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Thread: Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus Sacred Beast Forme

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    So apparently there's a possible report of the genie trio's new stats.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=227

    Tornadus-T is gonna be pretty cool. Base 121 speed in insane, and at least it maintains very nice 100/110 offenses. I was hoping for a little more bulk, though, since 79/80/90 defenses are pretty modest at best.

    Thundurus-T and Landorus-T are going to be crazy with those base 145 offensive stats. Landorus's decreases in speed and SpA might be enough to keep it in check...sorta...but Thundurus still maintains good speed and threatens to be an even more threatening Nasty Plot sweeper with such an incredible SpA stat. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.
    Unfortunately, I doubt those stats are enough to keep it OU. Also, just in case any people can use that link or can't be bothered to scroll down it, the stats are

    Tornadus - T - 79 HP / 100 Atk / 80 Def / 121 Spe / 110 SAtk / 90 SDef
    Thundurus - T - 79 HP / 105 Atk / 70 Def / 101 Spe / 145 SAtk / 80 SDef
    Landorus - T - 89 HP / 145 Atk / 90 Def / 91 Spe / 105 SAtk / 80 SDef

    Bye bye defensive Torny-T, hello uber Landy-T and nothing new for Thundy-T.

    I can see a Scarf set being very popular for Landy, and it will possibly outclass Terrakion for the time it stays in OU, because it's Stone Edges and Earthquakes will be more powerful, but the fact it doesn't have access to Close Combat is a downer. Also, Intimidate + Rock Polish + Good Bulk + that amazing attack will make it a great sweeper.

    On a side note, Kyurem forms are almost definately Uber. 170 is the second highest stat for offense ever, iirc. Plus, 95 Speed isn't bad, and 125 HP is very good.

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    Really GameFreak, that's what you call Defensive Tornadus?

  3. #153

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    Eh, Tornadus-T doesn't really need enormous defenses to be defensive. With that kind of speed, access to Prankster and Regenerator, a good base 110 SpA stat, and Hurricane, it'll make a good offensive SubRooster. Of course, that'll be moot if it doesn't get Roost. What I'm eager to use is an offensive set with this guy. Base 121 speed beats everything unboosted in OU bar Jolteon, and Regenerator + U-turn will make it a great LO attacker. I could see this guy being a fantastic late game cleaner.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Eh, Tornadus-T doesn't really need enormous defenses to be defensive. With that kind of speed, access to Prankster and Regenerator, a good base 110 SpA stat, and Hurricane, it'll make a good offensive SubRooster. Of course, that'll be moot if it doesn't get Roost. What I'm eager to use is an offensive set with this guy. Base 121 speed beats everything unboosted in OU bar Jolteon, and Regenerator + U-turn will make it a great LO attacker. I could see this guy being a fantastic late game cleaner.
    It wont be able to use Prankster and those defenses at the same time. I doubt a defensive set will be very viable whatsoever.It might make an OK sub rooster I guess, but I think the standard specs set will be better, as it can outspeed most things in OU anyway, and heal off any residual damage.

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    Yeah, I'm imagining Sub/Roost (hopefully)/U-Turn/Hurricane with Life Orb for Tornadus. Still think it's gonna be OU. Certainly not gonna be in the same class as Thundurus, who will still remain Uber, and Landorus, who looks like he's gonna have a chance at being Uber. I'm thinking that some physical attackers might have to run HP Ice to deal with Landorus, because that 145 Attack is scary with a Choice Scarf, or like Gibbs said, a Rock Polish.
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  6. #156
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    landorus will stay OU, i think, it lost speed and can´t run choice scarf because it has to hold that item reflect mirror to stay transformed.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbeller View Post
    It wont be able to use Prankster and those defenses at the same time. I doubt a defensive set will be very viable whatsoever.It might make an OK sub rooster I guess, but I think the standard specs set will be better, as it can outspeed most things in OU anyway, and heal off any residual damage.
    I think there's supposed to be a way to get the Therain forms with the original abilities, just not with the DW abilities. Of course, if Tornadus doesn't get Roost, Prankster will be next to useless besides Taunt, which still isn't a good enough reason to use it over Regenerator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    landorus will stay OU, i think, it lost speed and can´t run choice scarf because it has to hold that item reflect mirror to stay transformed.
    I don't think the Reflecting Mirror is a hold item, but something more like the Gracidea Flower (or whatever it's called), something you just have to use once to activate the alternate forms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoopes View Post
    Yeah, I'm imagining Sub/Roost (hopefully)/U-Turn/Hurricane with Life Orb for Tornadus. Still think it's gonna be OU. Certainly not gonna be in the same class as Thundurus, who will still remain Uber, and Landorus, who looks like he's gonna have a chance at being Uber. I'm thinking that some physical attackers might have to run HP Ice to deal with Landorus, because that 145 Attack is scary with a Choice Scarf, or like Gibbs said, a Rock Polish.
    I don't think I'm Gibbs D:

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    I think there's supposed to be a way to get the Therain forms with the original abilities, just not with the DW abilities. Of course, if Tornadus doesn't get Roost, Prankster will be next to useless besides Taunt, which still isn't a good enough reason to use it over Regenerator.



    I don't think the Reflecting Mirror is a hold item, but something more like the Gracidea Flower (or whatever it's called), something you just have to use once to activate the alternate forms.
    I'm not sure about that. I thought that the Therain formes normal abilities were Volt-Absorb, Regenerator, and Intimidate. I'll try and check it at some point.

  9. #159

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    Well, whoever told me that probably got it from this. The wording is kinda weird, so I'm not entirely sure if that's what it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serebii Main Page
    When you change the form of the Tornadus/Thundurus/Landorus captured in the Dream Radar game by using the Reflecting Mirror, the Pokémon will have their Hidden Ability. That's Defiant for Tornadus & Thundurus and Sheer Force for Landorus. However, if you transfer the Pokémon from Black & White and use the item, they will transform into Sacred Beast Forme, but with the Sacred Beast Forme Pokémon having the same ability as if they were caught in Dream Radar.
    Regardless, if there's anything I learned from Zapdos in 4th Gen OU, it's that a fast SubRoost user with Toxic Spikes support is always a cool thing to abuse. Tornadus's great Flying/Fighting coverage and extra speed will be a nice bonus, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbeller View Post
    I don't think I'm Gibbs D:
    Yeah, I'm stupid.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Reflecting Mirror is not a held item, otherwise I think we would've heard about it by now. Like Gibbs (for real this time) said, it's probably akin to the thing that changes Shaymin's form. For example, we heard that it was a key item that fuses Kyurem with Zekrom or Reshiram, so I think we would have heard if the Reflecting Mirror was an item by now.
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    So Ubers just got some new members, huh?
    Lando may barely stay in OU because of its Speed, but I doubt it. Expect lots of Starmies and Jolteons with HP Ice in the near future.


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    Tornadus is so much weaker now it got 15 less base attacks his speed is amazing but MEH his offences well look at the good side it is one of the fastests and at the same time with decent defenses pokemon. -30 offenses +10 all the rest except HP
    landorus and thunderus got a similar nerf -10 speed -10 none used attack +20 preferable attack , landorus sacred beast (theawhatever) form will be easier to revenge kill but more powerful, thunderus more deadly but again easier to revenge kill, tornadus will be harder to revenge kill but it won't hit as hard as the original form.


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    I think the idea with the new Landorus form is to switch into a physical attack like Terrakion using Earthquake. On the presumed switch, you Rock Polish and procede to sweep. I wouldn't be surprised to see HP Ice on physical sweepers while this thing is allowed in OU, however long that lasts. I know I'll be doing that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoopes View Post
    I think the idea with the new Landorus form is to switch into a physical attack like Terrakion using Earthquake. On the presumed switch, you Rock Polish and procede to sweep. I wouldn't be surprised to see HP Ice on physical sweepers while this thing is allowed in OU, however long that lasts. I know I'll be doing that.
    Or you could use ice punch


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  15. #165

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    It seems as though Barbeller was right, so I don't think Landorus-T will have access to Sand Force. That said, it will lack the raw power of normal Landorus in the Sand, and it might not be as broken as some might fear it to be. Of course, it'll still be really powerful outside of the Sand and have a neat niche as a powerful tank with Intimidate.

    EDIT: It also looks as though Tornadus-T cannot learn Roost, which is disappointing. However, it gets Superpower, which is interesting. This could be a great new alternative to Focus Blast for Fighting coverage. It also learns Heat Wave, which lets it hit every Steel type in the game pretty hard besides Heatran, who takes quite a bit of damage from Superpower. In fact, with no investment, a LO Superpower can 2HKO Blissey, even without Stealth Rock. I guess the main problem is the clash between Heat Wave and Rain, but then Hidden Power can pick up some of the slack, and Regenerator can help recover from Hurricane misses outside of Rain. I'm seeing a set of Hurricane/Superpower/U-turn/Heat Wave OR Hidden Power with Life Orb or Specs being pretty good. I guess Tornadus could also afford to run just enough speed to beat ScarfTar and use the rest to boost its Atk a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I think Tornadus will be pretty good. Imagine they suck out some Attack and Special Attack.

    Say both offensive stats are lower to 100. Maybe 10 will be placed in Speed (+10 speed seems gamefreak-realistic) and 20 in both defenses.

    That leaves us with a 79/100/90/100/90/121 Pokemon.
    Well, I was close. Only 10 base SA off.

    I think the new form is a VAST improvement off the old Tornadus. 121 speed is awesome, beating Starmie and Scarf Tyranitar. Regenerator + decent good defenses will let it stick around and it will still be an offensive power with STAB Hurricane + better movepool. Though Heat Wave is useless on Rain sets a Bulk Up Acrobatics set can now burn through Skarmory and outrun Scarf Tyranitar to Hammer Arm / Brick Break / Superpower it to death.

    Thundurus-T still has a ton of speed but now MORE Special Attack. It can now OHKO Blissey with +2 Focus Blast after Stealth Rocks.

    Landorus-T is now slower, has worse Special Attack and without Sand Force actually has less Attack. There's probably some viable intimidate set but it seems like a worse Landorus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Well, I was close. Only 10 base SA off.

    I think the new form is a VAST improvement off the old Tornadus. 121 speed is awesome, beating Starmie and Scarf Tyranitar. Regenerator + decent good defenses will let it stick around and it will still be an offensive power with STAB Hurricane + better movepool. Though Heat Wave is useless on Rain sets a Bulk Up Acrobatics set can now burn through Skarmory and outrun Scarf Tyranitar to Hammer Arm / Brick Break / Superpower it to death.

    Thundurus-T still has a ton of speed but now MORE Special Attack. It can now OHKO Blissey with +2 Focus Blast after Stealth Rocks.

    Landorus-T is now slower, has worse Special Attack and without Sand Force actually has less Attack. There's probably some viable intimidate set but it seems like a worse Landorus.
    I'm just going to give my take from a VGC doubles standard.

    Access to Intimidate automatically raises some eyebrows, but the drop in Sp. Atk limits his ability to run Scarf sets effectively.

    Volt Absorb gives Thundurus something to work with against T-Wavers and Zapdos, so that gives him more viability. The lack of Fire moves not named Hidden Power on Thundurus is still a letdown, but so long as his speed is above Base 100, I have few complaints.

    Unless Tornadus gets something REALLY good from the Move Tutors, he's not going to last too long.

    We still don't know what they learn from the Move Tutors yet, so it's still up in the air.

  18. #168

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    Here's the full English list of move tutor compatability.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/82369016/BW2Tutors.xlsx

    Tornadus gets Heat Wave and Superpower, which are both great tools that it can abuse.

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    Anyone have a song about Ubers sung by a barber shop quartet which praises but offends more?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Anyone have a song about Ubers sung by a barber shop quartet which praises but offends more?
    No darn it
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Anyone have a song about Ubers sung by a barber shop quartet which praises but offends more?
    It's the tier of greatest,
    but a little too great,
    It's were you send the bestest,
    that don't get their...um...cake?

    Ah, forget this.
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  22. #172

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    Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Substitute
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    From my experience using this moveset in a rain team with Magic Bounce support on Pokémon Showdown, I must say that it owns.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokémon Trainer R View Post


    Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Substitute
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    From my experience using this moveset in a rain team with Magic Bounce support on Pokémon Showdown, I must say that it owns.
    Honestly, for a LO set, I would use Life Orb with Hurricane/HP Ice/Focus Blast/U-turn. Trying to go too mixed is hard, and Substitute+U-turn is downright stupid. I used that set with specs, and it works really well with steels out the way, which this set will be able to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbeller View Post
    Honestly, for a LO set, I would use Life Orb with Hurricane/HP Ice/Focus Blast/U-turn. Trying to go too mixed is hard, and Substitute+U-turn is downright stupid. I used that set with specs, and it works really well with steels out the way, which this set will be able to do.
    Personally, I'd go with Superpower there. Mostly because I trust Fail Blast only when necessary, and your opponent can't just go, "lolBlissey." Focus Blast 3HKO's Blissey with Torny-T after Stealth Rock, which isn't ideal, I would think. In that time, your opponent can just status you, and recover with Softboiled. Sure, you have U-Turn. But is that really going to stop a Blissey? I mean, you do a lulzworthy 21.2% at the max with the new Tornadus, and between Leftovers and the obvious recovery on a Blissey set, you really aren't doing anything major to it. Meanwhile, Superpower is a guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock. Sure, you need to have Stealth Rock down for that to be guaranteed with Leftovers, but it's better a better option than Focus Blast, imo. Especially when you consider accuracy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    It's the tier of greatest,
    but a little too great,
    It's were you send the bestest,
    that don't get their...um...cake?

    Ah, forget this.
    No, that was brilliant! Next verse! More vulgarity this time!
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