Community POTW #70

[Zachmac]

Funny, I actually usually thought Heatmor's problem's were in it's mediocre stats, it's movepool seems pretty usable to me. Fire Blast, HP, Sucker Punch, Pursuit, SolarBeam, Stockpile.

Eh, not that great. Stockpile won't help those defenses, Pursuit is unneeded since I can't think of a ghost or psychic other then Froslass who'd swap out of it, and SolarBeam...that's only any good in OU, but it's unreliable there as well.

It's a mix of those things that make it bad. 85 HP is passable, if you don't take it's defenses into acount...but if you do, it's pretty dang bad. Offensive power? It's special attack is only slighter then average, and it's speed....

In other words, it's slow and frail. Not a good combo.

Doesnt houndoom get sucker punch

Yes, it does. In fact, it gets it STABed. Poor Heatmor doesn't even have a niche. At least Houndoom looks better.

really just use scarf magmotar.

I think Ilan here just summed up the poor anteater's entire existence.

@philzone don't use heatmor in OU, and UU

...Or NU, while you're at it.

Anyway Heatmor is an awesome looking fire type but outclassed by Magmortar and even Simisear and is sad that Durant is the better rival(woo hoo).

Not just sad, ironic. The predator is weaker then the bug it eats.

[Rayofquazar]

Doesnt houndoom get sucker punch

Yes it does... but houndoom is also part dark.

So, Heatmor is the only fire type to get sucker punch that is not dark typed! LOL... What a niche!

[Ilan]

Yes it does... but houndoom is also part dark.

So, Heatmor is the only fire type to get sucker punch that is not dark typed! LOL... What a niche!

Or rather the only fire type with sucker punch in NU.


Really it is so pathetic it doesn't even have a niche in it's own tier.. well maybe when SU (Sometimes used just a guess on it's name lol) will be a tier lol...

Normally we will try to find niche in any pokemon but vespiquen and heatmor... have no niche.

[Rayofquazar]

Or rather the only fire type with sucker punch in NU.


Really it is so pathetic it doesn't even have a niche in it's own tier.. well maybe when SU (Sometimes used just a guess on it's name lol) will be a tier lol...

Normally we will try to find niche in any pokemon but vespiquen and heatmor... have no niche.

Well... Sometimes is more than never! Maybe the new tier will be named NEU aka never ever used!!

But anyway... No pokemon is completely useless barring "Unown" of course but some are much easier to use then others... Let's not be too hard on weaker pokemon... It's gamefreak's fault, not theirs!

[John Wallrein]

Heatmor is an often ignored Pokémon but is actually a very decent Fire-type.

lol.

As most people said Heatmor plain sucks, and is outclassed in any role you can think of. If your into using outclassed mon's though, because you like them or whatever go crazy.

[Vandslaux]

OK, Heatmor's screwed at every corner.

I would rather use Camerupt for a Stockpile set, and Camerupt can at least run Stealth Rock.

I would rather use Murkrow if I wanted Sucker Punch in NU.

HP Grass, every Fire-type.

It's stats are mediocre compared to other Fire-type monsters in NU, like Emboar, Rapidash, Magmortar, and Camerupt.

There's nothing to Pursuit in NU.

105 SpAtk doesn't exactly cut it, compared to the listed above Fire-types' offensive stats.

SR weak, Camerupt and Emboar aren't.

Focus Blast isn't that great of a niche, as Regirock will survive and kill you with Stone Edge anyway. Also, Camerupt's Earth Power. Emboar's Superpower.

[sbktdreed]

Personally, I prefer White Smoke, which isn't available, over the others

Personal Moveset
Gluttony w/ Sitrus Berry OR White Smoke w/ Life Orb/Leftovers
Brave w/ 170 HP, 170 Defense, and 170 Sp Defense
Flamethrower
Focus Blast
Shadow Claw/Night Slash/Faint Attack
Bug Bite/Aerial Ace/Rock Tomb

Other Moves Ideas
Toxic
Snatch is a decent replacement for White Smoke
Hone Claws is espically useful if Inferno is added
Solarbeam equiped with Power Herb and/or Sunny Day is added
Facade
Rest-Sleep Talk with Chesto Berry

Partners
Sunny Day/Drought-Users espically if Solarbeam is added.
No Guard-Users if Inferno is going to be used instead of Flamethrower.
Lava Plume-Users if use one with Flash Fire.
Trick Room-users

Countering
Defensive Pokemon that uses Water/Ground/Rock-type moves like Tyranitar, Claydol, Wash Rotom, Scrafty, Altaria, Dragonite, or Blastoise. If Trick Room is in effect, Slowbro, Dusknoir, Bastiodon, Hitmontop, or Cradily may be applied too.

[Kraleck]

170 HP, 170 Defense, and 170 Sp Defense

No. Just...no. You'll want to move 2 of those EV points to one of the other stats, most likely HP. 170 doesn't divide evenly by 4, which is a must for EV allocation. While 2 points are always wasted with a 510 total, you've wasted six by going triple-170. Go for 172-170-168 or 172-169-169 for full potential. A.I. sets are like that in certain places and it is far from adequate.

[Ilan]

No. Just...no. You'll want to move 2 of those EV points to one of the other stats, most likely HP. 170 doesn't divide evenly by 4, which is a must for EV allocation. While 2 points are always wasted with a 510 total, you've wasted six by going triple-170. Go for 172-170-168 or 172-169-169 for full potential. A.I. sets are like that in certain places and it is far from adequate.

All the set is just wrong not only the EV..

And if you want bulk for a SR weak then it is 248 HP EV.
and there are ALWAYS 2 useless EVs except in LC where there are more useless EVs.

Aerial ace, bug bite,rock tomb WTF?

White smoke is useless... the only pokemon I know who relies on that is shaymin.

[Archstaraptor]

Where you been? Heatmor stinks and is outclassed by almost every fire type in the game. We know. However, this is the POTW, so we have to find something you can use it for, so we stick to the only thing it has over other fire types, which is its unique movepool. Yes Stockpile stinks and is completely outclassed, but hey, it's something we can do with Heatmor. Yes, their are plenty of better Sucker Punch users, but Heatmor is the only fire type that can use it, so by golly we're going to it.

I battled a Lanturn on the subway,which stockpiled thrice and rested off any decent damage I could deal with my Mienshao.
The difference here is that Heatmor has attacking potential as well as a chesto/rest in its set,so something like this maybe?

Don't be so Heatmorose,guys

Heatmor@Chesto Berry
Flash Fire
Stockpile
Rest
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Night Slash/Shadow Claw/Sucker Punch

Switch in to fire attack,then set up.Or,have a fast ally spam lava plume and divert attention in general:A rage powder Amoongus would be a good idea.
A fire move of choice and finally another move to round it off,but sucker-punch always provides a powerful priority attack to combat the opponents that will try to beat you into the ground-ideally doing more damage than them.I'd say rest off damage,but they could easily set up on you whilst you snooze.

[Barbeller]

I'm thinking band Sucker Punch is the best set here. A revenge killer to set-up sweepers, it also provides a check to Ferrothorn with it's fire typing, as well as outspeeding the other wall-ish steels. It gets screwed by Terrakion though. Life Orb or Band is what I think.

Specs Heatmor might be ok, or even Expert Belt. Predict Heatran/Terrakion in and KO it with HP Ground. Then Volcarona or something has a clear sweep. You'd probably want a Donphan to cover it, because it can Spin, and make the opponent think you don't want them to switch often with SR, when you really want them to switch.

[sbktdreed]

No. Just...no. You'll want to move 2 of those EV points to one of the other stats, most likely HP. 170 doesn't divide evenly by 4, which is a must for EV allocation. While 2 points are always wasted with a 510 total, you've wasted six by going triple-170. Go for 172-170-168 or 172-169-169 for full potential. A.I. sets are like that in certain places and it is far from adequate.

All the set is just wrong not only the EV..

And if you want bulk for a SR weak then it is 248 HP EV.
and there are ALWAYS 2 useless EVs except in LC where there are more useless EVs.

Aerial ace, bug bite,rock tomb WTF?

White smoke is useless... the only pokemon I know who relies on that is shaymin.

I'm not good at EVs, but I know that focusing on Speed is no good enough to do anything even though natures; so don't judge me about it. Besides 170 is 510 divided three ways. I'm in favor on maxing HPs, but I would equip it with either Life Orb or a berry that weakens the move that Heatmor is weak against.
As for the forth move problems, I going with a mix of mix of moves. Dig is no good at all espically against Earthquake-users. Amnesia can be soften the blow of special attacks espically Hydro Pump and Earth Power, but you need to add EV more towards Defense to even it up.
As for White smoke being useless, it can protect stat-effected moves; which would otherwise need to be "snatched" to counter, but not abilites like Intimidate. Gluttony can be useful if the berry can improve stats or etc as well as Sitrus Berries; which is no good because we can't transfer the other "pinch" berries and the Dream World doesn't have those yet.

Also, I made some additional moves ideas to my original post.

[MX42]

Oh boy. THE WORST FIRE TYPE IN THE GAME! Flareon? Crap movepool, but barely usable. Magcargo? Well, that is debatable, but still, this thing is beyond horrible. There is no reason to use it. PERIOD!

Why have though not been destroyed yet?
Sucker Punch
Fire Blast
Focus Blast
HP Ice
Quiet. 252 Atk, 252 Spa, 4 HP
Life Orb

For Trick Room ONLY. Use this seriously and expect to be laughed at. With TR, you will outspeed a lot of stuff, with how much you speed sucks. Fire Blast for stab, Focus Blast to hit rock types and for coverage, HP ice for dragons, and Sucker Punch so you might do some damage to their revenge killer...

Counters: Any fully evoled water type not called luvdisc...

[Zachmac]

I battled a Lanturn on the subway,which stockpiled thrice and rested off any decent damage I could deal with my Mienshao.
The difference here is that Heatmor has attacking potential as well as a chesto/rest in its set,so something like this maybe?

Well, unlike Heatmor, Lanturn has an HP stat.

I'll bet Heatmor would at least be 2HKOed by a Mienshao.

[Kraleck]

Heatmor lacks everywhere that a Fire Type can't afford to: HP, Speed, and defenses. Fragility? Rampardos has better durability, even without Heatmor's Stealth Rock weakness. Freakin' Pidgeot has more durability than Heatmor and, likewise, has a Stealth Rock weakness. Barring Stealth Rock being in play, Heatmor barely has Toxicroak beat on durability.

Like most Fire Types, Speed is another issue. Equal Speed to Charmander, Vulpix, Flareon, Cyndaquil, Houndour, and Emboar means you are below the average for all Fire Types (71.54 according to Bulbapedia). Even with Sunny-Beam, Hidden Power, or Focus Blast in play to cover Pokemon with STAB on Heatmor's weaknesses, too many of them can still outrun Heatmor. This, coupled with a Stealth Rock weakness and the fragility I mentioned, is why Heatmor falls so far into obscurity.

[Ilan]

@Kraleck: This.

I'm thinking band Sucker Punch is the best set here. A revenge killer to set-up sweepers, it also provides a check to Ferrothorn with it's fire typing, as well as outspeeding the other wall-ish steels. It gets screwed by Terrakion though. Life Orb or Band is what I think.

Specs Heatmor might be ok, or even Expert Belt. Predict Heatran/Terrakion in and KO it with HP Ground. Then Volcarona or something has a clear sweep. You'd probably want a Donphan to cover it, because it can Spin, and make the opponent think you don't want them to switch often with SR, when you really want them to switch.

When you say Choice Band NU sucker punch there is a better pokemon who comes to mind (absol).

@sbktdreed: 170 EVs are not divisible by 4.. if you ever played Pokemon online you should have notice that the EV go by 4..

also don't use low powered moves... no reon to that or gmmicks...


oh and prediction to the next week:magikarp

[Kraleck]

Thanks, Ilan. Sucker Punch is the one thing that allows Heatmor to rise above the obscurity. However, a lack of STAB, above-average-bordering-good Attack, and the fact most Rock, Water, or Ground Types have either considerable bulk or considerable Defense makes Sucker Punch a sucker bet over switching out.

Knowing that Sucker Punch is probably Heatmor's best option if it stays (and is likely Choice Band boosted) gives a quasi-free switch to an opponent:
-Being locked into a 5 (now 4) PP Move without dealing damage on the previous turn gives an opponent a free chance to Stealth Rock if they won't survive S.Punch or a likely-1-hit KO if they will.
-Switching out gives an opponent a free chance to Stealth Rock, buff, switch again, or chip damage off of Heatmor's replacement or a chance to use Pursuit (and, again, likely-1-hit KO you).
-Extremespeed always has top priority. If 5th Gen holds the same S.Punch mechanic as 4th, you'll do no damage and waste another PP by staying in. Fortunately, only Arcanine, the Dratini line (via Breeding), Smeargle (via Sketch), Rayquaza, Lucario, Togekiss, and Arceus can have it.

[Archstaraptor]

Well, unlike Heatmor, Lanturn has an HP stat.

I'll bet Heatmor would at least be 2HKOed by a Mienshao.

...assuming it isn't OHKOed by Heatmor's usable offenses first-is it really the case that its HP is that bad?

Upon second inspection...
@Leftovers 252 HP/252 Def
A:Flash fire
Stockpile
Flamethrower
Will-o-wisp/Body Slam
Sucker Punch/Fire Spin

I'm convinced that Heatmor could do quite well provided EVs are put in the right places.But perhaps Rest might not be best if its HP & defences are as bad as Zachmac says.
Switch into fire move.Set up,with added support from burn(which makes up for "poor" stats).Sucker Punch is there as a strong priority,but for setting up,fire spin(which will be dealing good damage after a flash fire boost) provides you three/four turns to set up-which is ample providing your opponent doesn't have any ground breaking ways to counter you.
It's hit or miss,but if you trap a fire type,they're unlikely to be carrying a super effective move against it,plus their STAB will be useless.
Sucker Punch is a really handy move that Heatmor can utilise,but I don't think that's the only thing this pokemon can do-if it doesn't work in singles it could work elsewhere,where people are more reluctant to switch pokemon out.

[Ilan]

...assuming it isn't OHKOed by Heatmor's usable offenses first-is it really the case that its HP is that bad?

Upon second inspection...
@Leftovers 252 HP/252 Def
A:Flash fire
Stockpile
Flamethrower
Will-o-wisp/Body Slam
Sucker Punch/Fire Spin

I'm convinced that Heatmor could do quite well provided EVs are put in the right places.But perhaps Rest might not be best if its HP & defences are as bad as Zachmac says.
Switch into fire move.Set up,with added support from burn(which makes up for "poor" stats).Sucker Punch is there as a strong priority,but for setting up,fire spin(which will be dealing good damage after a flash fire boost) provides you three/four turns to set up-which is ample providing your opponent doesn't have any ground breaking ways to counter you.
It's hit or miss,but if you trap a fire type,they're unlikely to be carrying a super effective move against it,plus their STAB will be useless.
Sucker Punch is a really handy move that Heatmor can utilise,but I don't think that's the only thing this pokemon can do-if it doesn't work in singles it could work elsewhere,where people are more reluctant to switch pokemon out.

Instead of trying to do something frail bulky why not use something bulky in the first place?
it is outclassed by clefable in that role anyway.

[Blue Harvest]

Heatmore has to be one of the worst Pokemon in the game.

Then again it's shiny sprite is pretty cool.

[jesusfreak94]

Well, I tried to find something that Heatmor can do that no other Fire type in NU can do. I pretty much ran a Fire Spin trapper set with Curse and Pursuit to trap, set up on, and beat Misdreavus. It tends to work decently since Heatmor is immune to Will-O-Wisp and, with some special bulk investment, takes little from Missy's Shadow Ball's. However, it would only work about half of the time due to the opponent either switching out before I can land a Fire Spin or Taunting me. Still, I did find that Heatmor can actually utilize Pursuit to some success. If it comes in on opponents like Exeggutor and Jynx, it can actually kill them off with Pursuit as they switch out in fear of a STAB Fire attack.

So yeah, there's...something.

[Archstaraptor]

Instead of trying to do something frail bulky why not use something bulky in the first place?
it is outclassed by clefable in that role anyway.

Unlike Clefable,Heatmor actually resists things,so it's going to be useful in more situations and can pack a bigger punch.Clefable isn't too amazing anyway,Magic Guard or not.
But this isn't the place to compare,really:we apreciate Heatmor's attributes this week for once-Its offenses are great,and it has flash fire to soup its special attacks up,and in addition it has a really nice movepool to go with it.So what if its defences are sub par?If it can set up,it'll be more durable-and it also has a powerful sucker punch to play with if in a sticky situation.
You can't make promises,because being a fire type has big disadvantages.But it has the potential to be quite versatile-and it looks cool at the same time.And I'll leave it there.

[sbktdreed]

It's suprising that Heatmor doesn't know Overheat. It's too bad because I could of added some ideas on that; even without White Smoke.

[Barbeller]

Well, Heatmor has no niche whatsoever so whatever set you choose it's outclassed. As I said, CB/LO Sucker Punch is probably it's only good set, even if it is outclassed by Absol. Also, Absol shouldn't have Band really, SD is better.