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Thread: Your stance on Goals?

  1. #1
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    Default Your stance on Goals?

    This is something I've been a bit curious about for a while, someone suggest I make a thread on this months ago. Of course, being me, I've procrastinated on that. The topic is basically goals of a character. Pokemon League Champion, Pokemon Master, Top Coordinator, Breeder, Dragon Master, Pokemon Sommelier, etc. In this show we've seen very vague goals and very clear goals, for example, being a Top Coordinator is winning one Grand Festival. Being a Dragon Master is having a good emotional connection with Dragons and being able to raise their power greatly. Being a League Champion is managing to win one Pokemon League. And we've had more vague goals, for examples we don't know really what it takes to become a Best Water Pokemon Master or S-Class(Or high ranking, Sommelier). Goals are basically a raison d'etre for a character throughout their run and the thing they attempt to accomplish. It gives the character something to focus on as their own throughout their run on the show. Of course we've had goals in the past that were hardly touched upon and left extremely vague the whole time.(Pokemon Breeder & Best Water Pokemon Master are prime examples) Thoughts?

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    I do prefer a straight forward goal where we know what has to be done to a vague ill defined one

    Ashs for example. His main aim is to be a pokemon master, which is a bit vague. But he has the smaller, clearly defined goals every region. Gain 8 badges and win the league, nice and straight forward.

    Cilans goal annoys me in its vagueness. We don't know how he goes about becomeing S class so its difficult to root for him to achieve it until we know more. but I'm still hoping for him to give up his goal and become Lookers apprentice. Leading to a spin off where they travel the world fighting crime

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    The definition of "dragon master " is still vague. You didn't give any objective way to evaluate it and it seems more like an informal title than anything else. Especially odd is that you put a connoseur as a vague goal when we know there is some sort of exam for it.

    Anyways I dont really care what it is so long as the character reaches it before they get canned for the newer model.
    Last edited by LizardonX; 26th February 2013 at 3:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    The definition of "dragon master " is still vague. You didn't give any objective way to evaluate it and it seems more like an informal title than anything else.
    Dento said in the episode where Iris revealed her goal those two things are the qualifications to be a Dragon Master and Iris confirmed this. So it's not vague since we know exactly what she has to do to obtain her goal and it's actually reachable.

    1.Understand their hearts well.
    2.Train at least one strong Dragon.
    3.Done.

    Shaga's a Dragon Master.
    Last edited by Doryuzu; 26th February 2013 at 3:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    Dento said in the episode where Iris revealed her goal those two things are the qualifications to be a Dragon Master and Iris confirmed this. So it's not vague since we know exactly what she has to do to obtain her goal and it's actually reachable.

    1.Understand their hearts well.
    2.Train at least one strong Dragon.
    3.Done.

    Shaga's a Dragon Master.
    How do you measure that exactly, because from what Ive seen here cynthia would be a dragon master.

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    It's more about the journey anyway. They get given a goal as an excuse to go out there and travel. Just focus on the fun parts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    How do you measure that exactly, because from what Ive seen here cynthia would be a dragon master.
    Shirona can't understand the hearts of Dragons from what we know, thus she wouldn't be considered a Dragon Master.

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    I have no real preference. Even the vague goals have some level of clarity to them, Pokemon Breeders pretty much just take care of other people's Pokemon. Generally, all the goals are basically being the best at something. S-Rank Sommelier is just being the best Sommelier, probably need years of experience. I feel they give enough info for people to draw reasonable conclusions about the goals. Pokemon generally likes to keep things open ended too so there's never really any intention on having these goals laid out right in front of you, they want to get the message across that goals are ever lasting and you'll have to work at it your entire life, not spend a summer and become the greatest thing ever.

    I do like goals that have a clear path and get flesh out throughout a series, but I like open ended stuff too, so really, I'd take whatever they give, I'll enjoy it either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    Shirona can't understand the hearts of Dragons from what we know, thus she wouldn't be considered a Dragon Master.
    what exactly constitutes understanding hearts of dragons? becasue she knew dragonite well enough.

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    Cynthia can pretty much understand any Pokemon it seems. Guess that would be a Pokemon master. Honestly, I bet some time in the future some big shot character comes up and says that Ash is already a Pokemon master because he's got the heart even if he can't beat everyone in battle.
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    You know I was actually thinking about Pokemon Sommeliering /because of my favorite character derp/

    And I was thinking that actually it'd be less vague (and it's probably not vague at all) IF the anime was more focused on school instead of being focused on long journeys. :P I guess you could sort of say Dento would have to require data/or knowledge and then write a paper or take an exam at the end of the term and based on those scores or details his rank would be determined.

    Lately I've just been sort of viewing Dento journeying as being sort of like studying abroad. xD And it makes sense, especially given that Ash has a knack for bonding with his Pokemon with little problem.

    But it doesn't matter to me what they do. In all honesty I prefer no goal and just plain nonsense. :P

    ] but I'm still hoping for him to give up his goal and become Lookers apprentice. Leading to a spin off where they travel the world fighting crime [/s]
    You know the bad thing is, if Looker said for him to he'd seriously jump at the chance to become "LOOKER'S AMAZINGLY AWESOME DETECTIVE APPRENTICE SOMMELIER"

    XDDDD

    BUT WAIT more theories on Dento /sorry I don'treally have any other places to put them ;-;/

    I kind of view him sort of not really knowing what he wants to be, like many teenagers his age. He really likes being a Pokemon Sommelier, he finds it rewarding and fun. He also really likes being a Gym Leader as well, as seen by when he got mad at Skyla for not doing her job (and especially if say BW2 happened before (i know that makes no sense but w/e they could take creative liberties) it'd make a lot of sense why he views effort as everything, with starting from the "ground up" which is sort of like from roots to shoots nya~.
    But anyway I think he's sort of like a child with somethings, just wanting to reach out and grab everything that seems fun, or cool to him and puts the Sommelier tag onto everything just so it feels more coherent.
    Last edited by JennaJayfeather; 26th February 2013 at 6:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00poke_maniac View Post
    You know I was actually thinking about Pokemon Sommeliering /because of my favorite character derp/

    And I was thinking that actually it'd be less vague (and it's probably not vague at all) IF the anime was more focused on school instead of being focused on long journeys. :P I guess you could sort of say Dento would have to require data/or knowledge and then write a paper or take an exam at the end of the term and based on those scores or details his rank would be determined.

    Lately I've just been sort of viewing Dento journeying as being sort of like studying abroad. xD And it makes sense, especially given that Ash has a knack for bonding with his Pokemon with little problem.

    But it doesn't matter to me what they do. In all honesty I prefer no goal and just plain nonsense. :P
    Yeah, this really isn't like the final thing for Cilan or anything where he will become S class. He's just tagging along with Ash to get some new material.
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  13. #13

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    I feel sorry for Axew. He actually wants to evolve into a Haxorus. If he wasn't being wh*r*ed out via plushies, he'd be at least a Fraxure by now.
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    For being the best Water Pokemon Master, I believe you have to become someone like Wallace. You have to be in top class and you have to be able be one with your Pokemon like all the other ranks.

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    Any sort of goal that focuses on a specific type, I don't like. Alot of times it is used to include a character that could have otherwise been occupied by someone else.

    Also, Ash's Pokemon master goal is way too vague and is pretty much set up to where he never has to leave the series.

    I prefer goals to be reasonably obtainable and can be proven with actual steps to show that they are accomplishing something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Kitsune Yoko Kurama View Post
    For being the best Water Pokemon Master, I believe you have to become someone like Wallace. You have to be in top class and you have to be able be one with your Pokemon like all the other ranks.
    Yeah. I'd say it also involves doing well in tournaments like the Alto Mare Water Race, the Catch-A-Seaking Competition and the Whirl Cup, especially the Whirl Cup has a lot of prestige involved. Battling with Water Pokemon is probably most important, but some other skills like fishing and riding Water Pokemon matter too.

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    My thoughts?

    Done correctly, vague goals (for example, Pokemon Master) give a sense of mystery, however, when they're dragged on for so long, then the mystery factor kind of wears off and you just want it to be over with (ie: After 700+ episodes, we still don't know what a Pokemon Master is, nor do we really care, because Ash isn't much closer to his goal).

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    Ash's goal may be vague but look at it this way. This guy right here is 10 years old. 10. He doesn't need to do JACK with his life yet. I mean school would be nice but apparently that doesn't matter in the Pokemon world so he can just go on adventuring again and again. Someone calls him a loser? Man I wouldn't care, lezz just go to another country and get some moar friends.
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  19. #19

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    Actually, Ash's entire journey seems rather DARK.

    Imagine this: you wish to be the best. To do this, you go to several different regions, fight several battles, meet several friends and catch several Pokémon. But, no matter how many times you win, no matter how many Pokémon you have, you never achieve any major steps towards your goal. Then, upon going to a new world, you leave your Pokémon behind to catch new ones, forgetting them in the process. Then those friends you made? You'll forget them too, except for the girl who will appear once and then disappear of the face of the Earth. It's almost like your entire journey prior never happened, and was retconned out of existance. But one thing you won't forget are a trio of idiots who will always try to steal your prized plushie Pokémon and harrass you. They will even follow you halfway across the planet to do so. Then there's the new crime syndicate that's always there in every region you go to.

    In short, you're pursuing a single goal, but you never get any closer.

    And all the while, years pass, and yet you're stuck at the same age. Forever.

    Even when the original audience for the show is long dead, Ash will still try to become a master. And he will never even get close.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

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    Actually, it's not really dark. When you say it like that it seems like it is. But, it really isn't.

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    I guess it may not look so bad when it's YOU who goes through all those retcons and failures pursuing what is ultimately a fruitless goal. At least then you're not part of an audience getting pissed off at stupidity yet still watches for some reason.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

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    Both Iris and Cilan's goals have been disappointing because they're not actually being developed.

    Iris only has an Axew and a Dragonite. Her Axew has barely matured but it's picked up some good moves at random. It rarely battles though. Dragonite didn't listen to her when she first caught it and she never really made it obey her without help. She doesn't actively try to catch any more dragons. She lost to Drayden, but it was a step forward for her.

    Cilan's goal is totally undeveloped. He beat Burgundy and Pinot Noir. He does his evaluation time in battles and apparently everyone hates it. He's made no significant accomplishment or step to get S class.

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  23. #23
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    Well so far for the main cast we've had a few goals.

    -Open Goals-
    Ash : Pokémon Master
    Misty : Water Pokémon Master
    Brock : World's Best Pokémon Breeder *dropped goal*
    Iris : Dragon Master

    -Focused Goals-
    Ash : Pokémon Champion -Win a Regional Pokémon League- *accomplished by winning the Orange League*
    May : Top Coordinator -Win a Grand Festival-
    Max : Pokémon Trainer -Reach 10 years old and pick a starter pokémon-
    Dawn : Top Coordinator -Win a Grand Festival-
    Brock : Pokémon Doctor -Study and take exams and stuff-
    Cilan : S-Rank Pokémon Connoisseur -Gain knowledge and pass the S-Rank exam- *My thoughts based on seeing the organization being similar to a school system*
    Trip : Pokémon Champion - -Win a Regional Pokémon League-
    Cameron : Pokémon Champion -Win a Regional Pokémon League-

    * - Although Pokémon Champion could also refer to becoming the Top Trainer in a region like Lance, Wallace, Cynthia, and Alder instead of just winning the Pokemon League like the games. Although Pokémon Master may apply to be the "Champion" game-wise as well. It is vague.

    Overall I like a mix of the goals presented in the show. I hope that the next girl will have a more "realistic" goal by wanting to be a Pokémon Professor or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    what exactly constitutes understanding hearts of dragons? becasue she knew dragonite well enough.
    Well, even though it wasn't stated, it wouldn't be surprising. She a Champion after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    Iris only has an Axew and a Dragonite. Her Axew has barely matured but it's picked up some good moves at random. It rarely battles though. Dragonite didn't listen to her when she first caught it and she never really made it obey her without help. She doesn't actively try to catch any more dragons. She lost to Drayden, but it was a step forward for her.
    Being a Dragon Master is just having one Dragon though, there's no need for more than one. You can be a Dragon Master with a Deino, Dratini or anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Attaxx View Post
    I guess it may not look so bad when it's YOU who goes through all those retcons and failures pursuing what is ultimately a fruitless goal. At least then you're not part of an audience getting pissed off at stupidity yet still watches for some reason.
    That's more sad (as in pathetic sad, though could also be emotional sad) than dark.

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