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Thread: The Crystalline Guard

  1. #8076
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    Quote Originally Posted by superstar View Post
    Honestly, there is almost no reason to use Arcanine over Darmanitan. They have the same speed stat, but Darmanitan has Sheer Force. My damage calculator is down, (WHICH IS A BIG DEAL) but I assure you that it 2HKOs Jellicent, Tentacruel, Latias, Gliscor and Dragonite, plus maybe Slowbro with Sheer Force Flare Blitz in Sun. It also has Earthquake, and U-TURN, which is huge (U-Turn easily does 60% to Ttar and takes a ton off of Toed). Hell, it can 2HKO offensive Rotom-W with Fire Punch in the sun.

    Darmanitan @Choice Scarf
    252 Att/ 252 Spd, Adamant/Jolly, Sheer Force
    -Flare Blitz
    -Fire Punch/Superpower
    -U-turn
    -Earthquake

    So I looked at the Pokemon that do not receive enough usage to be OU (included BLs, which after all are used just as little as UU pokes), and here is the Superstar ranking of the top 10 usefulness in OU:
    1- Ditto
    Got a weakness to boosting sweepers? Need SR? Have a weakness to Dragonite, Heatran, or Tornadus-T? Ditto can revenge kill all these threats and provide a ton of roles on the team. Honestly, I hope it stays in NU, because it's great in every tier its allowed in.

    2-Deoxys-D
    How is this BL? Everyone knows who it is and what it does.

    3- Hydregion
    Yeah, it's slow. Yeah, it's tough to get in. But once it is in, something is going to die. Hydregion can 2HKO every single Pokemon in the game bar Lugia and Physically Defensive Steel Arceus in Rain with a set of Life Orb, Superpower, Fire Blast, Draco Meteor, and Earthquake -- and they aren't in OU, are they? Honestly, if it weren't for Genesect, Hydregion would easily be OU.

    4- Wobbuffett
    Everyone knows who Wobbefett is and what he does. Revenges with 100% reliability almost all Choice users. I can't think of a comparable OU example, but in Ubers I would start to sweep with Darkrai. Darkrai would then die to a Choice Scarf user. Wobb takes out the Choice Scarf user, which removes their only Mewtwo check, gg. Stuff like that in OU abounds.

    5- Slowbro
    Walling almost all physical threats in the game, including Terrakion? Sounds good to me. Slowbro is a great Pokemon, and honestly if he got SR and Amoonguss got Spikes, stall would suddenly be viable in this metagame.

    6- Azumarill
    With rain predominating, Azumarill becomes a great Pokemon who can revenge a large portion of the metagame with STAB Aqua Jet, including all the Therians, Landorus, Volcarona, Terrakion, and Genesect

    7- Zapdos
    Zapdos is pretty underrated, serving as a great check to Tornadus-T. Once Lightning Rod is released, I will use him on every rain team I have. STAB Thunder off that SpAtt stat with that bulk is pretty nice too. Unfortunately, Game Freak gave Uno and Tres Hurricane and forgot about Dos. Come on, give number two some love.

    8- Victini
    The face of sun offence gets a nod over Darmanitan because he is almost as powerful with V-Create, reaches the all important base 100 speed stat, and still has U-Turn.

    9- Stoutland
    He's lean, mean, and fast. By outspeeding everything in Sand and still hitting hard with Choice Band, Stoutland carves a good niche in the OU metagame. His only problem is that he is weak to Mach Punch, and Normal STAB sucks.

    10 - Kingdra
    Yeah, he's outclassed by many other Dragons, but he's not weak to Ice Shard and can OHKO Mamoswine. He can survive pretty much any priority attack, in fact. And once rain comes, look out! He all of a sudden became a fast, powerful sweeper immune to revenge killing by the likes of Genesect or Scarf Terrakion.

    Just missed the cut: Bronzong, Jolteon, Chansey, Xatu, Toxicroak, Sabelye, Kyurem (outclassed by -B), Roserade, Darmanitan, Amoonguss, Gothitelle, Chandelure, Cofagarius, Feraligatr, Weavile, Aerodactyl, Sawsbuck, Lilligant
    Totally agree. Not sure what tiers you're going off though. Toxicroak, Jolteon, Chansey and Deoxys-D are all OU on Smogon tiers, but Roserade is OU on PO tiers

  2. #8077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prohawk View Post
    Totally agree. Not sure what tiers you're going off though. Toxicroak, Jolteon, Chansey and Deoxys-D are all OU on Smogon tiers, but Roserade is OU on PO tiers
    Rosarade is BL on PO tiers. That's what I went off of.
    EDIT: Also, Chansey isn't 2HKO'd by Hydreigon Superpower, but it's not really hard to get Chansey down to 85% considering it doesn't have leftovers.

    Also, Honko's calculator is 404. Does anyone have a good replacement? I would like one that's similar, where you can quickly insert any of Smogon's given sets and it automatically fills in all the EVs for you.
    Last edited by superstar; 23rd October 2012 at 9:01 PM.

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  3. #8078
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    Quote Originally Posted by superstar View Post
    Rosarade is BL on PO tiers. That's what I went off of.
    Ah, BL is pretty much OU though since it's the only tier you can use it in, aside from Ubers of course. Roserade should really be UU though, I have a Roserade on my Smogon UU team and I don't find it overpowered enough to warrent being BL. It only really has a niche as being able to sleep something and set up Spikes. If you're using it as an attacker, Celebi does it better and they both resist fighting too. If you're looking for a spiker, Forry/Skarm do it better due to bulk or Frosslass if you're looking for some offensive presence. Even Cloyster if you want a mix of the 2. But then again, PO tiers are a bit funky anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prohawk View Post
    Ah, BL is pretty much OU though since it's the only tier you can use it in, aside from Ubers of course. Roserade should really be UU though, I have a Roserade on my Smogon UU team and I don't find it overpowered enough to warrent being BL. It only really has a niche as being able to sleep something and set up Spikes. If you're using it as an attacker, Celebi does it better and they both resist fighting too. If you're looking for a spiker, Forry/Skarm do it better due to bulk or Frosslass if you're looking for some offensive presence. Even Cloyster if you want a mix of the 2. But then again, PO tiers are a bit funky anyway
    celebi also has stealth rock, breloom deserves a mention as a sleep inducing grass type surely, he is a manly mushroom?
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    Your House: Zircon
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    Your House: Emerald
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderman123 View Post
    slowbro in ou = happy days,
    ^This also i find subpunch rhyperior with xatu support to be a total champ ask jonah i believe it 4-0'd him once
    Quote Originally Posted by superstar View Post
    Honestly, there is almost no reason to use Arcanine over Darmanitan.
    Hmmm how to rebut this well first off theres a decent potential to run a mixed set with 95 special attack while it also gets superior abilities in the form of flash fire and intimidate allowing for it to become a bulky spread it gets access to morning sun a reliable recovery takes about 49% with max max from a banded mienshaos stone edge after intimidate it has close combat and an electric move so ya they're nothing a like
    Quote Originally Posted by superstar View Post
    Rosarade is BL on PO tiers. That's what I went off of.
    EDIT: Also, Chansey isn't 2HKO'd by Hydreigon Superpower, but it's not really hard to get Chansey down to 85% considering it doesn't have leftovers.

    Also, Honko's calculator is 404. Does anyone have a good replacement? I would like one that's similar, where you can quickly insert any of Smogon's given sets and it automatically fills in all the EVs for you.
    You could always try the pokemon online calculator

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    yeah a couple of the pokes I chose were BL, but I figure they are still underrated because all the BL pokes receive very little usage in OU, enough to make them UU were they not too strong for the tier!

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    Quote Originally Posted by superstar View Post
    yeah a couple of the pokes I chose were BL, but I figure they are still underrated because all the BL pokes receive very little usage in OU, enough to make them UU were they not too strong for the tier!
    Yea I guess, apart from Dexoys-D, it's really commonly used and may actually be a suspect for ubers next round on Smogon

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderman123 View Post
    slowbro in ou = happy days,
    Please stop with these spammy posts; give some reason as to why Slowbro was good or whatever. Ten-word sentences are basically just spam.

    Anyway, I do agree; Slowbro is a monster. Really nice bulk, and with max HP and Def and after two Calm Minds, he becomes impossible to kill A combination of extreme bulk and Slack Off lets it shrug off anything but status. Plus, after 2 CMs, it can hit really hard.
    I personally like using Virizion right now. It's pretty versatile, and both of its common sets work well on my teams. SD usually catches people off-guard, and paired with it's great Speed, I usually get off a good sweep. I don't like Calm Mind as much, just because Focus Blast is its only real Fighting STAB on the special side, and it's really unreliable.
    Machamp was also a favorite of mine for a while (it was even my sig back in BA). Overall, it has a really cool move-pool, and two incredible abilities in No-Guard and Guts. It has great stats, and can even pull off a great Scarf set.
    Finally, Tornadus. I usually like using the regular form over Tornadus-T for the added power. I mean, 111 Speed is still great, and 121 Sp. Atk is even better! In the Rain, Specs Tornadus is always a threat. He's scary to fight.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Charizard_007 View Post
    Smooth, Amethyst doesnt translate to purple lololol..
    I think he meant he can't stand Aeon's permanent use of purple font....if he was confused about it I guess he is going to sit this event out lol
    ---------EDIT----------
    This is so spammy, I went through about 4 pages of people pledging their allegiance to Magic or TMS...lol
    So, in hopes of sparking up some sort of competitive discussion;
    What is the most under rated UU or other lower tier pokemon that can function really well in OU-whether it be due to people being unaware/not expecting it?
    Try to mention pokemon that can do well with out weather support. If whether is required, what are that pokemon's perks over the OU pokemon that serve the same function on a team?

    Ill start:
    Arcanine is a solid pokemon with a wide move pool and great coverage that rivals Victini and such--flareblitz+close combat+wild charge + E Speed + HP Ice +Crunch + Outrage etc etc
    It can run solid Physical sets, as well as Special sets with fire blast or overheat, but my favorite set is the mixed; however, with rain running around in OU, Fire blast or Overheat might be better than flare blitz because any slight misspredict and you find yourself spamming attacks as your opponent switches around and drains you with LO and Flare Blitz recoil (provided that your opponent predict flare blitz into a pokemon that resists fire, then a pokemon that resists electricity and or crunch--or something that can tank those hits-on sand teams t tar could come in and tank a hit, then drain your HP with the sand and some more predicting.) A blessing for Arcanine though, include Close Combat Which owns Ttar and chancey/blissey (should your opp still run these trolls). Gliscor can wall you, but only if you are nooby and dont use HP ice. Finally, Extreme Speed is just priority, which can help with t form genies with SR and some residual damage. Arcanine also gets a nod for being able to counter Genesect... but Arcanine's ability to do so is extremely hindered by its SR weakness....which blows :I
    Arcanine, in my opinion, isn't that great of a pokemon. It has a great movepool, and great mixed stats, but its speed really holds it back. On a sun team, its really hard for it to find a place on a team since many pokemon can do one role better than it can. Furthermore, he functions a bit similarly to Infernape, with the only difference being that Infernape gets STAB on Close Combat and sits in a very good Speed tier.

    Quote Originally Posted by legolover8 View Post
    Hmm, I would say... Snorlax. People do know it's there, acknowdge it as a 'wall'- then it sweeps your team with +2 Cursed Body Slam/Earthquake. And if they try to flee, +2 Pursuit.
    And if they try to kill you, +2 Defense, titanic HP stat, and amazing Sp. Def.
    Cureslax FTW <3
    I don't agree with your battle examples, but Thick Fat Snorlax is a very good counter to sun teams, especially CB versions. 4 HP/252 Att/252 SpDef Adamant can seriously hurt anything with Frustration and takes lol% damage from any Specially-based Fighting moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prohawk View Post
    Heh I should win some sort of award for this...

    Hmm, I've been using Weavile lately and he just kicks sooo much booty. An amazing speed stat, and a Duel Stab which is perfect for the speed - a lot of todays speedy threats are really weak to Ice/Dark - Starmie, Genger, Tornadus-T, Lati@s, Chomp, Landy etc etc
    Weavile has become minutely more effective this metagame. With Tornadus-T laying eggs on the metagame, Weavile's very high Speed tier gives it some notability. Furthermore, Garchomp and the Therians gives the metagame more a reason to pack Ice moves. I just don't like how Weavile is so frail and weak to everything. Furthermore, Genesect makes Weavile's situation even more unbearable since Weavile can't do much against Genesect while Genesect Bug Buzz or U-Turn all over you.

    I feel Slowbro is less effective now for the same reason. The fact that Genesect will almost always carry a move that will Super Effectively KO +1 Slowbro detracts from his overall value in a way.

    As for Virizion, I feel that overhype with Tornadus is not indicative as to what it could do. Granted it doesn't have amazing power from the get-go, but it still can get good sweeps in.

    Machamp is just still the same old. I was praying for something new and cool, but it still not fitted for this metagame.

    Tornadus-I's AcroBat set is so painful to deal with.
    Last edited by Eaglehawk; 24th October 2012 at 1:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehawk
    I don't agree with your battle examples, but Thick Fat Snorlax is a very good counter to sun teams, especially CB versions. 4 HP/252 Att/252 SpDef Adamant can seriously hurt anything with Frustration and takes lol% damage from any Specially-based Fighting moves.
    I'm not really sure if sun teams are common enough to consider running a snorlax to counter them. Especially since Rain is common and can also counter sun. Cause, you know, water.


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    BL/UU mons in OU, you say? Hmmmm...

    Well, aside from the ones mentioned, I used to use Gallade, Azelf, and Omastar ALL the time (to everyone's knowledge). Gallade is good with Bulk Up, but it's outclassed by Conk--save for its typing. Psychic/Fighting resists Fighting/Rock (suck it Terrakion), which is rather common for Fighting types to run. It gets a priority move that's good against its more common weakness in Shadow Sneak, although it does lose power as SS isn't STAB. Azelf is an amazing sweeper, especially in the sun (Flamethrower). If you can get up a Nasty Plot, you can pretty much roflstomp entire teams. Then again, with Genesect dominating today's meta, Azelf has lost its appeal. Omastar is like Cloyster, but it uses Special attacks over Physical ones. You may not be able to run DrizzleSwim with it, but what you can do is give it Weak Armor so it outspeeds Scarf users after a Shell Smash and a Physical attack. It also works well on Sand teams thanks to the Special Defense boost (but I don't know how much that helps).
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    I'm not really sure if sun teams are common enough to consider running a snorlax to counter them. Especially since Rain is common and can also counter sun. Cause, you know, water.
    Sun received a humongous boost with the addition of Genesect. Genesect + Dugtrio is literally on most Sun teams and gets rid of opposing weather as well as Heatran really well. This plague is so bad, in fact, many Smogonites are suggesting Shed Shells on Heatran to negate Arena Trap. Don't believe me?

    Three Month Aggregate Stats
    | 13 | Ninetales | 10.861% |
    | 25 | Venusaur | 7.787% |

    Sept. Raw Stats
    | 13 | Ninetales | 68706 | 11.084% | 63173 | 12.567%|
    | 14 | Terrakion | 64564 | 10.416% | 47456 | 9.440% |
    | 15 | Latios | 62106 | 10.020% | 48553 | 9.659%

    | 24 | Venusaur | 49581 | 7.999% | 38284 | 7.616% |
    | 25 | Tornadus-Therian | 46372 | 7.481% | 36159 | 7.193% |
    | 26 | Espeon | 46203 | 7.454% | 37063 | 7.373% |

    As compared with other Pokemon, you can obviously see that Sun has jumped so much that it merits closer scrutiny.
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  16. #8091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    Sun received a humongous boost with the addition of Genesect. Genesect + Dugtrio is literally on most Sun teams and gets rid of opposing weather as well as Heatran really well. This plague is so bad, in fact, many Smogonites are suggesting Shed Shells on Heatran to negate Arena Trap. Don't believe me?

    Yes but that's mainly due to Lavos sun
    which is the most popular known team to utilise that combo and the team that popularised it to that extent. Tbh, without Shed Shell Heatran, this team kinda trolls all over everything
    Last edited by Prohawk; 24th October 2012 at 2:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    Sun received a humongous boost with the addition of Genesect. Genesect + Dugtrio is literally on most Sun teams and gets rid of opposing weather as well as Heatran really well. This plague is so bad, in fact, many Smogonites are suggesting Shed Shells on Heatran to negate Arena Trap. Don't believe me?

    Three Month Aggregate Stats
    | 13 | Ninetales | 10.861% |
    | 25 | Venusaur | 7.787% |

    Sept. Raw Stats
    | 13 | Ninetales | 68706 | 11.084% | 63173 | 12.567%|
    | 14 | Terrakion | 64564 | 10.416% | 47456 | 9.440% |
    | 15 | Latios | 62106 | 10.020% | 48553 | 9.659%

    | 24 | Venusaur | 49581 | 7.999% | 38284 | 7.616% |
    | 25 | Tornadus-Therian | 46372 | 7.481% | 36159 | 7.193% |
    | 26 | Espeon | 46203 | 7.454% | 37063 | 7.373% |

    As compared with other Pokemon, you can obviously see that Sun has jumped so much that it merits closer scrutiny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prohawk View Post

    Yes but that's mainly due to Lavos sun
    which is the most popular known team to utilise that combo and the team that popularised it to that extent. Tbh, without Shed Shell Heatran, this team kinda trolls all over everything
    I fought one of the duos in todays battle of the day and i ended up getting rid of the genesect and having to have dugtrio die to earthquake from dugtrio however it did let me get up a layer of spikes basically getting half of its team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usatoday View Post
    I fought one of the duos in todays battle of the day and i ended up getting rid of the genesect and having to have dugtrio die to earthquake from dugtrio however it did let me get up a layer of spikes basically getting half of its team
    Yea, when battling Lavos sun, if you can get up a layer of hazards early and safely, then the team is suddenly so much easier to play around

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    I have never, not once, in 10 battles, lost to Lavos Sun with my rain team. Or with my Heatran and TTar sand team for that matter. It is absurdly easy to play around. Nothing on the team can take a SpecsToed Hydro Pump in Rain, let alone one from Specs Keldeo. Ninetales can't switch in reliably. Dugtrio is very unreliable against rain teams. Politoed NEVER switches in right when Tales comes out. I'll send in my Rotom, and then force Duggy out for a free volt switch if they anticipate and double switch. And Politoed absolutely never stays in for more than one turn if I don't have rocks up. I feel like I mostly play bad players, but really, Dugtrio is such an awful Pokemon against rain that it becomes a liability, and every time I fire off Specs Hydro Pump something dies. Who cares if I lose half my team to Genesect when Keldeo is going to sweep in the end anyway? My two cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usatoday View Post
    I fought one of the duos in todays battle of the day and i ended up getting rid of the genesect and having to have dugtrio die to earthquake from dugtrio however it did let me get up a layer of spikes basically getting half of its team
    Are you saying you used a Dugtrio and had to sacrifice it, or that you had to sacrifice something else to it? If it's the first option...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamina
    Do you know why people have eyes at the front? It's to see the vast landscape, and to move forward. If we had eyes in the back, we'd only see ourselves leaving our birthplace. That way, people could never move forward. Our eyes are at the front, so that when we walk, the distant landscape draws closer. That's why people can move forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Swordsman View Post
    Are you saying you used a Dugtrio and had to sacrifice it, or that you had to sacrifice something else to it? If it's the first option...

    STEVECEPTION
    watch the battle and find out

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    Quote Originally Posted by superstar View Post
    I have never, not once, in 10 battles, lost to Lavos Sun with my rain team. Or with my Heatran and TTar sand team for that matter. It is absurdly easy to play around. Nothing on the team can take a SpecsToed Hydro Pump in Rain, let alone one from Specs Keldeo. Ninetales can't switch in reliably. Dugtrio is very unreliable against rain teams. Politoed NEVER switches in right when Tales comes out. I'll send in my Rotom, and then force Duggy out for a free volt switch if they anticipate and double switch. And Politoed absolutely never stays in for more than one turn if I don't have rocks up. I feel like I mostly play bad players, but really, Dugtrio is such an awful Pokemon against rain that it becomes a liability, and every time I fire off Specs Hydro Pump something dies. Who cares if I lose half my team to Genesect when Keldeo is going to sweep in the end anyway? My two cents.
    Well, with Cholorphyll users, the situation changes, as they're all Grass types. While it's true Ice Beam counters them, I guess you have Ninetails to take the hit.
    A successful Sun team involves a huge amount of prediction.


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  23. #8098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegame88 View Post
    Welp, my mom layed down the uhh...Ban Hammer on my internet so to speak. So going on a definite leave. If you want you can keep me on the Roster but at this point PO is a definite no go.
    lol, me too, but my ban ends in 1.5 months (6 weeks)...BUT i can get on on Fridays cause my parents arent home!
    What is this?? Is this a Pokemon battle? Am I winning? I'll think I'll go stand here in this corner...

    † I am a Christian and very proud of it! Copy and paste this into your sig if you are too.†



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  24. #8099
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    Mar 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by sushi_noodles View Post
    lol, me too, but my ban ends in 1.5 months (6 weeks)...BUT i can get on on Fridays cause my parents arent home!
    Geez, what did you guys all do to annoy your parents so much?? Haha, makes me glad I don't live with my parents

  25. #8100
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soperman View Post
    Well, with Cholorphyll users, the situation changes, as they're all Grass types. While it's true Ice Beam counters them, I guess you have Ninetails to take the hit.
    A successful Sun team involves a huge amount of prediction.
    This is definitely not true. 4/0 Venusaur takes 62-73% from Politoed Choice Specs Hydro Pump in Rain, and 79-93% from Specs Hydro Pump from Keldeo. There are very few Grass Types that can comfortably tank water moves -- Celebi is one of the few because of Recover, but the standard set is cleanly 2HKO'd by Keldeo. Also, Venusaur is the bulkiest Chlorophyll user, so Lilligant is OHKO'd by Hydro Pump after SR, and Sawsbuck in is the same situation. When it comes to rain offense, there really isn't much that can switch in. Also, Max SpDef Bold Ninetales takes 52% from Politoed Hydro Pump, and 66-78% from Keldeo, even in Sun.

    EDIT: Also, for the kids in High School, focus on getting good grades (assuming that a lack of these are why people are getting parent banned) and making friends , I promise that the connections you will make at a good college (i.e. a top 30 school for Americans) will pay off big time down the road. Its how I'm going to get an awesome internship right after graduation, plus I have a bunch of rich friends that will pay all my club fees and house me when I go visit New York or London . #realtalk
    Last edited by superstar; 24th October 2012 at 4:47 AM.

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