Bomb has a decent chance of poisoning the target, which isn't half bad. It also prevents Vespi from being Taunt bait. Modest is for Sludge Bomb to be stronger.

Our Special Queen
-Power Gem
-Signal Beam
-Hidden Power [Ground]
-Ominous Wind
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs and Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
252 Hp/252 Sp. Atk/4 Spd
This is Vespi's only usable Special set. I don't know why nobody mentioned Power Gem, which has decent power and coverage against Flying types. It sucks that Vespiquen doesn't get Bug Buzz, so Signal Beam will have to do instead. HP Ground is excellent coverage for Vespiquen's weaknesses, and Ominous Wind is random coverage, with the chance to boost all of her stats. With a base 40 Speed, Vespiquen isn't going to out-speed anybody, so max Hp instead. Life Orb for power and coverage.

Other Options
I was considering posting a mixed attacker set, but Vespiquen needs all of the EVs in either one of her stats that she can get. Her Attack and Special Attack stats are a mere 80.
Attack Order is her strongest attack. Unfortunately, she doesn't have the physical move-pool to have a physical set.

Partners
Vespiquen loves Water types. She surrounds her hive with Water types to keep Fire and Rock type pokemon away. She needs a spinner, badly. x4 SR weakness is nothing to laugh at.

Countering Vespiquen
Rock types laugh at her, especially Aggron, who can take HP Ground thanks to Sturdy, and hit right back with any of his STAB Rock type attacks. Fire types need to watch out for HP Ground and Power Gem, but since most out-speed Vespiquen, it shouldn't be a huge problem. And then there's Stealth Rock. After getting hurt by Stealth Rock, just about any pokemon with a decent Attack or Special Attack stat can bring her down, so long as it uses a super-effective attack.

[Missingno. Master]

Beehive Yourself
Vespiquen@Leftovers
Impish nature
Pressure
252 HP/200 Sp. Def/56 Def
~Defend Order
~Heal Order
~Attack Order
~Toxic

Vespiquen, Vespiquen, Vespiquen. Buzzing around the bowels of NU, despite respectable defensive stats of 70/102/102, three signature moves, two of which amount to Cosmic Power and Recover equivalents, and workable offensive stats. Why then, is she not used? For an answer, see her type combination. Bug/Flying is an Arceus-awful defensive typing. It does not do for a means of defense to be taken down by way of moves such as Rock Throw and AncientPower, and it especially does not do for a wall to be cut down by half her health just by switching in. Still, this set can help Vespiquen take advantage of her undeniably good defensive stats. Defend Order builds up Defense and Special Defense. Heal Order restores HP. Attack Order is for STAB and to ensure that Vespiquen is not total Taunt bait. Toxic to pile on extra damage and spread around a little Bad Poison.

Item should be obvious. Ability is the only option currently, and is better than its Hidden Ability anyway.


Fight Of The Bumblebee
Vespiquen@Flying Gem
Brave nature
Pressure
252 Atk/252 HP/4 Def
~X-Scissor
~Acrobatics
~Hone Claws
~Return

With a base Attack of 80, Vespiquen can attempt a sweep of some sort. X-Scissor has more power than Attack Order. Acrobatics works well with the item. Hone Claws is good to boost Attack, and Return is filler. Not the best set by any means, but workable. Kinda. Sorta. OK, not really.

Item is for Acrobatics. Ability I covered earlier.


Sting Operation
Vespiquen@Life Orb
Quiet nature
Pressure
252 Sp. Atk/252 HP/4 Def
~Signal Beam
~Power Gem
~Hidden Power (Ground)
~Air Cutter/Sludge Bomb

With a base Special Attack of 80, Vespiquen can attempt a sweep of some sort. Signal Beam is for STAB. Power Gem and HP Ground for a Special version of EdgeQuake. Last move is filler.

Item is for boosting the attacks' power. Ability I covered earlier.

Other options:
*Vespiquen has access to Roost, which some may see as a superior option to Heal Order, due to the removal of the Flying-type, along with a handful of weaknesses. Thing is, Vespiquen is so freaking slow that in nearly all cases it will wind up going last, meaning that Roost's side effect will be meaningless. Heal Order, on the other hand, doesn't require a Generation IV TM- it's a level-up move.
*Venoshock is an option over Attack Order on the first set, but why leave Vespiquen completely useless against Steel-types? Attack Order at least does something to them.
*Tailwind is good for team support, but it won't help Vespiquen much.

Abilities:
*Pressure: If Vespiquen is attacked, the attacker loses 2 PP instead of 1. Nice on a defensive Pokemon. Would be even nicer on something with a better defensive typing. Still, it's a lot better than...
*Unnerve: Vespiquen's Hidden Ability. Not legal yet, but it's not really an issue. Opponents can't eat their berries in Vespiquen's presence. Big deal. Almost nothing carries berries anymore, except for Multiscale Dragonite, and if you're using anything with Unnerve in the same tier as Dragonite, let alone a Vespiquen, then Dragonite's Lum Berry is the least of your problems.

Partners:
Wish support and a lot of Baton Passed defensive boosts are greatly appreciated. Rapid Spin and/or Magic Bounce backup is practically a must.

Counters:
Anything on your team that knows one of these moves listed here qualifies as a Vespiquen counter.

Opinion:
Ehhh.

Prediction for next week:
Unown.

[Rayofquazar]

As a royalty, the beehive pokemon does not "beehave" like a queen! Mostly due to it's typing and horrible speed. But come on, by no means vespiquen is a bad pokemon. She has some originality in her with 3 exclusive moves including the only bug type recovery move. Her offensive presence is not exceptional but can do some serious damage despite her movepool lacks good coverage. Defensively, and despite her horrible defensive typing, it can still take decent hits. Stealth rock is surely a problem but with roost available it is not as threatening for her as for other pokemon. All it needs to do is switch in, take the damage, and then roost it away while it's decent defensive can take at least one normal hit. I didn't say that this is the perfect strategy against stealth rock but it's just a way to controle it's damage. A last saving grace for this queen is that she is hugely resistant to the common grass and fighting types and immune to ground type attacks giving her a great chance to switch in attacks that most other pokemon cannot.
This pokemon can run many sets seeing her equally spread stats but she's awful in many of those limiting her usage for a maximum of two usable sets and some useful moves.
Her physical movepool include: Attack order, Frustration/Return, Aerial ace, Acrobatics, X-scissor, U-turn.
Her special movepool include: Power gem, Venoshock, Sludge bomb, Silver wind, ominous wind, Signal beam.
Her accessory moves include: Confuse ray, Defend order, Pursuit, Heal order, Toxic, Destiny bond, Substitute, Roost, Endeaveor, Tailwind.
While most of these are remotely as useful as others but this is practically all vespiquen can do. Too bad, it is a wickedly cool pokemon!!

[MatchMaster]

The one thing that comes to my mind when it comes to this is this: Stall. That's right. Perhaps everything about Vespiquen except that Bug/Flying typing says it. Now here goes my review:

Pressure - Like I said, Vespiquen is a staller, and Pressure is perhaps the most ideal ability for it due to it's stalling nature.
Unnerve - Pretty useless; enough said.

Queen of Stallers
- Attack Order
- Roost
- Toxic
- Substitute
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 SpD/252 Def/4 HP

The idea behind the moveset is to set up Substitute, poison anything that it can with Toxic, and heal off any damage with Roost. Roost is preferred over Heal Order to temporarily remove Vespiquen's flying-type. Attack Order prevents Vespiquen from being Taunt bait. Since most fire-type move are special, a careful nature is recommended.

Other Options
Vespiquen has a reasonable Special movepool, with Power Gem and Signal Beam among others, but they are significantly weaker than Vespiquen's physical attacks.

[sbktdreed]

Personal Moveset
Pressure w/ Charti Berry
Brave/Quiet Nature
200-170 HP, 170-155 Attack, and 170-155 Sp Attack
Attack Order
Aerial Ace
Power Gem
Confuse Ray/Toxic/Destiny Bond

4th gen Tutor:
Attack Order
Aerial Ace
Power Gem
Confuse Ray/Toxic/Endeavor/Tailwind/Destiny Bond

Partners:
Trick Room Users
Fighting and/or Ground-Types against Rock and Steel-Types

Countering:
High PP Rock moves like Power Gem and Smack Down; other rock moves are riskier with Vespiquen's Pressure.
Defense Curl and Rollout-users with high attack like Sandslash, Donphan, Emboar, and Qwilfish.
Steel-Types, espically Aggron, Bastiodon, and Probopass, are useful with its resistance and immunity to poison.
Other Strong, High-PP moves like: Discharge, Thunderbolt, Thunderpunch, Fire Punch, Flame Burst, Lava Plume, Aurora Beam, Ice Ball, Ice Punch, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Drill Peck, Pluck, and Wing Attack.
Will-o-wisp users with high Sp Defense like Dusknoir.

[Luthor]

for a laugh heres a pre-evo corner suggestion

Combee
Ability-honey gather(move tutor moves currently illegal with hustle)
item-focus sash
Endeavor
air cutter/bug bite/swift
ominous wind
tailwind/string shot

basic idea behind this gimmick set is you use endeavor when combee is taken down to 1hp(focus sash) assuming stealth rock isn't out.if you actually get a second attack against you opponent you use either air cutter/bug bite/swift or ominous wind (combees only way of boosting).tailwind/string shot is generally just so combee can do something supporting. Tailwind would probably be better .

other options( or the only other moves it can learn lol)
sweet scent- decreases evasion might be of use.
mud slap-hits steels and rock types and may lower accuracy but still only has a power of 20 so not too useful
snore-not useful as most don't bother putting it to sleep.
gust-weaker than air cutter

Not a good movepool but it is a way to use any male combee you've got.

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

So #69 is a female-only bee...

Vespiquen is relatively unchanged from last Gen as a neglected yet surprisingly bulky Bug/Fly. She's not bad...it's more like she can't DO anything well.

Otherwise, you should have a core of:
Attack Order
Heal Order/Roost
Toxic
filler move

Starting Gen 5, I suppose Vespiquen can play a more offensively oriented role as a bulky sweeper, but I wouldn't highly recommend it:
Leftovers/Iron Ball/Flying Gem/Berry
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpDef
Hone Claws
Attack Order
Roost/Heal Order
Substitute, Return, Fling, Acrobatics, Natural Gift, Hidden Power

You can also do Choice Band, but I really REALLY don't recommend that. With Vespiquen's junk Speed, it also allows you to run a Speed-lowering Nature without getting too affected by it, should you opt to run mixed.

Combee isn't anything spectacular, but I've seen it get interesting results as a lead outside of LC before, mostly with Sash, Endeavor, Tailwind. Drifloon can do more or less the same, though. Gligar is bulkier and speedier. Natu has a better Ability. Yanma...is probably banned.

[philzone]

I actually used both Vespiquen and Clefable as set up walls in gen 4 OU with decent results. Biggest problem is the set I used had no attacks and was walled by steel and poison types. Vesp was my physical wall and Clef my special wall.

Bold Nature
252 HP/252 Def
Pressure
Defend Order
Heal Order/Roost
Toxic
Protect/Confuse Ray

*edit: hold item was lefties. totally forgot to put it

I was almost about to post a set like this. It is similar to the one i wrote, but here are the counters for this set:every single steel type pokemon could destroy this set. Skarmory and magnezone are your main counters. Skarmory wipe it with drill peck, and magnezones sp att and thunderbolt, goodbye vespiquen. i would suggest putting hp fighting or fire instead in the 4th move slot, to counter steels

[philzone]

Separate post for the little cup
Combee. Loved this. Had one.lv 20 and could take on gardenia's roserade 1st time.
Moves.
Bug bite
Air cutter
Swift
Ominous wind
Relaxed.
Evs:252 hp,252 def,4 sp def
Item:evolite
Ability:hustle.
Not a good move pool, but hey,here it is. Walls many pokemon in the little cup. Here it chips away at the foes health. Absolutely awfull move pool. Don't bother

[nanoomega]

I was almost about to post a set like this. It is similar to the one i wrote, but here are the counters for this set:every single steel type pokemon could destroy this set. Skarmory and magnezone are your main counters. Skarmory wipe it with drill peck, and magnezones sp att and thunderbolt, goodbye vespiquen. i would suggest putting hp fighting or fire instead in the 4th move slot, to counter steels

To be honest the set was from when I first started playing competitively. I would just switch to my clef with flamethrower for steel types, maybe being able to set up some cosmic powers in the process.

[your boss]

Don't bother using Vespiquen in OU. too many fast, offensive threats. Don't use it in doubles either. Weak to rock slide, heat wave, blizzard, and discharge yeh Vespiquen and her subjects are flat out terrible.

[menametlg]

Basic Set
@Left-overs
Pressure
252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SDef [ Impish ]
- Attack Order
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defend Order / HP [ Ground ] / Taunt

Since Vespiqueen doesn't improved at all, Tank set is still the best set so far.

Offensive
@Flying Gem
Pressure
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def [ Brave ]
- Acrobatics
- Attack Order / U-Turn / Slash
- Confuse Ray / Captivate
- Pursuit

This set focuses on Attack. Acrobatics + Flying Gem + STAB = Crazy Offense. However this can only be use once. For the feelers, Attack Order and slash are both offensive one while U-Turn scout you out while it deal great damage. Confuse Ray and Captivate are like " force switch out or fight like a s**t " while Pursuit damage hard before they can even scout out.

Other options...

Destiny Bond - works best with Trick Room sweeper. If not, say no.

Venoshock - offensive partner with toxic but it's a feeler so say no.

[jireh the provider]

all the sets are pretty much said. But I think her attack order could be even more dangerous on Pokemon Conquest. Just like multi hitting moves that are weak in main series but powerful on Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.

Always have the order attacks.

[Soperman]

Personal Moveset
Pressure w/ Charti Berry
Attack Order
Aerial Ace/Gust
Power Gem
Confuse Ray/Toxic

4th gen Tutor:
Attack Order
Aerial Ace/Gust
Power Gem
Confuse Ray/Toxic/Endeavor/Tailwind

Partners:
Trick Room Users
Fighting and/or Ground-Types against Rock and Steel-Types

Countering:
High PP Rock moves like Power Gem and Smack Down; other rock moves are riskier with Vespiquen's Pressure.
Defense Curl and Rollout-users with high attack like Sandslash, Donphan, Emboar, Qwilfish, and Wailord.
Steel-Types, espically Aggron, Bastiodon, and Probopass, are useful with its resistance and immunity to poison.
Other Strong, High-PP moves like: Discharge, Thunderbolt, Thunderpunch, Fire Punch, Flame Burst, Lava Plume, Aurora Beam, Ice Ball, Ice Punch, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Drill Peck, Fly, Pluck, and Wing Attack.
Will-o-wisp users with high Sp Defense like Dusknoir.

You clearly don't know competitive battling very well.
First of all, you don't have EVs .__.
Secondly, Gust has terrible power, and Endeavor works more as a gimmick than anything else.
Why would high PP moves be risky? In the world of competitive battling, PP is rarely ever a problem.
Also, Smack Down has a low base power, so we never use that either. You want high base power, regardless of whether or not it has a lot of PP
Defense Curl and Rollout is another gimmick. Nobody ever uses it.
No to be rude or anything, but next time, do some research about competitive pokemon battling before posting on a competitive pokemon thread.
If you really need help, check out Smogon.com. They've got tons of stuff.

[Zachmac]

If anything should be mentioned, it is it's terrible defensive typing. Well, it's x4 resistance to fighting is nice, expect for the fact that just about every fighting type learns stone edge. It also resist EQ, except that it's weak to EQ's favorite coverage move in, yet again, Stone Edge. Spikes and Toxic Spikes? That doesn't matter if you lose half your health to stealth rock. It can wall grass types I guess, but that's about it, and there are probably better grass counters out there.

I'll give some ways to counter it. Besides the obvious stone edge, it's set up bait for just about any living steel type. Heck, almost any steel types can counter it, especially if they have a move like Swords Dance or know toxic. And speaking of which, toxic is the queen's bane. If you do use it at all, it's best with some heal bell support.

Scizor is my favorite counter for it, x4 resisting it's STAB, immune to toxic, and can easily get to +6.

There is gonna bee a lot of shitty puns. Just saying now. I don't have a lot of sets to post sadly. Never used this thing, although i can say hazards will need to be off the field. Just saying.

I see what you did there.

Offensive
@Flying Gem
Pressure
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def [ Brave ]
- Acrobatics
- Attack Order / U-Turn / Slash
- Confuse Ray / Captivate
- Pursuit

U-turn on Vespiquen. Haha.

Okay, I'll admit I used U-turn Ninjask once apon a time, but still.

Don't use U-turn on it, because of a little rock move known as.....if you haven't guessed it, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be in the competitive section.

[philzone]

Partners for vespiquen.
Anything with flamethrower or surf. So hydreigon is good. Steel types beware. Also latios uses both, and packs quite an impact. Trick room is where vespiquen comes in useful,so bronzong,and slowking/slowbro are good. Also, ice or electric types, so jolteon and glaceon damage the flying types. Haxorus has mold breaker, so many rock types with sturdy need to watch out.

[sbktdreed]

You clearly don't know competitive battling very well.
First of all, you don't have EVs .__.
Secondly, Gust has terrible power, and Endeavor works more as a gimmick than anything else.
Why would high PP moves be risky? In the world of competitive battling, PP is rarely ever a problem.
Also, Smack Down has a low base power, so we never use that either. You want high base power, regardless of whether or not it has a lot of PP
Defense Curl and Rollout is another gimmick. Nobody ever uses it.
No to be rude or anything, but next time, do some research about competitive pokemon battling before posting on a competitive pokemon thread.
If you really need help, check out Smogon.com. They've got tons of stuff.

FYI, I'd been playing and researching long enough to set up some good ideas.
First of all, I focus on moves than EVs, espically early in the game.
Next, I'm referring to LOW PP-moves like Stone Edge and Fire Blast; espically when Vespiquen is using Protect, Heal Order, Defend Order, or other moves that forces you to use more times than needed. When that goes down, you're out of luck; espically Choice-holding or Torment-infected users.
Gust can be used against Fly-users, but I understand.
On top of being a rock-type for the 4x weakness, it's wide open for ground moves.
DC to Rollout increase the power and can hit multiple times with increase intensity.
Endeavor can be useful against Steel or Poison-Types, espically when status moves like confusion, poison, or attract doesn't work.
As for everything else, I'll make the changes.

[chap196]

Counters
Stealth Rock is one of Vespiquen weakness which make Vespiquen loss half of its HP for free. Taunt make Vespiquen can't use any status move which really make Vespiquen a lot badder by using only Attack move and cannot use support move for Vespiquen like Defend Order, Heal Order etc which make Vespiquen a lot easier to defeat. Burn and Badly Poison make Vespiquen a bit weaker because Burn will lower Attack Order base power and Badly Poison will make Vespiquen can't stay in the battle for a long time. Steel type Pokemon can resist nearly every Vespiquen move (except for Hidden Power Fire,Fighting or Ground), also Steel type Pokemon can avoid Toxic and it can resist both Bug and Flying type move, so Steel Pokemon can kill Vespiquen very easily.

[Sala-imence]

OFFENSIVE Vespiquen

Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe
Ability: Unnerve
Moveset:
- Attack Order
- Aerial Ace
- Pursuit
- Giga Impact

Here's the rundown. Thanks to Choice Band, your moves have awesome power. Giga Impact to go out with a bang. If you think your foe does not want t fight you, pursuit those switchers. The other moves are STAB and will do loads of damage. Especially Attack Order, which is bug type leaf blade.

[Ilan]

FYI, I'd been playing and researching long enough to set up some good ideas.
First of all, I focus on moves than EVs, espically early in the game.
Next, I'm referring to LOW PP-moves like Stone Edge and Fire Blast; espically when Vespiquen is using Protect, Heal Order, Defend Order, or other moves that forces you to use more times than needed. When that goes down, you're out of luck; espically Choice-holding or Torment-infected users.
Gust can be used against Fly-users, but I understand.
On top of being a rock-type for the 4x weakness, it's wide open for ground moves.
DC to Rollout increase the power and can hit multiple times with increase intensity.
Endeavor can be useful against Steel or Poison-Types, espically when status moves like confusion, poison, or attract doesn't work.
As for everything else, I'll make the changes.

You don't put EV= you don't know anything not trying to be rude either...

You are not good at giving sets..

People plz don't mention ANY OU pokemon if you are using it in OU you LOVE losing.

No Giga Impact also..

@philzone: that what I said try to not mention UU or OU pokemon then all beat vespiquen