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Thread: Meloetta

  1. #26
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    Isn't Meloetta's usefulness going to be a function of her trainer's prediction skills? Meloetta is always sent out in Aria forme, which has a monstrous Sp. Atk. and would likely make the opponent want to switch to something that can wall special attacks. On that switch, though, Meloetta might use Relic Song and become Pirhouette forme, which is going to have the sort of stats that usually scare out special walls - plus she gets the 38 point boost in base speed to become one of the fastest Pokemon in standard, meaning there's a very good chance she'll get off the first hit. This in addition to her two formes sporting different weaknesses and resistances.

    Basically the opponent has to gamble on whether he or she will be dealing with a very strong special sweeper or a very strong physical sweeper. I think a decent/lucky player could put that uncertainty to good use. *shrug*

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  2. #27
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    Its going to be easy OU. Maybe not top tier, but what the **** actually switches in on it safely? When you see Meloetta what do you do.. guess what it runs? Calm Mind offense, Relic Song offense, Relic Song mixed, CM mixed, Expert Belt offense, Defensive support, Thunder Drizzle abuse etc.

    It has SO MANY viable sets.


  3. #28
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    Right now, she's better as a special attacker. He pirouette form needs more physical attacks that it can abuse serene grace with

  4. #29

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    Pretty much what Profesco said. My brief experience with Meloetta has shown that you often have to play mind games with it, guessing on whether it's running a physical or special set.

    Also, what's all this garbage about Relic Song being a "waste of a moveslot," lol? It's a 75 base power STAB attack coming off a base 128 SpA stat. That's more powerful than well known coverage moves like Mamoswine's Stone Edge, Terrakion's Earthquake, and Latios's Surf. It also has a 20% chance to put the opponent to sleep, which is the same chance of Stone Edge missing (and we all know how often that happens). No, it may not be doing a ton of damage all the time, but other sweepers may have similar problems. For example, Terrakion may have Gliscor switch into Close Combat and do about as much damage as a Skarmory switching into Meloetta's Relic Song. The difference is, Meloetta now has nearly identical power, far more speed, non-crippled defenses, and it might have just put something to sleep.

  5. #30
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    I heard about this one set... It goes something like this...

    Meloetta@Leftovers (I think)
    Nature: Lonely, I think
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Moves:
    Hone Claws
    Thunder (Though it also may have been Charge Beam)
    Psychic
    Maybe Brick Break, Maybe Close Combat

    Okay, clearly I got it a bit confused, but the principle is the same. Use Hone Claws in Aria Form, they'll expect a switch to Pirouette Form, so they switch to a Physical Wall and get slammed upside the head by Thunder or Psychic. And when they switch to a Dark Type, hit them on the switch w/Probably Close Combat Now That I Think About It.

    I thought it was cool. But, I'm sure a bunch of people who know better than I are all too happy to point out my inevitable mistake, or if I'm lucky get it better than I did.

    Wouldn't be too hard.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by chanseychansey77 View Post
    I heard about this one set... It goes something like this...

    Meloetta@Leftovers (I think)
    Nature: Lonely, I think
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Moves:
    Hone Claws
    Thunder (Though it also may have been Charge Beam)
    Psychic
    Maybe Brick Break, Maybe Close Combat

    Okay, clearly I got it a bit confused, but the principle is the same. Use Hone Claws in Aria Form, they'll expect a switch to Pirouette Form, so they switch to a Physical Wall and get slammed upside the head by Thunder or Psychic. And when they switch to a Dark Type, hit them on the switch w/Probably Close Combat Now That I Think About It.

    I thought it was cool. But, I'm sure a bunch of people who know better than I are all too happy to point out my inevitable mistake, or if I'm lucky get it better than I did.

    Wouldn't be too hard.
    Ubstabbed CC from 77 attack won't do much. Since, Relic song isn't there.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    A move with 107 BP coming from a base 128 sp.attack (facturing STAB) is crappy?


    I used the CM set in DW OU and I must admit it is an amazing set meloetta lost a resistance for an immuny the normal type then is not that bad only in the piroette form it is a bad one though...

    Give meloetta zen headbutt Nuff said (Jirachi got his signature Iron Head by move tutors!) meloetta should too

    imagine it a base 128 speed serene grace pokemon with a flinching move well... we got shaymin-S it would be Shaymin-S 2.

    Also meloetta is one of few psychic types who can avoid being a pursuit bait scizor, tyranitar ? change to fighting form, hippowdon? slowbro change to psychic form.

    Meloettas stats make it an exelent wall breaker.

    Most meloetta which include changing types sets will have shadow ball/claw , close combat, relic song, Psychic/ a move tutor move.
    Sorry, but Psychic/Normal loses it's Fighting Resist, and for what? Immunity to Ghost: A typing that isn't seen as much as it use to.

    Meloetta will not be OU. And a single move coming off of high damage IS crappy. Sorry but pure psychic STAB with shitty speed is still shitty. Reuniclus can get away with it due to it's amazing ability and natural bulk. What does Meloetta have besides some crappy gimmick?

    The Fighting/Normal is a much better typing. Normal is crappy. But fighting is nice. Too bad it's 100% out classed by Terakion. I guess if you were doing some double-fighting strat it could be useful. Too bad Meloetta starts off as a crappy psychic/normal that requires a turn to become useful.

    To sum of this pokemon: Crappy.

    A lot of people get really powerful moves with decent attack stats, that doesn't mean they are OU quality. Case in point: Typhlosion.
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  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by RDSchley View Post
    Meloetta will not be OU. And a single move coming off of high damage IS crappy. Sorry but pure psychic STAB with shitty speed is still shitty. Reuniclus can get away with it due to it's amazing ability and natural bulk. What does Meloetta have besides some crappy gimmick?
    I'm sorry, but this entire paragraph doesn't make any sense. A move coming off high damage is crappy? By what standard? And what does "pure Psychic STAB" even mean? Do you think people are going to run a mono-attacker Meloetta with just its Psychic STAB in a metagame where Tyranitar and Scizor on so many teams? And its speed isn't crappy, just unfortunate for an offensive Pokemon, though good for a special tank like Meloetta. You know what a base 100 Pokemon is beating that Meloetta isn't? Positive Spe natured Gliscor, Hydreigon, and Haxorus, which are all less common than the neutral Spe natured varaints. As for your Reuniclus comparison, Meloetta's 100/77/128 bulk is actually better than Reuniclus's 110/75/85 bulk, and it also has an awesome ability in Serene Grace. And no one runs mono-attacking Reuniclus with just Psychic STAB anyways.

    The Fighting/Normal is a much better typing. Normal is crappy. But fighting is nice. Too bad it's 100% out classed by Terakion. I guess if you were doing some double-fighting strat it could be useful. Too bad Meloetta starts off as a crappy psychic/normal that requires a turn to become useful.
    100% outclassed? Heck no. Terrakion has twice the weaknesses Melotta has, and two of Meloetta's weaknesses are hardly common. Meloetta also has the advantage of a much higher speed stat, letting it outspeed Pokemon like Latios, Latias, Gengar, Starmie, Dugtrio, and Alakazam, all of which can be threats to Terrakion. And I really think you're underestimating a Pokemon with better bulk than Reuniclus, decent speed for a tank, a special attack stat close to that of Latios, and a nifty ability in Serene Grace.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by RDSchley View Post
    Sorry, but Psychic/Normal loses it's Fighting Resist, and for what? Immunity to Ghost: A typing that isn't seen as much as it use to.

    Meloetta will not be OU. And a single move coming off of high damage IS crappy. Sorry but pure psychic STAB with shitty speed is still shitty. Reuniclus can get away with it due to it's amazing ability and natural bulk. What does Meloetta have besides some crappy gimmick?

    The Fighting/Normal is a much better typing. Normal is crappy. But fighting is nice. Too bad it's 100% out classed by Terakion. I guess if you were doing some double-fighting strat it could be useful. Too bad Meloetta starts off as a crappy psychic/normal that requires a turn to become useful.

    To sum of this pokemon: Crappy.

    A lot of people get really powerful moves with decent attack stats, that doesn't mean they are OU quality. Case in point: Typhlosion.
    It's faster than Terrakion. By twenty base speed stats. It'll be the second fastest thing in OU. So I don't see how it'd be bad in that form. The only real negative about Meloetta if that you can't run a full Physially offensive set. That's about it. And it's kind of limited movepool.
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  10. #35
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    umm. no it's not. Only in it's normal/fighting form is it fast.

    I'm tired of seeing people take the best of both worlds and completely ignore the issues with this mon. It's slow in it's psychic form, and fast in it's fighting form. If there was a way to only use the fighting form, yes, it might make it into OU. But as of now, Since you are required to use a move to transform first, can't use a choice item while in fighting form and have a sub-par typing in normal, its simply going to be border-line and a gimmick.

    Again, yes, a high powered move off of a high attack/special stat doesn't make an OU pokemon alone, if it did, Typhlosion would be OU immediately as well as Sceptile with leaf storm. But they aren't know why? Because they are predictable. Meloetta is predictable and a wasted slot on most teams. Reuniclus does what the Psychic form does so much better and with better typing, and the fighting form can't do what scarf terakion does or well, what any fighting pokemon can do due to the fact you have to waste a turn just to get this thing into the fighting form.

    Use this thing, you'll fail when someone predicts your relic song to turn into the fighting form to sweep then kill you off with a scarfed revenge killer.

    Unless you can sell me on the Psychic/Normal form doing something productive, this thing will not be that useful with Alakazam, Lati@s, Reuniclus, Metagross, Jirachi and a host of other psychic mon's doing what this thing does better.

    Crappy gimmick is crappy on a crappy pokemon.
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  11. #36
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    Personally I think it'll be UU.
    I don't really think its OU material/.

  12. #37
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    I think that while we're sitting here complaining about OU/UU status, lets come up with some movesets that will help it stand out from it's peers. As of right now, it's simply outclassed by both Fighting types and Psychics of a similar nature. It's gimmick could be useful in a mixed set but I highly doubt it'll ever be viable due to turns wasted to get into the correct form. Life Orb would only be really useful by the Psychic form since using Relic Song would do damage, then reduce Meloetta's life to 9/10th. Choice items only work for Psychic Meloetta.

    The biggest issue I think with Meloetta's movepool is lack of alternative to Close Combat. Since Fighting form requires Relic Song to be used, aka waste a turn, Meloetta may already be damaged from switching in and/or during the turn it used Relic Song. Worse yet, a Ghost type can stop Meloetta from changing forms at all since Relic Song is lol-normal type.

    Another issue is faces is that Relic Song isn't even a good attack. 75 base power is atrocious. 128 SP.Atk is above average in OU, but it cannot make up for the 102 base power attack that doesn't have anything it's super effective against. It's movepool is decent special-wise, but it's physical movepool is limited to Stone Edge, Quick Attack, Close Combat and U-turn I guess. Shadow Claw is viable too, the problem is that if a Ghost is out then Relic song cannot be used anyway to turn into fighting form.

    Serene Grace Psychic form is the only way this thing will probably ever be used. Thunder, Psychic, Shadowball, Focus Blast as a movepool maybe /w Scarf? Coming in on nasty ghost moves and special moves alike? But then again, Jirachi does this so much better due to typing and better speed.

    It's typing and movepool are just average and that's the problem. It's gimmick is just that, a gimmick. If they release a way to make it start off in it's Fighting form, then it has more potential but even then it's still predictable, and has bad typing and a limited movepool and useless ability. Serene Grace literally does nothing for it's Physical form... bar RAWK SMASH, but lol at rock smash.

    Meh, BL for sure. UU can't handle the special bulk it brings while OU simply has pokemon that do it's job soooooo much better.
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        Spoiler:- ...:

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Base 90 speed is not slow. It ties with Lucario and beats Rotom-W, and no one calls either of them slow. In fact, it's slightly above average, seeing as how the average base speed of OU is about 83 and it outspeeds over half of the tier.
    Half the tier is rarely used anyway. 90 speed is not that great for Meloetta. Sure, its pretty decent on something with bulk and/or good typing but here we have a pokemon that is either A) A psychic sweeper or a fighting sweeper. It's psychic form could be used as a bulky sweeper but again, I ask, why use this thing over Reuniclus or Jirachi? Because it can trick someone into thinking it's going to transform? Jirachi is a swiss army knife and already does that to people. Again, it's speed is in fact a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]And SD Virizion really needs to use SD to become dangerous, but no one complains about him. Besides, I've already explained how Relic Song can be a useful move in and of itself, even aside from the fact that it transforms Meloetta.
    75 base power is not useful. If you are relying on the 20% (after Serene Grace) confuse then maybe you need to get your priorities straight. If you are talking about doing damage to whatever switches in on you, then why not just go with Terrakion or a multitude of other Fighting pokemon that can do the exact same thing but without the crappy 75BP normal special attack? 1-turn set up isn't a problem if it really sets you up. But it doesn't set up Meloetta, it gets her into the right form to set up. Why not just go SD Lucario if you really want a Physical fighting sweeper? Because he's slower? Well then use Terrakion who has a muc hbetter stab combination and can also juke out opponents by making them think it's a Scarf set or Polish set etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]And? Choice Specs is not a good idea on a Pokemon with only 77 base SpA and Choice Scarf is a waste on a Pokemon that already has an incredible base 128 speed stat. All it's really missing out on is the Choice Band, and even then Meloetta is far better off throwing around Close Combats and blowing past Skarmory with Thunder, Gliscor with HP Ice, etc.
    Last I checked a lot of high speed pokemon run Scarfs. Sounds like you're contradicting yourself here. You said earlier a lot of low speed mons use scarfs. Why not just say 'a lot of mons use scarfs regardless of speed' instead of making this contradiction? Also, who would switch Skarmory into this thing risking it not being a Relic Song user? This is a minor point but it still begs the question. Also, I'd like to point out Jirachi and company blows through Skarmory much better with Thunder. And same scenario with Gliscor.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]Normal/Psychic isn't a great typing, but then again, since when has pure Psychic been a coveted typing? Sure, you lose the Fighting resistance, but the Ghost immunity means you have one less weakness than pure Psychic types.
    Pure Psychic's only big advantage admittingly has been that lovely Fighting Resist. But it is so much better than Normal/Psychic since Fighting moves are so, so much more common. Also, ghost immunity for the psychic form really isn't that big-a-deal considering it sits on top of 100/77/128 which I must admit is good if not great special bulk.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]That was never the argument. No one said that Meloetta will be OU just because it has powerful attacks and powerful offensive stats.
    Then why will it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]No, Typhlosion isn't OU because it has a SR weakness, a shallow movepool, and fairly average stats. It also doesn't have much to distinguish itself from Infernape besides access to Eruption. Sceptile isn't OU because of its frailty, average power, and the fact that other offensive Grass types like Breloom and Virizion have qualities that make them more desirable in OU. In fact, Sceptile's ability to run a special sweeper and physical SD sweeper sets makes it rather unpredictable.

    My point which I doubt you noticed was that some people were saying that 128 special attack was amazing. When in OU it's only above average I simply said that being able to fire high-powered moved does not make a pokemon OU alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]How, pray tell, is a Pokemon that can go from a special tank to a lightning-quick physical sweeper with a virtual flip of a switch predictable? Now, you want to know who's predictable? Skarmory. It literally runs the same set almost every time, with the only major difference being physically or specially defensive. Guess what tier he's been in since Gen 2.
    Once you pop relic song the jig is up. If you don't relic song your first turn the jig is up. Like nearly every pokemon, once the first move is used, it can be dealt with. The problem here is that Meloetta only has 2 real viable strategies. Scarf Psychic form, or Relic Song-into-Fighting form. Both of which aren't that huge a threat and are generally lesser versions of other pokemon I mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]I don't see how, to be honest. Not only is Reuniclus slower than Christmas, it's less bulky and less powerful. It also somewhat struggles to get past Tyranitar since it has low speed and relies on a shaky Focus Blast, while Meloetta breezes by with Close Combat. "Better typing" is also debatable, since adding Normal to Psychic typing trades a resistance for an immunity and loses a weakness at the same time. Not that mono-Psychic is a great typing to begin with.
    Did you honestly just say Reuniclus is less bulky? Stat wise sure. But last I checked it gove Recover and had Magic Guard.

    No, Mono typing isn't great, but it's better than P+Normal. Tyranitar won't be coming into Fight Form meloetta. Why would it? Are you going to Relic Song as someone switches in Tyranitar? Then what? No intelligent person would leave tyranitar in on Fighting-Form because it's predictably going to either Close Combat or attempt to over predict you. Sorry but you're simply showing how predictable Meloetta is with your scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]I'm starting to get the feeling that you've been using Meloetta wrong. Scarf Terrakion is a revenge killer. Meloetta's P. forme is built to sweep mid to late game. They're two different Pokemon with two different roles. Not only that, but Scarf Terrakion lacks the power that Meloetta with a Life Orb has, cannot switch moves, and struggles to sweep teams when it's trapped into one move.
    i'm starting to get the feeling you never used Meloetta at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    [spoiler=...]Or they send in, say, Scarf Terrakion, only to meet a STAB Psychic coming off a huge SpA stat.
    Nobody would send Scarf Terrakion on any Meloetta, but it is a better fighting type than Fighting Form meloetta since it can boost and run a multitude of sets. If it gets a free switch like any other scarfed mon, it would kill Fighting form Meloetta. Again, it's a predictable mon.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
        Spoiler:- ...:
    Reuiniclus has Recover and Magic guard. It is hands down better.

    Latias I don't feel would be played the same as Meloetta, apples to oranges but it does has much better typing and can switch in on a multitude of special moves (grass, fire, electric, water) which Meloetta can't

    Meloetta can't get past tyranitar, only force it to switch out if it plays Relic song. Focus Miss is a bad excuse for obvious reasons.
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  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by RDSchley View Post
    umm. no it's not. Only in it's normal/fighting form is it fast.

    I'm tired of seeing people take the best of both worlds and completely ignore the issues with this mon. It's slow in it's psychic form, and fast in it's fighting form. If there was a way to only use the fighting form, yes, it might make it into OU. But as of now, Since you are required to use a move to transform first, can't use a choice item while in fighting form and have a sub-par typing in normal, its simply going to be border-line and a gimmick.
    How is Psychic/Normal Subpar? It gives it two weaknesses to Bug and Ghost. I don't see how that's gimmicky in any way.
    Again, yes, a high powered move off of a high attack/special stat doesn't make an OU pokemon alone, if it did, Typhlosion would be OU immediately as well as Sceptile with leaf storm. But they aren't know why? Because they are predictable. Meloetta is predictable and a wasted slot on most teams. Reuniclus does what the Psychic form does so much better and with better typing, and the fighting form can't do what scarf terakion does or well, what any fighting pokemon can do due to the fact you have to waste a turn just to get this thing into the fighting form.
    Well then, I guess Landorus, Espeon, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Blissey, etc shouldn't be OU because they usually run just one set. Meloetta has two/three viable sets. And even if a Pokémon only has one set, does not mean it won't be OU.
    Use this thing, you'll fail when someone predicts your relic song to turn into the fighting form to sweep then kill you off with a scarfed revenge killer.

    Unless you can sell me on the Psychic/Normal form doing something productive, this thing will not be that useful with Alakazam, Lati@s, Reuniclus, Metagross, Jirachi and a host of other psychic mon's doing what this thing does better.

    Crappy gimmick is crappy on a crappy pokemon.
    These are all viable sets.

    Meloetta @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast / HP Ice

    Meloetta @ Life Orb
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Relic Song
    - Close Combat
    - Shadow Claw
    - Substitute

    A special defensive set could be used as well.
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  16. #41
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    I'm just wondering how well of a mindgame can Meloetta play in OU. Just a hypothesis, a Zoroark + Melo offensive core could can seem to work. Zoro can fake a Meloetta for two reasons. First, Zoroark take normal entry hazards damage like Meloetta. Second, with Focus Blast, he can also fake a pure Special Meloetta, luring Meloetta's regular special counters, Jellicent and Jirachi, in. Zoroark can OHKO Jellicent with Night Daze and 2-3HKO Jirachi with Flamethrower. Meloetta can then come in and proceed to sing the crap out of everyone and sweep. This core is far from perfect and has many exploitable holes, but I feel this is the general direction I'm going to be taking Meloetta.
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  18. #43
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    I'm tired of aruging with someone who knows they are wrong and is now trying to confuse the masses, I'll run it by the rest of the group very simply and explain why using close combat in Psychic form is a bad idea.

    1. no form of recovery. Slow mons generally get away with being slow because they have some form of recovery. Meloetta does not. No, it's not fast. Stop saying it is. 90 speed is not going to get you to sweep. As for playing defensively, just drop that it's going to be played that way. It cannot recover and it has horrible resistances (Psychic, and an immunity to ghost).

    2. Relic Song is bad. If you are relying on a 20% chance to sleep then there is no reasoning with you. I guess I should rely on Ancient Power to give me the 1+ boosts. It's a straight up gimmick. Yeah, its cool when it does sleep but if that is what you are using it for then you're going to lose.

    3. Tyranitar is not switching in on Meloetta. Period. Why do you keep trying to insist someone is going to switch tyranitar into this thing? You song like a fool saying that. I guess since you insist on using Relic Song as a reliable sleep inducing move that the 'skill level' of the people you play against would sadly switch tyranitar into this thing. This scenario is like switching Salamence into Mamoswine because you suspect an EQ not an Ice Shard. So I have no idea what on earth you are talking about here.

    4. Resistances do in fact matter. Why are steels used to much? Resistances. Stats are great but resistances are almost better in every situation. Latias has much better resists thus making Latias bulkier against those types. But again, this is Apples to Oranges. Latias is played entirely differently do it being, you know, fast.. oh and has recover... and operates in all kinds of Weather... something Meloetta can't say it does.

    5. Meloetta is predictable. I'm starting to think you don't know what it means. It'll carry Relic Song if it wants to switch, Psychic-attack, A fighting move and filler. What else is there? Thunder? Energy Ball? Trick Room is done with better mons but I guess it's possible. Just fear psychic stab and it's almost guaranteed to carry a fighting move of some kind since it needs some way of getting through steel types.

    What exactly does this thing threaten? Or fully check in the OU metagame that other mons do better? What about it's bulky-ness? Again, specially, it's pretty good but needs wish support and/or heal bell. In which case I ask why even bother and stick to Blissey or Jirachi or Latias or a host of many other specially bulky mons that share it's typings. How does it fair in weather?

    I see the potential sure, but honestly, the OU metagame is flooded with bulky psychics and normals already. As for just pure power, I've already listed a host of other mons that do it. You even provided Latias which now that I think about it, can do Meloetta's job better too.

    What pray-tell do you want Meloetta to switch in on? Ghost moves? Weak-sauce special moves? Just an example, lets say that yes, Meloetta 99% of the time scares Tyranitar off. A Fireblast from a Tyranitar still does about 30% to a max hp, 0 sp.def investment Meloetta. That is before Rocks, and Sandstorm damage.

    I'm sure you'll whine that this is not the right way to use Meloetta then please provide me a stat spread that is logically sound. I guess 252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP? maybe you'll want the best case scenario where Tyranitar uses Ice Beam and a maxed HP, SP Defensive Meloetta? Then I would say that nobody would use such a thing because a close combat from psychic form meloetta with no attack evs doesn't KO standard mixed Tyranitar in this situation.

    So, again a standard tyranitar, a pokemon in which Meloetta would love to switch in on, cannot scare standard mixed-attacker Tyranitar out because it cannot 1hKO it with close combat like you suggested. Close combat only does about 65-77%. with the -1 def/sp def on Meloetta, this puts it in danger of being crunched to death.So you cannot come in on tyraniter who Fire Blasts you (brings you down to 70%) then try to scare it out with a close combat. You'll only do 70% then it'll crunch you on the same turn, possibly killing you. I didn't run the calcs on the incoming crunch against a meloetta with -1 def from CC use. I think it's safe to assume it would KO a 64% (Sandstorm damage) Meloetta, but even if it didn't, I don't think your meloetta would be of much use anymore after that hit.

    Sorry, Meloetta isn't that great. That calcs proved it against your scenario. I'm sure you'll say something about relic song or Switching into something else but in all honesty, you're not selling Meloetta very well. and you haven't provided a moveset that is plausible or provided any calcs against things that would truly fear Meloetta, I have... and they don't look good for it. Yeah it can 1hko some things but again and again and again.. why use this thing over X? Stop dodging the question and give me a reason to use this thing over Latias, Blissey, Reuniclus, Terrakion, Lucario, Chansey, Jirachi, heck Metagross?

    It doesn't form any spectacular combos (like scizor+Rotom-W) as far as I know either. Honestly I'm trying my best here to think of a way to use this thing and I'm not seeing it. Rain team? It gets Thunder but so do a lot of other pokemon.. maybe? How about double or triples? It sets up Trick Room.

    It DOES learn Work Up which may be useful to it... So maybe Relic Song, Close Combat, Work up, Psychic(Shock)? Without recovery it'll be hard pressed to really boost but I guess this is plausible. You could even replace Relic Song with Shadow Ball/Hidden Power to get around Reuniclus/other psychics and just go with that. But then what does it threaten with this set? What can it come in on, threaten, then set up without being checked? Tyranitar is a no go as stated above. Lucario I guess. I'm not running calcs on nearly every pokemon in OU but do you really want to switch this thing in on something you don't resist, take a chunk of damage then attempt to boost with only 90 speed? I'm not so sure I would. Maybe some wouldn't mind but I don't like the idea of slowly being chipped away or being punched in the face by a possible Scizor praying I can sweep off of +1 atk/sp atk with only 90 speed. I know some mons get away with it but generally thats because they are really bulky/have recovery of some kind (gliscor)/have resistances/ability that supports the sweep/etc.

    So:

    Work Up
    Psychic/Psyshock
    Close Combat
    Shadowball/Shadowclaw/Hidden Power whatever/Thunder/Energy ball

    Any other decent sets that may possibly work no matter how sub-par Meloetta is?

    edit: it doesn't even resist poison. lol
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDSchley View Post
    I'm tired of aruging with someone who knows they are wrong and is now trying to confuse the masses, I'll run it by the rest of the group very simply and explain why using close combat in Psychic form is a bad idea.
    If you're tired of arguing with jesusfreak, allow me to show you how Meloetta is, in fact, useful.

    1. no form of recovery. Slow mons generally get away with being slow because they have some form of recovery. Meloetta does not. No, it's not fast. Stop saying it is. 90 speed is not going to get you to sweep. As for playing defensively, just drop that it's going to be played that way. It cannot recover and it has horrible resistances (Psychic, and an immunity to ghost).
    Meloetta is more of a tank/stallbreaker, the way I see it. And 90 speed is quite fast. Sure, it's no Starmie or Terakion.

    2. Relic Song is bad. If you are relying on a 20% chance to sleep then there is no reasoning with you. I guess I should rely on Ancient Power to give me the 1+ boosts. It's a straight up gimmick. Yeah, its cool when it does sleep but if that is what you are using it for then you're going to lose.
    The 20% chance is nice when it happens but no-one will use it for that. All its used for is for changing forms. 75 power and 20% sleep are just cool extras.

    3. Tyranitar is not switching in on Meloetta. Period. Why do you keep trying to insist someone is going to switch tyranitar into this thing? You song like a fool saying that. I guess since you insist on using Relic Song as a reliable sleep inducing move that the 'skill level' of the people you play against would sadly switch tyranitar into this thing. This scenario is like switching Salamence into Mamoswine because you suspect an EQ not an Ice Shard. So I have no idea what on earth you are talking about here.
    If you've already switched in and the opponent knows you aren't running Relic Song, ScarfTyranitar can come in on anything bar CC/Focus Blast.

    4. Resistances do in fact matter. Why are steels used to much? Resistances. Stats are great but resistances are almost better in every situation. Latias has much better resists thus making Latias bulkier against those types. But again, this is Apples to Oranges. Latias is played entirely differently do it being, you know, fast.. oh and has recover... and operates in all kinds of Weather... something Meloetta can't say it does.
    For an offensive pokemon, resistances won't matter as much to it than Latias. And as you said, Latias and Meloetta play very differently, so I'm not exactly sure what you're point was there.

    5. Meloetta is predictable. I'm starting to think you don't know what it means. It'll carry Relic Song if it wants to switch, Psychic-attack, A fighting move and filler. What else is there? Thunder? Energy Ball? Trick Room is done with better mons but I guess it's possible. Just fear psychic stab and it's almost guaranteed to carry a fighting move of some kind since it needs some way of getting through steel types.
    We've been over this:
    1. Meloetta is not predictable. Either you face a reasonably fast and bulky Special tank, or you face a lightning quick physical sweeper giving it completely different counters. Meloetta can run more than one set you know.
    2. Predictable pokemon are still seen in every tier.
    It doesn't matter whether Meloetta is predictable or not, as it can still easily be viable.

    What exactly does this thing threaten? Or fully check in the OU metagame that other mons do better? What about it's bulky-ness? Again, specially, it's pretty good but needs wish support and/or heal bell. In which case I ask why even bother and stick to Blissey or Jirachi or Latias or a host of many other specially bulky mons that share it's typings. How does it fair in weather?
    I'm not saying Meloetta will shake OU to it's core or anything, but its not as if Meloetta will simply fall to UU or BL upon its release.

    I see the potential sure, but honestly, the OU metagame is flooded with bulky psychics and normals already. As for just pure power, I've already listed a host of other mons that do it. You even provided Latias which now that I think about it, can do Meloetta's job better too.

    What pray-tell do you want Meloetta to switch in on? Ghost moves? Weak-sauce special moves? Just an example, lets say that yes, Meloetta 99% of the time scares Tyranitar off. A Fireblast from a Tyranitar still does about 30% to a max hp, 0 sp.def investment Meloetta. That is before Rocks, and Sandstorm damage.
    That calc you just did used a 252 spatk LO Tyranitar. All I can say is, I've never had to switch in on that before.

    I'm sure you'll whine that this is not the right way to use Meloetta then please provide me a stat spread that is logically sound. I guess 252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP? maybe you'll want the best case scenario where Tyranitar uses Ice Beam and a maxed HP, SP Defensive Meloetta? Then I would say that nobody would use such a thing because a close combat from psychic form meloetta with no attack evs doesn't KO standard mixed Tyranitar in this situation.
    If my memory is correct, jesusfreak was talking about using Hone Claws beforehand. A +1 Close Combat OHKOes 252/0 T-tar with no investment.

    Unless you use Relic Song, in which case you just began your sweep.


    Yeah it can 1hko some things but again and again and again.. why use this thing over X? Stop dodging the question and give me a reason to use this thing over Latias, Blissey, Reuniclus, Terrakion, Lucario, Chansey, Jirachi, heck Metagross?
    Because Meloetta plays slightly different to all those listed. It sounds cheesy, I know but Meloetta is quite a unique Pokemon with a weird stat distribution and Relic Song. Its better than some of its peers in some respects and worse in others and on the face of it, it doesn't really stand out among them But it can stand equal to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDSchley View Post
    I'm tired of aruging with someone who knows they are wrong and is now trying to confuse the masses, I'll run it by the rest of the group very simply and explain why using close combat in Psychic form is a bad idea.
    You should really try to be nicer.

    1. no form of recovery. Slow mons generally get away with being slow because they have some form of recovery. Meloetta does not. No, it's not fast. Stop saying it is. 90 speed is not going to get you to sweep. As for playing defensively, just drop that it's going to be played that way. It cannot recover and it has horrible resistances (Psychic, and an immunity to ghost).
    How hard is it to understand that you only use Close Combat to get a KO. The reason Close Combat is such a good move is because if you play well you will never have to worry about the -1 defenses as you either hit first and KO, or hit second and not take a -1 defense hit. 90 base speed is more than enough to blaze through defensive teams meaning mixed sets can wreck havok. 90 base speed isn't sweeper material but it is still very fast. A boosting nature outruns a TON of legit threats like Gyarados, Mamoswine, Dragonite, Adamant Lucario etc.

    2. Relic Song is bad. If you are relying on a 20% chance to sleep then there is no reasoning with you. I guess I should rely on Ancient Power to give me the 1+ boosts. It's a straight up gimmick. Yeah, its cool when it does sleep but if that is what you are using it for then you're going to lose.
    No, it's not that great but Relic Song is far from useless. Relic Song plays more like Dragon Dance that does damage and has a 20% chance to OHKO. You also seem to assume every set will use Relic Song. Why?

    4. Resistances do in fact matter. Why are steels used to much? Resistances. Stats are great but resistances are almost better in every situation. Latias has much better resists thus making Latias bulkier against those types. But again, this is Apples to Oranges. Latias is played entirely differently do it being, you know, fast.. oh and has recover... and operates in all kinds of Weather... something Meloetta can't say it does.
    This is true, Meloetta has crappy typing. It isn't an inferior Latias though. Besides being Psychic type and having good Special Defense they have very little in common.

    5. Meloetta is predictable. I'm starting to think you don't know what it means. It'll carry Relic Song if it wants to switch, Psychic-attack, A fighting move and filler. What else is there? Thunder? Energy Ball? Trick Room is done with better mons but I guess it's possible. Just fear psychic stab and it's almost guaranteed to carry a fighting move of some kind since it needs some way of getting through steel types.
    Meloetta is probably one of the least predictable Pokemon since Mew. Probably the only thing you can be sure of is it running Close Combat and even then you can't be 100% certain.

    What exactly does this thing threaten? Or fully check in the OU metagame that other mons do better? What about it's bulky-ness? Again, specially, it's pretty good but needs wish support and/or heal bell. In which case I ask why even bother and stick to Blissey or Jirachi or Latias or a host of many other specially bulky mons that share it's typings. How does it fair in weather?
    I doubt this will be high OU. To be honest it's true Meloetta isn't perfect. It isn't like Latios or Terrakion that can get KOs by clicking on or two attacks or like defensive behemoths like Blissey but Meloetta has a unique set of moves, typing and stats that nothing else can brag about. It has such a massive movepool and offensive power due to its ability to Transform, not to mention Relic Song (if it runs it) having a chance of "OHKOing" (sorta).

    I see the potential sure, but honestly, the OU metagame is flooded with bulky psychics and normals already. As for just pure power, I've already listed a host of other mons that do it. You even provided Latias which now that I think about it, can do Meloetta's job better too.
    The only normal types in OU are the pink blobs which Meloetta is nothing like. There are 9 Psychics in OU all of which are completely different. You don't seem to understand Meloetta isn't about power or bulk it's about unpredictability. It can run SO MANY sets all of which have completely different counters.

    What pray-tell do you want Meloetta to switch in on? Ghost moves? Weak-sauce special moves? Just an example, lets say that yes, Meloetta 99% of the time scares Tyranitar off. A Fireblast from a Tyranitar still does about 30% to a max hp, 0 sp.def investment Meloetta. That is before Rocks, and Sandstorm damage.
    Uhh, no. It does 21% - 25% from MAX Special Attack Tyranitar. Virtually no Tyranitar run Special Attack. Fire Blast will do 16.8% - 19.8% to max HP Meloetta. It's true Meloetta has few switch in opportunities. It has great bulk though so don't act like it dies to a neutral hit.

    I'm sure you'll whine that this is not the right way to use Meloetta then please provide me a stat spread that is logically sound. I guess 252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP? maybe you'll want the best case scenario where Tyranitar uses Ice Beam and a maxed HP, SP Defensive Meloetta? Then I would say that nobody would use such a thing because a close combat from psychic form meloetta with no attack evs doesn't KO standard mixed Tyranitar in this situation.
    252 SA / 252 HP? Of course you think Meloetta is bad.


    I'll add some set examples later, but I have to go do stuff now.

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  22. #47
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    I would agree with what profesco said and i might just use meleotta in battle
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  23. #48
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    honestly, i cant wait to try out meloetta. serene grace is always a good boon to a poke, even on dunsparce XD. add that to iits ability to switch formes, and it can be almost uncounterable, as it seems to have different counters to each form, i.e. jesus's example of tyranitar. doesnt want to switch in on it at all for fear of a relic song. alas, an item to change it, like gracidea on skymin, would help.

    and rdschley....just stop. you have been counter-argued by 3 very contributing members of SPPF. 2 of them mods. honestly, i cannot even add to jesus's comments, as i have never played dw ou, and he has already said everything.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedarklord2155 View Post
    and rdschley....just stop. you have been counter-argued by 3 very contributing members of SPPF. 2 of them mods. honestly, i cannot even add to jesus's comments, as i have never played dw ou, and he has already said everything.
    Would be four members, if I wasn't tired and lazy.

    I agree that this thing can be used without being outclassed, I'm just not up to arguing right now....

    But really? Asking for a good reason to use it over Blissy and Metagross? As if it isn't obvious just by looking at the stats...
    I guess since you insist on using Relic Song as a reliable sleep inducing move that the 'skill level' of the people you play against would sadly switch tyranitar into this thing.
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    I can't see how changing forms is a bad thing... it is one of 3 pokemons who can switch types mid battle (not including camoflage) the the other two are terrible (kecleon and castform) while meloetta is actually really good it can change all her weakness for neutral or resistance

    weakness in aria form: dark,bug
    resistances in piroette form: dark,bug,rock

    weaknesses in piroette form: flying,psychic,fighting
    resistances in aria form:psychic

    immunity to ghost

    STAB on 3 types!

    Actually I tried the piroette form but I had problems pulling it off.. I used a sub CM set with 252HP/252defense bold spread with relic song to change weaknesses and psychic as main STAB.
    and BTW relic song is a base 112 attack after STAB and is resisted by 2 types and doesn't affect ghost I don't see how it is "useless" the 20% sleep chance is a BONUS not something to relay on but an extra.


    Also there could be a way to change the form in which meloetta enters the battle in B2W2 it would make it more interesting.


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