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Thread: Community POTW #71

  1. #51
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    Pidgeot should be put in the DUE tier (Don't Use EVER). If you want to use Pidgeot even in NU, it's severely outclassed by Braviary and even Fearow. FEAROW.

    The only niche Pidgeot has is SubRoost, and that's not even much of a niche with Articuno having better defenses and Pressure.
    Last edited by Vandslaux; 8th May 2012 at 12:14 AM.


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  2. #52
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    Pidgeot gets a decent 76 base Special Attack (decent compared to all other normal / flyers) and Work Up with Heat Wave so it is potentially the only Normal / Flying bird that can muscle through Skarmory while still hitting with a powerful Physical STAB.

  3. #53
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    Ah Pidgeot, the original bird. Severely outclassed in most of its traditional roles, you'd be surprised to hear that Pidgeot can actually pull a Rain Team role.

    Flying in the Rain
    EV: 126 Atk, 126 Sp Atk, 252 Spd
    Nature: Something to increase Sp Atack
    Item:
    -Damp Rock: Rain support, so whaddya expect? sides, does Pidgeot have much else?
    Ability: Basically depends on what you want to deal with. Keen Eye prevents accuracy loss, Big Pecks prevents Defense loss, and Tangled Feet speeds up when confused.
    Moves:
    -Rain Dance: At first glance it's an odd move, but Pidgeot can learn it and use it for rain team support. Plus, it doesn't really have much else to put in its place.
    -Hurricane: Pidgeot isn't a special sweeper (in either sense of the phrase) by any means, but it has what it takes to make use of this move. With rain support, you basically have a flying-type Thunder with a chance of confusion. Given Pidgeots limited moveset, this'll be your bread and butter. Use it to wipe out common enemies, and if you're lucky even a Volcarona or two.
    -Brave Bird: Pidgeots strength (however little that is) lies primarily in Attack, so make use of that. Brave Bird grants a physical attack STAB move that deals nasty damage, but deals a portion of that back to Pidgeot. With such a fragile Pokemon, that can be very dangerous.
    -Steel Wing/U-Turn: Pretty much based on what you wanna do with Pidgeot. Keep hitting and die, or run away and live to die another time. Steel Wing gives Pidgeot something to use against Rock and Ice types for a nasty surprise. U-turn serves as a quick getaway from Pokemon you don't want Pidgeot facing, while still dealing some damage.

    Other Options:
    -Twister: A unique little niche for Pidgeot to use against weak Dragons. One of the only Normal-types to learn it period, Dragons probably won't see it coming.
    -Agility: Makes Pidgeot a faster little birdie. Good luck if you think you can survive long enough to use it.

    Counters:
    Rock. Ice. Steel. That is all.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetFlare View Post
    ...Choice Scarf does the same move-locking as Choice Band, dude.
    You don't say??!!! Have you read my moveset?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    Featherdance can effectively neutralize a physical attacker. Pidgeot has a base Speed of 91, which is just barely above threats like Lucario or Excadrill. If Pidgeot is partnered with a Pokémon with low Defense, or you're just up against a troublesome physical attacker, Featherdance will slow them down enough to get the edge. If the physical attacker is faster than Pidgeot, then you should have Protect on Pidgeot's partner as your opponent will likely go after the partner instead. Featherdance will hit both of the opponent's Pokémon (unless one of them has Protect or something), so if they're reliant on physical attacking, you can tear through them with even one Featherdance.
    Last I checked, Featherdance only affected the chosen target.

    http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/featherdance.shtml
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Probably the worst normal / flying type in the game though.
    No, I believe that "honor" would go to Farfetch'd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraleck View Post
    Last I checked, Featherdance only affected the chosen target.

    http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/featherdance.shtml
    Really? I looked on Bulbapedia and it said that it affects all opponents in double battles and all adjacent Pokémon in triple battles.

  8. #58
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    Counters-lots. Dusknoir first. Immune to most attacks from pidgeot and fights with a ice punch. Also,frostlass with ice beam to destroy it.

  9. #59
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    Ophie, FeatherDance can TARGET adjacent Pokemon. If it could hit all opposing Pokemon that would be so beast!

    Unfortunately even Pidgeot is easily outclassed in Triple Battles. Braviery can offer the same support but with vastly better damage and better damaging movepool. I would even suggest Mantine over Pidgeot for support as only a handful of Pokemon can use Wide Guard.

    Look on the bright side of it's stats, they are not like Swoobats... Until Swoobat gets it's Dream World and abuses the !@#$ out of Calm Mind, Roost and Stored Power.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    Really? I looked on Bulbapedia and it said that it affects all opponents in double battles and all adjacent Pokémon in triple battles.
    I think you may have a different Move in mind. I just checked Featherdance on Bulbapedia. You may have its target area confused with Teeter Dance, which affects all surrounding Pokemon.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Pidgeot gets a decent 76 base Special Attack (decent compared to all other normal / flyers) and Work Up with Heat Wave so it is potentially the only Normal / Flying bird that can muscle through Skarmory while still hitting with a powerful Physical STAB.
    Only problem is, Skarmory would probably KO Pidgeot with Brave Bird first.


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  12. #62
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    The point is to Work Up on something that will switch out, like Breloom or Celebi. But Brave Bird usually only 3HKOs Pidegot anyway.

  13. #63
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    The reason why I put Hyper Beam in my set is so that when you have low hp and you will defiantly be KOed in the next turn you have a mega powerful attack that will probably KO the opponent if he as less than half HP and doesn't resist it and because the custub berry is activated you will most likely go first, hence my reason for the Custob Berry.

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomjames1966 View Post
    The reason why I put Hyper Beam in my set is so that when you have low hp and you will defiantly be KOed in the next turn you have a mega powerful attack that will probably KO the opponent if he as less than half HP and doesn't resist it and because the custub berry is activated you will most likely go first, hence my reason for the Custob Berry.
    And if you kill you let your opponent set up...


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  15. #65

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    It's pretty sad when the only thing Pidgeot can really use to differentiate itself is its almost-decent SpA stat. Even then, though, its main two niche special moves, Hurricane and Heat Wave, run into their own problems. Swanna and Pelipper are far better abusers of Hurricane, and the two most common Steels in NU, Probopass and Bastiodon, are neutral to Heat Wave. I've found that the best way to abuse that SpA stat is by running HP Ground to get past those two. Maybe something like this.

    Pidgeot@Life Orb
    Naive
    Tangled Feet
    252 Atk, 48 SpA, 208 Spe
    -Brave Bird
    -Return
    -HP Ground
    -Roost

    Kinda rough, but it's not like any other birds in NU can do this. 208 speed gives Pidgeot enough speed to outrun and revenge kill +0 base 85 speed Pokemon like Sawk, Pinsir, and everything slower. This also gives Pidgeot extra SpA, allowing it to have a good shot at beating some variants of Probopass and Bastiodon. Besides that, it just does what most other birds do: throw around Brave Birds and Returns and then Roost to heal off Life Orb, SR, and recoil damage. At least Pidgeot can sorta distinguish itself with a mixed LORoost set since it takes advantage of Pidgeot's main edges over the other birds: better bulk than Swellow, Fearow, and Dodrio, more speed than Braviary, and a usable SpA stat.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 10th May 2012 at 3:56 AM.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Probopass and Bastiodon
    Considering they have Base HP/Sp.Def of 60/150 and 60/138, respectively, they would have a considerable idea why you'd stay in/switch in with Pidgeot. Hidden Power (Fighting/Ground) may be well and good enough against them, but Probo' has access to Electric Type Moves (including Volt Switch to mess with your head) and Rock Type STAB, while Bastio' is a veritable Status flinger with access to Metal Burst. Not to mention both have access to the newly-buffed-for-Gen-5 Sturdy Ability. Either way, problematic to Pidgeot.
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  17. #67

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    The goal isn't to switch in and kill Probopass and Bastiodon, it's to hit them as they switch into you, something Swellow and Dodrio can't boast. It actually does a decent job of it, seeing as how physically defensive variants of either are pretty much always 2HKO'd after Rocks, and the specially defensive ones are usually 3HKO'd. Besides, the most powerful attack between the two of them, Probo's Power Gem, can't even hit 70% damage. That means that Pidgeot can actually hit specially defensive Probo on the switch, hit it a second time and take a Power Gem, and kill it the next turn while having just a sliver of extra health after Life Orb, enough for one last Brave Bird or something.

    That does give me an idea, though. Since U-turn + Life Orb really hurts in the long run, you could run Roost over it to actually tank Probopass and Bastiodon'd Rock STABs. That'll also let you throw around more Life Orb boosted Brave Birds and whatnot. In a way, a mixed Life Orb + Roost set would let Pidgeot take advantage of all of its edges above the other birds: decent bulk, good speed, and better SpA when compared to the others. Editing that in.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomjames1966 View Post
    The reason why I put Hyper Beam in my set is so that when you have low hp and you will defiantly be KOed in the next turn you have a mega powerful attack that will probably KO the opponent if he as less than half HP and doesn't resist it and because the custub berry is activated you will most likely go first, hence my reason for the Custob Berry.
    sounds nice, but most good players will take advantage of their free turn. Send in something that has substitute, swords dance, or something else along those lines.
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  19. #69
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    So you have to have a Blissy and Ferrothorn on your team to couter any swords dance/calm mind movesets and if you didn't KO the opponent he will beat your Pidgeot meaning that you might have to lose 2 pokemon instead of 1.

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  20. #70

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    First of all, what exactly do you think you'll be killing with Hyper Beam? Infernape is one of the frailest things in OU, and even it's never OHKO'd.

    Secondly, you're still giving the opponent a free setup. Normally a Pokemon will just have one turn to set up after they force you out, but using Hyper Beam gives them two. Take SubSD Terrakion for example. Normally it just throws up a SD or Sub depending on what your team looks like, but now it can just use Sub while you recharge and SD while you switch out. Now you've got to deal with a +2 Terrakion behind a Sub, which can tear a team to pieces and cannot even be revenge killed. Instead of using Hyper Beam and letting the opponent set up, you could just switch to something that can actually handle whatever comes in on Pidgeot.

    Third, Ferrothorn and Blissey are not near enough to beat all SD and CM sweepers. Not even close. Blissey can be 2HKO'd by CM Virizion's Focus Blast and Reuniclus with Psyshock easily threatens it. And what about SD Infernape, Virizion, Lucario, Terrakion, and Toxicroak?

    TL;DR: Don't use Hyper Beam. Please.

  21. #71
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    Unfortunately, the set that Jesus posted overlooked the recent addition of Charizard to NU. Charizard can do everything that Pidgeot can do, but better. It doesn't need to invest in a mixed spread, as it has access to Air Slash, and it still has Roost. Charizard even has better Speed. The only disadvantage is that Charizard can't switch in very well, but Pidgeot can't switch in on anything that it wants to counter or anything that Charizard can't switch in on.

    Also, Fearow has access to Drill Run, which hits 4x damage on both Batiodon and Probopass, meaning it can get past those, sort of leaving Pidgeot outclassed in another way.

  22. #72

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    No, I didn't overlook it. Charizard barely does anything that the Pidgeot set does. My set is mainly used to throw around powerful Brave Birds and Returns (which are a big deal in NU) and use HP Ground to help against some of its usual checks/counters. Charizard, on the other hand, just throws around powerful special attacks. They're hardly comparable. Also, Fearow has to settle for Drill Peck instead of Brave Bird, Pidgeot's main advantage over it, and it's considerably frailer.

    Keep I mind that my set is just an attempt to find something that Pidgeot can do that's unique. Sure, you can run a Choice set like Smogon suggests, but why not just use the faster and more powerful Dodrio or the bulkier and far more powerful Braviary, who has a much better way to remove Rock and Steel types? With LORoost, Pidgeot can take advantage of the fact that it has the second highest bulk of any other offensive Normal/Flying type in NU (and unlike Braviary, it gets Roost) and a good speed stat, while going mixed lets you actually take advantage of its usable SpA stat and threaten Rock and Steel types, something Dodrio and Swellow fail to do.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 10th May 2012 at 10:37 PM.

  23. #73
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    The SubRoost Charizard is the one I'm talking about. It's basically the same as that Pidgeot, but better. The large majority of rock types is NU aren't beaten by that set anyway, namely Regirock and Golem. Pidgeot also doesn't have a back-up against Rotom-S either, while Charizard can abuse the Substitute to KO another pokemon. Pidgeot might be good for KOing Bastiodon and Probopass, however they aren't as common as other rocks, so it would be a waste of space really, when you should be able to beat them anyway, with Absol, Braviary, Gorebyss, Vileplume, Sawk, Cinccino, as well as other pokemon. And Braviary does sort of outclass Pidgeot anyway, as there are a large amount of Wishers in NU to abuse. To be honest, Roost isn't even useful, as you're never going to be able to use it.

    Really, the biggest difference between Charizard and Pidgeot is that Charizard is specially based. The large amount of bulk in NU is physical, so that leaves Pidgeot pressured to find a way round Alomomola and Quagsire.

  24. #74
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    You do have a point Jesus. But if you were playing NU you wouldn't have most of the Pokemon you said above but I suppose you wouldn't have Blissy or Ferrothorn either. By the way the goal was to weaken a pokemon with other attacks and when you know your going to be KOed any second use Hyper Beam as a last ditch move possibly KOing the pokemon. But then the opponent has a free turn of set like you said so maybe use another move instead and only use Hyper Beam to nearly KO so you can have a priority move user to finish him off.

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  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbeller View Post
    The SubRoost Charizard is the one I'm talking about. It's basically the same as that Pidgeot, but better.
    No, they're just too different. They have different typings, different roles, different coverage, heck, they don't even attack from the same side of the offensive spectrum. Compare it to any of the other birds in the tier, but not Charizard.

    The large majority of rock types is NU aren't beaten by that set anyway, namely Regirock and Golem.
    To be fair, even CB Braviary cannot 2HKO physically defensive Regirock with Superpower. Seeing as how most Regirock are defensive, though, Pidgeot can easily stall out Stone Edge with Roost and then wear it down. Golem can also be 2HKO'd by HP Ground after Stealth Rock.

    Pidgeot also doesn't have a back-up against Rotom-S either, while Charizard can abuse the Substitute to KO another pokemon.
    Sure it does. Return very easily 2HKOs, which is how all the other birds take care of it.

    Pidgeot might be good for KOing Bastiodon and Probopass, however they aren't as common as other rocks, so it would be a waste of space really, when you should be able to beat them anyway, with Absol, Braviary, Gorebyss, Vileplume, Sawk, Cinccino, as well as other pokemon.
    Except those others aren't the Pokemon of the Week; Pidgeot is. The goal here is to figure out how to give it a niche, not decide what Pokemon can do it better. Honestly, how many Normal/Flying types give Pidgeot competition? Four: Swellow, Braviary, Dodrio, and Fearow. How many can break through Rock and Steel types at all? Two: Fearow and Braviary. How many of those learn Roost? One: Fearow, and Pidgeot has the advantage here of better bulk and a much more powerful Flying STAB in Brave Bird. And Probopass/Bastiodon have enough usage in NU to warrant "OU" status, so they're plenty common.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd rather use Braviary 99% of the time, but at least this gives Pidgeot something that the other birds can't do as well. There is no one bird that can completely outclass this set, and that's all you can really ask for with Pidgeot.

    And Braviary does sort of outclass Pidgeot anyway, as there are a large amount of Wishers in NU to abuse. To be honest, Roost isn't even useful, as you're never going to be able to use it.
    You can't just say Braviary can just have a Wish passing teammate, because that doesn't have near the efficiency of Roost. While Pidgeot can just spam Roost to stall out weak Stone Edges and whatnot from defensive Regirock/Bastiodon/etc., Braviary would have to switch in and out just to get decent healing. Besides, "I can just run a Wish passer" just falls into the same category as "It can sweep if I have a good Baton Passer."

    Really, the biggest difference between Charizard and Pidgeot is that Charizard is specially based. The large amount of bulk in NU is physical, so that leaves Pidgeot pressured to find a way round Alomomola and Quagsire.
    All birds have trouble with Alomomola. None of them can 2HKO it without some prior damage. Quagsire's also pretty tough in general. Even Braviary needs a Life Orb or CB to have a shot at 2HKOing it.

    Look, I don't mind if something like a Choice Band set gets put up, because Pidgeot is perfectly capable of using it, but think about it. Braviary has more bulk and way more power, as well as Superpower. Dodrio has much more speed and power. In fact, it can go Adamant for even more power and still have plenty of speed. Swellow is stronger than CB Pidgeot after Guts, faster, immune to status once Toxic Orb has been activated, can switch moves, and can run the exact same set except with a more powerful Facade over Return. The only bird that doesn't have a huge advantage in that department is Fearow, and that's just because of the lack of Brave Bird (even though it does still have Drill Run). All I'm trying to do is find something that Pidgeot can actually succeed at that doesn't leave it completely overshadowed by its Normal/Flyin brethren.

    Oh, and I have tried it a little in NU, and it's not bad at all.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 11th May 2012 at 7:49 PM.

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