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Thread: Movie 16 - ExtremeSpeed Genesect & The Awakening of Mewtwo - FIRST DETAILS

  1. #5351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    And they are airing the first movie in the television along side this movie?? If I were a professional writer, and I am creating a huge plot hole that could make people raise an eyebrow at me, then I would at least be smart enough to not air the first movie and make people remember that glaringly huge hole.

    Now I am stumped, and unable to find a reason to support the writers in this. Trust me, I am usually the last one to insult the writers and do it only when everyone else is doing. I am trying to justify this, and I am happy if anyone does it for me.


    Regardless, I will still enjoy this movie for the simple plot and great action. I will still watch it and enjoy despite these things. Why you ask? Because I am supposed to enjoy this show, not make paragraphs of rant everyday. It's like eating distasteful food in your college cafeteria. I try complaining but if I am unable to do anything, in the end I will ignore the bad parts of it and try searching for the good parts. But that's just me:3
    See up above on what I had to say about it. I've explained it to myself enough to satisfy it for my own purposes, (If I was Ash and the Alternate forme was the one I saved the first time, but in original forme the second and then it spoke to me in a female voice, I would be saying, "WHAT are you?" too because the Mewtwo I knew from before couldn't switch around, so this might be a different creature entirely. The others just don't know who she is. The rest to me is simply because it does seem logical that the story writers decided not to confuse younger viewers with references to a very old work. Still, they could not have handled it all more stupidly. You don't air all previous works with Anime Mewtwo and then go and totally retcon him out of existence with one sentence. You don't do that to one of THE most recognizable faces in the franchise. Until and unless the producers outright state that the first Mewtwo is no more, it isn't something I personally accept.

  2. #5352
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    For the record, Ash could not have noticed the Forme when she defended them, since she was moving so quickly so as to slow down time (watch the latest trailer). For that matter, he had not heard her voice before he asked her what she was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Now I am stumped, and unable to find a reason to support the writers in this. Trust me, I am usually the last one to insult the writers and do it only when everyone else is doing. I am trying to justify this, and I am happy if anyone does it for me.
    There is no good explanation for this. The "reason" might be personal more than anything; suffice to say that the "Yuyama didn't want to disrespect Shudo's work" theory doesn't hold anymore.
    Last edited by Kein; 13th July 2013 at 10:22 PM.

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    All we needed was Ash to say "A Mewtwo!". This avoids major references to Movie 1 + Mewtwo Returns like the writers seemingly wanted to do. Just a small little nod that the writers aren't completely messing with us and do appreciate the fans and canon of the show.

    It is inexcusable to defend Ash not recognizing Mewtwo regardless of being written for newer audiences.

    The anime itself can get away with Ash not always recognizing Pokemon, but Mewtwo's importance to the show made it a key for this movie - albeit even a minor reference as stated above would have been fine. It was made apparent in Movie 1 + Mewtwo Returns that Mewtwo was one of a kind, and that Ash would always remember him, only to suddenly forget now.

    The ironic part is that Ash rarely if ever seems to actually forget a Pokemon by re-asking "What are you?" but only tends to re-scan the Pokemon. This was one of the most important times where it was necessary he should recognize/acknowledge the species of Pokemon and he completely forgets.

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    Maybe Ash realized this wasn't the Mewtwo that he used to know?

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    Or... they could have kept Mewtwo in her other forme when she saved the gang and then Ash asks to her what she is, before she changes back and answer to him. That could have worked as well.
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    Say what you will. As far as I'm concerned I'm not letting a few seconds of animated idiocy ruin it or continuity for me. A lot of people are angry about that scene, me included, and now I'd like to hear what the writers themselves have to say about the issue after airing Mewtwo this and Mewtwo that in the time leading up to the movie's launch just to make Ash act stupid for a few seconds. (And I haven't seen that scene with her Alternate Form that appeared with him in it first.)

    Inexcusable is not inexcusable when I'm trying to figure out what the hell's going on and maybe make it sound logical to myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    I was half-sarcastic pal!
    Oops. I guess my sarcasm detector is broken.

    Ignoring the rest of the Mewtwo stuff for one second: Does anyone know if the King did anything important in this movie? Or was he just bunched up with the other Pokemon? Heck, did he even appear at all? I wish we had pictures of the movie. :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Ken View Post
    Maybe Ash realized this wasn't the Mewtwo that he used to know?
    You see, what has raised ire all over the place is because he asks her "WHAT are you?" instead of "WHO are you?" As if he'd forgotten!

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    You know, if people are so bent out of shape for 'ruining' Mewtwo's image ('m not fond of this Newtwo either, tbh), then the US Pokemon dub could pull a 4Kids and make changes to the movie. They could make it to where movie 16 Mewtwo is the same from the 1st movie and Mewtwo Returns, and give it a male voice to help with it. They could change some scripting to justify it being the same Pokemon...but then...based on what I've read on this site, that would probably cause problems with the story plot, wouldn't it? I don't know, I'm just throwing out my two-cents here.

  10. #5360

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    They don't do that thing anymore.

    We got a Newtwo in Japan, and we'll get a Newtwo in English.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

  11. #5361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    After reading the summary I stand by my first opinion. It's sounds a bit better then I expected (particularly elements with the DD Genesect) but still I think there were a lot of missed opportunities (even ignoring the Mewtwo thing).

    Having said that, I'll admit there are some elements here that maybe watching would make me appreciate them more (or understand them more at least) but I'm not a fan of the anime so... *shrugs*


    I kind of agree with that, the story does seem like they pointlessly avoided him. Not to say that Newtwo's bad it's just that nothing happens in this movie that I honestly don't think original Mewtwo couldn't have handled in a relatively similar manner, and of course the whole bringing the arc full circle thing. Really, my thing is that they don't really acknowledge continuity here and even though it's the anime they did promote the older Mewtwo so it's disappointing that they didn't address it at all.

    I'm ambivalent on the form, I can see this as a good opportunity to expand on the Mewtwo/Mew story so for that I'm giving a benefit of a doubt. The anime, it barely explains anything related to the games and really makes its own rules sometimes (such as Kyurem switching between forms without Reshiram/Zekrom) so admittedly I wasn't expecting much there but hopefully the games do give us that storyline.

    No clue, I'm just making a guess. :P

    I'd believe that maybe it'd work like either Attack Deoxys or Speed Deoxys and thus either be a fast hitting glass cannon or a strong setup Pokémon.
    well like, The plot of this movie appears to mirror the first one in many ways- so in that respect, I don't understand why they didn't make that step of developing the character of the Original Mewtwo rather than almost [seemingly] negating his existance =S That is the thing about the anime that really turns me off these days; is how hey adress continuity- here they have this main character, who after all his experience, has made seemingly NO development in overall skill/ability, perception etc. well between regions- he grows within a series and then just drops it all come the next one. If they want us to experience each region afresh- why not just build in a NEW protagonist who is actually a beginning trainer?! Like, why not shift the focus onto a character such as May as the MAIN character rather than a periphery? [I know she got good screen time and character development, along with Dawn- but they still weren't Ash if you get what I mean]. Ash's braindamaged ways are just too irritating to watch anymore, hence why I have basically abandoned the anime.

    Back to the forme- I think the snub of the original Mewtwo was just silly tbh- here they had a perfectly good opportunity to further develop a character that has already had 2 films and some anime specials featuring their journey towards purpose? So why open up a new, unexplained, non-sensical barrel of misunderstood-monster? That damn forme I hate formes! GRRR! If it was simply because giving old Mewtwo a form would have been too big a plot hole then that is RIDICULOUS- considering how big a discrepency they have now opened up towards the whole continuity of the anime/Ash/Team Rocket- WTF?! This is why I dislike the anime- it has no integrity on it's own- it's all a big marketing circus for young children rather than having any respect for long time fans.

    I SWEAR there better be a GOOD reason in the games why that THING is in the games, it is killing my X & Y fanboner so badly =| and if it is just FASTER than I don't even know anymore ¬_¬ what next? Speedspeed form for Deoxys speed form? BAH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Attaxx View Post
    They don't do that thing anymore.

    We got a Newtwo in Japan, and we'll get a Newtwo in English.
    I know, and I'm not getting my hopes up for an edit. I'm just saying they could edit the movie if they truly wanted to. It would be nice if they did, but I'll understand if they won't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platina2000 View Post
    I know, and I'm not getting my hopes up for an edit. I'm just saying they could edit the movie if they truly wanted to. It would be nice if they did, but I'll understand if they won't.
    Isn't writing a fanfiction an easier option? :3 Not much difference there. Fans requesting something, the English Dub changing it = Fanfiction. //Which I am writing :3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeoViolet View Post
    You see, what has raised ire all over the place is because he asks her "WHAT are you?" instead of "WHO are you?" As if he'd forgotten!
    Most likely it's a line that can be translated both ways. Japanese and English are very different languages.

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    Breaking News!
    Riboxys, the evolution of Deoxys announced!
    See the powerful Psychic type get even stronger! 220 base attack! 220 base special attack! Where does it end!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    Oops. I guess my sarcasm detector is broken.

    Ignoring the rest of the Mewtwo stuff for one second: Does anyone know if the King did anything important in this movie? Or was he just bunched up with the other Pokemon? Heck, did he even appear at all? I wish we had pictures of the movie. :x
    I think he appeared why wouldn't he. xD Though I doubt anyone but Axew and Pikachu got anything more then a quick lunch scene. Scenes feel ridiculous when we know they have more Pokemon on hand but just choose not to use them.

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    I said earlier that it would be a good thing for this Mewtwo to be female anyways considering the scene in space. XD XD XD (Do they seriously hold hands as they watch that sunrise?)

    Bottom line...no. A few seconds of animated stupidity have not convinced me of total retcon. I don't know for sure what the hell's going on but yeah. I just wish that if it had been the case after they shoved all old Mewtwo movies/episodes/etc into Japan's faces right before the movie, well, does that sound like something you do to someone you make disappear from existence? I doubt it. There's got to be some story here. I wonder what kind of discussions went on behind closed doors with those producers.

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    I rather the dub kept it as it is, I can not see the new Mewtwo as in any other way now anyway.

    So.. If the new Mewtwo is the only Mewtwo, does that mean the first Mewtwo is retconned out of continuity or am I missing something?

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    At this point, I think everything is the way it is because Yuyama thought it would be better that way.

    I'm not even joking. I wouldn't be surprised if he said that verbatim.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

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    Old Mewtwo hasn't been confirmed to have been retconned out. There are other possibilities, and they all have no support. As far as I can tell right now, the possibilities are that 1) old Mewtwo is retconned out, 2) just Returns is retconned out, 3) Ash forgot what Mewtwo is just for this but old mewtwo exists anyway, 4) Ash meant to ask "who" the new Mewtwo is, or 5) this movie is not canon.

    2, 3 and 4 are most likely imo because 1 requires more assumptions and 5 would require an arbitrary cut of this movie when it clearly ties into anime canon.
    Last edited by Mewter; 13th July 2013 at 10:40 PM.

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    By the way Serebii'ers, what is the chance of Ikimonogakari's ending song be translated into english and then other countries.

    Why do they always need to create their own songs D:<
    Except Make a Wish which was partially translated.

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    Well... what can I say?

    When I was starting to accept the fact that another Mewtwo exists... this happens. Really, there is no excuse for what they've done. This movie shouldn't have happened at all. They've ruined Mewtwo. And I'm sad to say that, because I really had hopes for this movie.

    Ash should have recognized Mewtwo in one way or another. Saying "Mewtwo!" like in the preview, saying "A Mewtwo!" like Haunter proposed or in any other way. But Ash not recognizing it... is just, and idiocy act. The worst writting ever.
    It's like if Ash suddenly forgets who Gary is. Its stupid.

    Ignoring continuity like this, creating plot-holes like this without even trying to give an explanation... is despicable. And people like Taidow trying to justify this are even more despicable. For their own dignity and intelligence as fans.

    Now, I'm hoping the dub will correct this HUGE mistake and change the dialogues in that scene, making Ash recognize Mewtwo. Hell, if they did it with Misty so we could think she loved Ash, then why not do it now? Please, do it.
    Dub people, you can SAVE the fans from this movie. Just make Ash recognize Mewtwo and Mewtwo say: "I don't know you"... and the next thing Ash says being "So you are not who I think you were..." Or something along those lines, then continue the story as the original.

    If they've corrected Pidgeotto's color change in Charizard's return episode, then they HAVE to correct this.

    If not, I'll just see this movie as a NON-CANON thing. I'll just assume this movie is out of the official canon of the previous movies and anime.

    Because the first movie had connections with the anime, so if we (like Charmed said) assume that old Mewtwo doesn't exist and take this movie as canon instead of the first one, then we should ignore what happened in the episode Ash got his 8th Kanto gym badge, and the episodes around that involving Mewtwo.

    So, really, it's easier to ignore this movie and put it out of the official canon.

    Oh, and by the way, they didn't explain at all why this Mewtwo has a new forme. So really, this movie is the EPITOME OF BAD WRITTING.
    Last edited by Lucas MV; 13th July 2013 at 10:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mewter View Post
    Breaking News!
    Riboxys, the evolution of Deoxys announced!
    See the powerful Psychic type get even stronger! 220 base attack! 220 base special attack! Where does it end!?
    Wouldn't put it past them lol :P

    This form doesn't even look differently typed or anything? It is so pointless! It will probably just be really unbalanced with like 255 speed and then cr@p defenses so it isn't even usable! GRR FORMES! GRRR!

    HOW have they seen this as legitimate? Considering as other people have mentioned- they have been reshowing Mewtwo centric episodes etc.? Yet it isn't the same character? It makes no sense!
    Last edited by storm12; 13th July 2013 at 10:47 PM.
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    Once the producers confirm it themselves, only then will I accept it.

    I was browsing other websites and I came across a suggestion that the old Mewtwo could learn how to transform into the "other" Mewtwo forme. I was puzzled then I suddenly remembered some months ago...uh, wasn't that fanart that depicted different Mewtwo formes for X and Y? I thought it was just that, some silly fanart. Isn't it?

    Either way, the suggestion is stupid, but again....I'm still glad this one is female. But I won't accept the first Mewtwo being retconned out of existence until they say it outright.

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    Oh yeah, I also forgot to ask; does the new Mewtwo have a gender like is it actually a girl or something? I know the first Mewtwo didn't but with voice swap and all or am I getting it mixed up with the Douse Drive Genesect being a girl..

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