Unpopular opinions about Pokemon manga

[Evilchibi_pichu]

(Thank goodness none of this crap is actually canon. Marrying, paying taxes at 10? What kind of sick world is this place?

A fictional universe that isn't ours...?

I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but the whole "a full adult in the eyes of the law at the age of ten" is stupid. The only universe where it works is in Mass Effect with the Salarian race. his makes sense for the Salarians. For humans, even in a whole different universe like Pokemon, this would not make sense. We live to 80 on average, not 40. We age twice as long as Mass Effect's Salarians.

It does make some sense as all universes play by different rules. Pokemon's "humans" != Real Life's humans. Different environments results in different biology and Pokemon's environment most likely calls for more maturing of the brain quicker to survive with creatures with super-like powers and superhuman-like strength.

And if you consider the anime's thought of the pokemon being more intelligent than the humans, then it makes even more sense. Pokemon's humans' brains might be more beefier than ours and can handle "adult" things at a lower age to insure survival (even if they're lower in intelligence). We don't know anything about the physiology or the society of the humanoid species in Pokemon's universe, so we can't say it doesn't make sense just because it doesn't fit our way. Lower chances of survival also helps make sense of lower age of marriage.

Just because they look, talk, and act like us doesn't mean they are us. Age is relative, ours only hold on basis with our species; you can't use our measurement of "adulthood" to other universes (especially when it barely works for us anyways). Physical age hold not that much influence on maturity levels/brain age.

The only one I've seen is in Lilycove, are human lives less important than Pokemon there?

This is a great question. It seems they are on equal ground; respecting the pokemon might be an important aspect of the humans' culture. Considering how pokemon aren't totally hunted by most of the humans and how they treat the pokemon as more like partners rather than pets. Maybe the humans have better healing abilities than pokemon do?

[Honeyichigo]

Another thing to take note for. Almost every city has a Pokemon center, but what about hospitals? The only one I've seen is in Lilycove, are human lives less important than Pokemon there? Also when Red fought against Bruno in the yellow arc he received Hitmonlee's kick right in his ribs and he got away with pout a broken rib. Are their bones made if steel or something? I'm sure that Hitmonlee's kicks aren't soft. So how come Red got away with only a bruise?

Actually, how often have we seen Pokemon Centers being used in Special? I can't actually think of any instances off the top of my head. If Pokemon are usually healed off-screen, the same might just apply to humans- they go to hospitals during a scene break, and it isn't shown because it's not that interesting.

That, and most shonen action series have their characters take ridiculous amounts of damage and be totally okay just to show how awesome they are. It might be less that Poke-humans are durable and more that one ones we're following are being glorified. :P

[Trutown]

It does make some sense as all universes play by different rules. Pokemon's "humans" != Real Life's humans. Different environments results in different biology and Pokemon's environment most likely calls for more maturing of the brain quicker to survive with creatures with super-like powers and superhuman-like strength.

And if you consider the anime's thought of the pokemon being more intelligent than the humans, then it makes even more sense. Pokemon's humans' brains might be more beefier than ours and can handle "adult" things at a lower age to insure survival (even if they're lower in intelligence). We don't know anything about the physiology or the society of the humanoid species in Pokemon's universe, so we can't say it doesn't make sense just because it doesn't fit our way. Lower chances of survival also helps make sense of lower age of marriage.

Just because they look, talk, and act like us doesn't mean they are us. Age is relative, ours only hold on basis with our species; you can't use our measurement of "adulthood" to other universes (especially when it barely works for us anyways). Physical age hold not that much influence on maturity levels/brain age.

Except that we are neither shown nor told that at all. Therefore, we have to assume that they are just like us.

[matt0044]

Except that we are neither shown nor told that at all. Therefore, we have to assume that they are just like us.

Or we can assume they aren't like Evilchibi_pichu says because we aren't told this but we are shown how they aren't like us.

[Trutown]

Or we can assume they aren't like Evilchibi_pichu says because we aren't told this but we are shown how they aren't like us.

When I say that they are like us, I mean physically. They are physically just like us. We never see how they are different in their physiology from us and we are never told how they are physically different either. Therefore, we must assume that they have the same physiology as we do.

[Evilchibi_pichu]

^ It's basically like matt0044 says. Physically or mentally, even if we're not told just we shouldn't assume they are especially when the story gives an example on how they aren't. The reason we shouldn't is that they live in their own reality so the story, as long as it makes sense within that world/universe, can be vague to avoid explaining some of the science (unless it's Science Fiction) and do things that wouldn't work in our reality. When reading fiction, our reality doesn't apply unless the story wants to us know there's a basis in our reality. They look like us just so we can imagine being like them, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are like us.

Why ruin your own suspension of disbelief by assuming? It makes just as much sense to consider them a different version of human.

[Trutown]

^ It's basically like matt0044 says. Physically or mentally, even if we're not told just we shouldn't assume they are especially when the story gives an example on how they aren't. The reason we shouldn't is that they live in their own reality so the story, as long as it makes sense within that world/universe, can be vague to avoid explaining some of the science (unless it's Science Fiction) and do things that wouldn't work in our reality. When reading fiction, our reality doesn't apply unless the story wants to us know there's a basis in our reality. They look like us just so we can imagine being like them, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are like us.

Why ruin your own suspension of disbelief by assuming? It makes just as much sense to consider them a different version of human.

Where is this shown to us? What event can you name that cannot be ascribed to poor writing? Show, don't tell.

Example: Yellow surfing on lava. That is poor writing, not showing us how they are different. In no universe can a living creature surf on lava with a board constructed entirely out of ice unless "lava" is just another name for water.

As for suspension of disbelief:

1) Genre is not an argument.

2) Fiction of any sort has to be shown/told properly.

Suspension of disbelief is based on how well the content and context of the story is told to allow us to believe in the fiction. The way humans are presented to us in the comics does not suggest that humans in that universe are different from us.

[Evilchibi_pichu]

Where is this shown to us? What event can you name that cannot be ascribed to poor writing? Show, don't tell.

Example: Yellow surfing on lava. That is poor writing, not showing us how they are different. In no universe can a living creature surf on lava with a board constructed entirely out of ice unless "lava" is just another name for water.

As for suspension of disbelief:

1) Genre is not an argument.

2) Fiction of any sort has to be shown/told properly.

Suspension of disbelief is based on how well the content and context of the story is told to allow us to believe in the fiction. The way humans are presented to us in the comics does not suggest that humans in that universe are different from us.

I was talking about Shudo's novels not PokeSpe. In the novels, the humans being adults at age 10 is enough reason to believe they aren't us. Plus, I didn't state something that could of been shown, I was stating mostly logic and science so your questions are out of place.

We aren't given a conclusion either way in PokeSpe as the writing shows both. We don't know what the author wants.

Suspension of disbelief isn't just reliant on the story, it's also reliant on the reader's mindset, by the way. What everyone believes can affect their suspension.

The way PokeSpe's humans are presented as people; people that let their kids travel with dangerous monsters around and save the world where they can get blown up at any time. Let's not forget that some can have healing powers, can control legendaries, and have face-offs with the mafia and live. Oh, let's not forget being able to surviving a high fall to the ground. Possibly more I'm forgetting.

Certainly, there are no instances where the story shows how not like us they are.

Your whole argument is pointless as you trying to back up and argue an assumption. An assumption is a fallacious argument. If poor writing doesn't show they are different, then the same goes for showing they are the same. The writing is inconsistent.

[Trutown]

I was talking about Shudo's novels not PokeSpe. In the novels, the humans being adults at age 10 is enough reason to believe they aren't us. Plus, I didn't state something that could of been shown, I was stating mostly logic and science so your questions are out of place.

In fiction we must be shown these things, not told. If we are just told and never shown then we have no true reason to believe it. If we are shown then we have seen it in effect and can therefore believe it. While it is logical to assume "it is in a different universe so it is theoretically possible for these things to happen" it means nothing if never shown.

Show, don't tell.

We aren't given a conclusion either way in PokeSpe as the writing shows both. We don't know what the author wants.

Exactly. We don't know. He should do more to help us in that regard.

Suspension of disbelief isn't just reliant on the story, it's also reliant on the reader's mindset, by the way. What everyone believes can affect their suspension.

When Samuel Taylor Coleridge coined the phrase "suspension of disbelief" in 1817, he claimed that the burden of suspension is on the writer and not the reader. It is the job of the writer to create the suspension of disbelief through human interest and semblance of truth.

The way PokeSpe's humans are presented as people; people that let their kids travel with dangerous monsters around and save the world where they can get blown up at any time. Let's not forget that some can have healing powers, can control legendaries, and have face-offs with the mafia and live. Oh, let's not forget being able to surviving a high fall to the ground. Possibly more I'm forgetting.

Aside from surviving long falls to the ground, that list was good. Notice however, that all of those are reliant on the author showing those things to us. That being said, some of the points you made are subject to scrutiny.

Sapphire is the only person that I recall that got a send off for her Gym battle journey from her family, and it was after she had already made her bet with Ruby (who had run away from home). Platina was sent on a fetch quest, not to battle monsters. Diamond and Pearl thought they were going on a tour. The rest just kind of stumbled into their adventures. With this evidence we can conclude that a personal adventure that is supported by society at large is not a common thing.

The origin of the healing powers of the Viridian forest are never explained. That does not effect that the powers are shown effectively enough to believe them, so I will give that one to you.

The controlling of legendaries is done through Pokeballs and the Viridian powers. That is something that is adequately explained and demonstrated. I don't see how that supports your point on how the humans are different if it is done by non-human means.

Face offs with the mafia fall under something that they just sort of fall into. They just happen to be where the criminals are and choose to do the right thing (you know, since the police aren't going to do anything about it anytime soon if round 99 is to be believed).

As for surviving long falls to the ground, that is based on the art's depth and distance perception. However, Pokespe has had some difficulty with distance perception before, so if those falls are long or short are questionable.

Your whole argument is pointless as you trying to back up and argue an assumption. An assumption is a fallacious argument. If poor writing doesn't show they are different, then the same goes for showing they are the same. The writing is inconsistent.

I don't really understand what kind of point you are trying to make here. Are you saying that my argument is pointless because it is like trying to argue a assumption, or are you saying that I am arguing an assumption? I don't believe that I am arguing an assumption, if anything, I am arguing an observation.

What does "If poor writing doesn't show they are different, then the same goes for showing they are the same" even mean?

I know the writing is inconsistent. It is up to the writer to fix that.

[lollygag]

I kinda object to the idea of having Gym Leaders and Elite Four members as villains. I know it adds drama to the plot, but I still didn't like how half of Kanto's Gym Leaders were evil. I'm glad they phased out the "evil Gym Leader" idea after Johto.

Come to think of it, now that I'm used to Pryce in HGSS, I kinda find his appearance and characterization in the manga to be a little jarring. I'm used to the tall, healthy Pryce who is cold but a nice person, as opposed to the short, wheelchair-bound Pryce who is a villain. I do remember the old Pryce before the remakes came out, but I didn't pay much attention to him until HGSS.

I just think some of the older volumes of the manga, while they have good plots, haven't aged well considering the retcons to the Pokemon franchise. Don't get me wrong, the manga IS good, but some of it might look a little strange to younger Pokemon fans.

[Dreamingflower]

Aside from surviving long falls to the ground, that list was good. Notice however, that all of those are reliant on the author showing those things to us. That being said, some of the points you made are subject to scrutiny.

We've also seen many times trainers taking straight hits from a Pokemon attack, while normally a human wouldn't be able to survive such hits and they die or end up wounded heavily. The character don't seem to end up in such conditions they seem to shrug it off as if they can take ten of those hits.

Sapphire is the only person that I recall that got a send off for her Gym battle journey from her family, and it was after she had already made her bet with Ruby (who had run away from home). Platina was sent on a fetch quest, not to battle monsters. Diamond and Pearl thought they were going on a tour. The rest just kind of stumbled into their adventures. With this evidence we can conclude that a personal adventure that is supported by society at large is not a common thing.

Didn't Prof Oak send his grandson on a journey to fill the Pokedex? When youngster Joey was about to tell Gold's mom that Gold decided to travel. She just said he'd come back when he wants to. Pearl dad kinda abandoned Pearl and went on a journey on his own, without keeping any contact with his son. When they meet again Palmer acts as if nothing happened. Black's off-screen parent's don't seem to mind either that their son wants to go on a journey. It seems that adults tend to think it's normal that their kids travel at young age.
The origin of the healing powers of the Viridian forest are never explained. That does not effect that the powers are shown effectively enough to believe them, so I will give that one to you.

The controlling of legendaries is done through Pokeballs and the Viridian powers. That is something that is adequately explained and demonstrated. I don't see how that supports your point on how the humans are different if it is done by non-human means.

How can you explain Norman and Steven's death at the RS arc? I guess controlling a legendary isn't that easy, unless they accept the trainer as their master.

Face offs with the mafia fall under something that they just sort of fall into. They just happen to be where the criminals are and choose to do the right thing (you know, since the police aren't going to do anything about it anytime soon if round 99 is to be believed).

So you assume that it's also normal in real life if kids accidentally end up being involved with the mafia? and stopping them is completely normal for a kid? Normally kids would cry in fear, but the Pokedex owners don't seem to be that troubled in stopping them.

As for surviving long falls to the ground, that is based on the art's depth and distance perception. However, Pokespe has had some difficulty with distance perception before, so if those falls are long or short are questionable.

Well I'd assume that they're not falling from tiny hills. Red battled Bruno at mountain moon and he had to endure more than falling off cliffs. Ruby had an harsh battle with his dad and that wasn't all about yelling at Ruby and grounding him, wasn't it?

[Platinum fan.]

Well now that it's over I can say I was overall disappointed with the HGSS chapter. It feels somewhat pointless with how they explained certain things like with the Creation trio. I may very well like the Emerald chapter over it. I just think a better story could have been made by it. It almost feels somewhat skippable if you didn't think that much on Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina's role in DPPt since what happened in HGSS isn't even mentioned in Platinum. That's just my opinion though.

[matt0044]

Well now that it's over I can say I was overall disappointed with the HGSS chapter.

That's not exactly an unpopular opinion...

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

The controlling of legendaries is done through Pokeballs and the Viridian powers. That is something that is adequately explained and demonstrated. I don't see how that supports your point on how the humans are different if it is done by non-human means.

How about Shaymin then? It seemed to just go along with Marley because it wanted to, and then over to Cyrus because it sensed his gratitude. It seemed like it listened to anybody who was sufficiently grateful.

[Dreamingflower]

How about Shaymin then? It seemed to just go along with Marley because it wanted to, and then over to Cyrus because it sensed his gratitude. It seemed like it listened to anybody who was sufficiently grateful.

It agreed to go with Marley because it wanted to fight against Giratina and Cyrus was kinda messed up at the end of the DP arc so for him to feel gratitude towards something, really is... something.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Well yeah, but my point was that it was done without pokeballs or Viridian powers.

[Trutown]

Well yeah, but my point was that it was done without pokeballs or Viridian powers.

Shaymin was acting out of its own freewill. No one was really "controlling" it. According to the dictionary, control is "to exercise authoritative or dominating influence over" something. Shaymin was not controlled.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

It was still influence.

[Platinum fan.]

That's not exactly an unpopular opinion...

Oh really? I thought it would be somewhat unpopular to say that.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

It seems most people hated the HGSS arc.

Some more from me
-Heroes of Fire and Thunder is basically a single-volume DPA
-Hazel needs to lay off Almond because she's a borderline stalker
-Team Rocket in PokeWake is less compitent and/or professional than Jessie and James at their worst
-Ono is the best pokemanga artist...when he remembers proportions. Himeno and Ihara are also among the top.
-VizKids is NOT a bad place for Special because it's less violent than the Zelda comics in the same line and those come out fine.
-The habit the movie mangas have of killing off the bad guys (who all live in their films) is ridiculous and should stop