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Thread: A Restoration Confrontation! (Part 2) (737

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hol123 View Post
    The thing that bugs me is that they were once again sooo close to succeeding.
    True, but again, this is a kids show. The most we'll get is the villains winning in all the build-up to the big events, but even if they come close, they'll fail in the big event themselves. That's what happened here with Team Rocket (succeeded in stealing the date of the fossil revival machine in BW39 and succeeded in getting away with rocks of Chargestone Cave in BW64, but ultimately failed in this two-parter). It's happened with other villains in the past too, like Team Galactic (success up to a point, but then ultimate failure.)

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderblade12 View Post
    Its because this seriously didn't need to be a two-parter. All it was is another Team Rocket-centric filler that we've been accustomed to since Johto.

    Formula:
    1. Team Rocket have a plan to steal pokemon X for reason Y - Ash and co. conveniently meet Pokemon X (and sometimes its trainer also)
    2. Team Rocket make up some devious plan to capture pokemon X that fails
    3. They then have to resort to taking it by force and show how pathetically weak their pokemon are compared to the main group's
    4. Pokemon X aids in preventing its capture somehow and the battle ends most often with a Thunderbolt from Pikachu
    5. Happy ending for Pokemon X
    First off, in what way was this comedic? Seriously?

    Secondly, I'm going to deconstruct this:

    1. Team Rocket's plan was partially to REVIVE the Pokemon; Ash and co. never would have met it if TR hadn't taken action first.
    2. Except their plan did NOT fail; they revived the Pokemon and the Door of Time was opened exactly as they'd planned.
    3. They already HAD the Pokemon when they battle Ash and co., and their Pokemon put up a heck of a fight and weren't "pathetically weak".
    4. This is the only one you got right, but again, this is the Pokemon anime. You ought to be expecting things like this.
    5. Happy ending? Carracosta had to go back to it's own time and seperated forever from it's human friend. That's bittersweet, but not happy.

    So yeah, only ONE part of that formula holds true to this two-parter.

    And again, you think one episode could effictively establish the CotD and Pokemon, tell their backstory, have Ash meet Dr. Zager, have past TR appearances fully explained and tied in to this, have the Pokemon in question revived, have a big battle, have a complicated process like opening the Door of Time take place, and be wrapped up in a satisfying manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Phoenix View Post
    I'm amazed with how sudden a fossil pokemon can get an evolution. It has to be something in the water lol.
    I assume it might have been near ready to evolve before it got fossilized, and just picked up where it left off once it got revived.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 26th April 2012 at 10:02 PM.

  2. #52
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    The thing that bugs me about this episode is the returning of caracosta to the past. Do they know what horrible effects on the time stream that could have?

    That be like replacing a younger you (like a few years old) and replace it with the you from now.




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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hol123 View Post
    The thing that bugs me is that they were once again sooo close to succeeding.
    The thing that bugged me was the fact that the episode summary mentioned that we were gonna get a huge battle in this episode, but it never came to pass. All we got was the usual Team Rocket battle where they lose and Ash and friends rejoice. The writers are clearly running out of ideas if they've resorted to giving us two-parters where nothing happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th KIRA View Post
    The thing that bugged me was the fact that the episode summary mentioned that we were gonna get a huge battle in this episode, but it never came to pass.
    Overexaggerated descriptions, embelishments and hype happen all the time in episode summaries. It's your fault for believing "huge battle" meant something special.

    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th KIRA View Post
    The writers are clearly running out of ideas if they've resorted to giving us two-parters where nothing happens.
    Except for, you know, all the stuff that DID happen (wrapping up loose ends from EP39 and EP64, Ash meeting Zager, Tirtouga being revived and evolving into Carracosta, and IMHO a damn good battle that everyone is dismissing just because it was against Team Rocket, ignoring completely how skilled they were here.)

    And I find it funny you're accusing the writers of "running out of ideas" NOW when the past decade or so, the anime has featured a repetitive formula.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 27th April 2012 at 12:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    1. Unless you speak Japanese, you have no idea what all the talking was about. How can you judge it boring or not? It could be, sure, but we don't know until we have subs.
    I speak Japanese, understood the dialogue, and can vouch for the fact that it was indeed hideously boring.

    I actively dislike very few episodes of this series, and find a lot of the episodes people tend to bring up as examples of "terrible episodes that almost ruined the series" or whatever to be highly entertaining (come on, how can people dislike that Wooper filler from Jouto? It's hilarious).
    I'll join the crowd on this one, though - it was a completely standard "steal-the-Pokemon" Rocket plot that got dragged out over two episodes with a whole ton of unnecessarily long exposition. Bland characters, bland action, no funny scenes (this is BW, so there weren't even any Rocket antics to liven things up) , predictable, stretched-out plot that didn't really amount to much... honestly, what was there TO like? Part 2 had some slightly ok action scenes, but part 1 is seriously one of, if not THE, worst Pokemon episode I've ever seen.

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    The Wooper episode was pretty boring, Adamant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    It was a completely standard "steal-the-Pokemon" Rocket plot
    Remind me: how is it "standard" for Team Rocket to try and nearly succeed in half-KILLING a Pokemon in order to open up a way to obtain more Pokemon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    Part 2 had some slightly ok action scenes, but part 1 is seriously one of, if not THE, worst Pokemon episode I've ever seen.
    But this isn't Part 1 everyone's complaining about, it's Part 2, just because they were expecting much more of the episode for no good reason.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 27th April 2012 at 3:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Remind me: how is it "standard" for Team Rocket to try and nearly succeed in half-KILLING a Pokemon in order to open up a way to obtain more Pokemon?
    Minor detail. Doesn't make the rest of it less standard.

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    ^^;

    Let's all remember this is Pokemon we're watching...not something with deep plots.

    I saw the pictures. It wasn't so bad. It was cute
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    Minor detail. Doesn't make the rest of it less standard.
    Minor detail? Tell that to Carracosta! XD

    But seriously, what did you expect Team Rocket to do? They've been primarily Pokemon thieves again ever since Giovanni went AWOL.

    Competant and backed by Dr. Zager's resources, but thieves nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by 00poke_maniac View Post
    It wasn't so bad. It was cute.
    The Tirtouga/Carracosta parts at the start and end were cute, yes.

    The rest was pretty serious and intense. I wonder if that's what everyone's claiming to be boring.

    Makes me wonder if when the Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma two-parter finally DOES air (this summer?), it'll get derided for being boring due to how serious in tone it is.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 27th April 2012 at 3:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Overexaggerated descriptions, embelishments and hype happen all the time in episode summaries. It's your fault for believing "huge battle" meant something special.



    Except for, you know, all the stuff that DID happen (wrapping up loose ends from EP39 and EP64, Ash meeting Zager, Tirtouga being revived and evolving into Carracosta, and IMHO a damn good battle that everyone is dismissing just because it was against Team Rocket, ignoring completely how skilled they were here.)

    And I find it funny you're accusing the writers of "running out of ideas" NOW when the past decade or so, the anime has featured a repetitive formula.
    I forgot that I'm dealing with a Team Rocket fan; anything negative that anyone has to say about Team Rocket will simply fall on deaf ears. I honestly don't understand why anyone would waste time trying to justify the unjustifiable, but more power to those people I guess. I'd just like to point out that regardless of the little things that occurred, this episode was still a waste of time. If the writers really wanted to tie up a few loose ends, they could have easily crammed the events of this episode into the previous one instead of giving us a tedious two-parter. That would have saved them a lot of effort, and the fans a lot of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 00poke_maniac View Post

    I saw the pictures. It wasn't so bad. It was cute

    Saw the ep, in HD mind you, and I speak only a little Japanese, but I understand more than I can speak.


    That said, I have to concur, with what Adamant said.

    Generic plot, boring, harkens to the DP era's more boring eps.

    But it was nice to finally have the obligatory 2-3 fossil eps over and done with.

    Sad to see they squandered the chance to properly use the built-up tension and plot they first set in motion in the Archeos ep, almost 8-9 months ago....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th KIRA View Post
    I forgot that I'm dealing with a Team Rocket fan; anything negative that anyone has to say about Team Rocket will simply fall on deaf ears.
    I forgot that I'm dealing with a Best Wishes hater; anything positive that anyone has to say about BW will simply fall on deaf ears.

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    I think that the issue is that there are a group of intriguing episodes coming up and there was really nothing really great that stood out about this two parter. Nothing really happened and Team Rocket did not really have a larger plan than just steal Pokémon X. I think that if there was more to it, people would have had a different reaction. Many people don't think that a steal Pokémon X plot really deserves a two parter. I've only seen the pictures so I'll have to watch the episode before I can make a more informed decision, but the pictures made it only look okay, and a far cry from the usual quality of BW episodes, especially compared to what we know of the next three upcoming episodes.
    Team Rocket will pay for their crimes.

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    I don't know a bout you but "Attack of the Prehistoric Pokemon" is one of my personal favorite episodes...
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    So I heard that people are looking forward to my always-entertaining flamethrower of opinions. Well, guess what?

    I liked these episodes! Unlike the sheer disappointment that was the Kami Trio arc, this one actually gave Team Rocket plenty to do, and they were actually active in trying to accomplish their goal this time instead of sitting by and doing nothing. It really reminded me of what they originally seemed to be when they were first introduced, before they were allowed to regress into the pathetic jokes they were for so long. These episodes also stepped up Dr. Zager as one of this series's major antagonists, and I think he really shined.

    AgentPierce, as often as we disagree, you're absolutely right this time. I would dare to take your comparison to Hunter J and Team Galactic a step further - anyone remember the Iron Island arc? Aside from a couple of game characters showing up and a pretty exciting climax, not much at all really happened to set it apart from previous episodes, especially the massive raid the entire team minus Charon staged on Celestic Town. Yet, it was received pretty well. I'll concede that Fujio and Stella weren't the most exciting COTDs and that the last battle could have taken place on the other side of the time portal, but really, this was Team Rocket's Iron Island arc. So... what gives?

    This is not going to be the last we hear of this, I think. If the Dream Energy could come back once, I don't think there's any reason why it and the Chargestones couldn't be used for something else, especially with Dragonspiral Tower coming up. Zager still has the Dream Energy, the Chargestones and all the data from this operation, so there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't hear about this again.

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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    It really reminded me of what they originally seemed to be when they were first introduced, before they were allowed to regress into the pathetic jokes they were for so long.
    Exactly. I mean, why should Team Rocket do something beyond "catch Pokemon X" when they are primarily Pokemon theives? The only time they did different kind of work was when they were in black and in direct correspondence with Giovanni for a certain mission (the Meteonite one.) When they're back in white, it's back to Pokemon stealing. The key is how they go about it, and in this case, they went about it really well: ruthless, formidable, and determined, with nothing pathetic about their plan or even their defeat.

    AgentPierce, as often as we disagree, you're absolutely right this time.
    Thank you. It's always nice to agree on something.

    I would dare to take your comparison to Hunter J and Team Galactic a step further - anyone remember the Iron Island arc? Aside from a couple of game characters showing up and a pretty exciting climax, not much at all really happened to set it apart from previous episodes, especially the massive raid the entire team minus Charon staged on Celestic Town. Yet, it was received pretty well. I'll concede that Fujio and Stella weren't the most exciting COTDs and that the last battle could have taken place on the other side of the time portal, but really, this was Team Rocket's Iron Island arc. So... what gives?
    I'd forgotten about Iron Island, but you're right. In the grand scheme of the Galactic arc, those two episodes were filler. There was no build-up for it and Team Galactic's grand scheme wasn't pushed any further; the whole thing ended in failure. Yet those episodes were well recieved, whereas these similar ones aren't. Why?

    Again, I can't help but suspect a bias against Team Rocket being the villains. Some may just be so sick of their failures over the years that they hate seeing them do evil and fail even when they're being actual effective villains in doing so. Some may think it's OOC for Team Rocket to be so ruthless (though, going by the games, it's OOC for Cyrus and Mars to do what they did at Iron Island). And, of course, some actually preferred them as the run-into-the-ground joke they were for a long time before BW and think them being serious is "boring".

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    This is not going to be the last we hear of this, I think. If the Dream Energy could come back once, I don't think there's any reason why it and the Chargestones couldn't be used for something else, especially with Dragonspiral Tower coming up. Zager still has the Dream Energy, the Chargestones and all the data from this operation, so there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't hear about this again.
    And once more I must also point out: Ash meets Dr. Zager here. And the scene was played pretty dramatically too, with Zager getting a pan-up with an ominous sound chord struck, and Jessie giving Ash a formal introduction to him, with Ash repeating the name afterward ("Dr. Zager?") So personally, I doubt this is going to be the only time that Ash and co. personally see Dr. Zager, meaning that this fact alone bears these episodes some importance.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 27th April 2012 at 7:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoennTori View Post
    When do the bad guys ever win in these shows?
    Cyrus realized his 'dream', although his fate is unknown in the anime.

    Team Rocket managed to steal these crystals/stones in the Joltik episode, so actually they won for once. This time i wish they would manage take atleast one Carracosta for themselves.

    If Team Plasma is not going to appear then we need TR to be waaaay more competent than even now they are in BW.

    If Plasma would appear, then i don't think they would fail as much as TR does now, always flying off with empty hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    I assume it might have been near ready to evolve before it got fossilized, and just picked up where it left off once it got revived.
    I was just joking because Tirtouga evolved all of sudden.

    Anyway, I agree with that theory. That's why it didn't bother me that much.
    Last edited by Spider-Phoenix; 27th April 2012 at 8:58 PM. Reason: Fixed incomplete phrase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisharp View Post
    Cyrus realized his 'dream', although his fate is unknown in the anime.
    No. No, he didn't realize his dream, unless you count his sudden change in motive and character.

    And his fate is unknown? He erased himself from existance; he's good as dead.

    Team Rocket managed to steal these crystals/stones in the Joltik episode, so actually they won for once.
    They got away with stealing things other times other times too (dream energy, research data, the Meteonite shard from the museum, etc.)

    They don't always fly off with empty hands like you say they do.

  21. #71

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    Well judging from the huge argument in the thread, a lot of people hated this two parter and wasn't satisfied.

    Personally I enjoyed it, i think it worked well and tied up the loose ends of BW039 and BW064. Not only that but i imagine this won't be the last we here of the past world, Genosect fits into that place almost too perfectly for the idea to be dropped here. Following this, the whole TR plan could have been to obtain information on how to harness the time travel and ultimately find the legendary Genosect. my wishful thinking is showing again

    Albeit this isn't really likely, but even so the two parter was enjoyable. The battle wasn't amazing, and the bond betwen Fujio and Turtouga wasn't very emotional to me, but besides that I have no complaint. The problem is people hyped themselves too much for it, what ever happened to a simple and well thought out plan? That's basically what the writers did, they developed the episodes over a period of time instead and extended the idea into two episodes.
    I highly doubt this could have all been done in one episode without being a complete mess and rushed.

    Hopefully this isn't the end of TR's dream energy/fossil plan. Im hoping they tell Giovanni about what they have done/learnt and something serious takes place from there.

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    Their track record is still pretty piss poor though, because you literally to balance those maybe half a dozen successes with the hundreds of times they've been unsuccessful in the past. But if you just include Unova, they are better than they have ever been. I would like to chalk that up to someone on the writing staff finally knowing how to write these guys a bit better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    I forgot that I'm dealing with a Best Wishes hater; anything positive that anyone has to say about BW will simply fall on deaf ears.
    Oh please. I may not love the BW saga, but that doesn't mean that I'm a hater. You on the other hand, practically worship Team Rocket, and you refuse to listen to reason. Their part in these episodes was redundant whether you like it or not. And like many people have told you before, they aren't working towards some great scheme; they're just doing odd jobs for the sake of having something to do. They've done nothing productive whatsoever, and it's about time you realized it.

  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th KIRA View Post
    Their part in these episodes was redundant whether you like it or not.
    Not true.

    BW006, 39 and 64 lead up to this with TR being the main people to make it happen, they were finishing the job.

    And like many people have told you before, they aren't working towards some great scheme; they're just doing odd jobs for the sake of having something to do. They've done nothing productive whatsoever, and it's about time you realized it.
    Im not agreeing, or disagreeing but please, quit acting like you know this for sure.

    We're not at the end of the BW saga yet and anything could happen in the future involving the events which happened in these episodes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Not true.

    BW006, 39 and 64 lead up to this with TR being the main people to make it happen, they were finishing the job.
    So you're defending a plan that took more than a year [in real time] to come to fruition, even though the end result was a complete disaster (as expected)? I didn't think it was possible, but those how are defending TR's "plan" are even more stubborn than those who defend Cilan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Im not agreeing, or disagreeing but please, quit acting like you know this for sure.

    We're not at the end of the BW saga yet and anything could happen in the future involving the events which happened in these episodes.
    Please don't give me that "don't state your opinions as fact" crap. I'm merely pointing out that obvious: Team Rocket hasn't done anything worth mentioning so far. Even their plot to travel back in time, which again, took forever to come to fruition, ended horribly. So even if they are planning something bigger, it's going to go the same way as their other plans. Must I remind everyone of how many of their schemes have failed in the past? It must be more than 500 so far. Anyone could connect the dots and realize that no good will come from TR.

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