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Thread: Taboos in society.

  1. #51
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    Atheism shouldn't be taboo. I understand why it is taboo (given that the religious right consists entirely of control freaks), but we live in an age where critical thinking should be encouraged.
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    I've never seen anything in my society that is against Atheism. I agree critical thinking should be encouraged though, just wondering is Atheism seen as a big taboo in the states or something? I have heard that you are more religious over there :/


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    Yes, Atheism can be a taboo in the United States. It depends on who you're speaking to. I'm Atheist, and I've come across people of various religions (normally Christians) and they have all had a different take on it. Some are extremely against it and immediately begin to try and convert me, or will shun me. Others are more laid-back and don't let it affect them or our relationship. However, I think that heavily religious people tend to be more outspoken in general than many non-religious people on this matter, or at least they garner more attention (not always good), and that's why you'd be more likely to hear about the US being against Atheism in Europe. But that's just my opinion.

    My taboos that bother me:
    -Why certain words gain bad connotation. For example, cuss words, which I think has been touched upon earlier. Why did words with perfectly normal, appropriate meanings get twisted into words that are banned from being said on websites, that can't be spoken in the presence of children, and that offend? (For example, if you define "***" in a dictionary, you'll find a list of definitions such as 'to wear out by labor', 'to fray a rope at the ends', etc. Nothing about an offensive term for homosexual people.)
    -And on the complete other end, when did it become socially unacceptable to like anime/manga?
    Last edited by midnightelise; 15th July 2012 at 8:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightelise View Post
    Yes, Atheism can be a taboo in the United States. It depends on who you're speaking to. I'm Atheist, and I've come across people of various religions (normally Christians) and they have all had a different take on it. Some are extremely against it and immediately begin to try and convert me, or will shun me. Others are more laid-back and don't let it affect them or our relationship. However, I think that heavily religious people tend to be more outspoken in general than many non-religious people on this matter, or at least they garner more attention (not always good), and that's why you'd be more likely to hear about the US being against Atheism in Europe. But that's just my opinion.
    Adding to this, the Christians that tend to be the most sharply judgemental toward other worldviews, particularly atheism, haven't been exposed as much to people that hold different beliefs. The type of Christians where they've been homeschooled by their Christian parents, go to church every Sunday and Wednesday, cannot listen to any other music except Christian music, etc. It's as if their entire life, they've only been around and experienced people that share the exact same belief system. So naturally, when the moment does come that they meet someone who's on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, they don't always recieve them well.

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    Hmm, I haven't come around the debate forum much, but this does seem a little more like a philosophical discussion, so let's see if I can put my two bits in here.

    There are some odd things about the suicide taboo for sure, but I'd say the most sensible explanation would be that death in the family often leaves the people that remain living distraught. To willingly bring the pain of that kind of loss on people close to one is considered unethical.

    That said, I still personally find it strange that society dictates that only an idiot would find nonconsensually ending the life of a wounded horse or dog unjust, yet believe in denying a person who could and did ask to cease living closure no matter how much they explicitly wish for it.

    As for bad words, I can kind of see how word taboos would evolve. I have some completely accepted words which put me in a bad frame of mind. It would just be a matter of the same words doing that to enough people for society to deem those words generally unacceptable.

    I was having a conversation about the issue of drugs with my dad earlier on. He says part of it might be that the government might have led to drug use as a taboo due to mind-expanding drugs being used by the hippies that disapproved of their war.

    As for nudity, I'd like to expand pikadon's question to the taboo of public nudity on a whole; did the nudity taboo arise from people's getting aroused by nudity or did it create it? The breast issue is probably the most relevant, as it involves a part of the body that isn't a sex organ itself, but I'm still wondering if people don't find the exposure titillating purely because it's reserved for sex in this society.

    Come to think of it, I do wonder what exactly is behind the whole sex taboo anyway. Clearly some seemingly groundless taboos like masturbation and homosexuality stem from the general sex taboo society holds. So what exactly would lead to this taboo anyway?

    A friend of my sister's pointed out that premarital sex was probably frowned upon because back in the early times, there was no way to be sure those people wouldn't conceive a baby that would end up with no dad. But that still doesn't explain things that can't possibly lead to reproduction, like the above mentioned taboos.

    The more I think about it, the more it seems a lot of these things (drugs/alcohol might fit into this too) fit into the whole idea that wanting to enjoy yourself is selfish. People enjoy having sex or doing sexual related things, it's a taboo. People enjoy getting drunk/stoned, it's a taboo. People enjoy carelessly consuming calories, getting fat is frowned upon. So pretty much, the next question would be why either God is against humans attaining pleasure, or why people would want to make other people believe he is. Can't quite think that far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Leggs View Post
    This is only marginally related, but the fact that alcohol is usually referred to in a larger context as "drugs & alcohol", which is such a ubiquitous statement that I know a sizable number of people who believe that alcohol isn't a drug. I've always been pretty disturbed by the special place alcohol serves in our society.
    I see what you mean. My first thought was that it's consumed as a beverage, not just for the effects it has on the brain, but people call caffeine a drug, and it isn't consumed any less legally or recreationally, so I don't see why alcohol needs to be singled out.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightelise View Post
    -And on the complete other end, when did it become socially unacceptable to like anime/manga?
    Probably around the time Western society declared animation and comics exclusively children's entertainment. Though there still are Western cartoons for adults, and if they distance themselves from kid shows with all the profanity and sex jokes that are put in them, I don't see why fans of Japanese works should get flagged as horny freaks. I guess there might be shades of xenophobia somewhere in there.

    Now, I'd personally say someone who gives no explanation save "it's simply objectively wrong" isn't worth starting an argument with in the first place.
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    Come to think of it, I do wonder what exactly is behind the whole sex taboo anyway. Clearly some seemingly groundless taboos like masturbation and homosexuality stem from the general sex taboo society holds. So what exactly would lead to this taboo anyway?
    I'd like to answer this in a very spiritual manner if i may, though their are some very knowledge-able beings in which do no find a problem with sex, one of the main reasons some people is is that in order to be truly productive you need to have your mind focused and when your chasing girls, your mind isn't advisably focused.

    Buddhist express this as mindfulness, i can see how some may think sex can be a sin though it isnt a sin. Though it often does create many things in which will prevent the abundance of knowledge. Which is why many spiritual orders have restrictions upon sexual activities so that all within such orders can have focused minds.

    This is only marginally related, but the fact that alcohol is usually referred to in a larger context as "drugs & alcohol", which is such a ubiquitous statement that I know a sizable number of people who believe that alcohol isn't a drug. I've always been pretty disturbed by the special place alcohol serves in our society.
    The main reason alcohol is allowed into the public is because it stunts the minds of millions pure and simple. The governing orginisations of this world are corrupted by many things..
    Just like the hippies that found new knowledge by using substances to break out of the mold in which many educational systems were creating within the children wich they were involved with, others, find that an alternate state of consciousness during these days is more pleasurable because they know something is terribly wrong with the system. Regardless of weather or not that can distinguish one thing from another.

    Obviously the main reason their are taboos is because of ones preference of things over another, though the majority of taboos can be explained very very simply.
    Their is a governing system in which is created to control thought, in which will control minds and thus human beings. If ones thought is limited by this that and the other then theirs only so much they can do, plain and simple.

    If someone or something can say this is wrong because of this that and the other and makes sence, though they are not in a powerful position they are often labeled as ludicrous. Just like the witches, shamans and or witch doctored that date because through the decades and space.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial Moth View Post
    I'd like to answer this in a very spiritual manner if i may, though their are some very knowledge-able beings in which do no find a problem with sex, one of the main reasons some people is is that in order to be truly productive you need to have your mind focused and when your chasing girls, your mind isn't advisably focused.
    Sex is bad because it is a distraction? Couldn't you use the same argument for almost anything. You should really work on your spelling.
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    LOl i don't need to work on my spelling if you understood every word in which i was trying to say and how i said it, obliviously you understand that which i was trying to say because of your response so i dont think i have to respond to that,most of my spelling errors are cause i type fast i try not to read over what i right and constantly edit..
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    Marijuana is certainly a strange Taboo. I feel like I'm admitting I robbed a bank or something sometimes, it's just some weed.

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    There's huge taboo about Paganism, and societal views on those with Pagan beliefs are pretty offensive. Then again, I blame certain sects of Wiccans and Neo-Pagans, as well as parts of New Orleans, for a lot of that.

    Of course, I also don't see why sex, sexuality, nudity, et al. are so taboo. I find the human body beautiful. Sure, I may finds boobs repulsive, but I still don't think all this censorship is a good idea. The sex-ed in America is generally just pretty bad, and references to sex in general are just seen as so risque, it's becoming ingrained. Why can't people have a sense of pride in their sexuality? Sure, sexually active teens, probably not the best, but masturbation exists and no amount of refusing to admit guys pound the pud or that girls pet the kitty will actually stop them from doing it. I think, as a society, we see any kind of representation of sexuality not covered in metaphors and wrapped up in indecipherable context as something bad.

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    Suicide should be frowned upon because if it's accepted, people may kill themselves when they're simply in a difficult stage of life. For example, this exaggeration is so over the top it's practically a joke, but it could be like:

    John had a hard day at work. He has an assignment tomorrow he won't get done. His girlfriend just dumped him. His cat died. The power goes out. John has had enough. He knows that suicide is an everyday thing, and he knows that his life is looking pretty grim. John takes his own life.

    Obviously a complete over exaggeration but you get my point.

    About public nudity, I think it's frowned upon because it's violating other people's freedom to not see your bare bottom in the local grocer's. It's like kissing every person you pass. Yes you're restricted but more people would be affected if it was OK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Llama View Post
    About public nudity, I think it's frowned upon because it's violating other people's freedom to not see your bare bottom in the local grocer's. It's like kissing every person you pass. Yes you're restricted but more people would be affected if it was OK.
    I did some searching into my local laws after a nude bike ride happened, and I found out in my area it is completely legal to be naked in public. As long as you don't do anything sexual, you can walk down the street totally nude. Unfortunately it's Canada so it's a little chilly to be nude.

    I don't know how I feel about this. It should be taboo because some people nobody would want to see naked. Not to mention all the kids scared for life. Then again, if from birth children were raised to embrace nudity maybe it wouldn't be so weird?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
    I did some searching into my local laws after a nude bike ride happened, and I found out in my area it is completely legal to be naked in public. As long as you don't do anything sexual, you can walk down the street totally nude. Unfortunately it's Canada so it's a little chilly to be nude.

    I don't know how I feel about this. It should be taboo because some people nobody would want to see naked. Not to mention all the kids scared for life. Then again, if from birth children were raised to embrace nudity maybe it wouldn't be so weird?
    Canada's been a really warm lately and the source of the major heatwave in USA is from Canada. But that's not my point.

    Now, I don't really have any evidence for suicide (besides this http://suicideinfo.ca/Library/AboutSuicide/FAQ.aspx) but this is what I'm saying. Listen to my theory then speculate.

    First, suicide is frowned upon because you are a part of society whether you like it or not. It is the only way we can help humans and support ourselves. And just because you have a bad day doesn't mean that you can just commit suicide. Life does get better. If you commit suicide then you're missing all the fun experiences you can achieve.

    Note that this theory is only for if you're depressed. Forced Suicide is a different story.
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    >Suicide

    Let's say suicide becomes accepted in society. Are people really stupid enough to commit suicide just because of a rough day at work?

    >Nudity

    If public nudity becomes accepted, it will take a generation or so before the public will become accustomed to it. After which, I see no problem with it. Sure, there are people who may not want to see certain individuals' private parts, but after an innocent glance you have the right to look away. Plus, that kind of ideology came from the whole taboo on nudity in the first place.

    >Sex/Gender Roles

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    1) Sex - Thanks to access to pornography, gender roles in society, and the representation of women in society: men have expectations of women as being a loving and nurturing mother by day, and a beautiful sexual deviant who quenches their wild desires at night. That doesn't scream equality now does it? On top of that, there's a double-standard in place: Women are to be objectified by the greater masses, but men feel the need to protect their bodies even though they objectify other women (it's the one where your friend might want your sister, but gets pissed off if you want his). Where is the equality in this? After all I'm sure a woman can make up her own mind about whether or not she wants to engage in sexual acts. After all, she's no less human than you and I.
    Who's to say a man can't be a loving and nurturing father by day, and a sexual deviant who quenches their wife's desires at night? Also, there are men who objectify women, but there aren't women who objectify men? It can work the other way around too, and this sort of equality is what the last century has been working towards.

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    I love you, Charm.

    To make this not spam, I'll say it's pretty taboo to talk about gender roles when it comes to gay couples, aside from the risque question that always irks me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chidori__O View Post
    Canada's been a really warm lately and the source of the major heatwave in USA is from Canada. But that's not my point.

    Now, I don't really have any evidence for suicide (besides this http://suicideinfo.ca/Library/AboutSuicide/FAQ.aspx) but this is what I'm saying. Listen to my theory then speculate.

    First, suicide is frowned upon because you are a part of society whether you like it or not. It is the only way we can help humans and support ourselves. And just because you have a bad day doesn't mean that you can just commit suicide. Life does get better. If you commit suicide then you're missing all the fun experiences you can achieve.

    Note that this theory is only for if you're depressed. Forced Suicide is a different story.
    I wouldn't advocate people's right to just off themselves because they got dumped/fired/had a bad day. The woman whom i have mentioned is fighting for the right to be euthanized. There is an interesting case of a man who had a severely retarded daughter. She couldn't do the simplest of tasks. The medication the doctors had her on to keep her from dying prevented her from taking pain medication. So she was in consistent excruciating pain. The father went to court to try and fight for the right to euthanize his daughter - since she was in terrible pain. He lost. So the man took matters into his own hands and euthanized her in a painless way. He's now in prison. (A quick Google search should find the story). The aforementioned example would be an instance where I believe suicide/euthanasia shouldn't be so taboo.

    Personally, if I was diagnosed with cancer with had no hope of recovery, I might consider suicide. Especially if the cancer was very painful. Why suffer and wait to die when I could die painlessly now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
    I wouldn't advocate people's right to just off themselves because they got dumped/fired/had a bad day. The woman whom i have mentioned is fighting for the right to be euthanized. There is an interesting case of a man who had a severely retarded daughter. She couldn't do the simplest of tasks. The medication the doctors had her on to keep her from dying prevented her from taking pain medication. So she was in consistent excruciating pain. The father went to court to try and fight for the right to euthanize his daughter - since she was in terrible pain. He lost. So the man took matters into his own hands and euthanized her in a painless way. He's now in prison. (A quick Google search should find the story). The aforementioned example would be an instance where I believe suicide/euthanasia shouldn't be so taboo.

    Personally, if I was diagnosed with cancer with had no hope of recovery, I might consider suicide. Especially if the cancer was very painful. Why suffer and wait to die when I could die painlessly now?

    This particular taboo is always going to be objective though because of the different pain everyone feels and how we all deal with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charminions View Post
    Who's to say a man can't be a loving and nurturing father by day, and a sexual deviant who quenches their wife's desires at night?
    Why would the husband have to wait till night? >

    So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial Moth View Post
    This particular taboo is always going to be objective though because of the different pain everyone feels and how we all deal with it.
    Yeah. What I'm saying is that why would people care if I wanted to commit suicide. It's my life right? And if I'm in serious pain with no hope then there isn't much of a point to live on. Society still frowns on this though.
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    I think suicide can be a very beautiful thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitn3y View Post
    i think suicide can be a very beautiful thing.
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    Public nudity is terrible. I don't care how hot the weather is, where a light tank top if you gotta!

    Also I think PDA should be limited to a hand hold and a peck on the lips. I don't care if you're gay, straight, bisexual, or lesbian, I don't want to see you smack lips together!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitn3y View Post
    I think suicide can be a very beautiful thing.
    Troll! Troll in the dungeon!

    Suicide is just selfish in my opinion. Killing yourself leaves everyone who loved you alone, and can ruin many lives besides your own. No matter how horrible you may think your life is, it could be worse, and it's possible to make it better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treecko's Awesomeness View Post
    Troll! Troll in the dungeon!

    Suicide is just selfish in my opinion. Killing yourself leaves everyone who loved you alone, and can ruin many lives besides your own. No matter how horrible you may think your life is, it could be worse, and it's possible to make it better.
    It depends if you make a difference between "suicide" and "assisted suicide". I can have no respect for the people who commit suicide, it's the easy solution and it's selfish but I can have respect for the people who have to make the difficult decision to end the life of a loved one who has mentally already died. Sadly that too is considered by some a taboo .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Treecko's Awesomeness View Post
    Troll! Troll in the dungeon!

    Suicide is just selfish in my opinion. Killing yourself leaves everyone who loved you alone, and can ruin many lives besides your own. No matter how horrible you may think your life is, it could be worse, and it's possible to make it better.
    As someone who has been suicidal in the past I can tell you that it's easy to talk about it from an outsiders point of view but some people really cannot cope. Without understanding exactly what is happening you cannot brush things off as 'it could be worse' because everyone has their own concept on what is hard to deal with. For example some people can cope with failure easily, others take it painfully. Meanwhile some people can take the death of a loved one easier than others. Also you fail to take into consideration those who have no loved ones left, those who have lost their entire family, have no friends and so forth.

    Making your life better isn't always possible, some things cannot change no matter how hard you try and some people just cannot take that. I wouldn't call it selfish, because no-one commits suicide at the drop of a hat, some people think death is the only escape regardless of how sad it sounds.


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