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Thread: Community POTW #79

  1. #76
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    I am not much of a good user of a damage calculator but how much damage does Keldeo with a Modest Nature with 252 sp EVs with Choice Specs Hidden Power Ghost do to 252 Hp 252 S(def) Jellicent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    I am not much of a good user of a damage calculator but how much damage does Keldeo with a Modest Nature with 252 sp EVs with Choice Specs Hidden Power Ghost do to 252 Hp 252 S(def) Jellicent?
    It does 45-53% Modest and 41-48% Timid. Jellicent is a good wall for Keldeo.
    Last edited by grantholomew; 5th July 2012 at 6:11 PM.

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by grantholomew View Post
    It does 45-53% Modest and 41-48% Timid. Jellicent is a good wall for Keldeo.
    So Keldeo still looks like it has a chance to 2KO if rocks are up though I don't see that Jellicent can do much to Keldeo back. Maybe Choice Specs Shadow Ball or Energy Ball?
    Last edited by Dragalge; 5th July 2012 at 6:29 PM.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    Why burn something by 30% chance while you can KO something by 80 chance?
    I think you are missing the humorous part of it. It's a WATER move that can set things on FIRE! It's the new body slam, man. And that move, (body slam) we almost always mention. Snorlax, Politoed, Quasquire(sp, I know), and more. Check all of the fourth gen potws, about one-third have that move somewhere as an option. Never know if you'll see it.

    As to Grantholomew, they don't always pay attention to me either. Just keep it coming and they're bound to listen once. I thought the same way 'til Gallade's potw. At least someone will listen at one point.
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    So in the end, it's down to Scald or Hydro Pump for your STAB. Surf isn't as powerful as Hydro Pump but doesn't do anything else. Hydro Pump for pure power, Scald for longevity.

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  6. #81

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    It's not so much a case of people not listening, it's just that Scald isn't that great on Keldeo. It's a fast and powerful offensive Pokemon, and it honestly should be utilized as such. Scald is mostly a support option, and it suffers from a low base power. The burn rate is nice and all, but you have to ask if it's worth losing a significant amount of power in comparison to Hydro Pump. If you need a more reliable STAB option, you might as well go with Surf. It still has solid power and solves the accuracy and PP problems that Hydro Pump has. Not that Scald is a bad move for Keldeo, but it's definitely Other Options material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    It's not so much a case of people not listening, it's just that Scald isn't that great on Keldeo. It's a fast and powerful offensive Pokemon, and it honestly should be utilized as such. Scald is mostly a support option, and it suffers from a low base power. The burn rate is nice and all, but you have to ask if it's worth losing a significant amount of power in comparison to Hydro Pump. If you need a more reliable STAB option, you might as well go with Surf. It still has solid power and solves the accuracy and PP problems that Hydro Pump has. Not that Scald is a bad move for Keldeo, but it's definitely Other Options material.
    Scald is never an Offensive move. You are trying to tear **** to shreds in rain, so use Hydro Pump

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftGrovyle View Post
    I think you are missing the humorous part of it. It's a WATER move that can set things on FIRE! It's the new body slam, man. And that move, (body slam) we almost always mention. Snorlax, Politoed, Quasquire(sp, I know), and more. Check all of the fourth gen potws, about one-third have that move somewhere as an option. Never know if you'll see it.

    As to Grantholomew, they don't always pay attention to me either. Just keep it coming and they're bound to listen once. I thought the same way 'til Gallade's potw. At least someone will listen at one point.
    But............ Scald is for d-e-f-e-n-s-i-v-e stop theorymon.
    I play the game I use hydro pump on a defensive politoed, instead of scald.
    It beat SO many thing scald could only dream of beating what do you prefer a burned pokemon or a KOed pokemon?
    And burn isn't as good as paralysis on offensive pokemon paralysis not only ruin most pokemon even the slowest ones.

    +1 Hydro pump in the rain.. if you don't resist it is a KO..

    just for reference scald have 120 BP and hydro pump have 180 BP after STAB in the rain: scald 180 and hydro pump 270 90 more BP in the rain...that's A HUGE difference for "sometimes a burn"
    Last edited by Ilan; 6th July 2012 at 11:55 AM.


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    Keldeo; in my opinion, a cool Pokemon with much, much wasted potential. Yes a 129 Base Special Attack looks real good, especially paired with Base 108 Speed. His other Stats are decent, with 91/90/90 for defenses and bulk. Typewise, he has four weaknesses but 6 resistances. A fairly good tradeoff, especially if paired with a Tyranitar who is usually capable of dealing with 3 of those weaknesses by itself (especially Psychic). Movepool, as stated for Kingdra's entry in last generation's POTW, is the make-or-break point for most Pokemon, and Keldeo...I'm sorry, but you are the worst of the Muskedeer Pokemon, end of story. On his own (no TM or Move Tutor), Keldeo gets entirely Normal, Fighting, and Water type moves: not a problem in and of itself, but I have more fingers on one hand than he has learnable Special Attacks. As for boosting attacks, the only good ones he gets are Work Up and Calm Mind. Swords Dance, on something with a Base 72 Attack? Justified for it's Ability? I'm sorry, but Cobalion is better equipped than the one Pokemon guaranteed on most Brony's teams. Still, it can sweep or stall with what it's got. Hopefully the following movesets haven't already been suggested. (And no, I won't bother making up a pun for each set's name.)


    Choice
    Secret Sword
    Surf/Hydro Pump
    Hidden Power (Fire)/Hidden Power (Rock)/Hidden Power (Dark)
    Icy Wind
    Item: Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
    Nature: Modest/Timid

    Choice item sets; simple to make, easy to use. Secret Sword gets STAB, ruins Special Walls (with Super Effective damage on most, unlike Psyshock), good power and great Accuracy. Surf vs. Hydro Pump, pick based on which end of the reliable/powerful scale you're at. For example, I would personally chose Surf because it has MUCH better Accuracy and the PP has been tripled! (No, I couldn't resist that one.) Hidden Power...Okay, which Pokemon last generation had in it's entry something about having a crappy movepool if Hidden Power is mandatory? Anyways, it's here for coverage and filler. Fire is chosen due to the popularity of Ferrothorn and Scizor, Rock is an option if you can nail Volcarona before it can Quiver Dance, Dark for perfect coverage with Secret Sword. Otherwise pick your type based on what you need to hit. Icy Wind because Keldeo can't learn Ice Beam. The Speed reduction is a nice benefit, but yeah, Keldeo's movepool is THAT dire. EVs...do I have to say it? 4/252/252.


    Calm Mind
    Calm Mind
    Secret Sword
    Surf/Scald
    Hidden Power/Icy Wind/Substitute
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers/Wisdom Glasses
    Nature: Modest/Timid

    Calm Mind to boost your Special Attack (and Special Defense). Nasty Plot would have been preferable but one has to make due with what one has. Secret Sword and Surf have been described in enough detail by now. Hydro Pump is not mentioned because the horrible Accuracy and nonexistent amount of PP just screams, "come counter me Spiritomb I can't touch you at all!" Which, I need to say it, will make your boosts worthless if you do run into a half-decently defensive Spiritomb. The final moveslot, however, will determine if you are an offensive tank or an arguably better Raikou. Hidden Power and Icy Wind have already been talked about in the previous set, but Substitute blocks incoming Status' and allows you at least another turn to Calm Mind. After a few boosts, few Special Attacks should be doing significant damage to your Substitutes, while you sweep with boosted Secret Sword and Surfs. If used, run Scald in place of Surf so you can sorta tank hits from both ends of the spectrum (when the Burn kicks in, that is). Items need little explanation: Life Orb if pure offensive, Leftovers with the Substitute, Wisdom Glasses is the best compromise between bulk and power you can find. As for EVs...I'll leave that for someone who knows how they work better than I do. The 252/252 spread is good if you don't run Substitute but if you run it, well, Raikou's 124 HP / 116 SAtk / 52 SDef / 216 Spd spread is probably the best for it. If I'm wrong, go ahead and correct me.


    PARTNERS:
    As stated earlier, Tyranitar pairs up very well defensively with Keldeo. The dinosaur is often equipped with one or more attacks that KO what the colt is weak against while the colt hits most Fighting types at their typically weaker Special Defense. And as others before me have said, Keldeo works great on Rain teams.
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    Keldeo , the "Apprentice" of the 3 musketeers.
    To start , Keldeo has Good Speed , Sp. Attack , Sp. Defense and defense but it really lacks attack , which could be awesome for the move Sacred Sword.
    Keldeo isn´t released yet , you can get it just through hacking , How much we need to wait!?.
    As i said before , keldeo has good stats but bad attack , so let´s focus on the movements.

    Keldeo :
    Modest Nature (+Sp. attack , - Attack)

    Moves:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Calm Mind
    -Secret Sword
    -Focus Blast

    Held Item : Wide Lens (Accuracy is increased by 10%)

    -Hydro pump is a obligatory attack for a water type , Because it got a huge sp.attack power , necessary when you´re dealing with Pokémon that got huge Defense or Sp. Defense and are Rock , Ground or Fire types.

    -Calm mind gives you a high boost with your Special and you can deal with grass , electric and physic types or moves.

    -Secret Sword is a good move , you don´t run risk nothing when you use it and the good thing is.....It is a special attack!

    -Focus Blast has low accuracy but great sp. attack , wide lens is a great choice , you will have less chances of failing this huge attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BNMH View Post
    Keldeo , the "Apprentice" of the 3 musketeers.
    To start , Keldeo has Good Speed , Sp. Attack , Sp. Defense and defense but it really lacks attack , which could be awesome for the move Sacred Sword.
    Keldeo isn´t released yet , you can get it just through hacking , How much we need to wait!?.
    As i said before , keldeo has good stats but bad attack , so let´s focus on the movements.

    Keldeo :
    Modest Nature (+Sp. attack , - Attack)

    Moves:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Calm Mind
    -Secret Sword
    -Focus Blast

    Held Item : Wide Lens (Accuracy is increased by 10%)

    -Hydro pump is a obligatory attack for a water type , Because it got a huge sp.attack power , necessary when you´re dealing with Pokémon that got huge Defense or Sp. Defense and are Rock , Ground or Fire types.

    -Calm mind gives you a high boost with your Special and you can deal with grass , electric and physic types or moves.

    -Secret Sword is a good move , you don´t run risk nothing when you use it and the good thing is.....It is a special attack!

    -Focus Blast has low accuracy but great sp. attack , wide lens is a great choice , you will have less chances of failing this huge attack.
    Don't use Focus Blast and Secret Sword on the same set. In fact, Focus Blast should never be used, since Keldeo has its own almost-Aura Sphere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grantholomew View Post
    Don't use Focus Blast and Secret Sword on the same set. In fact, Focus Blast should never be used, since Keldeo has its own almost-Aura Sphere.
    Yep. Focus Blast doesn't really hit anything that Secret Sword doesn't. It just does it less reliably.

    It's generally best to go for a hidden power type of some sort, and if you're unable to breed those, substitute is a great supportive move that also prevents revenge killing, and is especially helpful now that ditto is running around.

    Timid is usually the better nature as well, since with modest, it will be outrun more then it will fail to KO with timid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiyoshi View Post
    Keldeo; in my opinion, a cool Pokemon with much, much wasted potential. Yes a 129 Base Special Attack looks real good, especially paired with Base 108 Speed. His other Stats are decent, with 91/90/90 for defenses and bulk. Typewise, he has four weaknesses but 6 resistances. A fairly good tradeoff, especially if paired with a Tyranitar who is usually capable of dealing with 3 of those weaknesses by itself (especially Psychic). Movepool, as stated for Kingdra's entry in last generation's POTW, is the make-or-break point for most Pokemon, and Keldeo...I'm sorry, but you are the worst of the Muskedeer Pokemon, end of story. On his own (no TM or Move Tutor), Keldeo gets entirely Normal, Fighting, and Water type moves: not a problem in and of itself, but I have more fingers on one hand than he has learnable Special Attacks. As for boosting attacks, the only good ones he gets are Work Up and Calm Mind. Swords Dance, on something with a Base 72 Attack? Justified for it's Ability? I'm sorry, but Cobalion is better equipped than the one Pokemon guaranteed on most Brony's teams. Still, it can sweep or stall with what it's got. Hopefully the following movesets haven't already been suggested. (And no, I won't bother making up a pun for each set's name.)


    Choice
    Secret Sword
    Surf/Hydro Pump
    Hidden Power (Fire)/Hidden Power (Rock)/Hidden Power (Dark)
    Icy Wind
    Item: Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
    Nature: Modest/Timid

    Choice item sets; simple to make, easy to use. Secret Sword gets STAB, ruins Special Walls (with Super Effective damage on most, unlike Psyshock), good power and great Accuracy. Surf vs. Hydro Pump, pick based on which end of the reliable/powerful scale you're at. For example, I would personally chose Surf because it has MUCH better Accuracy and the PP has been tripled! (No, I couldn't resist that one.) Hidden Power...Okay, which Pokemon last generation had in it's entry something about having a crappy movepool if Hidden Power is mandatory? Anyways, it's here for coverage and filler. Fire is chosen due to the popularity of Ferrothorn and Scizor, Rock is an option if you can nail Volcarona before it can Quiver Dance, Dark for perfect coverage with Secret Sword. Otherwise pick your type based on what you need to hit. Icy Wind because Keldeo can't learn Ice Beam. The Speed reduction is a nice benefit, but yeah, Keldeo's movepool is THAT dire. EVs...do I have to say it? 4/252/252.


    Calm Mind
    Calm Mind
    Secret Sword
    Surf/Scald
    Hidden Power/Icy Wind/Substitute
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers/Wisdom Glasses
    Nature: Modest/Timid

    Calm Mind to boost your Special Attack (and Special Defense). Nasty Plot would have been preferable but one has to make due with what one has. Secret Sword and Surf have been described in enough detail by now. Hydro Pump is not mentioned because the horrible Accuracy and nonexistent amount of PP just screams, "come counter me Spiritomb I can't touch you at all!" Which, I need to say it, will make your boosts worthless if you do run into a half-decently defensive Spiritomb. The final moveslot, however, will determine if you are an offensive tank or an arguably better Raikou. Hidden Power and Icy Wind have already been talked about in the previous set, but Substitute blocks incoming Status' and allows you at least another turn to Calm Mind. After a few boosts, few Special Attacks should be doing significant damage to your Substitutes, while you sweep with boosted Secret Sword and Surfs. If used, run Scald in place of Surf so you can sorta tank hits from both ends of the spectrum (when the Burn kicks in, that is). Items need little explanation: Life Orb if pure offensive, Leftovers with the Substitute, Wisdom Glasses is the best compromise between bulk and power you can find. As for EVs...I'll leave that for someone who knows how they work better than I do. The 252/252 spread is good if you don't run Substitute but if you run it, well, Raikou's 124 HP / 116 SAtk / 52 SDef / 216 Spd spread is probably the best for it. If I'm wrong, go ahead and correct me.


    PARTNERS:
    As stated earlier, Tyranitar pairs up very well defensively with Keldeo. The dinosaur is often equipped with one or more attacks that KO what the colt is weak against while the colt hits most Fighting types at their typically weaker Special Defense. And as others before me have said, Keldeo works great on Rain teams.
    Never Surf or Scald when you can use Hydro Pump. Like I said in my previous post, Keldeo is meant to tear teams to shreds in Rain, and it doesn't do much tearing with Scald or Surf. Like stated earlier, 270 BP is much better than 180 BP on Scald or even 213.75 BP. Also, the only partner Keldeo should ever have is Politoed

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraWolf View Post
    Also, the only partner Keldeo should ever have is Politoed
    Even with that, both need desperate support against Jellicent, who walls them both. Thundurus-T looks to be a good partner with Toed and Keldeo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    Even with that, both need desperate support against Jellicent, who walls them both. Thundurus-T looks to be a good partner with Toed and Keldeo.
    Which is why some toeds run HP Grass and some Keldeo's run HP Ghost

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraWolf View Post
    Which is why some toeds run HP Grass and some Keldeo's run HP Ghost
    Yes, but Hp ghost can't 2KO Jellicent with a Modest nature and Choice Specs unless rocks are up and HP grass coming from something that has 90 in sp attack is weaker than something hitting with a 129 sp att stat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    Yes, but Hp ghost can't 2KO Jellicent with a Modest nature and Choice Specs unless rocks are up and HP grass coming from something that has 90 in sp attack is weaker than something hitting with a 129 sp att stat
    HP Ghost 2HKOs at +2 which it should be anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraWolf View Post
    HP Ghost 2HKOs at +2 which it should be anyway
    Well at least this thing isn't terribly walled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    Well at least this thing isn't terribly walled.
    If you don't use the terribly worse Choice set of Keldeo as opposed to CM Keldeo

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraWolf View Post
    If you don't use the terribly worse Choice set of Keldeo as opposed to CM Keldeo
    Either way, Hydro Pump will hit disgustingly hard at anything not Water Absorb Jellicent or some other things I might have missed.

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    Special Moveset
    Item: Life Orb/Wise Specs/Water Gem/Fighting Gem
    Modest w/ 252 SP. Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Hydro Pump/Scald
    Focus Blast/Secret Sword
    Calm Mind
    HP [Fire/Dark/Ghost/Flying/Rock]/Hail

    Other Move Ideas
    Work Up
    Swords Dance
    Superpower with Fighting Gem/White Herb
    Close Combat with Fighting Gem
    Aerial Ace/Poison Jab/Bounce against Grass-types
    X-Scissor against Psychic and Grass-Types
    Stone Edge against Flying-Types
    Endeavor

    Partners
    Beat Up-users
    Rain Dance-users

    Countering
    Gallade, Gyarados, and Dragonite seem to have high Attack and Sp Defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraWolf View Post
    Never Surf or Scald when you can use Hydro Pump. Like I said in my previous post, Keldeo is meant to tear teams to shreds in Rain, and it doesn't do much tearing with Scald or Surf. Like stated earlier, 270 BP is much better than 180 BP on Scald or even 213.75 BP. Also, the only partner Keldeo should ever have is Politoed

    Maybe if you had read my moveset a bit more carefully, you will see that Scald was chosen for Defensive purposes. As I said earlier, and clearly need to repeat, Scald was only listed as an option if Substitute is used on the Calm Mind set, and so that the Burn can make Keldeo sorta wall Physical Attacks alongside Special Attacks.

    As for Surf vs Hydro Pump, what good is all that extra power going to do if it's PP drained by something with Pressure? Take any Hydro Pump equipped Keldeo against 1 well trained, perfectly EV'd Spiritomb with it's pick of Protect, Calm Mind (combined with Drought Ninetales for maximum effect), Brightpowder, and/or Rest/Sleep Talk and that Hydro Pump is rendered useless. (So is Stone Edge and Fire Blast but Keldeo can't learn either of those.) If Hydro Pump had better Accuracy, I'd be a bit more open to using it, but anything less than 90% Accuracy is never worth the aggravation. I will always go with slightly less power with perfect Accuracy over unreliable power moves that miss right when you need them, and always run out of PP in the middle of a key fight.

    Tyranitar was not mentioned as a partner for Weather benefits, if you had read that carefully. I never said Tyranitar was an ideal Weather partner, but it's a solid Defensive partner. So there's absolutely no room for error what I mean, I'll list how & why I chose Tyranitar as a potential teammate, going in detail over the Defensive benefits it provides Keldeo.
    Electric: Keldeo's alphabetical first weakness. The majority of them are weak to Earthquake and most Tyranitar carry it as a matter of fact.
    Grass: This one is a bit trickier due to being a common weakness to both Keldeo and Tyranitar, but unlike the horse, Tyranitar often carry something that's Super Effective against Grass types, be it Ice Beam or Flamethrower. Keldeo, on the other hand, must rely on Hidden Power (or Icy Wind) if it wants an Attack of that type.
    Flying: Due to the prominence of Bug and Fighting type Pokemon, Flying type Attacks are going to enjoy a surge of usage, and next gen is probably going to have many good Flying types to balance out the sheer number of good Bug and Fighting type Pokemon, Keldeo among the latter, this generation brought us. Tyranitar has little to no trouble dealing with Flying types on it's own. Either a STAB Stone Edge/Rock Slide or the aforementioned Ice Beam from Tyranitar and most Flying types are insta-KO'd, leaving them unable to stop Keldeo from sweeping.
    Psychic: If there's one thing Tyranitar does better than change Weather, it's destroy Psychic types. Crunch, Pursuit, Dark Pulse, STAB on all the above, strong Offensive stats, and immune to their STAB attacks, few Pokemon can handle Psychics like Tyranitar can. If a Psychic type is sent out to handle Keldeo, the horse should be hiding behind a Tyranitar.
    As you can see, Tyranitar on it's own is a match for/more than for most of what can threaten Keldeo. Therefore, why I mentioned it as a potential partner. (Of course, this may be a time where it's less useful Ability would be preferred, since anyone can see that Sand is not ideal with Keldeo.)
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    ♥I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior. If you do too and aren't scared to admit it, then copy and paste this in your signature.♥

    I don't calculate stat values, I don't use cheating devices, I don't breed my way to perfection, and I don't care about natures. I catch my Pokemon the way they are, and treat them like individuals instead of brainless drones. If you use this philosophy, copy & paste this into your signature. (Started by Tyranitar, "I don't use "uber" Pokemon," edited out by me because I do use "uber" Pokemon on occasion.)

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    Here is another hopefully good pun:

    This POTW is just full of Pony Bologna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    Here is another hopefully good pun:

    This POTW is just full of Pony Bologna.
    What about My Little Sweeper or Rainbow Splash?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    What about My Little Sweeper or Rainbow Splash?
    Um no, like BH said, she would do everything to not use a My little Pony joke, but those are good.

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