View Poll Results: What Pokemon has most significantly changed the game because of its DW ability?

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  • Drizzle Politoed

    64 28.57%
  • Magic Bounce Espeon

    21 9.38%
  • Multiscale Dragonite

    31 13.84%
  • Speed Boost Blaziken

    46 20.54%
  • Drought Ninetales

    12 5.36%
  • Chlorophyll Venusaur

    5 2.23%
  • Hydration Vaporeon

    1 0.45%
  • Poison Heal Gliscor

    11 4.91%
  • Magic Guard Alakazam

    8 3.57%
  • Insomnia Delibird

    25 11.16%
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Thread: Best Released Dream World Pokemon

  1. #1
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    Default Best Released Dream World Pokemon

    The ramifications of Dream World abilities have in large part set the tone for the style of play in the 5th generation competitive metagame. Many titans have emerged to both fundamentally reshape old strategies and introduce new ones, while a supporting cast of lesser DW Pokemon have given many old dogs new tricks. If any one Pokemon has been most improved by the Dream World and has had the biggest impact on the overall metagame, across all the tiers, which one would it be?

    I've assembled a list of what I think are the top 10 contenders. If you can think of any I've forgotten, feel free to flame remind me. They are roughly ranked according to my own opinion.


    1. Drizzle Politoed

    Undeniably one of the most zero-to-hero Pokemon to have ever existed in any tier or any generation, and a strong contender for most significant DW Pokemon. Drizzle Politoed brought the infinite rain only ubers had previously known down into standard play, and with it made permanent rain just as viable of a strategy as Tyranitar did with sand. While Politoed itself isn't necessarily significant, the rain associated with it has allowed many other Pokemon to shine or suffer. Ferrothorn and Scizor arguably saw their meteoric rise to stardom actualize so easily because of rain teams removing their 4x Fire weakness, rain stall and offensive rain teams became a major staple of OU play, and Smogon even introduced a dreaded complex ban as a result of how Politoed meshed with Swift Swimmers in the form of Aldaron's Proposal.


    2. Magic Bounce Espeon

    If Pokemon was just about direct damaging moves, the person who could get the biggest, fastest stick the quickest would always win. Dealing indirect damage through status moves, entry hazards and phasing/Taunting is an important part of intelligent competitive play. Magic Bounce not only keeps your opponent from using these things on you, but even makes them bounce back at him. Don't have something to lay rocks for you? Get an Espeon and not only can you lay them, you can protect your own side of the field from them. Need to keep your sweeper safe from status? An Espeon can not only protect your frail sweeper, but cripple the other side while doing it. Fear your Baton Passing chain is about to be broken, or need something to pass to? Switch in your Espeon and watch your opponent Taunt himself. Espeon has in many ways become both a great troll and a great anti-troll through its nearly exclusive DW ability.


    3. Multiscale Dragonite

    The bulkier version of Salamence went from being a good replacement when his Hoenn cousin went to ubers in DPPt to being the third most used Pokemon in OU simply because of Multiscale. Dragonite's ability makes it one of the most difficult-to-break tanks in the game. Solid defensive stats and great defensive typing have always made it the bulky compliment to Salamence's ability to sweep, but Multiscale combined with Roost makes it a nightmare for nearly everything to try and break. Meanwhile, it is still a very capable offensive titan on either attacking stat, making whittling it down a poor option to combat it. Stealth Rock and Mamoswine are still its bane, but having a few cracks in the armor doesn't make it a bad wall. Its meteoric rise in usage certainly guarantees it a spot among the Dream World's most improved.


    4. Speed Boost Blaziken

    To my knowledge, the only Pokemon to be outright banned to ubers as a result of a Dream World ability. Protect on the first turn to get +1 Speed, Swords Dance on the second turn while they break your Sash to get +2/+2, and Protect again on the third turn to get to +2/+3. After just three turns of fairly safe setup, Blaziken is ready to lay waste to the field before it with its great offensive STABs and blazing power and speed. No other Pokemon has been so directly changed as a result of a Dream World ability as Blaziken has been.


    5. Drought Ninetales

    The compliment to Drizzle Politoed, Ninetales has brought Groudon's sun into OU in just the same way Politoed brought Kyogre's rain. While sun teams are admittedly much less common than sand or rain, the effective change on the Pokemon itself is the same between Politoed and Ninetales. Many of the same things that made Politoed impressive are also true for Ninetales, making it at least a reasonable candidate.


    6. Chlorophyll Venusaur

    While Venusaur would be admittedly much less effective without Drought Ninetales, Ninetales would also have little to show for itself without Venusaur soaking up its sun. The original starter Pokemon gained Chlorophyll through the Dream World, and going off of an already decent base 80 Speed, Venusaur is easily the best user of the ability in standard play. With a well rounded movepool and Growth turning to +2/+2 under sun, Venusaur is a strong, versatile sweeper when given sun support thanks to its Dream World ability.


    7. Hydration Vaporeon

    Unlike Espeon who completely changed roles as a result of its Dream World ability, Vaporeon gaining Hydration was like a good wine aging to its peak. Vaporeon's pure Water typing and excellent defensive stats have always made it a premiere tank. When set out under Politoed's rain however, any dents that are made in Vaporeon's acid armor can be instantly repaired. Hydration Rest allows Vaporeon to completely heal itself and remove status in just one turn, not only giving it a better healing mechanism than the likes of Roost or Recover, but also making toxic stalling completely ineffective against it. An already great wall became practically impervious when under rain thanks to its Dream World ability.


    8. Poison Heal Gliscor

    Vaporeon and Gliscor actually gained very similar improvements through their Dream World abilities. Both were already excellent walls/tanks, and both gained an ability that gives them excellent recovery, while also making status completely ineffective against them. However, while Vaporeon's Hydration is more dramatic and fast-acting, it requires rain to work. Gliscor only needs a Toxic Orb and one turn of Protect to be set for the whole match. Not only does it gain steady recovery more quickly than Leftovers could ever give it, it also keeps it safe from Burn and Poison. The only real downside it that Roost is illegal with it.


    9. Magic Guard Alakazam

    Sand teams are the most common form of weather users right now. However, while sand will benefit most Rock-, Ground- and Steel-types who aren't hurt by the residual damage, you can't construct an entire team out of them. You have to have some other types represented, but they're going to be hurt by your sand. What to do? Alakazam has the Speed and Special Attack built in to be an extremely dangerous sweeper as soon as he enters the field, and is unaffected by the residual damage of sand or hail teams. He also can't be statused, can't be hurt by entry hazards, and only gains benefits from a Life Orb. Alakazam (or at least a Magic Guard user) is a staple on sand teams because of his great Dream World ability. This is the first time to my knowledge he has been OU since Generation 1.


    10. Insomnia Delibird

    Do I even need to explain this one? I was saving the best for last. He might not look like much, but Delibird is secretly one of the most devastating sweepers-cross-walls-cross-supporters in the game. I mean, giving him Insomnia? Over Vital Spirit? That's the very definition of sleeper OP (no pun intended). I don't even know why I made a poll, honestly; you know you're going to vote for this guy, right?

  2. #2
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    Prankster Sableye and Sheer Force Nidoking deserve mentions as well


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    Wow. This is a tough one. All Pokemon mentioned above improved from the Dream World, and each in their own way. I personally am going to vote for Blaziken just because of Speed Boost. I mean, getting banned to Ubers just because of your ability combined with great attacking stats? That sounds like an incredible improvement IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    Prankster Sableye and Sheer Force Nidoking deserve mentions as well
    I agree with this completely. Sableye is one of the most epic trolls in the game. i can't decide which one impacted the entire game the most, but i guess as much as i hate it, it'd be Drizzletoed. Every other team runs rain these days. I'm probably going to be voting for Gliscor or Dnite though.
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    Politoed, Ninetails, Blaziken, and Dragonite are the best released.
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    Multiscale Dragonite due to the fact that attacks like Wring Out's damage will be suppressed. Or moves like Power Gem and Ice Beam. By far my favorite combination in Dream World.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcario97 View Post
    Multiscale Dragonite due to the fact that attacks like Wring Out's damage will be suppressed. Or moves like Power Gem and Ice Beam. By far my favorite combination in Dream World.
    yea, what's even better about it is with Roost, if you can Roost up to multiscale level, it's like Ice Type attacks aren't super effective at all, with it's flying type being neutralized and multiscale cutting the damage in half. very easy to PP stall the ice moves out
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    Infernape
    Ability: Iron Fist
    Cloyster
    Ability: Skill Link
    Salamence
    Ability: Moxie
    Gyarados
    Ability: Moxie
    Gastrodon
    Ability: Storm Drain
    Tentacruel
    Ability: Rain Dish
    Slowbro
    Ability: Regenerator

    Now these, these should get mentions


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    Dragonite, I liked it and just as I was about to use Salamence Multiscale happened, now I like it even more.

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    Blaziken from my personal experience.
    This is a battle. Of course it's gonna be unfair. That which is called 'battle' was a monster originally born of unfairness and intolerance. I can't stand that guy. I can beat that guy. I can't forgive that guy. We make enemies for all sorts of reasons, and from the moment you make an enemy, until one of you draws his last breath - you're in a battle.

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    I was going to vote Blaziken, but the biggest effect on the game? There is no doubt Politoed, providing some of the best support for steel and water types in the entire game, and turning pokemon like Gyarados into far more dangerous sweepers then before, and making Ferrothorn and Jirachi less wary of random HP fires.

    Also, a lot of those pokemon you listed were either good(Gliscor, Dragonite, Vappy, and Delibird) or halfway decent(Alakazam, Espeon, Blaziken). Ninetails and Politoed are the only ones on that list that went from sucky to top-threats, and Politoed is seeing much more use then Ninetails.

    Yes, Dragonite got an amazing ability, but is it really the "most improved", and did it really have the largest effect on the game?

    I almost voted for Delibird, though. Best counter for Shroomish and Paras there is.
    Cloyster
    Ability: Skill Link
    That's not a DW ability. In fact, Cloyster got a rather useless DW ability in overcoat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    I was going to vote Blaziken, but the biggest effect on the game? There is no doubt Politoed, providing some of the best support for steel and water types in the entire game, and turning pokemon like Gyarados into far more dangerous sweepers then before, and making Ferrothorn and Jirachi less wary of random HP fires.

    Also, a lot of those pokemon you listed were either good(Gliscor, Dragonite, Vappy, and Delibird) or halfway decent(Alakazam, Espeon, Blaziken). Ninetails and Politoed are the only ones on that list that went from sucky to top-threats, and Politoed is seeing much more use then Ninetails.

    Yes, Dragonite got an amazing ability, but is it really the "most improved", and did it really have the largest effect on the game?

    I almost voted for Delibird, though. Best counter for Shroomish and Paras there is.That's not a DW ability. In fact, Cloyster got a rather useless DW ability in overcoat.
    you are indeed right, the weather bringers have definitely had the biggest impact on the metagame. I voted for Dnite though, simply because i hate rain teams. they're jerks.
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    Politoed has had the biggest impact in my opinion, ninetails just isn't used as much. Dragonites ability, while useful, just doesn't seem to have made it that much more played


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    #DELIBIRD2012
    Let's do this!
    EDIT: Let's all follow the original Pokemon Ultimate Handbook. DELIBIRD FOR LEGENDARY!!!
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    Poiltoad. Rain Teams are the most effective weather teams, and Politoad used to be in NU.

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    Totally Politoed.With the flaming chick sent to Ubers,Politoed wins hands down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
    Infernape
    Ability: Iron Fist
    Cloyster
    Ability: Skill Link
    Salamence
    Ability: Moxie
    Gyarados
    Ability: Moxie
    Gastrodon
    Ability: Storm Drain
    Tentacruel
    Ability: Rain Dish
    Slowbro
    Ability: Regenerator

    Now these, these should get mentions
    Iron Fist hasn't been released, and hasn't had a huge effect as most of his attacks aren't punches.
    Skill Link has been out since fourth gen.
    Storm Drain isn't DW.

    But yeah, besides the intense weather this gen, there are maybe 20 other pokemon who got an amazing boost this gen.
    Guts on Luxray is one of them. While it still has a fairly mediocre move-pool, Guts sets it apart from Electivire, making Wild Charge even more powerful.


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    You forgot Damp Jellicent. He's much better than insomnia delibird.

    I vote for multiscale dragonite because your weather starters and espeon won't do much when he gets a +1+1
    Yep we should ban baton pass, and weather too. Oh and Trick Room, I'm tired of having to worry about Trick Room all the time. Just ban the move Trick Room, and prankster, it's broken. Ban all status moves on prankster users, they're too cheap. Oh and ban Probopass to it's so cheap. Just ban everything except Magikarp with splash.
    Well, actually Blaziken isn't really Uber because some people whined about how they were getting owned by it. I mean, it doesn't stand a chance in the Uber enviroment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irock245 View Post
    I vote for multiscale dragonite because your weather starters and espeon won't do much when he gets a +1+1
    Espeon can set up Screens and confuse Dnight, Politoad can Ice Beam his face :3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Soperman View Post
    Espeon can set up Screens and confuse Dnight, Politoad can Ice Beam his face :3
    Only if they can outspeed it, though.
    I vote for multiscale dragonite because your weather starters and espeon won't do much when he gets a +1+1
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    lol if you didnt vote Poison Heal Gliscor, you dont know **** about OU. Multiscale Draginite cant do **** to him and he has 2 different sets that completely beat Dnite

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    Quote Originally Posted by jle1076 View Post
    lol if you didnt vote Poison Heal Gliscor, you dont know **** about OU. Multiscale Draginite cant do **** to him and he has 2 different sets that completely beat Dnite
    Actually, I've found Sand Veil works just as well, if not better than Poison Heal. Especially in the sand, nothing can hit Gliscor, and he still works as an excellent wall.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    The ramifications of Dream World abilities have in large part set the tone for the style of play in the 5th generation competitive metagame. Many titans have emerged to both fundamentally reshape old strategies and introduce new ones, while a supporting cast of lesser DW Pokemon have given many old dogs new tricks. If any one Pokemon has been most improved by the Dream World and has had the biggest impact on the overall metagame, across all the tiers, which one would it be?

    I've assembled a list of what I think are the top 10 contenders. If you can think of any I've forgotten, feel free to flame remind me. They are roughly ranked according to my own opinion.


    1. Drizzle Politoed

    Undeniably one of the most zero-to-hero Pokemon to have ever existed in any tier or any generation, and a strong contender for most significant DW Pokemon. Drizzle Politoed brought the infinite rain only ubers had previously known down into standard play, and with it made permanent rain just as viable of a strategy as Tyranitar did with sand. While Politoed itself isn't necessarily significant, the rain associated with it has allowed many other Pokemon to shine or suffer. Ferrothorn and Scizor arguably saw their meteoric rise to stardom actualize so easily because of rain teams removing their 4x Fire weakness, rain stall and offensive rain teams became a major staple of OU play, and Smogon even introduced a dreaded complex ban as a result of how Politoed meshed with Swift Swimmers in the form of Aldaron's Proposal.
    Definitely the biggest influence in this metagame. Literally, he pretty much threw the idea of weather wars as the defining characteristic of the Generation.
    In terms of improvement, Politoed didn't really gain anything outside of a boosted Water STABs. Still the same Politoed from previous gens, only with Drizzle to support its teammates but no self-improvement.


    2. Magic Bounce Espeon

    If Pokemon was just about direct damaging moves, the person who could get the biggest, fastest stick the quickest would always win. Dealing indirect damage through status moves, entry hazards and phasing/Taunting is an important part of intelligent competitive play. Magic Bounce not only keeps your opponent from using these things on you, but even makes them bounce back at him. Don't have something to lay rocks for you? Get an Espeon and not only can you lay them, you can protect your own side of the field from them. Need to keep your sweeper safe from status? An Espeon can not only protect your frail sweeper, but cripple the other side while doing it. Fear your Baton Passing chain is about to be broken, or need something to pass to? Switch in your Espeon and watch your opponent Taunt himself. Espeon has in many ways become both a great troll and a great anti-troll through its nearly exclusive DW ability.
    Espeon definitely improved in both the Support and Offense department. Magic Bounce pretty much hinders Stall and Defensive based strategies, as some of its major weapons Taunt, Phazing, Status, and entry hazards are easily bounced back at the opponent. While Support is mentionable, I feel that it is its offensive prowess. Simply put, the ability to not be Taunted, not be Phazed, and not be affected by status moves makes it one of the most viable boosting sweepers out there, and with the dawn of Baton Pass legality and Stored Power, it hits like a friggin' truck as well as pass immensely-boosted stats to teammates.

    3. Multiscale Dragonite

    The bulkier version of Salamence went from being a good replacement when his Hoenn cousin went to ubers in DPPt to being the third most used Pokemon in OU simply because of Multiscale. Dragonite's ability makes it one of the most difficult-to-break tanks in the game. Solid defensive stats and great defensive typing have always made it the bulky compliment to Salamence's ability to sweep, but Multiscale combined with Roost makes it a nightmare for nearly everything to try and break. Meanwhile, it is still a very capable offensive titan on either attacking stat, making whittling it down a poor option to combat it. Stealth Rock and Mamoswine are still its bane, but having a few cracks in the armor doesn't make it a bad wall. Its meteoric rise in usage certainly guarantees it a spot among the Dream World's most improved.

    Not many new toys, but an interesting, new ability. It really diversified Dragonite to fill in every single niche possible, from setup sweeper, to Rain abuser, to Rain wallbreaker, to Tank, to Rain Tank, to Neo MixNite, to choice band ... you name it. Compared to last Gen, he really improved a lot.

    4. Speed Boost Blaziken

    To my knowledge, the only Pokemon to be outright banned to ubers as a result of a Dream World ability. Protect on the first turn to get +1 Speed, Swords Dance on the second turn while they break your Sash to get +2/+2, and Protect again on the third turn to get to +2/+3. After just three turns of fairly safe setup, Blaziken is ready to lay waste to the field before it with its great offensive STABs and blazing power and speed. No other Pokemon has been so directly changed as a result of a Dream World ability as Blaziken has been.

    This really goes without saying. It was already a fearsome offensive sweeper/wallbreaker back in Gen 4 UU. The only true thing that actually held it back is its speed, which was too slow for OU's incredibly high speed threshold. Get rid of that barrier, and overkill it with a move that adds more speed to it, and it's pretty much damn near impossible to take out.

    5. Drought Ninetales

    The compliment to Drizzle Politoed, Ninetales has brought Groudon's sun into OU in just the same way Politoed brought Kyogre's rain. While sun teams are admittedly much less common than sand or rain, the effective change on the Pokemon itself is the same between Politoed and Ninetales. Many of the same things that made Politoed impressive are also true for Ninetales, making it at least a reasonable candidate.

    Same reasoning as Politoed, just a tool that supports teammates and really doesn't self-improve much.

    6. Chlorophyll Venusaur

    While Venusaur would be admittedly much less effective without Drought Ninetales, Ninetales would also have little to show for itself without Venusaur soaking up its sun. The original starter Pokemon gained Chlorophyll through the Dream World, and going off of an already decent base 80 Speed, Venusaur is easily the best user of the ability in standard play. With a well rounded movepool and Growth turning to +2/+2 under sun, Venusaur is a strong, versatile sweeper when given sun support thanks to its Dream World ability.

    Really nice and really solid, that would be how I describe it. The extra speed make Venusaur a great revenge killer under the sun. Furthermore, Growth becomes SD + NP all in one, making it that much more scary. Too bad no one really likes Ninetales all that much.

    7. Hydration Vaporeon

    Unlike Espeon who completely changed roles as a result of its Dream World ability, Vaporeon gaining Hydration was like a good wine aging to its peak. Vaporeon's pure Water typing and excellent defensive stats have always made it a premiere tank. When set out under Politoed's rain however, any dents that are made in Vaporeon's acid armor can be instantly repaired. Hydration Rest allows Vaporeon to completely heal itself and remove status in just one turn, not only giving it a better healing mechanism than the likes of Roost or Recover, but also making toxic stalling completely ineffective against it. An already great wall became practically impervious when under rain thanks to its Dream World ability.

    A nice improvement, but definitely not all that influential. 60% of Vaporeons out there still run Water Abosrb over this, though it allows it to be a hard wall to break or a powerful LO sweeper in the Rain, but there usually are better things to use.

    8. Poison Heal Gliscor

    Vaporeon and Gliscor actually gained very similar improvements through their Dream World abilities. Both were already excellent walls/tanks, and both gained an ability that gives them excellent recovery, while also making status completely ineffective against them. However, while Vaporeon's Hydration is more dramatic and fast-acting, it requires rain to work. Gliscor only needs a Toxic Orb and one turn of Protect to be set for the whole match. Not only does it gain steady recovery more quickly than Leftovers could ever give it, it also keeps it safe from Burn and Poison. The only real downside it that Roost is illegal with it.
    It's really a great improvement for it in a few ways. For starters, it makes it a better bulky sweeper that's immune to status and gets a huge 12.5% recovery boost every turn. This also allows it to become a really scary stallbreaker that is better than last generation's version of it imo.

    9. Magic Guard Alakazam

    Sand teams are the most common form of weather users right now. However, while sand will benefit most Rock-, Ground- and Steel-types who aren't hurt by the residual damage, you can't construct an entire team out of them. You have to have some other types represented, but they're going to be hurt by your sand. What to do? Alakazam has the Speed and Special Attack built in to be an extremely dangerous sweeper as soon as he enters the field, and is unaffected by the residual damage of sand or hail teams. He also can't be statused, can't be hurt by entry hazards, and only gains benefits from a Life Orb. Alakazam (or at least a Magic Guard user) is a staple on sand teams because of his great Dream World ability. This is the first time to my knowledge he has been OU since Generation 1.
    Still frail, but at least it can revenge kill stuff without automatically dying on the switch.

    10. Insomnia Delibird

    Do I even need to explain this one? I was saving the best for last. He might not look like much, but Delibird is secretly one of the most devastating sweepers-cross-walls-cross-supporters in the game. I mean, giving him Insomnia? Over Vital Spirit? That's the very definition of sleeper OP (no pun intended). I don't even know why I made a poll, honestly; you know you're going to vote for this guy, right?
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    Dragonite, so powerful

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A handful of dust
    Posts
    2,992

    Default

    So, what? Moody Bibarel doesn't get a mention because Smogon banned it on their servers? Unlike most Pokemon on that list, it has the ability to carry a match through on its own most of the time.

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