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Thread: Movie 16 - ExtremeSpeed Genesect & The Awakening of Mewtwo - FIRST DETAILS

  1. #5026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Watching Virgil get his face dirty was more interesting? The first half of the prologue lacked action and just focused on the characters getting to know each other.
    That makes perfect sense. We had to know the characters a little bit. I think that the pace was good for the time given for that.

    The movie will be even more action-driven and will focus on the Genesect, as well. Nanamaru, who is reliable, has already told us that nothing was revealed, so you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. The manga adaptation also indicates this.
    I'm one of the few people that doesn't give much importance to that. If we won't get anything we can still fill the blanks by ourselves.
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  2. #5027

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    Of course the first half of a 20 minute special will lack action.

    There can't be action 24/7, and there definitely can't be any good action without a good setup. The introductions and such were fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    That makes perfect sense. We had to know the characters a little bit. I think that the pace was good for the time given for that.
    I'd rather know more about Mewtwo, who is the only character that will have any bearing on the movie.

    There can't be action 24/7, and there definitely can't be any good action without a good setup. The introductions and such were fine.
    A proper backstory for Mewtwo wouldn't have been a good setup?

  4. #5029

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    A proper backstory for Mewtwo wouldn't have been a good setup?
    You're changing the subject though.

    You were seemingly complaining about the lack of action in the first half of the prologue (correct? or am I misunderstanding in which case I apologise) - i'm simply saying that from what we've been given and what has happened in the prologue that it was a good set up for the characters before everything hit the fan and Mewtwo was attacked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    I'd rather know more about Mewtwo, who is the only character that will have any bearing on the movie.


    A proper backstory for Mewtwo wouldn't have been a good setup?
    So thje movie is about the Genesect but only Mewtwo matters? sure.

  6. #5031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge View Post
    So thje movie is about the Genesect but only Mewtwo matters? sure.
    Obviously I was referring to the characters in the prologue...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    You're changing the subject though.

    You were seemingly complaining about the lack of action in the first half of the prologue (correct? or am I misunderstanding in which case I apologise) - i'm simply saying that from what we've been given and what has happened in the prologue that it was a good set up for the characters before everything hit the fan and Mewtwo was attacked.
    I don't mind the lack of action at all; I would have preferred a story-driven prologue like the Birth of Mewtwo. Cresselia was arguing that the action took priority, and I challenged that notion by referring to the first half of the prologue.
    Last edited by Kein; 11th July 2013 at 6:48 PM.

  7. #5032

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    I don't mind the lack of action at all; I would have preferred a story-driven prologue like the Birth of Mewtwo.
    I'd have preferred a more story driven plot too, one that didn't keep referring to flashbacks - and on top of that actually had flashbacks worthwhile (the only good one was the hiker, girl and stoutland being saved by Mewtwo, the other about Mewtwo's creation was terrible) - however it still did explain a bit and it did show how this new Mewtwo feels about life, people, pokemon etc.

    Cresselia was arguing that the action took priority, and I challenged that notion by referring to the first half of the prologue.
    Ah I see.

  8. #5033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    I don't mind the lack of action at all; I would have preferred a story-driven prologue like the Birth of Mewtwo. Cresselia was arguing that the action took priority, and I challenged that notion by referring to the first half of the prologue.
    You'd better reread what I wrote.

    Dedicating 22 or so minutes only to explain whatever backstory Mewtwo had without some action would have been quite boring for kids, imo. It was just a setup, now there is the true action.
    I didn't say to not dedicate some minutes to explain Mewtwo's backstory. Just that having 22 minutes only about said story would have been boring for kids. Overall I found the prologue quite dynamic. Not perfect, but good enough for me.
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  9. #5034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    I didn't say to not dedicate some minutes to explain Mewtwo's backstory. Just that having 22 minutes only about said story would have been boring for kids. Overall I found the prologue quite dynamic. Not perfect, but good enough for me.
    No one here expected the backstory part to fill up 22 minutes. 5-10 minutes would have sufficed, but we barely got anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Doesn't matter. Let the shipping commence.

    Kid.

    *shifty eyes*

    Anyhoo, so this is what I've gathered from the last two pages.

    The prologue really was a waste of time as it's basically a rehash of both the first movie and Mewtwo Returns (though I don't know if Danku's a generic villain or was actually cool, but since no one's brought him up, I guess he was a poorly-written character). Was I right in that Virgil was useless, or did he actually do something?

    Mewtwo Q is shown to be able to stop time in the trailer, but it most likely was never seen in the prologue (again, no one's said anything) and thus Mewtwo Q got a god-like power out of its ass because of bad writing.

    The only "redeeming" factor of the movie is the pretty animation.

    Douse Genesect is the token cute character because apparently Sableye was too weak to be the token cute character.

    ...

    I'm a story-driven person. I don't want just action, I want plot, character, atmosphere. Perhaps the atmosphere will be given since people say New Tork City has the New York feel to it. But if characters are going to fall flat, and the plot is going to be pushed aside for fight scenes between Mewtwo Q and the Genesect, then I don't know if I'll be able to make myself enjoy this movie. We've been disappointed and let down over and over again the past few months, and so I'm most likely not going to be surprised if it turns out the movie is basically Destiny Deoxys with Mewtwo Q.

    So if I'm ever going to watch the movie or even the prologue, I'm having the volume muted if only because the voice of Mewtwo Q still rubs me the wrong way, and I want to try to pretend it's the real Mewtwo. I'll probably look for the English subs when they are available online so I can at least get what's going on while I drink in the pretty animation, but unless the dub does something that makes the movie a bit more redeemable, I'll most likely avoid the dub altogether.

    So... the only thing that's keeping me from running away screaming is the pretty animation. Not really a good sign, frankly.
    The only wrongly done part here was Mewtwo being Newtwo and improper backstory setup for Newtwo. Could you please look at the "movie's plot" and the Genesect side of things? It's being done extremely well.

    So just Mewtwo ruins EVERYTHING? Surely, the movie itself has a story line right? Genesect has its own plot right? Why should we act as if Mewtwo is the only thing that matters to the movie?

    Newtwo's backstory being vague could be perhaps of this reason: That Newtwo's story is no different from Mewtwo's story line and any further explanations could be a spoiler for XY Games. But even so, yes it's bad that Mewtwo's backstory was vague, but I can see it that it was being vague for the purpose of being vague.

    There is plot, character, emotion AND action in this movie from what i see in the trailer. Newtwo maybe a cheap ripoff, but it still won't change it's role and character in this movie. What makes you say the characters are flat?

    You are obviously having a biased opinion on this movie because of Newtwo.

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  11. #5036

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    You know it's funny.

    When Mewtwo was announced to appear in Movie 16 and battle none other than Genesect, I felt my dream had been completed. I felt if I watched the Movie I could stop watching and feel satisfied about everything.

    However that was too good to be true.

    Now that there are two Mewtwo, I feel like I need to see both of them meet/battle/settle things/understand one another etc. before I can stop watching the anime in peace.

    Damn you writers, damn you.

  12. #5037
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    So far I don't see a strong reason to be impressed with Genesect's characterization, either. Why is the Red Genesect so dogmatic compared to the other Genesect? Why does it refuse to accept help from Mewtwo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    So far I don't see a strong reason to be impressed with Genesect's characterization, either. Why is the Red Genesect so dogmatic compared to the other Genesect? Why does it refuse to accept help from Mewtwo?
    Watching the movie itself might give us the explanation. At least the Douse Genesect part in the trailers have impressed me deeply.

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  14. #5039

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    I'm quite liking it.

    We have signs of a flashback to it's creation by Team Plasma - we know that it is the most evil (probably one of the most villainous in the entire anime) and it's shiny. It's extremely unique so as long as it's explained as to why it is more stronger/faster/shiny etc. i'm happy to assume that it's simply more evil for X reason because Team Plasma made it so.

  15. #5040

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    The only wrongly done part here was Mewtwo being Newtwo and improper backstory setup for Newtwo. Could you please look at the "movie's plot" and the Genesect side of things? It's being done extremely well.

    So just Mewtwo ruins EVERYTHING? Surely, the movie itself has a story line right? Genesect has its own plot right? Why should we act as if Mewtwo is the only thing that matters to the movie?

    Newtwo's backstory being vague could be perhaps of this reason: That Newtwo's story is no different from Mewtwo's story line and any further explanations could be a spoiler for XY Games. But even so, yes it's bad that Mewtwo's backstory was vague, but I can see it that it was being vague for the purpose of being vague.

    There is plot, character, emotion AND action in this movie from what i see in the trailer. Newtwo maybe a cheap ripoff, but it still won't change it's role and character in this movie. What makes you say the characters are flat?

    You are obviously having a biased opinion on this movie because of Newtwo.
    You don't seem to understand the significance of why we don't like Newtwo.

    When we first learned Mewtwo was going to be in it, we thought it would be THE Mewtwo. Why wouldn't we? It was previously established as being one of a kind, so naturally we thought it would be him.

    And so when we learned it was NOT him, the hype backlash hit. The movie seems less impressive now because what we THOUGHT would be a fan-favorite duking it out with cool Pokémon with some pretty good plot is now turning out to be a lame COPY of a fan-favourite duking it out with cool Pokémon that are likely less cool now with almost no plot at all.

    The fact that we don't even get a detailed explanation for WHY and HOW Newtwo exists iis the icing on the cake.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

  16. #5041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    No one here expected the backstory part to fill up 22 minutes. 5-10 minutes would have sufficed, but we barely got anything.
    Maybe it's because we saw things from the "wrong" points of view: we got two characters that barely saw Mewtwo, a hunter that only knows some few details about Mewtwo's creation and only knows that he had to go after it, Virgil who started learning things about Mewtwo and Mewtwo itself who probably doesn't know all the details about its own creation.

    Probably they didn't want to spoil everything, probably not. But I think that at the end of the day what really matters is the interaction between Mewtwo and Genesect, not their origins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Attaxx View Post
    You don't seem to understand the significance of why we don't like Newtwo.

    When we first learned Mewtwo was going to be in it, we thought it would be THE Mewtwo. Why wouldn't we? It was previously established as being one of a kind, so naturally we thought it would be him.

    And so when we learned it was NOT him, the hype backlash hit. The movie seems less impressive now because what we THOUGHT would be a fan-favorite duking it out with cool Pokémon with some pretty good plot is now turning out to be a lame COPY of a fan-favourite duking it out with cool Pokémon that are likely less cool now with almost no plot at all.

    The fact that we don't even get a detailed explanation for WHY and HOW Newtwo exists iis the icing on the cake.
    I get it, man. I was heavily disappointed when I watched today's prologue too. But how can we say the whole movie is bad just because of one (albeit important) aspect. I am agreeing that the movie would have been 10 times awesome if Mr. Ichimura would have come and voiced Mewtwo and those action scenes and what not. I understand all those sentiments, but calling the whole movie bad, and calling the characters flat when we don't know ANYTHING and the trailers showing some positive signs isn't a good thing to do.

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  18. #5043
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    Wait,does anybody have like a video of the prologue? Or are you guys just going off the pics on the first page? Also, tomorrow, will there be a way to watch the movie? Like, is there gonna be a stream od it somewhere?

  19. #5044

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Sylveon_ View Post
    Wait,does anybody have like a video of the prologue? Or are you guys just going off the pics on the first page? Also, tomorrow, will there be a way to watch the movie? Like, is there gonna be a stream od it somewhere?
    There is a video which I found, however i'm unable to tell you where I found it. Have a search it's around dude.

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  20. #5045

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    I get it, man. I was heavily disappointed when I watched today's prologue too. But how can we say the whole movie is bad just because of one (albeit important) aspect. I am agreeing that the movie would have been 10 times awesome if Mr. Ichimura would have come and voiced Mewtwo and those action scenes and what not. I understand all those sentiments, but calling the whole movie bad, and calling the characters flat when we don't know ANYTHING and the trailers showing some positive signs isn't a good thing to do.
    Getting the old seiyuu wouldn't fix much - it'd still be a shadow of the real Mewtwo.

    And it's not JUST Newtwo that's problematic - it's that the plot isn't very complex and boils down to "Mewtwo and Genesect fight THE END" and seems to be a glorified Destiny Deoxys with characters, names and locations changed.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

  21. #5046
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Sylveon_ View Post
    Wait,does anybody have like a video of the prologue? Or are you guys just going off the pics on the first page? Also, tomorrow, will there be a way to watch the movie? Like, is there gonna be a stream od it somewhere?
    We(or atleast I) watched the prologue will it aired. Not sure if I can go onto the specifics on here. The movie is airing in theatres on 13th, so there won't be any streams, although it's kinda break rules to talk about streams in the first place :x

    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Attaxx View Post
    Getting the old seiyuu wouldn't fix much - it'd still be a shadow of the real Mewtwo.

    And it's not JUST Newtwo that's problematic - it's that the plot isn't very complex and boils down to "Mewtwo and Genesect fight THE END" and seems to be a glorified Destiny Deoxys with characters, names and locations changed.
    No no, when I say Mr. Ichimura to voice, I also mean it's the Old Mewtwo.

    Well if you boil it down, every movie has the simplest of the simplest plots. Every movie is basically a rehash of the other 14. "Legendary Pokemon comes, Ash and Co. saves....villain comes, legendary Pokemon saves Ash and Co. Bye bye.

    I am talking about the fine aspects we saw in the trailer like Ash comforting Douse and a simple pat calling the other Genesect and attacking Ash and what not. Besides, I am not sure what else did you actually expect other than Mewtwo fought Genesect, story end. That was the movie's obvious plot even if it's the old Mewtwo or New Mewtwo. The new-ness of Mewtwo didn't change anything in that regard.
    Last edited by Alfred the Second; 11th July 2013 at 7:27 PM.

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  22. #5047

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    From what we can see, there's very little subplots. Aside from maybe the whole hive thing, but that doesn't seem to matter much, and Team Rocket go back to their ways of doing f*ck all.

    It seems it's going to be Mewtwo vs. Genesect and nothing else. It looks like there's a beginning, an end, but little in the middle.

    When most of the movie can be summed up in a short sentence, that's probably not a good sign.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

  23. #5048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Besides, I am not sure what else did you actually expect other than Mewtwo fought Genesect, story end. That was the movie's obvious plot even if it's the old Mewtwo or New Mewtwo. The new-ness of Mewtwo didn't change anything in that regard.
    The detour to space had a potential to change that, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. That aspect isn't even being hyped up in the trailers.

  24. #5049

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    The movie storyline looks great, it looks simple but has enough in it to sustain everything and execute it well.

    I genuinely think the storyline will play out like this, I can't wait.

    -Ash and co. arrive at NTC.
    -Ash meets Douse Genesect.
    -Red Genesect attacks, then controls Douse Genesect to also attack. Mewtwo saves the day, the Genesect all flee.
    -Dialogue/Conversations with the ranger like character, possibly Mewtwo as well. Explanations are given such as Mewtwo sympathizing with the Genesect and explaining they want to return to their old home which has been built around.
    -Genesect begin attacking the city, Mewtwo tries to stop them.
    -Battle commences, Mewtwo changes form. Mewtwo gets the upper hand.
    -Something happens, and the four Genesect stop attacking, only Red Genesect keeps fighting.
    -Red Genesect attacks but Ash tries to stop it (Douse Genesect is seriously injured after protecting Ash).
    -Mewtwo battles Red Genesect, eventually takes it to the sky - it has a revelation and stops.
    -The Genesect either decide to reside at the new/old home of theirs, or they all leave travelling somewhere else.
    -Mewtwo either decides to stay at the city or begins to travel as well.
    -Ash and Co. head off.

  25. #5050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    The detour to space had a potential to change that, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. That aspect isn't even being hyped up in the trailers.
    The detour to space? I am curious, what exactly do you mean by that and how does it change to the fact that when boiled down the plot of this movie is nothing but Mewtwo vs. Genesect fight, the end.


    @Haunter: The trailer indicates that Red Genesect is being taken by Mewtwo into the space. That cud be the end

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