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Thread: Movie 16 - ExtremeSpeed Genesect & The Awakening of Mewtwo - FIRST DETAILS

  1. #4776
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    I'm not sure on Mewtwo Number 2 I dislike how they contradict themselves but I don't blame them if they are trying to preserve the past Mewtwo

    But were the credits for the movie leaked cause on Bmgf it shows that all the rivals and Virgil showed up in the Ending credits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyichigo View Post
    Criticism is one thing, but most of the people here are just outright bitching. Or throwing temper tantrums like five-years-olds, apparently. Also, again, unless you've hopped a coupla weeks into the future and seen the movie and prologue, we don't know how much of a explanation Newtwo gets.
    Yes we do. None.

    If a character whose individuality was his entire point can be meaninglessly duplicated with no concern for continuity, why not do it to all the characters? Why not give Ash a slightly different Pikachu with a copied background every region? Why not replace Ash with a new Ash every region that has the same background with minor tweaks? What about when Cilan and Iris cameo in XY, why not make the cameos just similar characters with the same designs?

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    The battle in New Torque City between Mewtwo and Genesect looks amazing.

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    It wouldn't be strange to have the new team encounter legends of the mysterious Pokémon and collect some DNA like Team Rocket did with Mew, to just clone the Pokémon instead of trying to find it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    It wouldn't be strange to have the new team encounter legends of the mysterious Pokémon and collect some DNA like Team Rocket did with Mew, to just clone the Pokémon instead of trying to find it.
    Celebitwo, Jirachitwo, Manaphytwo, Shaymintwo, and Victinitwo confirmed

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    Coincidences happen, as unlikely as they may be. And after all, the anime is very well known for its sheer amount of incredible coincidences. Sure, universe-wise having two Mewtwo with same name and similar backstories is a very eerie coincidence, but so are some stories about real life twins. The following is a bit off-topic, but bear with me. I'm trying to make a point.

    Jim Lewis and Jim Springer were separated at birth, when they were put up for adoption in 1940. They met for the first time when they were thirty-nine. It turns out that the name Jim was actually given to each of them independently, by their respective adoptive parents—and that’s only the beginning of the uncanny parallel.

    Both men had married twice—first to women named Linda, and then to women named Betty. Both had childhood dogs named Toy. Their sons’ names were James Allen and James Alan. Both worked as sheriff’s deputies, drank the same beer, smoked the same cigarettes, and drove the same chevrolet. This story, unsurprisingly, is often used as evidence for telepathy.
    Doesn't that sound very similar to Mewtwos' story? And there are other cases like that.

    I understand that some people are still mad about this being a new Mewtwo, but can't you give it at least one chance before considering it a shameless rip-off? Who knows, maybe there is more that we still don't know about it yet.
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 5th July 2013 at 4:53 AM.
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    But those two Mewtwo weren't apart of the same egg that split in half. They're two totally different beings, cloned from the same species(probably not the same exact Pokémon). Mewtwo was an artificially created Pokémon in a top secret experiment, and killed its creators and destroyed the laboratory which left no trace of its creation or the experiment.

    Mewtwo also wiped everyone's memories besides Ash, Misty, Brock, and TRio. So how could they possibly be the exact same?

    My point is this is a totally different situation and I don't understand how its comparable to the twin story




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    Don't we just assume all evidence of Mewtwo's creation was destroyed? I mean I don't recall it ever being outright said.

    Edit: For all we know someone who was helping create Mewtwo leaked the details to someone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    But those two Mewtwo weren't apart of the same egg that split in half. They're two totally different beings, cloned from the same species(probably not the same exact Pokémon). Mewtwo was an artificially created Pokémon in a top secret experiment, and killed its creators and destroyed the laboratory which left no trace of its creation or the experiment.

    Mewtwo also wiped everyone's memories besides Ash, Misty, Brock, and TRio. So how could they possibly be the exact same?

    My point is this is a totally different situation and I don't understand how its comparable to the twin story
    What if they come from the DNA of the same Mew? It's still basically the same "egg" and said "egg" reacted in the same way of the other experiment. Probably Mew's DNA works in the same way under certain stimulus.

    Or maybe this Mewtwo is the clone of the original one, who managed to escape at some point and left the other partially unfinished (hence explaining the different voice, a la Pikachutwo).

    Or an assist of Dr. Fuji stole some parts of Mewtwo's DNA and genetic maps and fled before the laboratory was destroyed, so that he/she could recreate Mewtwo (probably for personal profit).

    We don't fully know Mewtwo-2's backstory. Probably the writers left it that way so that we can fill the blanks. We can't say for sure until we see the prologue and even then we may not know everything.
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 5th July 2013 at 5:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    What if they come from the DNA of the same Mew? It's still basically the same "egg" and said "egg" reacted in the same way of the other experiment. Probably Mew's DNA works in the same way under certain stimulus.

    Or maybe this Mewtwo is the clone of the original one, who managed to escape at some point and left the other partially unfinished (hence explaining the different voice).

    Or an assist of Dr. Fuji stole some parts of Mewtwo's DNA and fled before the laboratory was destroyed, so that he/she could recreate Mewtwo.

    We don't fully know Mewtwo-2's backstory. Probably the writers left it that way so that we can fill the blanks. We can't say for sure until we see the prologue and even then we may not know everything.
    I see two possible scenarios

    Scenario 1: Older documents on M1 Mewtwo weren't stolen.
    My thoughts: How could they possibly have the same outcome? Doing the same exact things with the same result? Pretty much impossible

    Scenario 2: A scientist in Dr Fuji's experiment stole documents and escaped.
    My thoughts: How? They weren't even sure the Mewtwo they made was a success until it awoke and destroyed everything. Then Giovanni comes in...maybe someone from there did something? Even then, EVERYONE'S memory was wiped. According to everyone in the world besides Ash, Misty, Brock, and TRio...this thing doesn't exist




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Scenario 2: A scientist in Dr Fuji's experiment stole documents and escaped.
    My thoughts: How? They weren't even sure the Mewtwo they made was a success until it awoke and destroyed everything. Then Giovanni comes in...maybe someone from there did something? Even then, EVERYONE'S memory was wiped. According to everyone in the world besides Ash, Misty, Brock, and TRio...this thing doesn't exist
    About this scenario... remember the origin of Mewtwo. Mewtwo was the most successful experiment and was strong enough to survive. Then there was the whole trauma thing with Ambertwo and the scientists had to wipe out his memory. Probably one of the scientists saw the potential of the clone and stole some DNA samples and the blueprints to sell it to someone else, way before Mewtwo went berserk with his creators. After all, who wouldn't pay millions for the strongest Pokemon in the world? And if that's related to XY and XY is related to genetics then probably the scientist found who could give him/her the means to reproduce Mewtwo in Kalos. In that way, the (real) producers can promote XY as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    What if they come from the DNA of the same Mew? It's still basically the same "egg" and said "egg" reacted in the same way of the other experiment. Probably Mew's DNA works in the same way under certain stimulus.
    That would suggest these scientists went to the same excavation site or at least in the same exact area of the Amazon and found the fossil of a Mew that has an eyelash missing. And even then, because it's implied there were other experiments, that should suggest that if they were able to have a clone the first time around, it wouldn't look like Mewtwo, it would look closer to Mew. Despite still being a Mew himself, the genes that created Mewtwo were spliced which resulted in his appearance. And who's not to say you can't splice it another way? There is more than one way to skin a cat, after all. They would really have to have the notes to clone an exact copy of Mewtwo.

    Sheesh, every time we try to fill in a plothole, we end up digging up another one. The writers really didn't think this one through apparently, because I think we have more plotholes than there were to start with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    About this scenario... remember the origin of Mewtwo. Mewtwo was the most successful experiment and was strong enough to survive. Then there was the whole trauma thing with Ambertwo and the scientists had to wipe out his memory. Probably one of the scientists saw the potential of the clone and stole some DNA samples and the blueprints to sell it to someone else, way before Mewtwo went berserk with his creators. After all, who wouldn't pay millions for the strongest Pokemon in the world? And if that's related to XY and XY is related to genetics then probably the scientist found who could give him/her the means to reproduce Mewtwo in Kalos. In that way, the (real) producers can promote XY as well.
    It's probable after an extreme stretch...which isn't even going to be explained. That's how I feel about the Newtwo situation. I feel there was no need to create another Mewtwo and not explain it(at least that's what happening so far in its prologue according to a few users).

    A new Mewtwo ingame is totally possible. Mr Fuji is alive and Giovanni still has his memory. I hope we get some kind of story with it, but if not I would feel the same way as the anime




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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Sheesh, every time we try to fill in a plothole, we end up digging up another one. The writers really didn't think this one through apparently, because I think we have more plotholes than there were to start with.
    Meh, probably they don't expect us to overanalyze whatever they do. After all, it's a children's show.

    Even then, whatever the in-universe reason of a second Mewtwo is, I have the feeling that it will be unsatisfying for most people or completely ignored.
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    Oh come on >_< the "children's show" card? That doesn't mean they can slack off or put less effort into everything




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Oh come on >_< the "children's show" card? That doesn't mean they can slack off or put less effort into everything
    Maybe it's cheaper that way. Why waste brain for something new if you can simply recycle something which is more than 10 years old?

    But really, I would have loved if that Mewtwo was shiny. Something that sets this Pokemon apart from the original Mewtwo. That wouldn't solve the plotholes, that's for sure, but at least people wouldn't have hopes of Mewtwo's returning. But... a green Mewtwo probably wouldn't sell as many tickets as a purple Mewtwo...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Meh, probably they don't expect us to overanalyze whatever they do. After all, it's a children's show.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Maybe it's cheaper that way. Why waste brain for something new if you can simply recycle something which is more than 10 years old?
    Then the writers are morons. Do they honestly not know about the periphery demographic? Children's shows may be made for children, but they should be smartly made while not keeping children in the dark. I know it's Pokémon, and there's always Nintendo logic involved, but still, even with Nintendo logic, actual thought is put into that logic. Movies and specials are no exception. I thought the Japanese treated their children better than we do here (in terms of maturity), but I guess not all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Maybe it's cheaper that way. Why waste brain for something new if you can simply recycle something which is more than 10 years old?

    But really, I would have loved if that Mewtwo was shiny. Something that sets this Pokemon apart from the original Mewtwo. That wouldn't solve the plotholes, that's for sure, but at least people wouldn't have hopes of Mewtwo's returning. But... a green Mewtwo probably wouldn't sell as many tickets as a purple Mewtwo...
    Then why improve its animation? Why have better animation in the movies? Most kids can barely tell the difference(well at least I was like that and most other kids I knew. Even my parents and other family members can barely tell with certain things like that)

    If fans of the anime can come up with better reasons for Mewtwo returning than the impossible Newtwo idea of the writers, how can it possibly be THAT hard?
    Last edited by TheFonz; 5th July 2013 at 5:53 AM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Then why improve its animation? Why have better animation in the movies? Most kids can barely tell the difference(well at least I was like that and most other kids I knew. Even my parents and other family members can barely tell with certain things like that)
    Animated movies generally always (though not always) have better animation because they typically are released theatrically, and frame rates and scanning method of those frames are also slightly different from television. But that's really not the issue here, so I don't know why animation was brought up when the animation is gorgeous--the only universal plus-side about the movie thus far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Animated movies generally always (though not always) have better animation because they typically are released theatrically, and frame rates and scanning method of those frames are also slightly different from television. But that's really not the issue here, so I don't know why animation was brought up when the animation is gorgeous--the only universal plus-side about the movie thus far.
    That's my point. The animation is gorgeous.

    Why is it gorgeous if Cresselia92's scenario of the writers being cheap is true? They certainly skimp on the animation budget in the tv series. But why put the effort into the animation so it looks amazing instead of medicore to save money?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Then the writers are morons. Do they honestly not know about the periphery demographic? Children's shows may be made for children, but they should be smartly made while not keeping children in the dark. I know it's Pokémon, and there's always Nintendo logic involved, but still, even with Nintendo logic, actual thought is put into that logic. Movies and specials are no exception. I thought the Japanese treated their children better than we do here (in terms of maturity), but I guess not all the time.
    Eh, what can I say? They probably found more convenient creating a new Mewtwo, as retarded as that idea may be.

    But I have to agree. Kids are quite smart and shouldn't be underestimated. Unfortunately, that's what they have been doing in the most recent times.

    I'm not going to judge yet, but the Original Mewtwo vs. Genesect scenario had way more potential than what we got.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    That's my point. The animation is gorgeous.

    Why is it gorgeous if Cresselia92's of the writers being cheap is true? They certainly skimp on the animation budget in the tv series. But why put the effort into the animation so it looks amazing instead of medicore?
    You can have the most beautifully animated movie in the world and still have a crappy story, even with a good-sized budget. Animation is much more expensive than screenwriting and casting voices combined. It's also apparent animation for the anime series itself nowadays is much more great compared to when it first aired, and also because everything's gone digital and you can do more fancy things with computers than on cels. Also the budget is greater because of how marketable it is, and how much money they get from it.

    The cheapness of the writers comes in because they're apparently too lazy to take the time to write out the script and overlook it for any big-sized plotholes. It's all about the money, that was most likely on their minds the whole time. Yes, I understand there was a set time on it due to their budget, but that still doesn't give them an excuse to use cheap cop-outs and hand waves when writing it. If it's a 90-minute film, that's about 90 pages in the script, that's plenty enough to write a good story with little to no plotholes.

    Or they really are bad writers, it's either of the two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post

    But I have to agree. Kids are quite smart and shouldn't be underestimated. Unfortunately, that's what they have been doing in the most recent times.

    I'm not going to judge yet, but the Original Mewtwo vs. Genesect scenario had way more potential than what we got.
    I think no matter what differences we Pokémon fans have, we can all pretty much agree the anime has extremely changed in Gen V/BW. They had advertisement in it before, but not like how it is now.

    They could have made the entire filler saga about TR VS TP and it ends with Mewtwo stopping TP's plans with Genesect




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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    I understand that some people are still mad about this being a new Mewtwo, but can't you give it at least one chance before considering it a shameless rip-off? Who knows, maybe there is more that we still don't know about it yet.
    No, because we already know it's a shameless ripoff. What has been presented is not anything any one of us came up with, it's the facts of what was in the movie. Because of nanamaru's Tweets we know Mewtwo Q's origin is not explained in any way as would be necessary, and the previews of the Prologue special do not suggest any logic is going to be given to this there either. A shameless ripoff is exactly what it is.

    If there being a second Mewtwo is acceptable, then you will find it very difficult to say having multiples of any character is unacceptable. After all, as your twin story tells, it could just be coincidence, right?

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    It kinda sounds like some of you are judging this movie like you've already seen it and its prologue. Yes it sucks that there is a new mewtwo. Yes we don't have an explanation. But can't we all just wait a week and a half to get a summary of the movie and see the prologue?
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